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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

TrixRabbi posted:

Sorry if this is carrying over discussion from the horror thread, but does Jurassic Park even count as a horror franchise?

I'd say at least the first two, and large parts of the 3rd are horror.

The first scene of Jurassic Park is a horror scene. A man being eaten alive by a raptor. Then it goes into adventure film and sci-fi territory in the first act, only to return to horror with the release of the T-rex and other dinosaurs. The T-Rex and the raptors are designed like creature feature films and monster movies. The adventure segments are always in-between the horror moments, where people are being devoured by flesh eating creatures.

Lost World also has a horror opening, with a little girl being devoured by dinosaurs, again in tone with creature feature films. A lot more of the film is adventure in an exotic location, with a few horror moments (the RV segment, the raptors, the man getting eaten by a T-rex once a snake crawls in his shirt), but the first two acts are a set-up for the 3rd act, a huge tonal shift into a Kaiju film territory, with it being a weird Americanized Gojira, which we consider horror.

Jurassic Park 3 is more of an action/adventure movie, but the whole pterodactyl plot is straight out of monster movies.

Jurassic World basically becomes Piranha 3D half-way through.

Didn't see Jurassic World 2.

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Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


Franchescanado posted:

.

Lost World also has a few horror moments (the man getting eaten by a T-rex once a snake crawls in his shirt), .
Fun fact: thats paleontologist Phil Tippett getting some screen time as a thank you. Why does that name sound familiar you ask?

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007



Shrecknet posted:

Fun fact: thats paleontologist Phil Tippett getting some screen time as a thank you. Why does that name sound familiar you ask?



When I originally saw that movie I thought that Phil Tippett was just a Robert Bakker look-a-like and it was a reference to how Alan Grant was originally based on Bakker, but it turns out that being bearded and barrel-chested is just a common look in the field.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I dunno, don't get me wrong I adore Jurassic Park it's one my all timers, but I just don't see it as horror even if it's got suspense and some scares. I think it's overwhelmingly an adventure movie in the classic mold, which is why I put it near the bottom of my rankings.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

TrixRabbi posted:

I dunno, don't get me wrong I adore Jurassic Park it's one my all timers, but I just don't see it as horror even if it's got suspense and some scares. I think it's overwhelmingly an adventure movie in the classic mold, which is why I put it near the bottom of my rankings.

Even if we're considering it a horror franchise, I ranked it low because only the first one is exceptional.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



So looking at the bracket I gotta level here: I really hope Texas Chainsaw knocks out Halloween. The only individual film on here better than the original TCM is Night of the Living Dead and then the sequels just go off the rails in all sorts of directions. Truly one of the all time greats and while I get why it's not a number one seed it's just impeccable and deserves to make it to the finals.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

TrixRabbi posted:

So looking at the bracket I gotta level here: I really hope Texas Chainsaw knocks out Halloween. The only individual film on here better than the original TCM is Night of the Living Dead and then the sequels just go off the rails in all sorts of directions. Truly one of the all time greats and while I get why it's not a number one seed it's just impeccable and deserves to make it to the finals.

The thing is, 2 of the TCM are amazing all-timers, and the original reboot is a solid entry, if my memory serves me well.

But, Halloween includes Halloween, Halloween 3, Halloween (2018), and also Danielle Harris killing it in Halloween 4 & 5. And Laurie Strode is a better protagonist than any of the TCM protagonists.

So Halloween might pull it.

I wish they didn't go head-to-head so early, though. edit: Hell, we may see an upset and see Halloween vs Predator.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

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Franchescanado posted:

Hell, we may see an upset and see Halloween vs Predator.

If you wouldn't watch that movie then you won't need Michael Myers to stab you, because I'll loving do it.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

I'd say the right side of the bracket is definitely the tougher path. Halloween and NOES have to get by heavy hitters like TCM, Jaws, Predator, Candyman, Phantasm and Scream just to get to their regional finals. Friday the 13th and Night of the Living Dead have pretty clear paths to their regional finals and won't have to face any real threats until then.

