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ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011




Doom is one of the cornerstones of first-person shooters. Released in 1993 by id Software and building off its predecessor Wolfenstein 3D, Doom practically invented the genre as we know it with its bloody, chunky and satisfying action, speedy pace, and a savvy marketing plan to release its first levels as shareware. With Doom Eternal releasing on the day this thread begins, it's as good a time as ever to look back on the beloved original and see how well it holds up now.

----------------

The Story:
You are Doomguy - or at least, a guy in Doom - a space marine who's been sent to Mars where the forces of Hell have appeared and are in need of getting chainsawed. Why isn't important, so get to shootin'!

(According to Wikipedia: "In the future, the player character (an unnamed space marine) has been punitively posted to Mars after assaulting a superior officer, who ordered his unit to fire on civilians. The space marines act as security for the Union Aerospace Corporation's radioactive waste facilities, which are used by the military to perform secret experiments with teleportation by creating gateways between the two moons of Mars, Phobos and Deimos. Three years later, Deimos disappears entirely and "something fraggin' evil" starts pouring out of the teleporter gateways, killing or possessing all personnel. The Martian marine unit is dispatched to investigate, with the player character left to guard the perimeter with only a pistol while the rest of the group proceeds inside the base and is killed. Being unable to pilot the shuttle off of Phobos by himself, he realizes that the only way to escape is to go inside and fight his way through the complexes of the moon base.")

----------------

The LP:
JigglyJacob takes the lead in this first of a series of Doom LPs (sorry, no Doom 3), with myself (ThornBrain) and TorpidTypist joining him on co-commentary. This will be an All Secrets run, and Jacob is technically playing Ultimate Doom, which contains an additional fourth episode.

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ThornBrain fucked around with this message at 19:03 on May 8, 2020

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Doc M
Jan 6, 2011

I enjoy metal because of its dark, creepy, intense aesthetic.




I'm ready for some ripping and/or tearing.

edit: Dunking on Bethesda is always a great time and I'm all for it, but their (well, Nerve Software's) recent ports of Doom have been fixed completely and are actually really good now. Proper aspect ratio, correct music and sound, correct lighting, 60 fps, no stupid Bethesda.net login requirements, add-on support (albeit limited on consoles), the works. They're now totally worth picking up.

Doc M fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Mar 20, 2020

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Playing on HMP? Shameful.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014


The big thing that makes shotgun guys dangerous is that they're hitscan weapons, so it is impossible to dodge their shots after they're fired the way you can with Imp fireballs.

This isn't so bad when you're facing them head on, because dodging can spoil their aim before they shoot, but situations like at the end of the video where they open up on you from nowhere can really ruin your day.

Doc M
Jan 6, 2011

I enjoy metal because of its dark, creepy, intense aesthetic.




anilEhilated posted:

Playing on HMP? Shameful.
I have to play Eternal on HMP because Ultraviolence in that game is about ten times harder than it was in Doom 2016

klafbang
Nov 18, 2009


Clapping Larry

Doom has a surprisingly long intro story in the README file that shipped with it.

The only correct sound of Doom's music is, of course, the Sound Blaster version, but if you want something fancier, the MT32 version is really nice. Some nerds online made a LP recording of it that LGR reviewed recently.

The Swastika removal is not recent but happened in one of the early versions (it was there in 1.2 but not in 1.666, so it must have been removed there or in 1.4). It would not have been allowed in Germany otherwise. The very first secret you took (to get into the outside yard) was also not there is early versions.

While a lot of things in Doom are random (well, pseudo random; Doom has a list of 256 "random" numbers it cycles thru for all its randomness), gibbing is not one of them. Gibbing happens with overkill, i.e., when you hurt a monster at least twice its initial health. That's why it is easier to gib the regular zombies (called former humans in the aforementioned README) than most other enemies, especially with barrels or the rocket launcher.

