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Which season should the next animated reconstruction be from? This poll is closed. |
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| Season 1 (Marco Polo) |
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13 | 18.57% |
| Season 2 (The Crusade) |
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1 | 1.43% |
| Season 3 (Galaxy 4/The Myth Makers/The Daleks' Master Plan/The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve/The Celestial Toymaker/The Savages) |
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25 | 35.71% |
| Season 4 (The Smugglers/The Highlanders/The Underwater Menace/The Evil of the Daleks) |
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16 | 22.86% |
| Season 5 (The Abominable Snowmen/The Web of Fear/The Wheel in Space) |
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11 | 15.71% |
| Season 6 (The Space Pirates) |
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4 | 5.71% |
| Total: | 70 votes | ||
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People keep saying "oh it'll just be memory holed by the next showrunner" like that's pretty much a given, when in reality it's nowhere near guaranteed. Meanwhile, we're stuck with Chibnall's stupid retcon that absolutely craps on the past history of the show and ruins what made the character of the Doctor special for a lot of people.
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Mar 10, 2020 18:37
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Bicyclops posted:If they run with it as an ongoing thing that they constantly bring up, it's going to be bad. That's kind of my point, it's not necessarily a given that the next person to run the show is gonna go "well that's stupid" and retcon it. I understand that people want to downplay it as not being that big of a deal because they otherwise enjoyed the season or whatever, but it's still a dumb idea that for a lot of people retroactively spoiled their enjoyment of the show. It's not as bad as the last season of Game of Thrones in that regard, but it's still pretty loving dumb.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:01
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ConanThe3rd posted:Honestly I'm more gaulled by the BBC's rank arrogance than anything else. Just like they did in the 1980s, the Beeb has apparently stopped giving a poo poo about the show. If they did, they would have fired Moffat when it was clear he was loving up the show's production run. That's what makes me wonder at times if it's still the big money earner for the Beeb everyone says it is (I'm sure they're still making bank on DW licensed merch, though).
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Mar 10, 2020 19:31
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Burkion posted:the BBC has never made money on Who I vaguely remember reading something about how they make money on DW via licensing and overseas distribution and whatnot, but they can't reallocate it back to DW specifically, it has to go into their general funding for all their programs. So it's good to have it around as long as that keeps happening, but I'm starting to wonder if that is still the case, given that the ratings are dropping and they aren't hitting the "social media highs" of the Tennant/Smith salad days.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:59
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2house2fly posted:Oh lord they're going to reveal the exact circumstances that led to the Doctor being mind-wiped and regenerating into the person we think of as "the Doctor" aren't they Man, imagine being a kid and stumbling upon this version of DW. "A bored alien aristocrat rebelling against their stuffy and regimented society to have adventures and make new pals? gently caress that, here's how the Doctor was really a super secret agent who got their memories erased and who also just happened to be the being who gave birth to the society they supposedly ran away from in the first place. That's way cooler, isn't it, kids?  " -- Chris "Cyberwoman" Chibnall, probably
Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Mar 11, 2020 |
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Mar 11, 2020 01:52
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Khanstant posted:Why do people poo poo on Moffat? Aren't all the best Doctor Who seasons under his reign? It was Moffat's run that caused me to finally give up on the revived series, if that gives you any indication as to my opinion of his time on the show. 
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Mar 11, 2020 18:58
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We were all excited for Moffat's run because he wrote some really good stuff for Eccleston (I am not as enamored of the stuff he wrote for Tennant as others, mainly because I still don't get how "Blink", an episode that barely features the Doctor, was somehow people's go-to episode to introduce new fans to the series). I was only familiar with Moffat through the "Curse of Fatal Death" skit, which I liked well enough, and an episode or two of "Coupling", which I didn't care for because it was just basically "Friends, but British" (and I'd rather be dragged naked through broken glass than watch an episode of "Friends"). Then the adult Amy Pond showed up on the screen and within a few episodes I was completely sick of her. Ditto for Rory (who I otherwise liked as a character) and his constant pining for a rather emotionally manipulative woman who only paid him attention when it looked like he might be losing interest in her. Their relationship was stock Hollywood bullshit "two people who are completely wrong for each other somehow wind up happily together anyways" and the fact that the whole "River Song origins" stuff got tied into them was even stupider. And don't even get me started on the whole "Clara is the most important girl in the universe" thing.
