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Which season should the next animated reconstruction be from?
Season 1 (Marco Polo)
Season 2 (The Crusade)
Season 3 (Galaxy 4/The Myth Makers/The Daleks' Master Plan/The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve/The Celestial Toymaker/The Savages)
Season 4 (The Smugglers/The Highlanders/The Underwater Menace/The Evil of the Daleks)
Season 5 (The Abominable Snowmen/The Web of Fear/The Wheel in Space)
Season 6 (The Space Pirates)
View Results
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elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

It's not a dream, or a lie.
I know my sister is alive out there.


York_M_Chan posted:

I honestly feel that Doctor Who is a happy show in an unhappy time. It is a show that tries to remain light and optimistic in an era where shows dare one another to go as dark as possible. Taking a quote from The Dark Tower, the world has "moved on" from Doctor Who. We only want anti-heroes now and it is really, really difficult to write a happy but believable character. Although, I think the major flaws of the past two seasons were in writing's structure not the characters... so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

This is why i dread "secret police" type stuff or whatever that's building to.

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elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

It's not a dream, or a lie.
I know my sister is alive out there.


What I like about Doctor Who is that it's kinda stupid and not usually about cool cops/cool space militarys/cool space guns/cool secret government agencies etc

theblackw0lf
Apr 14, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

York_M_Chan posted:

I honestly feel that Doctor Who is a happy show in an unhappy time. It is a show that tries to remain light and optimistic in an era where shows dare one another to go as dark as possible. Taking a quote from The Dark Tower, the world has "moved on" from Doctor Who. We only want anti-heroes now and it is really, really difficult to write a happy but believable character. Although, I think the major flaws of the past two seasons were in writing's structure not the characters... so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

I don't know shows that remind us in dark times that humanity is still capable of compassion and redemption can be a great salve in times of despair. (See The Good Place).

York_M_Chan
Sep 11, 2003



theblackw0lf posted:

I don't know shows that remind us in dark times that humanity is still capable of compassion and redemption can be a great salve in times of despair. (See The Good Place).

Very good example. I just meant it was hard, not impossible.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


SiKboy posted:

Like for example every time the doctor has been scanned by aliens who identify them as Gallifreyan/Time Lord. Now it turns out the doctor is not in fact a Gallifreyan. Sure they'd share some DNA if the regeneration ability was spliced into the time lords, but those goats they gene altered to produce spider silk milk would still be identifiable as goats, not spiders. I realise thats the most minor of the continuity this fucks, but its something thats across a bunch of episodes.

Think of it this way - it's not that the timeless child's Gallifreyan, it's that the Gallifreyans are timeless children, especially after multiple generations of Time Lords are given the child's genetics

"You look human."
"No, you look Time Lord."

York_M_Chan
Sep 11, 2003



Vinylshadow posted:

Think of it this way - it's not that the timeless child's Gallifreyan, it's that the Gallifreyans are timeless children, especially after multiple generations of Time Lords are given the child's genetics

I was complaining about the ep to my wife and she literally said the exact thing and it made me like it more.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Honestly I'm more gaulled by the BBC's rank arrogance than anything else.

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 10, 2020

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


ConanThe3rd posted:

Honestly I'm more gaulled by the BBC's rank arrogance than anything else.

Just like they did in the 1980s, the Beeb has apparently stopped giving a poo poo about the show. If they did, they would have fired Moffat when it was clear he was loving up the show's production run. That's what makes me wonder at times if it's still the big money earner for the Beeb everyone says it is (I'm sure they're still making bank on DW licensed merch, though).

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


the BBC has never made money on Who

I don't think they legally can

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Sydney Bottocks posted:

Just like they did in the 1980s, the Beeb has apparently stopped giving a poo poo about the show. If they did, they would have fired Moffat when it was clear he was loving up the show's production run. That's what makes me wonder at times if it's still the big money earner for the Beeb everyone says it is (I'm sure they're still making bank on DW licensed merch, though).

I'd agree but I'm kinda at a press to even know what merch at this point. We are a long way away from Dalekmania 2006 at this point.

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 10, 2020

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

The Timeless Child is THE DOCTOR? Oh, for God's sake!


Top Cop

They put out T-shirts for every episode this year, which I guess sell?

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


Burkion posted:

the BBC has never made money on Who

I don't think they legally can

I vaguely remember reading something about how they make money on DW via licensing and overseas distribution and whatnot, but they can't reallocate it back to DW specifically, it has to go into their general funding for all their programs. So it's good to have it around as long as that keeps happening, but I'm starting to wonder if that is still the case, given that the ratings are dropping and they aren't hitting the "social media highs" of the Tennant/Smith salad days.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Yes. The BBC's income goes into a general pot, rather than a show-related pot.

