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Which season should the next animated reconstruction be from? This poll is closed. |
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| Season 1 (Marco Polo) |
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13 | 18.57% |
| Season 2 (The Crusade) |
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1 | 1.43% |
| Season 3 (Galaxy 4/The Myth Makers/The Daleks' Master Plan/The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve/The Celestial Toymaker/The Savages) |
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25 | 35.71% |
| Season 4 (The Smugglers/The Highlanders/The Underwater Menace/The Evil of the Daleks) |
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16 | 22.86% |
| Season 5 (The Abominable Snowmen/The Web of Fear/The Wheel in Space) |
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11 | 15.71% |
| Season 6 (The Space Pirates) |
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4 | 5.71% |
| Total: | 70 votes | ||
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I'd honestly be okay if they, say, cast someone as a young One and made a point about how maybe he snuck out of Gallifrey here and there before he got old and left it for good with Susan. Or if they decided to show us the Doctor family as new characters, as we know they exist but they're a blank slate in terms of characterization. There's a lot of space where I think the series is ripe for retconning/writing in the gaps without really ruining the mystique and the openness of the premise of the show. I really feel, based on what I've heard so far, that Chibnall messed it up though. It's nothing irreparable, Doctor Who is full of stuff that's either ignored or retconned out of existence and this will probably end up under the latter category based on the reaction it got so far (I only know a few people who were positive about the finale), but it's a bit of a bummer that it happened in the first place, especially when it was coming from a big Doctor Who fan doing his first big arc for the show.
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Mar 12, 2020 10:47
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 09:30 |
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To be honest, pros with a fandom background worked pretty well with Davies and Moffat, for all their faults. The program was hugely successful under Davies and even moreso under Moffat during the first Smith years. It wasn't until later that there was a decline in viewership. Besides, Chibnall was probably chosen, among other things, 1) because, y'know, he showed he had a willingness to do this really time-consuming, tiring job 2) because he clearly has skills, the show looks great right now, the new musical direction is great, the casting is consistently very good (everybody seems to love Sacha Dhawan's master) 3) there's a non-insignificant chance other people refused 4) he had been a showrunner on several shows before. So, I do think the choice makes sense from the point of view of the BBC, and while I really dislike this retcon, I think it's giving ammo to people who absolutely want to be proven right in their pet theories in this thread, and that's a little questionable.
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Mar 14, 2020 10:20
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Oh, that's actually amazing. I loved The Day of the Doctor but I also love this, and I love this account of the Time War a lot. People were wondering what good Chibnall's retcon would do, and if it pushed Rusty to release this, well, then it at least did *some* good.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:37
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1, 4, 10 + Day of the Doctor.
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Apr 9, 2020 10:26
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The "theory" that they were secret brothers was the original plan for the Master's character before Delgado died. That development was so tied to the original ending for Delgado's version of the character, that I don't think it's particularly weird that later showrunners would distance themselves from it, especially considering how long the character has been running without that being revealed. Besides, one thing Rusty can't be accused of is of not keeping things vague: the whole "looked into the time vortex and made him mad" stuff is specifically explained by 10 as something some people think, and even when we learn what caused the Sound of Drums, you can easily handwave that as *not* necessarily the cause of the Master's actions, and something that wasn't even part of the timeline during the early episodes with the character. The one thing RTD confirmed is that the Doctor did indeed have a family, which should have been obvious to everybody, but some people became really convinced that, in spite of Susan calling him grandfather, no, the Doctor actually just took a random child out for adventures. ALSO LOOMS. I'm surprised that Chibnall went for the "canonize the Morbius doctors" first rather than just introducing the Doctor's son/daughter or something like that.
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Apr 10, 2020 07:44
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John Hurt already looked old as a baby. Amazing.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:24
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https://twitter.com/russelldavies63/status/1251955720062410754 This sounds a lot better than how they did it in the final episode, but I certainly can understand the budget constraints. EDIT: Also this is pretty good: https://twitter.com/russelldavies63/status/1251954805100208128 EDIT 2: LMAO https://twitter.com/russelldavies63/status/1251957695353061376 Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 20:29
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Apparently this is a thing. A "multi-platform story" involving 8, 9 and 10, set during the "Dark Times at the start of the universe", which, uh, I guess is gonna involve David Tennant going a bit power-mad given it's titled Time Lord Victorious. Also Rose's in it.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:06
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The difference between The Day of the Doctor retcon and this retcon is that The Day of the Doctor is an ultimate celebration of the character's optimism and their desire to save others, while this retcon seems to exist exclusively to make the Doctor special and insert some dodgy past stuff about Time Lord secret services that could still be done without adding special pre-Hartnell infinite regenerations and a new backstory for Gallifrey that, frankly, I doubt most of the fans care about? Canon in Doctor Who is sort of pointless to argue about too much, so I feel it's more important to look at what narrative goals are accomplished and what's communicated to the viewers and IMO this finale doesn't communicate very much of import.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:52
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You all are the mindwiped doctor at different points in their timeline. Sorry to break it to you.