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Mar 11, 2020 19:21
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The difference between the 7th Doctor being Merlin and whatever nonsense Chibnall came up with is that the Merlin thing A)took place in another dimension and B)was posited as a potential future version of the Doctor (along the same lines as The Watcher, The Valeyard, and The Curator). "Future version of the Doctor" is fine because that's easily ignored if people who work on the show later decide they don't want to go down that road. Whereas Chibnall explicitly retconned the Doctor's origins, changing the character from a bored near-immortal alien who craved adventure into some super duper secret being who basically created the Time Lords (or whatever the gently caress). It's not hard to see why people who like the character's original origin story might be just a bit upset. Also I'll take a duff episode of the old series over a duff episode of the new series any day, because at least the old series has that "don't knock over the cardboard sets" charm to it. The new series is very slick and polished, but unfortunately so is everything else these days, so the writing has to be really good, or else it's just slick and polished and boring.
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Mar 12, 2020 06:09
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Rochallor posted:Yeah, it's not bad because it's a retcon, it's bad because it's a retcon that makes things less interesting. JNT was very smart when he shot down Cartmel's ideas for delving deeper into the Doctor's backstory during the McCoy era. It's much better if all we know about the Doctor is that the character wanders through time and space having adventures, after having left the boring bureaucratic "do nothing but observe" society of the Time Lords. If they had actually established that the Doctor was actually a contemporary of Rassilon and/or Omega it would have been completely stupid. Just like saying the Doctor is actually a super duper secret being that created the Time Lords in the first place is also completely stupid.
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Mar 12, 2020 07:40
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I'd honestly be okay if they, say, cast someone as a young One and made a point about how maybe he snuck out of Gallifrey here and there before he got old and left it for good with Susan. Or if they decided to show us the Doctor family as new characters, as we know they exist but they're a blank slate in terms of characterization. It's why I say that elevated fanboys shouldn't be running the show. Back in the day, working on DW was just another gig for the producers, script editors, and writers. As the show went on it was at times considered a very prestigious gig, but it was still just another job. With perhaps the exception of the Cartmel era (which was tempered by JNT reining in their more excessive ideas about the Doctor's history), the bulk of the people that worked on DW during the show's original run were not fanboys, they were just people working a job. Nowadays, things are very different at the Beeb, and the showrunners on DW (and several other shows, I'm sure) thus far have all been elevated fanboys with apparently more ideas than sense. And since they're in charge of everything about the show, and there's nobody to talk them out of pursuing some particularly dumb flights of fancy (or in this case, telling them that actually putting their personal DW fanfic on screen is a very bad idea)...well, the results are pretty evident.
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Mar 12, 2020 16:36
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I think we can safely say now that Chibnall was Always Bad, and that whatever show he worked on that everyone loved (Broadchurch) was the exception that proved the rule.
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Mar 13, 2020 01:16
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2house2fly posted:Don't know what everyone saw in that, to be honest. The plot was mostly "person who seems like a paedophile is actually misunderstood" and then the killer just phoned the cops up to confess at the end. It seemed mostly to be a way to show women crying a lot on the TV Speaking of Chibnall's portrayal of women, it might be overly cynical of me, but while the casting of the show (first female Doctor, a very racially diverse cast) is really quite admirable on the surface...there are times I wonder if it was also done as an easy way for Chibnall to deflect criticism of bad writing/boring stories/very sketchy political ideas. In sort of a Ghostbusters 2016 "if you don't like the show, you're probably just a racist/sexist chud" sort of way. The general opinion seems to be that while people love Jodie as the Doctor, they also feel her particular Doctor hasn't been very well served by the writing thus far, not just in terms of stories, but in terms of who her Doctor is supposed to be. I freely admit this may just be me being overly cynical, but I don't really get the sense that Chibnall is trying to give her Doctor her own personality, and is relying largely on Jodie's charisma to carry the role forward while using "it's the first female Doctor" as a shield against criticism of how bad his tenure on the show has been thus far.
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Mar 13, 2020 04:41
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair to Chibnall, based on the very little public speaking he's done on the subject, his mindset seemed to be very much,"I'm doing it because people who agree it would be perfectly fine for the Doctor to be a woman are always coming up with excuses for why it can't be done NOW! and I don't want to do the same", and he'd worked with Jodie before and knew she was a good actor so why not offer her the role? As I say, that may just be me being overly cynical. Also I want to reiterate that I am 100% in favor of the casting choices, I just have these nagging doubts that he might have had other reasons beyond just wanting to shake things up.
