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Which season should the next animated reconstruction be from?
Season 1 (Marco Polo)
Season 2 (The Crusade)
Season 3 (Galaxy 4/The Myth Makers/The Daleks' Master Plan/The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve/The Celestial Toymaker/The Savages)
Season 4 (The Smugglers/The Highlanders/The Underwater Menace/The Evil of the Daleks)
Season 5 (The Abominable Snowmen/The Web of Fear/The Wheel in Space)
Season 6 (The Space Pirates)
View Results
 
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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Psst! It's me!
The Sinister with the mutant gene.


She needs a fez.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Rhyno posted:

She needs a fez.

https://i.imgur.com/iKP22u0.mp4

She has the best facial expressions

Action Jacktion
Jun 3, 2003


I just saw Mindwarp and oh yeah it's bad. There's not enough story for four episodes but it would've been dull even if it'd been shorter. The whole idea just should've been thrown out. Setting so much of it in dimly-lit caves wasn't a good idea. It might be a common problem in Doctor Who not to be able to tell where places are in relation to each other, but it's especially bad here.

One of the problems they'd wanted to fix from the previous season was that the Doctor was unlikable, and here he goes crazy and starts working with the villains. It might not be real but we still see it. Mysterious Planet did a good job showing a good relationship between the Doctor and Peri but it's all flushed away here.

The trial interruptions didn't bother me as much as in the previous story, though the fact the Time Lords themselves interfere seems to make the whole thing moot, and reveals how half-baked the idea is.

Sil and Yrcanos do get some funny dialogue, though even Brian Blessed looks bored at times. Kind of weird seeing the guy from My Beautiful Laundrette as a sci-fi freedom fighter, not that he has much to do.

Rochallor
Apr 22, 2010


Burkion posted:

She's just really nice and sweet and I'd like to see her get very vindictive at some point. Its kind of tied to that lack of agency thing, I think. She doesn't get to do stuff really. The Doctor's not like an angry character, usually, but even the Fifth Doctor got to be pissed off. She mostly comes across, at her worst, as mildly crossed.

I've harped on this before but the biggest reason for this is that the Doctor doesn't spend any time talking with the villains anymore. The majority of the dialogue under Chibnall is the Doctor and the companions discussing the plot, designating roles for each of the companions to do, then getting back together and discussing the results. It's like Law & Order: TARDIS or something. So the only time she can get angry is when one of the companions does something she doesn't like, like when Graham expresses enthusiasm for killing a mass murderer or whatever.

I didn't watch like half of the last season so maybe there are some counter-examples, but the only instance of the Doctor getting into the thick of it with a bad guy I can think of is the episode with King James. It seems like such a more myopic show nowadays, and the fact that the inherently boring dialogue is being scripted by someone who's far worse at patter than RTD or Moffat makes it all the more weaker.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Yeah there are lots of examples (E: of her talking to villains) in the second half of the season.

Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Oct 11, 2020

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Yeah, it feels like she never gets to have the big righteous indignation, oncoming storm speech that, even if it was tired sometimes, all the other modern Doctors at least got a version of. It feels like they're toning down the Doctor's volatility and mercurial nature a bit and the fact that they're doing this for the first female Doctor can't help but feel moderately sexist, to me.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFGFd3GQxgA#t=39s

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Burkion posted:

Her current outfit fits her fine but it's also very...

Honestly it's the problem I have with the character. She's very soft. Which, the Doctor can be and should be soft, but it's very always always soft. She has almost no rough edges. No serious bouts of anger. No righteous indignation.

She's just really nice and sweet and I'd like to see her get very vindictive at some point. Its kind of tied to that lack of agency thing, I think. She doesn't get to do stuff really. The Doctor's not like an angry character, usually, but even the Fifth Doctor got to be pissed off. She mostly comes across, at her worst, as mildly crossed.

Android Blues posted:

Yeah, it feels like she never gets to have the big righteous indignation, oncoming storm speech that, even if it was tired sometimes, all the other modern Doctors at least got a version of. It feels like they're toning down the Doctor's volatility and mercurial nature a bit and the fact that they're doing this for the first female Doctor can't help but feel moderately sexist, to me.

Agree with both of these.

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Yeah, it is. Isn't it?

Bowties are cool.