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May 4, 2020 17:31
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I think treating the cybermen as this monster with a ton of lore but that *also* has to follow specific parameters of horror makes it basically impossible to meet fans expectations. I think generally ignoring the huge lore and just sort of focusing on small-scale stories with clear takes and allegories is better.
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May 5, 2020 16:35
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Is there some scriptwriting lingo I'm missing or does Chibnall just love to use the word ICONIC?
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May 11, 2020 20:02
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http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/andrew-cartmel-thinks-timeless-child-depletes-the-mystery-of-doctor-who-93918.htm IMO, Cartmel has bad takes.
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May 12, 2020 10:21
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I realize now that the article I saw yesterday and this one aren't the same, so I'm gonna try to find the original source. Here's the source: https://cultbox.co.uk/news/andrew-cartmel-timeless-child-backstory-depletes-the-mystery I personally think trying to put the Doctor back in the mystery box is impossible and inadvisable now, but besides that, this is the part I take particular issue here: quote:“…when I joined the show, the Doctor had become almost like a guest character in his own show. He had become inconsequential. He’d become a victim rather than the sort of powerful figure at the center of the show. And also, over the previous decades, more and more had become known about him and he was supposed to be this complete enigma but gradually that mystery had been chipped away.” It started with… He’s a Time Lord. Then there’s other Time Lords. Then he’s not even the boss Time Lord. And he could be disciplined by the Time Lords and he could be exiled to Earth and all this stuff and there were always good, solid story reasons to do those things, by which I mean they would provide you with a couple of weeks more material for your stories, but they had long-term detrimental effects because the more you did that, the less interesting the Doctor became.” I think to me, Cartmel's desire for an extremely mysterious, powerful Doctor makes for a less compelling character, and I prefer the take of the Doctor as an adventurer that had to slowly learn how to be a good person and only eventually became extraordinary through their deeds. I mean, the Hartnell/Troughton years were great fun, but we can't time-travel back to them. EDIT: That said, in an alternative universe where I was born in the UK, got really into writing and somehow made it to showrunner of Doctor Who with little to no oversight of the BBC, I'd absolutely destroy the TARDIS and mine it for at least a season of consequences.
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May 12, 2020 18:17
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Tomtrek posted:"and you are the DAAAAAAAAAAAA-LEKS!" God, that line delivery is terrible, lmao. I mean, it's fair, you gotta experiment with your lines and the one they used for the final episode was pretty good, but drat, it makes me lol.
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May 15, 2020 10:00
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Okay, I know this is old, but Elizabeth Sandifer losing her poo poo at The Timeless Children made me laugh: http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/the-timeless-child-review/ As someone who agrees that the retcon was a bad idea... pretty sure the show will survive it, eh. P.S: Reading the comments was actually better than the blog, in a surprising twist, and it led me to this take: https://doctorofcolor.tumblr.com/post/612767048411611136/white-entitlement-and-doctor-who-aka-why-i-like Which I don't think *totally* works (for this interpretation to really land for me the Doctor's memory would have to be erased after she was experimented on, not after a long career in the Time Lord's equivalent of the CIA) and this comment, which I think is basically the opposite of what Chibnall was trying to do but a fantastic way to read this episode and make it more enjoyable (to a degree, it still lacks a lot of basic beats and mostly consists of exposition): quote:The Master believes he can destroy the Doctor by revealing a load of tedious lore and then trapping her in the Tardis Wiki. The Doctor defeats this plan by realising the tedious lore doesn't matter, and escapes by overwhelming the Tardis Wiki with the force of Doctor Who's bafflingly self-contradictory canon. Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 19:31
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Astroman posted:I dunno, I find myself in agreement with her for the first time since she relegated Big Finish as "Wilderness Years" apocrypha that ended when the True Doctor Who of RTD began. Oh that quote is funny, but the "Doctor Who is OVER" tone of most of the blog seems excessive to me. Just like any long-running property with world-shaking events (or even just... bad stuff that happens) it will either be ignored, retconned or built upon depending on the reception and whether writers have a good idea of what to do with it. I'm not a writer and I certainly know how I'd both canonize it and write around it, so I'm sure people who are more creative than me can also do something like that.