Roluth
Apr 22, 2014


Not quite the original FPS, but DOOM is the one that set the standards for everything that was to come. Still has an active modding community to this day, many of them in vanilla-ish maps! Look up Doomworld for maps, PrBoom+ and GZDoom for source ports, and away you go.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Doc M posted:

I have to play Eternal on HMP because Ultraviolence in that game is about ten times harder than it was in Doom 2016
Yeah, but this is Doom 1, it doesn't get tricky until E4.

Anyway, since ranged combat was mentioned: while it is true your shotgun doubles as your sniper rifle, there is one weapon that's better at it and that is the chaingun. Thing is, while it does have a bullet scatter, that spread applies only from the second shot onwards: the first two bullets (one click/press) fired will always hit the crosshair/middle of the screen. If you keep tapping Fire instead of holding the button down, you get a gatling sniper rifle.

Roluth posted:

Not quite the original FPS, but DOOM is the one that set the standards for everything that was to come. Still has an active modding community to this day, many of them in vanilla-ish maps! Look up Doomworld for maps, PrBoom+ and GZDoom for source ports, and away you go.
There actually is a goon mod-of-the-month club. The caveat with user-made WADs is that since the scene has been going on for over 25 years, most of them are a lot harder than vanilla Doom since people just keep playing the game and getting better at it.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Mar 20, 2020

Doc M
Jan 6, 2011

I enjoy metal because of its dark, creepy, intense aesthetic.




anilEhilated posted:

Yeah, but this is Doom 1, it doesn't get tricky until E4.
Oh, absolutely. I was just saying.

I never beat Thy Flesh Consumed on Ultraviolence, although I did get all the way to E4M6 so I probably could've done the rest if I had bothered.

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.


Grimey Drawer

The music in that secret level sounded more like an accordion to me.

This game was the rest of my childhood along with the Sierra and Lucasarts adventure games. I enjoyed messing with level and sound WADs, but my favorite thing to do was to use DeHackED to modify some of the executable. I could probably do more with it if I bothered to study what was going on better, but I did things like make Imp fireballs shootable, reduce all of the frames of every weapon's firing animation to the minimum duration so the shotgun fires at about the speed of the chaingun, and reduce the speed of rockets so I could stand at one end of a room, unload all of my rockets, then run ahead of them and open a door to let the enemies inside have a room full of explosions.

I also set the final death frame for every enemy from "corpse sprite" to "walk sprite" so any enemy that died became a ghost with no physical presence but full attack capability. Nightmare mode had nothing on that.

Elfface
Nov 14, 2010

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH

I'll contribute to midi music discussion by saying that I think the bit called out as a harmonicacwas actually more like an accordion.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Slippery Tilde

klafbang posted:

Doom has a surprisingly long intro story in the README file that shipped with it.

The original game design was way, way more complex and story intensive than the final game ended up being: https://5years.doomworld.com/doombible/doombible.pdf
Highlights of cut content included a much bigger story, multiple playable characters and an emphasis on co-op, and less abstract level design. Good thing they realised the scope creep before it killed the game off.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014


For anyone who hasn't read it, Masters Of Doom is a very good telling of the story of ID Software's early days up until after Romero left. The creation of DooM is, of course, the centerpoint of the story.

Fabulousity
Dec 29, 2008

= (Displacement through a hetero medium) / Time


Nap Ghost

klafbang posted:

Doom has a surprisingly long intro story in the README file that shipped with it.

The only correct sound of Doom's music is, of course, the Sound Blaster version, but if you want something fancier, the MT32 version is really nice. Some nerds online made a LP recording of it that LGR reviewed recently.

The Swastika removal is not recent but happened in one of the early versions (it was there in 1.2 but not in 1.666, so it must have been removed there or in 1.4). It would not have been allowed in Germany otherwise. The very first secret you took (to get into the outside yard) was also not there is early versions.

While a lot of things in Doom are random (well, pseudo random; Doom has a list of 256 "random" numbers it cycles thru for all its randomness), gibbing is not one of them. Gibbing happens with overkill, i.e., when you hurt a monster at least twice its initial health. That's why it is easier to gib the regular zombies (called former humans in the aforementioned README) than most other enemies, especially with barrels or the rocket launcher.

