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AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

priznat posted:

I dig this show a lot and that “pop” near the end of ep 2 :stare:


Yeah that was... something.

This is the kind of episode where I wish we didn't have to wait an entire week for the next. Well-constructed but not a ton happened plot-wise, Lily just caught up to us mostly and Forest is trying to ward off government oversight. And we learned the Two Rules of Devs.

Also I wish this was in 4K HDR, come on Hulu! Disney and Netflix have been on that Dolby Vision tip for a while now.

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Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

exmarx posted:

show's good. sonoya mizuno was the best part of maniac, so i'm excited to see what she does in this.

i'm getting the sense that nick offerman is trying to create a 'golden path', a la dune. devs' thesis on determinism seems to be that if you forecast backwards to unpack and analyse all the various causes of past events, you can create a model that predicts future ones. which is of course wrong, but it's a fun idea so whatever.

If you have a machine that can extrapolate particles' previous states from their current action and state you can already 'see' both forwards and backwards. It's not about creating a model that predicts the future, their machine already can see the future. This also makes it one of the most implausible sci-fi shows ever.

If people wish to read more on the topic, it's basically this: Laplace's demon.

Ham fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Mar 16, 2020

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


I don't think it being implausible is bad. In fact I think one garlands strong suits is that he can make the implausible feel believable.

Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012


The pizza that Lilly's ex was eating comes from a pizzeria not in San Francisco, but in Ealing, West London, specifically Santa Maria Pizzeria, which is an excellent (maybe the best in London) pizza place across the road from Ealing Studios, where this show was filmed. Nice to see they got a shout out!

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008


Comrade Fakename posted:

The pizza that Lilly's ex was eating comes from a pizzeria not in San Francisco, but in Ealing, West London, specifically Santa Maria Pizzeria, which is an excellent (maybe the best in London) pizza place across the road from Ealing Studios, where this show was filmed. Nice to see they got a shout out!

drat thought the area looked familiar, good eye!

Gooble Rampling
Jan 30, 2004

Enjoyed episode 4. Love a good shout-out to the Everett Interpretation the only correct interpretation. Not too happy if they go with Lily in an institution, but hopefully there will be a twist there.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.
Yeah good ep but Jamie nooooooo

exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.
love that alex garland sound design

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
poo poo's getting real!

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer
I like how they pointed out that they are using a deterministic interpretation of quantum mechanics. I was afraid that the writers were just using "quantum computing" as generic technobabble, but they have put some real thought into it.

I am curious to see where they are going with all this, because as far as I can tell there is basically only two ways the story can end:

1) The world truly is deterministic, which means the Amaya CEO knew everything right from the start.
At the end, he goes "I knew that would happen all along *yawn*". Credits.
2) It turns out that determinism can be broken by The Power of the Human Spirit. At the last moment, the main character does something unexpected, saving the day.
Amaya CEO drops to his knees, going "NO! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!".
Main characters smirks: "You thought the universe was controlled by natural laws, but you forgot to account for a little thing called FREE WILL!"
She pushes a button, and the Devs building explodes into a giant fireball.

1) is boring and 2) is sappy and cliché. I have faith in Alex Garland to come up with something better.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013
Garland's scripts -- and videogame, and the one novel of his I've read -- always feature some sort of last minute twist into a different kind of tenor or genre. Sometimes it's at a point of transcendence -- Sunshine, Annihilation, Enslaved -- or a last minute moral quandary -- 28 Days Later, Coma, Enslaved again. His work's so interesting, to me, because there's a moment in the final act where things just go off the rails, but in a way that's always been the point of the exercise rather than anything else.

I don't know if either option you're presenting is really his style. That's more JJ Abrahms.

I've not seen Ex Machina though.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
If you like Garland I suggest Ex Machina - it's definitely of a piece with his other stuff. I like it a lot. Great Oscar Isaac performance, plus the Devs lead is in it!

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.
Ex Machina is worth watching for the one scene alone (dance off) but the rest is great too.

Also Sonoya Mizuno was really good in the video for Wide Open by the Chemical Brothers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC2dRkm8ATU

priznat fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 22, 2020

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


The ending of Ex Machina is so good.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

veni veni veni posted:

The ending of Ex Machina is so good.