I'll be voting for some upsets though. Return of the Living Dead over Night of the Living Dead!

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

I'll be voting for some upsets though. Return of the Living Dead over Night of the Living Dead!

This is my vote for sure.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I could see voting for Universal Monsters over F13 but that's probably the only real challenger.

Springwood is absolutely the toughest bracket but if we get to Evil Dead vs. Phantasm we know we'll have done right.

edit: Alien might have an opportunity of an upset over NotLD but that would be the wrong choice. NotLD is like an all time 10 Greatest Films ever made and Dawn and Day are just unimpeachable sequels.

TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 23, 2020

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


TrixRabbi posted:

NotLD is like an all time 10 Greatest Films ever made and Dawn and Day are just unimpeachable sequels.
My dude you are not ready to hear about Alien or its first sequel.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



The funny thing about the "is Jurassic Park horror?" debate is that if it was a cheaply made film from the 70s I don't think one of us would argue it wasn't "horror". But because its a Spielberg Hollywood blockbuster I think it kicks in that "comic book store" instinct. I for one say if Jaws and King Kong and Godzilla are horror than Jurassic Park obviously is. But like if you haven't watched it recently go ahead. That classic scene with the water cup and the t-rex is right out of a horror movie and played completely for tension and fear and horrorific results. As it goes on I think the franchise loses some of that to the big adventure stuff but at least the original is definitely part horror.

But I'm fine with it losing to Psycho because its Psycho.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007



Basebf555 posted:


I'll be voting for some upsets though. Return of the Living Dead over Night of the Living Dead!

I can see liking Return over Night, but liking the Return franchise over Night/Day/Dawn?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Drunkboxer posted:

I can see liking Return over Night, but liking the Return franchise over Night/Day/Dawn?

The greatness of Return of the Living Dead makes it the better franchise all on it's own. Return of the Living Dead is the best zombie movie ever made.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Return is great but like every other film in that franchise is hot trash. Well 3 is ok. It does get minor points for TWICE just taking the same cast from 1/4 and then just doing a new movie with them in 2/5. Ballsy.

But come on. Night of the Living Dead is loving Night of the Living Dead. Dawn and Day are classics in their own right. If we're judging them by quality of the franchise as a whole or multiple good films that's one of the strongest franchises on the bracket.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

STAC Goat posted:

Return is great but like every other film in that franchise is hot trash. Well 3 is ok. It does get minor points for TWICE just taking the same cast from 1/4 and then just doing a new movie with them in 2/5. Ballsy.

But come on. Night of the Living Dead is loving Night of the Living Dead. Dawn and Day are classics in their own right. If we're judging them by quality of the franchise as a whole or multiple good films that's one of the strongest franchises on the bracket.

I love the Romero films, don't get me wrong. That's a really tough matchup and I assume Night will win, Return is obviously the underdog there.

Each person is gonna vote on their own criteria though, it's not necessarily just about consistency. I just love Return of the Living Dead that much, it overrides the mediocre sequels. Same goes for Halloween.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Watch Kvlt! drop their Evil Bong essay just in time to knock out Friday the 13th.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

I would argue that Return of the Living Dead Part 3 is the culmination of Yuzna's punk-rock body horror. Yes, you can say Society and Bride of Re-Animator are his best or most iconic, but I would say that RotLD Part 3 is the masterwork of his aesthetic.

Shame Part 2 is the weakest link.

edit: The other thing I'm considered in my votes is Rewatchability.

Night/Dawn/Day are all objectively better movies than RotlD 1-3, but I'm more willing to throw on Return of the Living Dead 1 or 3 before I put on any of Romero's Dead.

Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 23, 2020

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




Basebf555 posted:

The greatness of Return of the Living Dead makes it the better franchise all on it's own. Return of the Living Dead is the best zombie movie ever made.