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May 16, 2020 20:08
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I mean, I feel like if you read Lovecraft's writing you should have a good idea that he was a not-so-brilliant person without needing to meet him, but who am I to talk.
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May 19, 2020 20:48
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The_Doctor posted:6 shall channel 12. Eh, I think it worked fine on screen at normal speed. Also, in response to Edward Mass, I disagree that it's difficult to write a show about time travel without deifying past figures, but it's probably hard to do it with a beloved BBC property when Winston Churchill is still seen as a national hero by people of all parties in the UK.
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May 20, 2020 07:08
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Jacob Dudman's really great at impressions but he just doesn't have the timbre to properly impersonate Capaldi.
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May 20, 2020 17:22
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Nice to see Mark Gatiss say not-cursed things for once! An Adventure in Space and Time is such a fun watch too.
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May 23, 2020 19:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26UFq8RGVOs
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May 24, 2020 12:49
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I was a big fan of the young John Hurt with the toilet paper in the background. And also how he just got poo poo done when almost everybody else was arguing, lol.
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May 24, 2020 18:49
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I didn't hate eight (no pun intended) but that might be because I'm not a Big Finish regular so I don't listen to Paul McGann's voice as often as some of the people of the thread do. Twelve's impression however... was not good. Peter Capaldi's voice is pretty distinctive, and there seems to be a trend of impressionists mimicking the accent and the mannerisms but not even attempting to disguise their timbre and pitch when compared to Capaldi? And it just doesn't work for me. Still, that was something that a bunch of people did for free, and it was very fun, so I don't wanna be too critical. I'm sure everybody involved is a lovely chap!
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May 25, 2020 07:16
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Unkempt posted:It's the before Hartnell incarnations that bother people, not the extra regenerations after. Nobody seriously thought they were going to say 'Oh well, that's twelve, show's over.' I'll try to articulate what bothers me about the reveal, because it's actually several different reveals at once and I could see each one of them potentially working in isolation? 1) The Timeless Child, an alien from another universe, is the source of regeneration on Gallifrey -> while I don't really see how regeneration segues into the Time Lords becoming who they are (what Omega and Rassilon did still seems more important to me?), I think this is a perfectly fine reveal that stresses just how lovely the Time Lords are and could create some moral and ethical questions for both the Doctor and the Master. 2) The aforementioned Timeless Child is the Doctor: I don't like this because it makes the Doctor special by birth, rather than by their own actions, but I posted in this thread before a Tumblr post that convinced me that the idea isn't totally meritless: people of color have frequently been the subject, unfortunately, of brutal experiments, because they've been consistently considered a disposable, inferior category of people. By giving the Doctor this new backstory, she becomes more relatable to a certain segment of the audience that Who hasn't treated very well in the past, and dissociates herself from the Time Lord aristocratic and colonial views. I do, however, find myself still wondering if this is something that works in the long run, considering that the original Doctor was quite obviously coded as the Victorian inventor, and that the current Doctor is still white (we did see non-white Doctors this season, and that's good!) 3) The Doctor has most likely been part of the Time Lord CIA for a good chunk of her life, until she was eventually mindwiped and went back to what we know as her first life. -> I don't like this at all, in its current form. Pre-Hartnell incarnations of the Doctor could work (and were very likely intended in the Brain of Morbius), and there's way to even make post-Hartnell extra incarnations fit. But I do think it's important that, for as little as I care about canon, the Doctor doesn't just come out of the gate with the title Doctor, but instead earns it by learning to empathize with humans. Cut that aspect of the Ruth Doctor, and maybe I'd be on board with that, even though it's weird to go with that story direction not long after the show established that the Doctor was on their final life until the Time Lords intervened. 4) The Doctor has infinite regenerations -> building from what I said above, I think it's weird to go in this direction in this way, but it could have been very easy to establish that the Timeless Child was the source of the regeneration the Doc got at Trenzalore, and maybe even make her reconsider, in retrospect, whether she would have even asked, knowing that the Time Lords were torturing a child to give her those. Anyway, this is kind of ranty, but I hope I sufficiently explained why I don't like these developments. It's as if Chibnall took a whole bunch of ideas, meshed them together awkwardly, delivered them entirely through exposition, and then counted on changes to the status quo to be enough to make the fans happy. Remember when everybody thought this season would feature medieval Cybermen????!?!