:agreed: it's perfect

Mover
Jun 30, 2008


Homeless bro is the key to everything

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Ok, let's see if I've got this right. Lyndon was able to get a clear signal on the past because he allowed the quantum computer to simulate a many-worlds universe? Meaning that, the computer's output was the conglomeration of different realities that each produced enough data to form a complete soundwave with a clear voice. Whereas the single universe model that Forest demands is fuzzy, because there's too much variation, too many possibilities for divergence, that results in not enough data to form a complete picture?

If that scene was a reference to a model from quantum physics, it might be lost on me. I get what shroedinger's cat is all about and that's about it.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


Mover posted:

Homeless bro is the key to everything

Yeah...that was low key one of the most interesting moments yet and I really want to see where that goes.

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

Ok, let's see if I've got this right. Lyndon was able to get a clear signal on the past because he allowed the quantum computer to simulate a many-worlds universe? Meaning that, the computer's output was the conglomeration of different realities that each produced enough data to form a complete soundwave with a clear voice. Whereas the single universe model that Forest demands is fuzzy, because there's too much variation, too many possibilities for divergence, that results in not enough data to form a complete picture?

If that scene was a reference to a model from quantum physics, it might be lost on me. I get what shroedinger's cat is all about and that's about it.

The impression I got was that Lyndon simply picked a close universe, somehow, and displayed the contents of that. This results in a clear picture because all the possible outcomes can be calculated precisely. The fuzzy part is figuring out which outcome will happen in our universe.

However, this pisses off Forest because Lyndon has basically given up on trying to model our universe, which was the whole point. Instead of a fuzzy picture of our Jesus, you get a clear picture of a possible Jesus, whose resemblance to ours is just as fuzzy. The only way of knowing how close you got is by comparing possible Jesus to our existing knowledge of Jesus, so you aren't really learning anything new.

SimonChris fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Mar 23, 2020

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

SimonChris posted:

The impression I got was that Lyndon simply picked a close universe, somehow, and displayed the contents of that. This results in a clear picture because all the possible outcomes can be calculated precisely. The fuzzy part is figuring out which outcome will happen in our universe.

However, this pisses off Forest because Lyndon has basically given up on trying to model our universe, which was the whole point. Instead of a fuzzy picture of our Jesus, you get a clear picture of a possible Jesus, whose resemblance to ours is just as fuzzy. The only way of knowing how close you got is by comparing possible Jesus to our existing knowledge of Jesus, so you aren't really learning anything new.

Why can't the possible outcomes be calculated precisely for "our" universe then?

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

Why can't the possible outcomes be calculated precisely for "our" universe then?

iirc theoretically BC you would need a computer the size of the universe to simulate all possible outcomes

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

Why can't the possible outcomes be calculated precisely for "our" universe then?

Because you don't know which one is the right one. You can visualize possible outcomes with as much detail as you like, but figuring out which outcome is the actual one in this universe is where all the fuzziness and uncertainty comes in.

Mover
Jun 30, 2008


we’re all wondering what Forest saw in the future, like a nuclear war or something but I think they should go completely off the rails and have it be like the second coming of Christ and that’s why he’s been looking at the crucifixion scene so much. anyway it ends with Amaya being resurrected bodily in the kingdom of heaven :catdrugs:

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

SimonChris posted:

I like how they pointed out that they are using a deterministic interpretation of quantum mechanics. I was afraid that the writers were just using "quantum computing" as generic technobabble, but they have put some real thought into it.

I am curious to see where they are going with all this, because as far as I can tell there is basically only two ways the story can end:

1) The world truly is deterministic, which means the Amaya CEO knew everything right from the start.
At the end, he goes "I knew that would happen all along *yawn*". Credits.
2) It turns out that determinism can be broken by The Power of the Human Spirit. At the last moment, the main character does something unexpected, saving the day.
Amaya CEO drops to his knees, going "NO! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!".
Main characters smirks: "You thought the universe was controlled by natural laws, but you forgot to account for a little thing called FREE WILL!"
She pushes a button, and the Devs building explodes into a giant fireball.