Thirteen and Ten team up, in video game form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y20ohRYUKv8

Also, some sort of found footage cell phone game based on Blink, featuring Osgood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyHi5uDUqIo

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


The '...but probably not the one you were expecting' line doesn't really work for 10 considering how prevalent he is at the moment with all the TLV stuff.

Pastamania
Mar 5, 2012

You cannot know.
The things I've seen.
The things I've done.
The things he made me do.


Android Blues posted:

Yeah, it feels like she never gets to have the big righteous indignation, oncoming storm speech that, even if it was tired sometimes, all the other modern Doctors at least got a version of. It feels like they're toning down the Doctor's volatility and mercurial nature a bit and the fact that they're doing this for the first female Doctor can't help but feel moderately sexist, to me.

I can see how you'd arrive at that conclusion, but the thing is, it's not just the Doctor. Every character has been almost bland and entirely one note, to the point that in 2 seasons I can only think of a handful of scenes for anyone where they've not been in the exact same emotional state and place as they were at the start. It's not like Ryan or Yaz have any more depth, and Graham only stands out because he's literally an early evening gameshow character who's somehow wondering around in Who.

It's a shame, because the few times the cast gets something else to do, they all nail it. The Doctors 'Oh gently caress you' eyes when the Master told her to kneel, Graham's subtle grief when his wife died, Ryans monologue to his Dad (that one hit me hard), Yaz's....Ok, Yaz has had nothing yet, but those moments are so rare. Most of it is the Doctor being all 'Core blimey it's YOU, who did THE THING, I am SUCH A FAN!!!!, Ryan being 'Duh what does that mean?', Yaz being boringly competent, and Graham being a punchline.

That's been Chibnalls thing the whole time he's written for Who though - Dull as gently caress episodes with occasionally weird payoffs, like 'Amazon workers should like stfu' and 'Hey Nazi's it's a brown guy, get him!', or 'deadbeat Dellboy-esq Dad who keeps abandoning his son to chase crazy schemes was proved right when his crazy scheme saved the day'. Even Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - the one good thing he's written on Who - suddenly morphed from dumb fun comedy romp to 'gently caress you Walder Frey DIE' out of nowhere.

It's not like RTD or Moffat era Who had especially in depth characters, Ten was either 'I AM ALONE', 'I AM A VENGEFUL GOD', or 'THAT'S BRILLIANT!!!!'. But those are, like, 3 entirely different notes at least. And characters actually changed over time. Amy and Rory were different people by their third season - Amy was more empathic, Rory was less neurotic. How has, say, Yaz changed from her first scene?

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


The_Doctor posted:

The '...but probably not the one you were expecting' line doesn't really work for 10 considering how prevalent he is at the moment with all the TLV stuff.

I'm more surprised that 13 was in it.

Rochallor
Apr 22, 2010


Pastamania posted:

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - the one good thing he's written on Who

After being profoundly disappointed by Whitaker's first season, I rewatched Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and it was astounding how much more of a competent piece of television it was. It does a pretty good job of giving all of its large cast of characters a couple of beats, a feat which has thus far eluded Chibnall's other writing. It's kind of dopey, but that's a far more forgivable flaw than dull and pointless.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Pastamania posted:

That's been Chibnalls thing the whole time he's written for Who though - Dull as gently caress episodes with occasionally weird payoffs, like 'Amazon workers should like stfu' and 'Hey Nazi's it's a brown guy, get him!', or 'deadbeat Dellboy-esq Dad who keeps abandoning his son to chase crazy schemes was proved right when his crazy scheme saved the day'. Even Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - the one good thing he's written on Who - suddenly morphed from dumb fun comedy romp to 'gently caress you Walder Frey DIE' out of nowhere.

Hmm. I'm not going to defend the author of Cyberwoman as brilliant, but there's plenty of fair criticisms to level at Chibnall without ascribing other people's faults to him.

Kerblam! author = Pete McTighe
Kerblam! script editor = Fiona McAllister

Plus we have McTighe specifically taking credit for the "twist" at the end of the episode, and proudly so.

42 and The Woman Who Fell to Earth were both competent, The Power of Three and The Tsurunga Conundrum surprisingly good. His finales have left something to be desired, and I think I'd prefer him as showrunner not to be doing much of the writing. Then again, I think the "head writer also runs the show" development of the new era is frankly madness. We've ended up with some shockingly good series, but the management side of things hasn't been as consistent and I find myself wondering if the overlap in responsibilities isn't part of why it seems to be so hard to complete a season every year.

