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Zaxxon
Feb 14, 2004

Wir Tanzen Mekanik

alexandriao posted:

Anyone have any articles on like, synthesizer theory or explanation or something? I didn't find anything worth reading ;-;

if you wanna go pretty deep you can read sound on sound magazines "synth secrets" articles.

https://www.soundonsound.com/series/synth-secrets?solrsort=ds_created%20asc&f%5B0%5D=im_field_subject%3A8106

there is a LOT of stuff in there, some great, some kinda meh. One nice thing is that it starts by trying to get everyone thinking about the sounds they hear in synth friendly terms before talking too much about poo poo like "modulating the cutoff."

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LuckySevens
Feb 16, 2004

fear not failure, fear only the limitations of our dreams



Penisface posted:


the sonic pi stuff sounds good but if you're already using a laptop/computer to live-code, why do it on the pi?

you're making a lot of sense here, but it'd still be cool to have a standalone device you can take with whatever music kit you have.

i'll see if anyone has any cool mods, maybe a light effect sync :rodtronics:

alexandriao
Jul 20, 2019

"What're quantum mechanics?"
"I don't know. People who repair quantums, I suppose."


kaboofa posted:

Andrew Huang has a good 20ish minute video on modular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWslSTTkiFU



Dang, thanks for that video. It's the same stuff I was reading last night but I feel like it stuck a little bit better

I'll check out the rest of the stuff when I'm not cooking bacon :)

pointsofdata posted:

This guy's videos are a good intro to vcv rack https://youtu.be/pDmSy3PukTQ

Zaxxon posted:

if you wanna go pretty deep you can read sound on sound magazines "synth secrets" articles.

Ahhh thank you all :) Looks like my to-do list just got a bunch added to it :)

-

So one system I remembered about is called Pure Data, I didn't do much with it but it has a really interesting presentation and workflow, there's two good videos on it here:

https://youtu.be/FkmMzqohsDo

E: now I remember why I dislike VCV Rack, half the dials aren't labelled so I have zero idea what I'm doing :v:

alexandriao fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Mar 9, 2020

a neurotic ai
Mar 22, 2012


I've been using FL for the last 7-8 years and I get periodic existential anxiety that everybody else I know who makes oontz oontz music uses ableton.

Then I remember I've got harmor and they don't

Zaxxon
Feb 14, 2004

Wir Tanzen Mekanik

alexandriao posted:

Dang, thanks for that video. It's the same stuff I was reading last night but I feel like it stuck a little bit better

I'll check out the rest of the stuff when I'm not cooking bacon :)



Ahhh thank you all :) Looks like my to-do list just got a bunch added to it :)

-

So one system I remembered about is called Pure Data, I didn't do much with it but it has a really interesting presentation and workflow, there's two good videos on it here:

https://youtu.be/FkmMzqohsDo

E: now I remember why I dislike VCV Rack, half the dials aren't labelled so I have zero idea what I'm doing :v:

PD is pretty great. I used to mess with it a lot. It gets a lil rough when your patch starts getting big and complicated. You might also like supercollider, which has a lot of similar functionality but works more like a regular programming language. In fact, as far as I can tell this sonic-pi thing people are talking about here is just ruby talking to supercollider server.

kaboofa
Sep 13, 2004
Kaboofa

alexandriao posted:

Dang, thanks for that video. It's the same stuff I was reading last night but I feel like it stuck a little bit better

You're welcome! I love nerding out about this stuff.


alexandriao posted:

So one system I remembered about is called Pure Data, I didn't do much with it but it has a really interesting presentation and workflow, there's two good videos on it here:

https://youtu.be/FkmMzqohsDo

E: now I remember why I dislike VCV Rack, half the dials aren't labelled so I have zero idea what I'm doing :v:

If Rack is Lego bricks, PD is the tools you need to make plastic injection molds.


a neurotic ai posted:

I've been using FL for the last 7-8 years and I get periodic existential anxiety that everybody else I know who makes oontz oontz music uses ableton.

Then I remember I've got harmor and they don't

Don't get anxiety over toaster brands! They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

While Live is catching up, I think FL Studio still has a better workflow for automating parameters.