Better than Braindead? Honestly I dont think I could choose a favourite zombie movie, there's way too many perfect entries

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009




It's Cemetery Man, but Return is also pretty great and I'd definitely take it over Braindead. Which was a ton of fun the first time but doesn't feel nearly as re-watchable. Same problem the original Dawn has - easily one of the best movies I've ever seen on the first viewing, but there's just not much there to support re-engagement.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Franchescanado posted:

I would argue that Return of the Living Dead Part 3 is the culmination of Yuzna's punk-rock body horror. Yes, you can say Society and Bride of Re-Animator are his best or most iconic, but I would say that RotLD Part 3 is the masterwork of his aesthetic.

Shame Part 2 is the weakest link.

edit: The other thing I'm considered in my votes is Rewatchability.

Night/Dawn/Day are all objectively better movies than RotlD 1-3, but I'm more willing to throw on Return of the Living Dead 1 or 3 before I put on any of Romero's Dead.

I could watch Dawn like every month, if I had to watch zombie movies.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


OK so, in my mind, here's how I envisioned this: Post the matchups for the week, let people lobby for their picks in this thread, then at the end of the week open up voting. That way people have time to not just deliberate, but post clips of the best kills, write long-form support articles, whatever. If you think it would be easier to just be able to vote immediately, let me know, otherwise I'm gonna do it so we are always 1 week behind voting. I dunno. Feels weird to open voting but then have a week's discussion, like... someone could click through because who gives a gently caress about Children of the Corn, then someone else posts a clip from Children of the Corn 6 that's just like, epochal and no one ever saw it before.

Thoughts?

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



poo poo, how did we all miss Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal Lecter?

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




I'm a hyperfixated weirdo when it comes to the original Dawn. At a guess I'd say I've seen Dawn around 200 times, and it's still as great to me as the first time.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

TrixRabbi posted:

poo poo, how did we all miss Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal Lecter?

Oh gently caress, seriously. That should have been a top contender.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Just erase Feast and write in Lecterverse

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009




Debbie Does Dagon posted:

I'm a hyperfixated weirdo when it comes to the original Dawn. At a guess I'd say I've seen Dawn around 200 times, and it's still as great to me as the first time.

Honestly I'm jealous. How do you feel about the remake?

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




Irony.or.Death posted:

Honestly I'm jealous. How do you feel about the remake?

I only saw it once when it came out, and I thought it was okay. It departs enough from the original Dawn that I didn't think a side by side comparison was necessary. I thought the zombie girl scene at the beginning was well done, I liked the touches of humour, and it introduced me to Richard Cheese, which I appreciated.

I've since seen a lot of discussion about the homophobia in the film, and I can definitely see that. The original Dawn dealt with a lot of race issues, but the racists were always unambiguously the bad guys. So it's disappointing that the remake has homophobes presented sympathetically. It really doesn't feel in keeping with the spirit of the franchise.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



TrixRabbi posted:

poo poo, how did we all miss Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal Lecter?

A very bad snub and why I would have preferred we spent some time "playing in" and choose the field by council/community. But them's the brackets. Always snubs from the mysterious choosers.

Debbie Does Dagon posted:

I only saw it once when it came out, and I thought it was okay. It departs enough from the original Dawn that I didn't think a side by side comparison was necessary. I thought the zombie girl scene at the beginning was well done, I liked the touches of humour, and it introduced me to Richard Cheese, which I appreciated.

I've since seen a lot of discussion about the homophobia in the film, and I can definitely see that. The original Dawn dealt with a lot of race issues, but the racists were always unambiguously the bad guys. So it's disappointing that the remake has homophobes presented sympathetically. It really doesn't feel in keeping with the spirit of the franchise.

What's the homophobia in it? I've seen the Dawn remake a million times and I can't think of anything unless you read a lot into that one quick scene of a dude trying on heels.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Mar 23, 2020

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Speaking of snubs, would Argento's Three Mothers trilogy have counted?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I thought that would have been one of the things we would have discussed in the nomination period if we had come together for it. Argento's Three Mothers and Carpenter's Apocalypse Trilogy but seemed like the big obvious ones but I'm sure there would have been some others.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

This isn't meant as criticism of you OP btw, you're doing a great job!