A Fancy Hat
Nov 18, 2016

Always remember that the President is dumber than the dumbest person you've ever met by a wide margin


I really, really, really wanted to like these last 2 seasons. I love Jodie, I love the companions, I love how beautiful everything looks. But there wasn't a single episode that I loved, and even episodes that I liked were just kind of forgettable.

Then there's stuff like that Kerblam episode which had some super weird politics in it that made me think the show had lost sight of itself.

I tried this season out, bailed after the 2nd episode didn't grab me. From what I've read online, I made the right decision for myself.

The good thing is I've disliked the show before, only for it to bounce back to new highs. I gave up late in Tennant's run and fell in love with the show once Smith came in. I just hope that they can keep the current Doctor, the companions (although maybe have them alternate stories so each one gets more to do), and the general upbeat nature. Just get some tighter scripts, please.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Well it can ether get a loving grip of itself or we can go back to the wilderness.

Thing is, we now have 50 years of content, side stuff like big finish included, to keep us busy so if we end up back in the weeds we might never get out.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible




https://twitter.com/NoelClarke/stat...7882133504?s=20

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



I think we're at the point where I'm comfortable saying that I do not like the 13th Doctor, and although Chris Chibnall's (at best) bland writing isn't doing her any favours, I don't think Jodie Whittaker is giving a particularly good performance. I've never seen anything else she's been in so I can't really speak to what her strengths actually are, but she routinely fails to deliver on both the comedy and the drama. Her delivery of the group structure line from The Haunting of Villa Diodati was particularly dreadful, and when the Doctor has her "eureka!" moments it always feels like she's just reading the line and not actually realising anything.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Jodie’s first season had her be incredibly passive and nice, never seeming like she was on top of the situation. The latest one gave her a few more teeth, but she still feels like she’s never in charge of what’s going on, and is still just passively dragged along by the story happening at her.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


elf help book posted:

This is why i dread "secret police" type stuff or whatever that's building to.

It’s building to “the Time Lords had a secret police force roaming Time and the Doctor was part of it but turned against the corrupt system to bring it down” thing. We’ve seen the series do it before but I’m not going to complain if Chris “the bad guy always gets away” Chibnall decides to do it again.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Oh lord they're going to reveal the exact circumstances that led to the Doctor being mind-wiped and regenerating into the person we think of as "the Doctor" aren't they

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Jo Martin's Doctor is going to get her mind wiped and then stumble out of the TARDIS and into a field, then get picked up by the Brigadier who will look at Jon Pertwee's face and say this isn't the man he thought it would be.

Spearhead footage is even available in HD!

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


2house2fly posted:

Oh lord they're going to reveal the exact circumstances that led to the Doctor being mind-wiped and regenerating into the person we think of as "the Doctor" aren't they

Man, imagine being a kid and stumbling upon this version of DW.

"A bored alien aristocrat rebelling against their stuffy and regimented society to have adventures and make new pals? gently caress that, here's how the Doctor was really a super secret agent who got their memories erased and who also just happened to be the being who gave birth to the society they supposedly ran away from in the first place. That's way cooler, isn't it, kids? " -- Chris "Cyberwoman" Chibnall, probably

Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Mar 11, 2020

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You can't take it with you, you know.


elf help book posted:

What I like about Doctor Who is that it's kinda stupid and not usually about cool cops/cool space militarys/cool space guns/cool secret government agencies etc

Yeah, the cool cops with cool space guns in cool secret agencies are usually played as comically incompetent bad guys. That's kind of the whole thing about the Time Lords, they terrify the whole Universe and have extreme cosmic power but the only thing the Doctor cares about is they have stupid hats and they're humorless, unimaginative bores who are easy to trick because it's easy to get under their skin and call their traditions "super mega boring."

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Still laugh every so often when I think about how the 6th Doctor tried to get out of being put on trial.

Six: I'm the President so I declare you can't put me on trial.
Councillor: You literally ran away 2 seconds after getting made President so we stripped you of the title and got a new President.
Six: ....well you got me there.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

The Timeless Child is THE DOCTOR? Oh, for God's sake!


Top Cop

It looks like Doctor Who is no longer streaming on Prime Video in the US.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

2house2fly posted:

Oh lord they're going to reveal the exact circumstances that led to the Doctor being mind-wiped and regenerating into the person we think of as "the Doctor" aren't they

Spoilers: it was the [whichever modern societal group Chibnall doesn't like] wearing time lord robes.

Until the BBC accepts the need for a new showrunner and someone is appointed this isn't going to get any better.

Maybe the TV license thing will go away, the BBC will get desperate and sell it off allowing some creative auteur like say Uwe Boll to pick it up and save it.

DancingShade fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Mar 11, 2020

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Or an Ian Flynn type if we were trying 'hope' for a change of pace.

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Mar 11, 2020

Voting Floater
May 19, 2019



So, looking back on the series... I guess Graham really did see ghosts in the Haunting of Villa Diodati? Will the ghost sandwiches ever be explained?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Jerusalem posted:

Still laugh every so often when I think about how the 6th Doctor tried to get out of being put on trial.