He's not as talented as the previous two showrunners. But I'd take him over Eric Saward any day.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

The Timeless Child is THE DOCTOR? Oh, for God's sake!


Narsham posted:

He's not as talented as the previous two showrunners. But I'd take him over Eric Saward any day.

Being better than the guy who got Doctor Who off the air for 18 months is not exactly a high bar.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Narsham posted:

He's not as talented as the previous two showrunners. But I'd take him over Eric Saward any day.

To be honest I enjoy The Visitation and Revelation of the Daleks more than any script credited to Chibnall aside from maybe The Power of Three.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Eric Saward you say? Why certainly I'll accept any excuse to post this!



Full credit to forktoss for this and all the other wonderful comics they've made in the past.

This WAS forktoss, right?

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Jerusalem posted:

Eric Saward you say? Why certainly I'll accept any excuse to post this!



Full credit to forktoss for this and all the other wonderful comics they've made in the past.

This WAS forktoss, right?

Yes and we need more! <> (I jest, but they’re so good!)

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


https://twitter.com/_billiebelieves...0140685312?s=21

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Edward Mass posted:

Being better than the guy who got Doctor Who off the air for 18 months is not exactly a high bar.

OK, let's get down to cases, shall we? Questions below for the thread. How would you rate Chibnall as a writer in comparison to the following series writers (ignore the show-running stuff)?

Mark Gatiss
Bob Baker and Dave Martin
Terry Nation

He's clearly worse than the best writers for the show, and there have been a decent number of them. He's better than the absolute worst, although I do suspect a few posters here might argue that and suggest that Pip and Jane Baker or Mervyn Haisman and Henry Lincoln are massively underrated.

FreezingInferno
Jul 15, 2010

THERE.
WILL.
BE.
NO.
BATTLE.
HERE!


Better than non-Genesis Nation and about on par with a good Baker/Martin story.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

The_Doctor posted:

Yes and we need more! <> (I jest, but they’re so good!)

I have had a couple sort of half-planned for ages, maybe I should try to find the time to actually make them! It has been a very long time since the last one.

Narsham posted:

OK, let's get down to cases, shall we? Questions below for the thread. How would you rate Chibnall as a writer in comparison to the following series writers (ignore the show-running stuff)?

Mark Gatiss
Bob Baker and Dave Martin
Terry Nation

Baker & Martin for one are hands down better than Chibnall. Gatiss is just as sloppy but more fun, Nation has the same kind of dire baseline tone to his work but at least a good script editor could get something out of him, which Davies or Moffat never got from the Chib.

quote:

I do suspect a few posters here might argue that and suggest that Pip and Jane Baker or Mervyn Haisman and Henry Lincoln are massively underrated.

I mean you can't fault The Web of Fear, and Pip & Jane could at least keep a deadline.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

FreezingInferno posted:

Better than non-Genesis Nation and about on par with a good Baker/Martin story.

Oh no way is anything by Chibnall nearly as good as The Three Doctors!

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


The Mutants is actually excellent

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Nation could write some really good stuff

He was just extraordinarily lazy about recycling his own stuff

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.



That's the way you do it, get your money for nothing and your kicks for free.

Big Finish are giving away The Eleven for free this week (I assume there's not some catch). I haven't listened to a Big Finish audio in a very, very long time, over a decade. Is it worth downloading? I keep meaning to get some of the Paul McGann post-Charlie stuff, but never get round to it.

McGann
May 18, 2003

Get up you son of a bitch! 'Cause Mickey loves you!



OldMemes posted:

That's the way you do it, get your money for nothing and your kicks for free.

Big Finish are giving away The Eleven for free this week (I assume there's not some catch). I haven't listened to a Big Finish audio in a very, very long time, over a decade. Is it worth downloading? I keep meaning to get some of the Paul McGann post-Charlie stuff, but never get round to it.

Anything with The Eleven in it is worth it IMO just to hear Mark Bonnar enjoying the hell out of the role.

Edit: Between The Eleven and Norton Folgate, I'm not sure which Big Finish original character I enjoy more, but they're always must buys for me.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


OldMemes posted:

That's the way you do it, get your money for nothing and your kicks for free.

Big Finish are giving away The Eleven for free this week (I assume there's not some catch). I haven't listened to a Big Finish audio in a very, very long time, over a decade. Is it worth downloading? I keep meaning to get some of the Paul McGann post-Charlie stuff, but never get round to it.