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Jun 12, 2020 13:39
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Narsham posted:It’s no more unintelligible than Moffat’s “Doctor grew up in a barn in an orphanage in Outer Gallifrey” and “Doctor kidnapped the President’s daughter” additions to the canon. I dunno, I feel like those two were some pretty minor additions that can also be easily disregarded if one wants. The Timeless Child stuff is all one big plot point. But I'm gonna give it a chance, honestly (and I disagree with the doom and gloom cries... look, fiction has constantly ignored/retconned much more bizarre stuff than this... Chris Chibnall can't even begin to touch the poo poo comic books do on a yearly basis).
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Jun 12, 2020 18:17
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Voting Floater posted:I suppose the other Moffat retcon to throw in would be the confession in Heaven Sent that the Doctor left Gallifrey because he was scared, rather than because he was bored. I'm not particularly keen on that, but it's very vague and also easy to just gloss over. Honestly the two aren't necessarily contradictory anyway. The Doctor could have been scared, in a very pressing way (they're an exile from Gallifrey when starting up after all) and also bored of stuffy Gallifreyan society.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:31
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Edward Mass posted:Well, all we need is for another Time Lord to come in and clear things up OH WAIT If there is one thing I'm really hoping is that they reveal that not all Time Lords died (because come on, how did the Master even kill them all). Make all current Time Lords rogue Time Lords/sort of drifting refugees, and you can keep Gallifrey destroyed, as long as it didn't invalidate the Doctor saving all of those children* * she barely seemed to give a poo poo about that, lmao, wtf
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Jun 13, 2020 19:23
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David Tennant filtered like that looks like Karen Gillan (and Paul McGann looks like Gillian Anderson???), and Jodie looks like some chad CW actor, lmao. But also, hiring actresses without unconvential features and that would not necessarily be considered attractive by the majority of the population would be really cool and it's something I hope they consider doing when casting the next Doctor.
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Jun 21, 2020 13:11
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I think the FaceApp gender filter is a bit cursed for a bunch of reasons, and has been criticized by trans people before, although it's also been helpful for some people who had a chance to imagine themselves as the gender they weren't assigned at birth for the first time, so I guess that's at least good? Have they removed the blackface filters? I uninstalled the app the moment they did that garbage.
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Jun 21, 2020 13:25
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The_Doctor posted:Just in case of spontaneous existence failure, there is a Doctor Who thread Discord: https://discord.gg/j9S92Mj While I doubt a Doctor Who Discord would be brigaded, I'd be careful about putting link invites out in the open.
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Jun 24, 2020 13:57
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I wonder when we're gonna start getting boxsets of stories entirely set within that moment where that random Time Lord goes "NO SIR, ALL THIRTEEN".
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Jul 9, 2020 21:41
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PriorMarcus posted:Isn't the Valeyard clone-Ten in the comics? If you count the audios he's got at least three separate origins, I think?
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Jul 11, 2020 12:03
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Weirdly enough, I remember the Sherlock episode being billed as the "Jimmy Saville" episode, so I felt weirdly relieved when it turned out that Jones was just a serial killer. Also, Sherlock season 4's finale was so bad it took me a while to process that it was really happening. The Moffat giveth, the Moffat taketh.
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Jul 11, 2020 12:28
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I genuinely don't understand why the animated reconstructions look so awful.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:09
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Christopher Ecclestone is doing Big Finish!!!! https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=christopher-eccleston-big-finish Never thought I'd see the day!!!
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Aug 9, 2020 16:05
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Timby posted:One day people will spell his last name correctly. Eh, typos happen. Glad you found something important to focus on though!
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Aug 9, 2020 18:07
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The_Doctor posted:His sole Who tv appearance, he resolutely wasn’t evil. He definitely was, however, hungry like the wolf.
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Aug 11, 2020 19:32
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I can understand the quippiness being tiring, but wow, did the classic show have *terrible* *TERRIBLE* pacing. Moffat was probably drunk and unprofessional when he made fun of it, but he was absolutely right about that. EDIT: To avoid double-posting, the Doctor Who YouTube channel has been publishing these recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uk32Sk5ma0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNqusv6VbD4 Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 12:39
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 09:30 |
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I don't remember a single First Doctor story in which you couldn't cut at least a couple of episodes.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:19
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