Zaxxon posted:

You might also like supercollider, which has a lot of similar functionality but works more like a regular programming language

Yesssssssss. You can use good ole diff to compare different versions of a supercollider patch. Good luck trying to do that in PD or Max/MSP

Zaxxon
Feb 14, 2004

Wir Tanzen Mekanik

kaboofa posted:

Yesssssssss. You can use good ole diff to compare different versions of a supercollider patch. Good luck trying to do that in PD or Max/MSP

I mean even just reading a supercollider file makes more sense than a complicated Max or PD patch. I made a sample slicer in Max/MSP a long time ago and it worked real good but it was just an incomprehensible pile of crossing lines after a point, and that was with me trying to make everything sub patches and all that poo poo.

kaboofa
Sep 13, 2004
Kaboofa

Zaxxon posted:

I mean even just reading a supercollider file makes more sense than a complicated Max or PD patch. I made a sample slicer in Max/MSP a long time ago and it worked real good but it was just an incomprehensible pile of crossing lines after a point, and that was with me trying to make everything sub patches and all that poo poo.

I look at Max/MSP/Gen like duct-tape for Ableton Live. Don't really use it, but boy am I glad it's there when I need it.


toiletbrush posted:

I ordered an audio interface a few weeks ago (ExpertSleepers ES-9) so I can finally plug my eurorack monstrosity into my Mac in a somewhat sensible fashion but it's still not arrived, and I've not touched my modular since because it feels wrong somehow

On the other hand my AE modular kit finally arrived. I've only had about an hour to play with it but managed to do this fun little track...it's all the AE, no external fx or anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5OLoBr-2nw

Whoa, that's rad. Are you doing it DIY style?
I've been eyeing the ES-9, but ended up with a Zoom instead. Let us know how it goes!

My current setup is this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1126967
Plus a Behringer Neutron
Plus a Befaco I4 and an Endorphin.es Milky Way (WHICH BOTH GOT DELIVERED TODAY!!! WOO!!)



e: yikes. thinking about how much Ii've spent on music stuff kinda bums me out, but then i remember how much fun i've had jamming

kaboofa fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 9, 2020

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





mine is a scarlett 8i6

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



LuckySevens posted:

you're making a lot of sense here, but it'd still be cool to have a standalone device you can take with whatever music kit you have.

i'll see if anyone has any cool mods, maybe a light effect sync :rodtronics:

iíve day dreamt of this. for a while I had this idea of being a one man band with looping pedals n poo poo and running my own lighting

it would actually be prettt cool to have a wee device that could accept midi and route different midi channels to different lights or modes or whatever 🤷‍♂️ sounds like fun

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



a neurotic ai posted:

I've been using FL for the last 7-8 years and I get periodic existential anxiety that everybody else I know who makes oontz oontz music uses ableton.

Then I remember I've got harmor and they don't

the workflow difference between the two leads to different music I reckon, and why loving around with both has its own benefits

kaboofa
Sep 13, 2004
Kaboofa

Eurorack people: My life was changed today. Get some knurlies. Not having to grab a screwdriver (even though it's right there on the mug on the shelf) is shockingly convenient, specially if you still shuffle modules around.

a neurotic ai
Mar 22, 2012


echinopsis posted:

the workflow difference between the two leads to different music I reckon, and why loving around with both has its own benefits

the main takeaway Iíve gathered is that ableton doesnít use FLs infuriatingly irritating window management system, itís a lot easier to use in one view and lends itself to laptops better.