Yeah it's fine. I don't remember the stories being particularly interesting but you get Mark Bonnar and Paul McGann, what's not to like?

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



OldMemes posted:

Big Finish are giving away The Eleven for free this week (I assume there's not some catch).

The catch is that it's the first of four parts of a(n expensive) box set, which is the first of a(n expensive) four box set series, which is one of four Paul McGann box set series that already exist with more undoubtedly on the way.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


So a friend of mine posted a really interesting tweet thread on an obscure sect of ancient Greeks who specifically believed in a god that they also, at the same time, believed did not exist. He literally exists because he doesn't, he is a negative-space god.

https://twitter.com/JazzElves/statu...670327859597312

I bring this up because it turns out that the belief he's describing was actually the initial inspiration for the villain in everyone's favorite anniversary story wait where are you going

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

They smelled of pubs, and Wormwood Scrubs, and too many right-wing meetings.

So I twatted them with a magic yo-yo. Because, hell, why not?


Burkion posted:

Nation could write some really good stuff

He was just extraordinarily lazy about recycling his own stuff
Probably repeating the story, but Nation recycled a script he first wrote for The Saint ('Lida') into an episode of The Baron ('Portrait of Louisa'), even copying some of the dialogue almost verbatim. Both were ITC shows, but either nobody noticed the similarities, or nobody cared. Until both episodes were broadcast on the same weekend in the States...

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


If you ever watch the bonus features that come with the classic series DVDs (and I assume Blu-Ray collections?) which I highly recommend, you hear some great stories from Terrance Dicks about getting scripts from Terry Nation, then calling him on the phone and saying,"Terry... this is the same script you gave me 6 months ago...."

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You can't take it with you, you know.


Jerusalem posted:

If you ever watch the bonus features that come with the classic series DVDs (and I assume Blu-Ray collections?) which I highly recommend, you hear some great stories from Terrance Dicks about getting scripts from Terry Nation, then calling him on the phone and saying,"Terry... this is the same script you gave me 6 months ago...."

"Oh is it? Here, hand it to me for a second." *scribbles over some words with a Sharpie, pastes in a few pages from a different script* "There, I'll expect payment in two weeks."

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Jerusalem posted:

If you ever watch the bonus features that come with the classic series DVDs (and I assume Blu-Ray collections?) which I highly recommend, you hear some great stories from Terrance Dicks about getting scripts from Terry Nation, then calling him on the phone and saying,"Terry... this is the same script you gave me 6 months ago...."

It comes up in a few of the Dalek ones, I believe

Can't imagine why...

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001




Recycling of The Daleks

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


List of people who have not realized that Daleks are organic beings inside a metal-housing environment suit, instead believing that they are literally robots:

- Terry Nation, creator of the Daleks.

That is all.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I'd love to see a return of some of the other forms of the Dalek mutants- we've had the brain starfish for a while but some of the goopier ones would be great to see

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Burkion posted:

I'd love to see a return of some of the other forms of the Dalek mutants- we've had the brain starfish for a while but some of the goopier ones would be great to see

All vestigial limbs and sensory organs, almost amoeboid. I did like the idea of the vomit inducing ‘functional appendages and some kind of mechanical prosthesis grafted into its very body’, which appeared to be a metal claw.

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


Rochallor posted:

I would prefer that the War Doctor be used as little as possible, really. Given that he regenerates immediately after the end of DotD, there's not a lot of times for him to pop up and on those occasions he's probably in an even worse state than he is in DotD. The novels and four-part audio stories are fine continuity speaking, I guess, even if I'm conceptually opposed to them, but him getting invited to a bunch of multi-Doctor stories is rather silly.

Homora Gaykemi posted:

Yeah, I feel like the War Doc is best left where he is now.

It was one thing when we actually had John Hurt around to play the Doctor in audios set during the war itself, and Day itself was obviously a special case, but him interacting with other Doctors after that feels like it would kind of go against the "mythologising" that those that come after him have been doing prior to that point (which they then learn in Day was wrong and the result of misunderstood trauma and stuff)

Though I can't lie and say that if Hurt was still with us I wouldn't love a one off with him and McGann together

GOOD NEWS!

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/st...7188061185?s=19

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Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Ugh

It's just going to Briggsy again isn't it

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