You're right, the E1M4 swastika was in the game from initial release until patch 1.4 changed the shape. John Romero's comments suggest it was put in as wink to Wolfenstein and was later removed due to complaints. The E1M1 secret door to the yard was added with version 1.9 which was released with Ultimate Doom.

Mandatory link to Decino's YT channel which has a lot of interesting videos reviewing the technical aspects of how Doom works: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ...50m6NVn0ix5v8RQ The one on how Doom handles random number generation is really cool.

Is this LP going to include Sigil?

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007

Nope.


You mentioned the meme about running Doom on literally everything, here's one that always cracks me up. I can't imagine it's real but it's still fantastic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRMpNA86e8Q

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Nidoking posted:

I enjoyed messing with level and sound WADs, but my favorite thing to do was to use DeHackED to modify some of the executable. I could probably do more with it if I bothered to study what was going on better, but I did things like make Imp fireballs shootable, reduce all of the frames of every weapon's firing animation to the minimum duration so the shotgun fires at about the speed of the chaingun, and reduce the speed of rockets so I could stand at one end of a room, unload all of my rockets, then run ahead of them and open a door to let the enemies inside have a room full of explosions.
I may have spent more time loving around with DeHackEd than playing any other single game. Some of my favourites that I remember:
  • Remove all unnecessary frames of weapon animation and set the remaining frame duration to 1 for super-fast, non-stop firing.
  • Replace bullet puffs and blood splats with rocket explosions. Combine with the above to crash the game with too much fireball!
  • Splice the Pain Elemental "spawn Lost Soul" frame into the Cyberdermon's attack animation, replace its sprite with the Cyberdemon's attack, replace all Lost Soul sprites with Rockets, and give the lost soul the Rocket explosion as a close attack. Now the Cyberdemon fires heat-seeking rockets.
  • Switch the Thing Number of Bullet Ammo and the Trooper Corpse╣, then replace the Trooper Corpse with a living Trooper, remove its attack action and set it to semi-transparent. Splice the Arch-vile check-for-corpse frame into its walk animation and replace its sprite with the appropriate Trooper walk frame. Edit the Arch-vile Revive animation to make it die when finished and replace its sprites with the Trooper dying. Now when you kill a Trooper it becomes a ghost and walks around until it finds a body to possess. If that body is its own or another Trooper, the process repeats.
There may be easier ways to do some of those but I had to figure it all out on my own because I had no internet.

╣ This prevents intentionally placed bullet ammo from being replaced with ghosts. Somehow.


Fabulousity posted:

You're right, the E1M4 swastika was in the game from initial release until patch 1.4 changed the shape. John Romero's comments suggest it was put in as wink to Wolfenstein and was later removed due to complaints.
IIRC it made it into the novelisation.

an_mutt
Sep 29, 2010

I was,
I am,
and I remain a soldier!

Sworn to dedicate my heart and soul to the restoration of human kind!



Regarding goofy yet great midi music in this game, I wanna point out that the community has not only been pumping out 25+ years of great map content, but also some really loving banging midi tunes made by a number of community members:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCrjTlvt8p0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8M7_QM_Q6s

There are hours and hours of this stuff across dozens of WADs, it's awesome.


Nidoking posted:

I did things like make Imp fireballs shootable, [...] and reduce the speed of rockets so I could stand at one end of a room, unload all of my rockets, then run ahead of them and open a door to let the enemies inside have a room full of explosions.

I also set the final death frame for every enemy from "corpse sprite" to "walk sprite" so any enemy that died became a ghost with no physical presence but full attack capability. Nightmare mode had nothing on that.