Six: I'm the President so I declare you can't put me on trial.
Councillor: You literally ran away 2 seconds after getting made President so we stripped you of the title and got a new President.
Six: ....well you got me there.

Well, the last time around (technically two trials ago) the Doctor invoked Article 17 to avoid execution and apparently became President by default after Goth “died heroically” and was still President when he came back again with an alien invasion fleet.

Which also makes me think that we missed a chance with a post-Missy Master who shows up with alien invaders for the Doctor to defeat because she’s trying to help. Kind of like the Delgado Master, but intentionally.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


DancingShade posted:

Spoilers: it was the [whichever modern societal group Chibnall doesn't like] wearing time lord robes.

I dunno about this one. I mean in other hands, yes, but Chibnall's never struck me as someone with that big an axe to grind against any particular societal group or social issue. I don't mean that positively or negatively, he just doesn't seem to me like someone who's so strongly anti-anybody that it would affect his writing. Either because he's not really all that hateful or because he has a strong barrier between his work and his personal life, I'm not sure.

I'm realizing I know strikingly little about Chibnall as a person for how much stuff of his I've seen, though. Like, the most I can reasonably guess is 'he seems to like smaller towns and cities over bigger ones', given how he seems generally uninterested in writing stories set anywhere larger than Sheffield.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You can't take it with you, you know.


Cleretic posted:


I'm realizing I know strikingly little about Chibnall as a person for how much stuff of his I've seen, though. Like, the most I can reasonably guess is 'he seems to like smaller towns and cities over bigger ones', given how he seems generally uninterested in writing stories set anywhere larger than Sheffield.

Even that's sort of up for grabs, because he definitely recognizes small town ugliness in Broadchurch.

He did cast a woman in the role and two people of color as companions, which, sadly, is explicitly political in today's climate. "Racism is bad and so is climate change" are things you would think are just a given, but here we are.

Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Mar 11, 2020

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


I mean, if you are gonna go with "Racisim bad," then at least he did it at the apropo time(s) so I'll give him that much.

Even if we never saw Butterfly Effect Man and his cool gimmick of causing butterfly effects again because Chibs basicaly used him as a monster of the week.

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Mar 11, 2020

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I don't know, he seems to have pretty strong opinions that Amazon workers should just shut the gently caress up and happily throw themselves into the meat grinder because at least they get paid

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


He did manage to wake a woman of colour the Doctor, albeit not the main one, because the show will be another 2 decades before it gets there properly.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


The_Doctor posted:

He did manage to wake a woman of colour the Doctor, albeit not the main one, because the show will be another 2 decades before it gets there properly.

Gonna be honest. I don't think, shy of someone being the Flynn to Chibs' Penders, that this show has two years left in it, never-mind 20.

The timeless child and its devil-may-care attitude to the overall story of the show (which, lets face it, was always a bit Calvenball) was an exclamation point to an awful season.

Fixing that is getting rid of a one symptom of the disease. There's still the underutilisation of the cast, the bizzare character beats for 13th (The person who was a grandfather and has (as far as we were to know) loving died thirteen times prior has nothing to say to a grandfather whose afraid of their cancer coming back?!), the sometimes baffling story choices (Spiders, Ker-loving-blam but I repeat myself) and much more besides.

There needs to be a new lawman in town if and I honestly don't think they'll come.

The BBC is talking the big game about running the show indefinitely now (because apparently
they now care what cockbadgers on youtube say?) but all It will take is some Tory corpse asking why the BBC is wasting money on a show underperforming (and maybe hinting at a licence fee reduction) and that noose is all but tied.

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Mar 11, 2020

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

The Timeless Child is THE DOCTOR? Oh, for God's sake!


Top Cop

Again, they've already sold the rights to seasons 38-40 to China. They're not going to renege on that.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Swobu



Sydney Bottocks posted:

Just like they did in the 1980s, the Beeb has apparently stopped giving a poo poo about the show. If they did, they would have fired Moffat when it was clear he was loving up the show's production run. That's what makes me wonder at times if it's still the big money earner for the Beeb everyone says it is (I'm sure they're still making bank on DW licensed merch, though).

Why do people poo poo on Moffat? Aren't all the best Doctor Who seasons under his reign?

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

The Timeless Child is THE DOCTOR? Oh, for God's sake!


Top Cop

Khanstant posted:

Why do people poo poo on Moffat? Aren't all the best Doctor Who seasons under his reign?

There was no season in 2016.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Khanstant posted:

Why do people poo poo on Moffat? Aren't all the best Doctor Who seasons under his reign?

I didn't realize Moffat was running the show in 1970

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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Swobu



Edward Mass posted:

There was no season in 2016.

You can't hold 2016 poo poo against people! That was the year everyone on Earth hosed up big time!

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