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Mar 13, 2020 05:03
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Astroman posted:You keep saying this, and I know you don't like Moffat, but do you not even like RTD? Cause he was as fanboy as they come. Let me put it like this: I think Eccleston's run (apart from a few dud moments here and there) was great. I would have loved a full season of Nine/Rose/Jack (and I say this as someone who got pretty tired of the Ten/Rose "will they/won't they" thing). And if RTD had left the show at the end of Eccleston's season, I'd be perfectly happy saying he did a really great job bringing the show back. Tennant's run, however...well, I think that's where RTD really started to disappear up his own backside (and I'd go so far as to say he pretty much phoned it in a lot of the time). That said, he delivered some really great moments, but that was RTD's problem: as Tennant's run went on, he seemed really focused on delivering moments rather than a cohesive story. I would say that by the time RTD left, he'd very much overstayed his welcome. WIth all that said, though, he was responsible for some really good stuff: the creation of the revival series' best companions, namely Donna and her granddad Wilf. I also thought he did a great job bringing back Davros, and the moment Professor Yana becomes the Master again is probably one of the greatest reveals of the series ever. But yeah, RTD overall had a lot of duff episodes during his run and I'd say he did his legacy on the show more harm than good the longer he stayed. quote:Thay would mean you don't like any DW since '89 or maybe '96, at which point you're really looking for them to do a totally different show than they've done the past 15 years. I'll freely admit that I think the classic series is the superior series for a variety of reasons. That said, though, I did like the majority of Eccleston's run, there were some Tennant episodes I quite liked, and to give Moffat his due, I really enjoyed the 50th anniversary episode (as well as the mini-episode where Eight regenerates into the War Doctor, which I appreciated that he wanted to get all the Doctors' regenerations finally filmed). Rochallor posted:Even if casting of women and PoC is done for deeply cynical reasons, it still gives acting opportunities to them and serves as a valuable form of representation. Much as I loathe Chibnall, he would need to gently caress up hard to turn casting Whitaker, Cole, and Gill into a net negative, and the show has come nowhere close to that. Yeah, I definitely don't want to come across as "NO WOMAN IS MY DOCTOR  ", I'm perfectly fine with Jodie being cast in the role. Really, I never think any of the actual actors playing the Doctor are bad, it's just the writing does them no favors. And I think the Jo Martin thing kind of bothers me because it felt like Chibnall going "look, we cast a black woman as the Doctor" like he was checking off a to do list, giving him a sort of veneer of "diversity" without actually having to cast a black woman in the lead role (and it also feels like sort of giving a future showrunner a way to "avoid controversy" by not actually having to do that casting, because they can just go "well we've already done that before").
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Mar 13, 2020 07:37
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Yannick_B posted:Andrew Ellard, a working script-editor usually does pretty good "tweet-notes" where he tackles scripts (from Who and other nerd stuff) from his professional pov "rewrites" https://twitter.com/ellardent/status/1238591110622203905?s=20 Gosh, that idea of his sure sounds familiar...
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Mar 14, 2020 02:25
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The Robert Holmes stuff didn't ruin the show because it depicted the Time Lords as stodgy non-interventionists stuck in their ways and content to observe. Which is why the Doctor said he originally left Gallifrey in the first place, because of the desire to explore and make new discoveries. The Chibnall thing fundamentally alters the character of the Doctor, as has been stated numerous times by others previously, from "person who became special because of their deeds and heroic acts" to "person who was special from birth". There's a slight difference between being upset/disappointed about that, and grumbling about "the Time Lords were initially depicted as godlike beings but are actually a bunch of stodgy old farts".
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Mar 14, 2020 20:03
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Astroman posted:While I hate the changes, you do have a point. For example I and most of this thread hated the Rose/10 stuff, but for the vast majority of fandom that was their favorite era, Rose is their favorite companion, and 10 is their favorite Doctor. They gladly ship Rose and 10 1/2 living in Pete's World. So just because we and a lot of the grognards on youtube hate it, doesn't mean it won't be accepted. That's what I mean when I say we shouldn't take "oh the next showrunner will just ignore that" as a given. Sure, it's possible that the next showrunner will ignore it or retcon it themselves. It's also possible the next showrunner will go "that's such good poo poo" snd expand upon it. We won't know until it happens, but people shouldn't be so quick to push "the next showrunner" as a quick way to dismiss complaints.