Tiggum posted:

Some of my favourites that I remember:
[*]Replace bullet puffs and blood splats with rocket explosions. Combine with the above to crash the game with too much fireball!
[*]Splice the Pain Elemental "spawn Lost Soul" frame into the Cyberdermon's attack animation, replace its sprite with the Cyberdemon's attack, replace all Lost Soul sprites with Rockets, and give the lost soul the Rocket explosion as a close attack. Now the Cyberdemon fires heat-seeking rockets.
[*]Switch the Thing Number of Bullet Ammo and the Trooper Corpse╣, then replace the Trooper Corpse with a living Trooper, remove its attack action and set it to semi-transparent. Splice the Arch-vile check-for-corpse frame into its walk animation and replace its sprite with the appropriate Trooper walk frame. Edit the Arch-vile Revive animation to make it die when finished and replace its sprites with the Trooper dying. Now when you kill a Trooper it becomes a ghost and walks around until it finds a body to possess. If that body is its own or another Trooper, the process repeats.[/list]
There may be easier ways to do some of those but I had to figure it all out on my own because I had no internet.

╣ This prevents intentionally placed bullet ammo from being replaced with ghosts. Somehow.

IIRC it made it into the novelisation.
I've just started learning how to use DeHacked and . I have a lot of cool poo poo to try and figure out and to play with.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

The whole Ancient Aliens soundtrack is worth listening to, it's just awesome. Basically the Doom fandom is dedicated as hell and the game is still very much alive thanks to that.

e: VVV And yes, plenty of MIDI covers of varying quality for rock and metal songs too.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 21, 2020

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

an_mutt posted:

Regarding goofy yet great midi music in this game, I wanna point out that the community has not only been pumping out 25+ years of great map content, but also some really loving banging midi tunes made by a number of community members:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCrjTlvt8p0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8M7_QM_Q6s

There are hours and hours of this stuff across dozens of WADs, it's awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkjyK5Yrows

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

This avatar helped buy Lowtax a new back.



Beartaco posted:

You mentioned the meme about running Doom on literally everything, here's one that always cracks me up. I can't imagine it's real but it's still fantastic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRMpNA86e8Q
He's got a toaster in his passenger seat while he's doing the "mod". Probably his next "mod" project.

Doc M
Jan 6, 2011

I enjoy metal because of its dark, creepy, intense aesthetic.




Nidoking posted:

The music in that secret level sounded more like an accordion to me.
Someone needs to ask "Weird Al" Yankovic to make a polka medley of Doom music.

Andyzero
May 22, 2009

I used to spoil, I'm sorry.

In regards to Doom music resembling other metal songs at the time....

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Doom_music

Yes.

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010


Oh man. This makes me want to share some of my favorite Mods and WADs. I use GZDoom to run these.

Epic 2 is a 32 map WAD that uses assets from another Doom-like FPS called Powerslave. Powerslave was heavily Egyptian themed, and Epic 2 gives it a Stargate style Space Egypt twist as you work through the later maps of the WAD. This combines interestingly with the following two mods:

Nazis V2 is the obligatory Wolfenstein in Doom mod. It replaces all of the guns with WW2 style pistols, machine guns, rifles and shotguns. Your fist is replaced with a shovel. All of the enemies are replaced with Wolfenstein style enemies, though the enemy list goes beyond what was available in standard Wolf3D to allow for an expanded roster of Nazi's to shoot in the face. In another interesting departure from classic Doom, neither your bullets or enemy bullets are "hitscan", that is just pointing and pulling the trigger don't guarantee a hit. You'll have to lead your target, and it also give you a chance to dodge attacks, turning the game almost into a bullet-hell shooter. Combining this mod with The map-pack above results in what almost feels like playing through an Indiana Jones FPS.

Metroid Dreadnought almost has to be seen to be believed. The mad genius behind this mod basically ported the gameplay of Metroid Prime into the Doom Engine, complete with almost all of the suit and power beam upgrades. (And yes, the game freezes and plays the "You got an upgrade" ditty every time you find one. And also yes, you can skip it.) It boasts an impressive arsenal of different beam types and missile types, has a morph ball mode that does change your size, shifts you to a third person camera, and allows you to go places the Doomguy just can't, and lets you find double jump and space jump functionality. There's just one problem with this mod: it's been abandoned since 2014 and never got any maps or enemy packs, which greatly limits the amount of fun you can have with it. Samus's movement abilities can also break the intended difficulty of maps super hard, often allowing you to skip straight to the end. Epic 2 is the closest mapset I have found that matches the aesthetic of the Metroid series, without being broken too easily by the abilities the mod grants you.