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I appreciate Skreknet picking up the ball and getting this started, but sadly its not the preferred way I would have seen it gone. But it is what it is.

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




STAC Goat posted:

A very bad snub and why I would have preferred we spent some time "playing in" and choose the field by council/community. But them's the brackets. Always snubs from the mysterious choosers.


What's the homophobia in it? I've seen the Dawn remake a million times and I can't think of anything unless you read a lot into that one quick scene of a dude trying on heels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjm6gdzhoTs

Scaredy Cats does a quick breakdown of it, he speaks about it specifically at the 14min mark, but the whole video is pretty good and sets up the context

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




married but discreet posted:

Speaking of snubs, would Argento's Three Mothers trilogy have counted?

I think this was discussed in the Horror Thread, and the decision was to not count it because the films aren't within the same continuity

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Debbie Does Dagon posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjm6gdzhoTs

Scaredy Cats does a quick breakdown of it, he speaks about it specifically at the 14min mark, but the whole video is pretty good and sets up the context

Eh, I don't find his case all that compelling. I don't think Snyder's Dawn has anything to say but to compare it to Romero's films, acknowledge that Romero says the subtext wasn't intentional, and then jump a few decades forward and put a dumbed down zombie film at Snyder's feet is... well he admits its a bad argument but still makes it anyway. And for Snyder's film he draws a lot of messages out of it that I just don't see at all and basically picks out the villains of the story as if they were delivering the moral story. His assertion that altruism is deemed "wrong" is countered by all the characters he doesn't mention, and his assertion that altruism gets you killed... well that's pretty present in Romero's films too and most zombie films.

Also he has a whole thing about "dark comedies" and how some of this is acceptable but not in a movie like Dawn. But Dawn definitely has a lot of dark comedy.

On the homophobia, I've never seen that one scene he showed so I guess it must have been a deleted scene. I didn't actually know for sure the character was gay and I have no idea what's up with that scene from the few seconds. But like focusing on the fact that one of a dozen characters who dies as fodder is gay doesn't strike me as terribly homophobic. I mean it would be better if there was a bad rear end gay character or something but like... he says "sexy lady" is weak to seemingly imply misogyny but the hero of the story is a very pretty lady. But I'll keep an eye out for those deleted scenes to see if there's something there the Youtuber didn't discuss. I own it on DVD so maybe they're there. I just almost never check those out.

I don't know. I think Snyder's Dawn is fun but kind of brainless. Which is basically why I've seen it a ton since I can just put it on in the background and use like a fraction of my brain to stay with it. I'm not much of a Snyder fan in general and mostly find his stuff kind of brainless that people read a lot into. So I don't know if its just people looking for something not there or if I just can't read Snyder or something.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Mar 23, 2020

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




I remember at the time just being happy that there was LGBTQ+ representation of any type, even if it was just a stock character. The only horror films I can remember seeing during the period that do it really well are maybe The Doom Generation, and that came out about a decade prior.

I do remember seeing that scene though! I just don't remember if it was in the cut I saw or maybe I tracked down deleted scenes afterwards, which I guess is possible as it was around the time that YouTube was becoming a thing

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."

The plot of Jurassic Park is Mad Scientist and B Movie. It just has a budget. B Movies count as a sub genre of horror similar to exploitation flicks. So Jurassic Park is a horror movie. Its a monster movie where the monsters are dinosaurs.


However only the first one is good


First blow out is definitely Exorcist v The Purge. No way Exorcist doesn't make it to the final bracket.

Hollismason fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 24, 2020

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Sono
Apr 9, 2008




Hollismason posted:

No way Exorcist doesn't make it to the final bracket.

Hollismason posted:

However only the first one is good

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