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Mar 15, 2020 02:16
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair, Jack would also be flirting with a 59-year-old Peri. Hell, same 
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Mar 27, 2020 19:15
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The_Doctor posted:We still don’t know who wrote the Doctor in the cupboard selfie film. I'm confident The Doctor ad-libbed it herself
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Apr 7, 2020 22:45
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As much as I disliked Moffat's run on DW, I always give the man credit for three things: 1. Encouraging NuWho actors to head over to Big Finish 2. Bringing back Paul McGann so they could film the 8th Doctor's regeneration 3. The Day of the Doctor And now I have to give him credit for a fourth thing, with this story. . As others have already said, he captured 13's voice far better in one story than her showrunner has managed to. And it was a nice little story that I think kids would especially enjoy. 
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Apr 9, 2020 18:28
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The_Doctor posted:Lol, unfinished copy. "Our newest production stars the legendary [ACTOR'S NAME]. Accompanying him on this amazing adventure are the dazzlingly charming [ACTOR'S NAME] and the wonderfully witty [ACTOR'S NAME]. In this story, [CHARACTERS] go to [PLANET] and discover that [ALIEN RACE] are trying to steal [PLOT DEVICE]. But are they really the ones behind the plan to steal [MACGUFFIN]...or does the sinister [RECURRING VILLAIN] have something to do with it? Look for our [HYPERBOLIC PHRASE] yet when it's released on [RELEASE DATE]!"
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Apr 29, 2020 17:10
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You know, as much as I disliked Moffat's era, I have to admit the man can make me chuckle at times.
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Apr 30, 2020 16:46
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The_Doctor posted:For all his ego, he’s very self-aware and self-deprecating. I'll say it again: I really liked that he wanted to have all the Doctor's regenerations filmed, so he brought Paul McGann back as Eight in a webisode just for that purpose, AND he made all the Eighth Doctor's Big Finish companions series canon ones to boot (and he always encourages the people who appear on the revived series to go work for Big Finish, as well). That's the mark of a true fan.
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May 2, 2020 02:24
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I really do think that if they'd have had the equivalent of a Robert Holmes working as script editor (or conversely, the equivalent of a Philip Hinchcliffe handling production duties), both RTD's and Moffat's runs on the show would have been absolutely stellar. They just needed someone of equal standing to rein in their dumber impulses and weed out the sillier ideas.
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May 2, 2020 03:35
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Along those lines, I liked the story Sophie Aldred told: one day she ran into Christopher Eccleston (I think it was outside the BBC) shortly after he'd left the series, and at first he was polite to her because he thought she was just another fan. But when she revealed that she'd played Ace on the original series, he got all excited and was swapping stories with her about their respective times on the show (she'd also tried to convince him to do conventions but he was reluctant to do so at the time).
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May 2, 2020 04:20
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The_Doctor posted:Curse of Fenric? Remembrance of the Daleks? The Daleks, The Time Meddler, Tomb of the Cybermen, The Web of Fear, Inferno, The Mind of Evil, The Daemons, The Ark in Space, Genesis of the Daleks, The Robots of Death, The Ribos Operation, City of Death, Earthshock, The Caves of Androzani, Vengeance on Varos, Revelation of the Daleks (since you'd already listed some Seventh Doctor stories).
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May 2, 2020 20:33
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CommonShore posted:I'm TOTALLY doing Space Museum next. Someone pick a Troughton story for me after that. I'd prefer one that's still mostly extant - not in the mood for a reconstruction/audio. The Web of Fear, it's only missing one episode IIRC (which was reconstructed when they released it), and it's a really good "base under siege" story.
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May 3, 2020 18:06
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marktheando posted:It was kind of an rear end in a top hat move for the Doctor to drop her friends off on earth right before they would have to go into lockdown, now that I think about it. Don't worry, they'll just wander down the street and hang out with one of the many other Doctors that apparently now populate the Earth.
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May 4, 2020 17:20
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The_Doctor posted:God that idea is so stupid, it still annoys me. My only hope is it’s all a bluff, and that’s not it at all. The worst part is a lot of people have the hope that whoever takes over from Chibnall is gonna go "yeah, that idea was stupid, let's retcon/disregard it"...when it's equally just as possible that they'll go "gently caress yeah, that idea was cool, let's expand upon it".