*EDIT* Apparently there was an update in September of last year that lets it work with newer versions of GZDoom and also adds some additional functionality and possibly some levels? Just noticed and haven't messed with it. This appears to be the work of someone other than the original author.

Anyone else have any fun mod combinations and map packs?

RickVoid fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Mar 24, 2020

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Slippery Tilde

Well, if we're posting about that, The Adventures of Square is a total conversion that's amazingly good in every way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awhVWdoq448

Carpator Diei
Feb 26, 2011


Another WAD I've seen quite a few recommendations for is Eviternity. It has some extremely good visuals and high-quality level design. Apparently it's also rather beginner-friendly compared to other WADs: It starts out somewhere in the range of Doom II's difficulty and steadily ramps it up.

There's also a thread for collectively playing Doom WADs and mods over at the retro forums; it has a bunch of other recommendations and assorted tips for getting started.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Carpator Diei posted:

Another WAD I've seen quite a few recommendations for is Eviternity. It has some extremely good visuals and high-quality level design. Apparently it's also rather beginner-friendly compared to other WADs: It starts out somewhere in the range of Doom II's difficulty and steadily ramps it up.
Compared to the other WADs being the key words here. It's still quite a difficulty jump from vanilla. But it is extremely good and very much recommended.

theenglishman
Jun 24, 2009


Probably my favourite WAD (just for the story behind it) is "A Better WAD Pulled Out My rear end" (Doomworld link), a joke WAD made in response to Doom: Rampage Edition.

Ignore all the editing, I'm being dumb and got my facts seemingly wrong, only to find out I was right the first time.

theenglishman fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 25, 2020

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



The most difficult part about going back to DOOM is no fricking crosshair.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014


The Lone Badger posted:

The most difficult part about going back to DOOM is no fricking crosshair.

If that bothers you, every source port has an option to add one.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Every gun is in the center of the screen and it autoaims?

Tried to watch this at 2x speed and Doom is just too fast, I was almost getting nauseous.

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010


Doom at "normal" speed with weapon sway turned on can do this to people. At 2x speed I'm not surprised it got you.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



The doom movie making people sick was really just staying faithful to the source material

Fabulousity
Dec 29, 2008

= (Displacement through a hetero medium) / Time


Nap Ghost

FoolyCharged posted:

The doom movie making people sick was really just staying faithful to the source material

I thought the "FPS" part of the movie was completely comatose in terms of pace. Then again I'm used to having -turbo 250 on in the game

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



Fabulousity posted:

I thought the "FPS" part of the movie was completely comatose in terms of pace. Then again I'm used to having -turbo 250 on in the game

I was just talking about the motion sickness. That scene had stuff much worse than the walking pace in it. It had... reloading

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011




Not enough muscles. We need more!

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This demake is weird, why'd they take out the glory kills?

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


there's something about this waddling dong-and-daisy-dukes interpretation of doomguy y'all have come up with that seems it should only ever be realized in Chad format.

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.


Grimey Drawer

Fun facts: The maps in DOOM are entirely two-dimensional. Any given point on the map has one floor and one ceiling, and that's it. There is no point when a hallway or room can cross above or below another room. This makes maps easier to generate, but more difficult to make seem like winding paths or tall facilities. There are some clever tricks used in some places.

The infighting in this game was so popular that there was a screen saver of it way back in the day. It was one of my favorites, although I usually switched it out for You Bet Your Head.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fish Noise posted:

there's something about this waddling dong-and-daisy-dukes interpretation of doomguy y'all have come up with that seems it should only ever be realized in Chad format.

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Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014


Monsters of the same type can infight with melee attacks, you just rarely see this, and when you do it is with melee-only monsters such as the Pinky, because it is really hard to get two imps to aggro each other. I've been playing for years and only seen it two or three times with ranged-capable enemies.

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