...but itís also reliant on a bunch of hot keys, and though FLs mixer view is more cumbersome for routing, it can do some fun things that iirc ableton canít,

a neurotic ai
Mar 22, 2012


harmor is also the best soft synth, period

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010


kaboofa posted:

Whoa, that's rad. Are you doing it DIY style?
Nah, it's just a new-ish modular format that's bear-bones but cheap as hell and still analog - TangibleWaves. They've even got an Arduino module which is on it's way that I'm looking forward to doing some custom DSP stuff on at a glorious 8khz!

quote:

I've been eyeing the ES-9, but ended up with a Zoom instead. Let us know how it goes!
I will once I get it :argh:

But there's no loving way I'm putting my rack on Modular Grid because I don't want to know how much I've spent on it :(

It's kinda hard to explain what modular is without showing someone. I think of it a bit like programming, each module is just a really simple function that takes a few inputs and produces a few outputs, and you can put pretty much any module into one of three types...
it makes a signal - oscillators, LFOs, envelope/contour generators
it changes or modulates a signal - filters, amplifiers, ring modulators, sample-and-hold
it controls a signal - sequencers, clock dividers/multipliers

Technically you can use anything for anything though, and that's one thing that makes them fun - like, if you trigger an envelope-generator with an audio-rate signal, the output of the EG will sound like a hard-synced oscillator, or use a 4-input mixer and a sequential switch as a 4-step sequencer etc etc. It's all stuff you're used to using in a regular synth, you just get to plug it in different ways yourself.

One good way to get familiar with modular is to recreate stuff you already know - if you're using Reaktor, PD or SuperCollider then maybe try to build emulations of simpler 80s synths - the Roland SH101 or even Korg MS-20s are quite fun to try and build, and then you can break them and make them do stupid things. If you're in hardware land then maybe try and recreate things like drum sounds from old drum machines - find out how they made their snare/kick/cymbal/hi hat sounds and build them yourself, and then find interesting/hacky ways to build sequencers to trigger them.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



a neurotic ai posted:

the main takeaway Iíve gathered is that ableton doesnít use FLs infuriatingly irritating window management system, itís a lot easier to use in one view and lends itself to laptops better.

...but itís also reliant on a bunch of hot keys, and though FLs mixer view is more cumbersome for routing, it can do some fun things that iirc ableton canít,

what canít it do

Sniep
Mar 28, 2004

All I needed was that fatty blunt...



King of Breakfast


i want a korg minilogue xd pretty bad but i dont feel like finding 600 bucks for it

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





how do you play a modular? like I get how you hook a bunch of stuff up, but how do you make a melody? are there sequencer modules and sampler modules? and then you can choose to route a pot or keyboard or whatever into your oscillators frequency input for unsequenced stuff?

is the idea that you can basically make a custom synth at home, but you have to buy everything you want separately? like a sort of middle ground between buying a synth kit and buying something off the shelf?

kaboofa
Sep 13, 2004
Kaboofa

Achmed Jones posted:

how do you play a modular? like I get how you hook a bunch of stuff up, but how do you make a melody? are there sequencer modules and sampler modules? and then you can choose to route a pot or keyboard or whatever into your oscillators frequency input for unsequenced stuff?
Yep. All of those things. Sequencers, samplers, modules that convert midi to control voltage, and a ton more that I'm forgetting about.

Achmed Jones posted:

is the idea that you can basically make a custom synth at home, but you have to buy everything you want separately? like a sort of middle ground between buying a synth kit and buying something off the shelf?

Yup. There are a lot of modules that come as kits, too. Big homebrew/diy scene.
There are even semi-modular synths that have an internal signal flow, but give you patch points to change the flow.

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010


Achmed Jones posted:

how do you play a modular? like I get how you hook a bunch of stuff up, but how do you make a melody? are there sequencer modules and sampler modules? and then you can choose to route a pot or keyboard or whatever into your oscillators frequency input for unsequenced stuff?

is the idea that you can basically make a custom synth at home, but you have to buy everything you want separately? like a sort of middle ground between buying a synth kit and buying something off the shelf?
Sort of...you can definitely build something with the architecture of a traditional synth and control it via midi or a keyboard or whatever and use it like that, but IMHO you'd be missing a lot of the potential. With modular you can control *everything*, either deliberately via programming, or relying on chance and serendipity a bit more, just sticking LFOs or whatever into random parameters.

For example, most eurorack sequencers have CV control for transposing notes up and down, CV inputs for choosing the scale notes are quantised to, CV control for the clock rate or even direct control of what step is playing at any time. So you can set up rigs of sequencers all sequencing each other, and turn a 8 step melody into something that is constantly changing but still following rules...and then there's all the tricks you can do to generate accompaniments!