1) is boring and 2) is sappy and cliché. I have faith in Alex Garland to come up with something better.

I'm going with the world might be deterministic, but just because they can see the future, doesn't mean they can correctly comprehend what is going on. Lily's "death" is not what it seems to be.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


I still don't fully understand what Forest's end goal is. Regardless of him seeing some event in the future that has turned him totally nihilistic, his main thing seems to be that he thinks the machine will bring his daughter back, but best case scenario he's just watching her on a TV. I could see a man doing what he has done if he can ultimately bring her back, but not if it basically just amounts to atching home movies.

Mover posted:

we’re all wondering what Forest saw in the future, like a nuclear war or something but I think they should go completely off the rails and have it be like the second coming of Christ and that’s why he’s been looking at the crucifixion scene so much. anyway it ends with Amaya being resurrected bodily in the kingdom of heaven :catdrugs:

Although I doubt it's anything like this, I do like this idea.

veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Mar 24, 2020

1000 Sweaty Rikers
Oct 13, 2005

exmarx posted:

love that alex garland sound design

yeah that sound at the beginning of the last two episodes is kinda scary

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer

veni veni veni posted:

I still don't fully understand what Forest's end goal is. Regardless of him seeing some event in the future that has turned him totally nihilistic, his main thing seems to be that he thinks the machine will bring his daughter back, but best case scenario he's just watching her on a TV. I could see a man doing what he has done if he can ultimately bring her back, but not if it basically just amounts to atching home movies.

He even watches the exact same clip of her blowing bubbles all the time. I imagine him being told about her death and going "Dammit, I forgot to record her adorable bubble blowing!".

He clearly doesn't want to see an alternate future where she is still alive, so I don't really get it either.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed
My understanding is that closest thing he can come to seeing his daughter again, is a technology that can 100% replicate every single second of her life in stunning detail.

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL
Maybe he just forgot to turn on the camcorder at her bday party and he needs to watch her get bamboozled by the trick candles over and over and over.

Field Mousepad
Mar 21, 2010
BAE

Oasx posted:

My understanding is that closest thing he can come to seeing his daughter again, is a technology that can 100% replicate every single second of her life in stunning detail.

I was wondering what he was doing too but he created all of that to watch videos of his daughter? I feel like there's gonna be more to it than that.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003





I'm assuming he caused his daughters death and needs to world to be determinalistic to prove he couldn't of done anything differently to let himself off the hook.

Field Mousepad
Mar 21, 2010
BAE
Ahh yeah, I hope it isn't something lame like a car accident or some poo poo like that.

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

Those bubbles she is blowing aren't non-toxic, which he realized too late.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed

Field Mousepad posted:

I was wondering what he was doing too but he created all of that to watch videos of his daughter? I feel like there's gonna be more to it than that.

Perhaps there is, it certainly seemed odd for Sergei to be so shocked when he learned what the code was for.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006


Oasx posted:

Perhaps there is, it certainly seemed odd for Sergei to be so shocked when he learned what the code was for.

I took that to be the shock of realizing that the universe is deterministic

Field Mousepad
Mar 21, 2010
BAE
I thought it was he saw that the program could see into the future. I know that would scramble my brain.

f#a#
Sep 6, 2004

I can't promise it will live up to the hype, but I tried my best.
Field Mousepad called it but I'll be damned, that was a very cool episode of television. Framing the entire episode as recreations by the quantum computer worked well and provided some neat opportunities.

The thoughtfulness and detail are especially great as a chaser to Westworld's brain-dead return.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.
Yah that was absolutely spellbinding. I won’t profess to have figured out what they’re up to yet fully but it really dropped a lot of clues and juicy details.

The music for this show has been excellent too with the rock tunes also the throat singing and the slow panning shots of SF, gorgeous.

1000 Sweaty Rikers
Oct 13, 2005

wow this show

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veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


I'm glad I was able to stupidly/impulsively click on this thread before watching the new episode and walk away with nothing other than being very excited to watch it tomorrow now <3

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