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May 4, 2020 17:34
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CommonShore posted:I'm still putting my name out there as the next showrunner. I have a companion idea that hasn't quite been done yet, but other than that I'll hire an executive producer for the maths stuff, do more sound stage episodes to keep content coming out, and get good science fiction authors to pitch plot ideas. I'll be your script editor, and I promise to be more like Robert Holmes or Terrance Dicks, instead of Eric Saward.
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May 4, 2020 18:10
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As script editor, my edict for Cybermen stories will be "They have to be at least as good as The Invasion"
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May 5, 2020 04:25
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CommonShore posted:And in the same respect the Sontarans must not be used as 3rd tier Daleks. The Sontarans differ from the Daleks in that, while they both view other races as inferior, the Daleks have basically been established as "space Nazis" who are obsessed with racial purity. While the Sontarans are more the equivalent of your old-time colonial powers, locked in a seemingly eternal war with a rival power and focused on conquest for the glory of their empire (you could also make a parallel between the Sontarans/Rutans and the US/Soviets during the Cold War, except they didn't bother with proxy wars and just went straight for direct conflict instead).
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May 5, 2020 16:42
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Been playing No Man's Sky, and while doing exploration things and grinding up resources in the game, I've been alternating between listening to the Hitchhiker's Guide radio series and the BBC Audio releases of the missing DW stories. Makes for a quite chill and relaxing evening.
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May 7, 2020 11:53
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/andrew-cartmel-thinks-timeless-child-depletes-the-mystery-of-doctor-who-93918.htm Eh, I think he actually makes several good points (though the BBC would never let him get rid of the sonic screwdriver, because I'm sure they make bank on merchandising it).
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May 12, 2020 17:01
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Astroman posted:I dunno, I find myself in agreement with her for the first time since she relegated Big Finish as "Wilderness Years" apocrypha that ended when the True Doctor Who of RTD began. I particularly liked this bit: quote:Throughout the series I’ve been asking who this is for. Now we have our answer: Series 12 of Doctor Who is a lengthy missive to Ian Levine, groveling at his feet and begging him to come back. “I’ll do anything. I’ll do a fourth R of the Daleks story. I’ll bring back the block-headed Cybermen. I’ll confirm the Morbius Doctors. Just come back.” There’s nothing else here. No other message or insight into the world. Just fanwank for the sake of fanwank. Big revelations about lore that come down to “the fan favorite bits are absolutely the most important things in the series and we promise to never actually challenge or disrupt you in any way.” Finally, we can all see what The Rise of Skywalker would have looked like on a lovely BBC budget.
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May 16, 2020 21:12
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Harlock posted:It's been kind of a bummer that the Tardis during Jodie's era has seemed largely irrelevant and that the group spends next to no time inside. To be fair, it was much the same during McCoy's run, too.
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May 18, 2020 05:51
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Chokes McGee posted:Six, War, and Lucie and no I don't care she's not in the list Along those lines: Two, Four, Jamie, and Romana I (who is not in the list)
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May 21, 2020 02:40
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The_Doctor posted:Some top My favorite Ainley story is about how, as soon as he'd found out Sophie Aldred played cricket, he instantly became her friend for life  I believe he'd been left some money by his father, so he didn't need to work very much, and so he could freely indulge his two biggest hobbies and enjoyments in life: playing cricket and being The Master. 
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Jun 5, 2020 04:47
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Chokes McGee posted:Being the Master isn't a hobby, it's just something that comes naturally. Mwa ha. MWA ha ha. I'm not the world's biggest NuWho fan, but the buildup to the Master's return in Utopia, featuring that signature Ainley cackle, is by far one of my favorite DW moments of all time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI_RB2URZPY
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Jun 5, 2020 07:45
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*dashes into the room, wearing a hat with a "PRESS" tag stuck in the hatband, and mashes the numbers on the nearest landline phone, speaking excitedly and out of breath* "Get me the chief! Chief? You won't believe what I just heard...Tom Baker is going to be leaving Doctor Who at the end of his seventh season! ...what? No, I haven't been drinking! Get this to the top of the front page, it's national--no, international news! ...what do you mean, do I know what year it is?"
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Jun 11, 2020 01:24
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