Voltage controlled transposition with a Metropolis sequencer...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psPpKGwU2kI

A PLL module following a wandering LFO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMtNsij8u14

More Metropolis stuff from MylarMelodies, one of the best channels on Youtube for learning about this stuff...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV9-XA5MPwY

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



woah

kaboofa
Sep 13, 2004
Kaboofa

Sample+Hold -> Pitch Quantizer = loads of fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhUjti1WZwo

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





cool a f

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





holy poo poo I just looked up the metropolis and it's $585. I was expecting like $200 or maybe $250. it's cool but drat

LuckySevens
Feb 16, 2004

fear not failure, fear only the limitations of our dreams



echinopsis posted:

iíve day dreamt of this. for a while I had this idea of being a one man band with looping pedals n poo poo and running my own lighting

it would actually be prettt cool to have a wee device that could accept midi and route different midi channels to different lights or modes or whatever 🤷‍♂️ sounds like fun

so many possibilities, so little time

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



more like so little motivation

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



i love how every synth video is just some guys hands being expressive and then pressing some buttons

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



maybe my strong button pressing skills can overcome my lack of musical talent one day

r u ready to WALK
Sep 29, 2001



You just need the right equipment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLlE4pnT6c

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



they seem to suffer less from the spend 18 mins slowly introducing the video disease

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010


Achmed Jones posted:

holy poo poo I just looked up the metropolis and it's $585. I was expecting like $200 or maybe $250. it's cool but drat
Yeah sequencers in particular tend to be really expensive. The metropolis is excellent though, I use mine in just about everything I make because you get so many happy accidents out of it. I got an Eloquencer recently and Iím basically done though cos it does *everything* - 8 independent tracks, up to 64 steps, patterns/parts/loops, tons of voltage control and probability based stuff too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPWf8bBOQXk

Luckily unless youíre going for a super boutique artisanal stuff then most of the modules you want lots of are relatively sanely priced, especially the ones from Doepfer.

LuckySevens
Feb 16, 2004

fear not failure, fear only the limitations of our dreams



echinopsis posted:

more like so little motivation

i settled on messing around with this new beta app cables.gl (which is compatible with blender!!!) and ableton, will report back

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWh21uvUZo

this guy is cool

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



LuckySevens posted:

i settled on messing around with this new beta app cables.gl (which is compatible with blender!!!) and ableton, will report back

:chanpop:

a neurotic ai
Mar 22, 2012


echinopsis posted:

what canít it do

Itís probably the FL mantra of having a million ways to do something, but if I recall correctly the only way to do multiple effects chains in ableton is through racks and groups. With FL I can arbitrarily connect any channel with another (I am probably wrong that ableton canít do this though.)

my faders also look much cooler when I make them dance by automating them with a peak controller (no joke this is how I side chained when I started).

Zaxxon
Feb 14, 2004

Wir Tanzen Mekanik

a neurotic ai posted:

Itís probably the FL mantra of having a million ways to do something, but if I recall correctly the only way to do multiple effects chains in ableton is through racks and groups. With FL I can arbitrarily connect any channel with another (I am probably wrong that ableton canít do this though.)

my faders also look much cooler when I make them dance by automating them with a peak controller (no joke this is how I side chained when I started).

you can route channels to channels in ableton.

a neurotic ai
Mar 22, 2012


well hey look thereís the existential crisis again

rchon
Feb 19, 2015


a neurotic ai posted:

harmor is also the best soft synth, period

:wrong: and yospos

also ableton is great in so many ways but 1) its automation is still maddening to me sometimes and 2) bouncing a clip/resampling is also pretty obnoxious

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





I was gonna post about how I don't know what sidechaining is or how to do it but then I googled it and this time I found actual reasonably written text documents that explained everything. so ive got that going for me

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rchon
Feb 19, 2015


excited bout this thread

i've probably spent a few thousand hours inside ableton. i don't have a single song to show for it; kinda given up on the idea that i am capable of creating music. but my fart sounds have become more advanced and the collection is ever-expanding. and maybe a few half-decent snares along the way.

vsti till i die

rchon fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Mar 11, 2020

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