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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Burkion posted:

The main thing to know with the Mummy is that it was made during that big ANCIENT EGYPT craze.

Honestly it's probably one of the most influential films to not be very good on its own because the ENTIRE Mummy craze that followed was built on its back.

I would love to know more good Mummy movies, because I've never been impressed with Universal's mummy movies (Brendan Frasier Mummies are fun, but are Indiana Jones clones, which is fine). I liked all of the Hammer mummy movies. I'd really just like a film where people are stuck in a tomb with a mummy and trying to escape. Usually the mummy is stalking around in a city, which is way more boring than a booby-trapped tomb.

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Franchescanado posted:

I would love to know more good Mummy movies, because I've never been impressed with Universal's mummy movies (Brendan Frasier Mummies are fun, but are Indiana Jones clones, which is fine). I liked all of the Hammer mummy movies. I'd really just like a film where people are stuck in a tomb with a mummy and trying to escape. Usually the mummy is stalking around in a city, which is way more boring than a booby-trapped tomb.

Here's the dark truth of the Mummy movies- There are no good ones. The best you get are the weird as poo poo ones like Hammer, or The Mummy's Ghost, the best of the Universal lot and the film with the biggest balls of its era. Otherwise people just go for Supernatural Indiana Jones, as you noticed, or lovely slasher.

I never had any expectations for the Mummy with Tom Cruise because the Mummy should never have ANY expectations. It began its life as a knock off of Dracula and never, ever, ever rose above that. Then you had Zombie movies get codified by Romero and that really put a damper on the Mummy as a shambling corpse thing.

The best Mummy things tend to be anthology TV shows like Goosebumps, Tales from the Crypt, Monsters, Are You Afraid of the Dark, Tales from the Darkside and I think that's it? Maybe others.

And that's largely because they don't have an hour to gently caress around with. The thing is, it doesn't HAVE to be that way- you could do some cool poo poo with Mummy based horror. Ancient Egyptian deities, trapped tombs, puzzles and mazes, with a hostile desert waiting for you to escape to, all while an unstoppable horror that YOU unleashed for your own hubris is coming after you- it's perfect for a lower budget horror film.

That's the one unique element to most every Mummy tale worth anything, especially the original- stop loving around where you don't belong and you won't bring horrible evil down on you. Assholes

M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?





Franchescanado posted:

I would love to know more good Mummy movies, because I've never been impressed with Universal's mummy movies (Brendan Frasier Mummies are fun, but are Indiana Jones clones, which is fine). I liked all of the Hammer mummy movies. I'd really just like a film where people are stuck in a tomb with a mummy and trying to escape. Usually the mummy is stalking around in a city, which is way more boring than a booby-trapped tomb.

Timewalker from '82 had it's moments. Dawn of the Mummy from '81 starts a bit sloggy but picks up once the mummy's shuffling around.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Has anyone ever made a mummy movie that involves Early Modern European medical cannibalism? You could probably do something with the idea that mummies are the opposite of vampires and werewolves, because instead of eating humans they get eaten by humans.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


https://twitter.com/Worthikids/stat...445023133675520

This is why Jason wins the tournament

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


RESULTS!



The Western Division shakes out exactly as the seeds said they would, and the Frightful Four's first matchup is set: Friday the 13th vs Night of the Living Dead.

Congrats to your Crystal Lake and Pittsburgh Champions!

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

It's the smiles that keep us going. The bits of giggles and good cheer.



If Alien has taken our Exorcist and Romero I would have pegged it as the champ but now things are pretty up in the air.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


VOTE NOW!

It's the Evil Eight, Eastern Division. You know why you're here. A refresher:





If ya got links to longform defenses of these franchises, PM me and I'll add 'em. Otherwise, fight it out below!

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

I voted Alien but I can't say I'm devastated by this result. Romero is definitely deserving.

Sad to see Universal go but I think it would've been a shame to not see Jason in the Final(Fatal?) Four.

Edit: I voted for Evil Dead and really the t.v. series ended up being the decider on that one. Without that I feel like Evil Dead would've been too lacking in overall content for me to feel good voting against so much memorable Freddy stuff but I really loved that series.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 19, 2020

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Someone PLEASE kill Jason already!

Lecterverse should have it in the bag based on pure quality of entries, if we assume Manhunter is as good as Halloween I, what other Halloweens can measure up to Silence?
Also R.I.P. Freddy.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

married but discreet posted:

Someone PLEASE kill Jason already!

Lecterverse should have it in the bag based on pure quality of entries, if we assume Manhunter is as good as Halloween I, what other Halloweens can measure up to Silence?
Also R.I.P. Freddy.

First of all, no we don't assume that Manhunter is as good as Halloween. We absolutely do not assume that. And I love Manhunter.

I voted Halloween because that's where my heart is and because it's just closer to the core of what I think of as horror. I'm not voting against loving Halloween in favor of something that is half thriller/half horror. It just wasn't gonna happen, I don't care what analytical arguments get presented.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Genuinely surprised that Friday the 13th beat Universal Monsters. I voted for Friday, but I was sure it was dead on arrival.

This is now a question of number of quality entries mulitplied by which I would watch, and which I have seen.

As much as I love Elm Street, I've managed to see The Evil Dead in theaters no less than half a dozen times, maybe more. I think every time it's been in theaters in my city, I'm going to see it, and it's always a magical experience. I've done a lot of watch parties for The Evil Dead over the years. The Evil Dead has a really good musical, too, which manages to be fun in it's own right, plays to the series comedy while also ribbing it's goofier aspects (Jake: Now normally I'm accompanied by my significant other Bobby Joe, but since her demise at the hands of trees is similar to the fate that previously befell Cheryl, we decided to remove that redundancy from this adaptation. ... Ash: What? ... Jake: Nevermind!*), but still enjoys the gorier side of the series.

So, I love Freddy. I really do. But The Evil Dead is just all around good. Even the comics and video games are fun!


*an approximation of the bit, from my hazy memory

Basebf555 posted:

First of all, no we don't assume that Manhunter is as good as Halloween. We absolutely do not assume that. And I love Manhunter.

I voted Halloween because that's where my heart is and because it's just closer to the core of what I think of as horror. I'm not voting against loving Halloween in favor of something that is half thriller/half horror. It just wasn't gonna happen, I don't care what analytical arguments get presented.

Manhunter rules. Tom Noonan rules, Grisham rules in it, the flaming wheelchair rules. But I'm not watching Manhunter once or twice every October. I don't put the theme song of Manhunter on my Halloween playlist to scare trick-or-treaters. I don't stupidly work in lines from Manhunter, like how I scream "Six times! I shot him six times in the heart!" whenever the phrase 'six times' pops up. I don't follow Jodie Foster on instagram, but I do follow Danielle Harris. I don't listen to podcasts about Hannibal Lecter, but I've listened to several about Michael Meyers, and would listen to more if I found them.

I'm not saying any of that is healthy, either.

Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 19, 2020

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I'm behind Evil Dead to take the division. Groovy.

edit: My longform defense of the series is actually a film called Evil Dead 2. Watch it and I think the case will be closed.

TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 17:21 on May 19, 2020

david_a
Apr 24, 2010



Megamarm

RIP Frankie Mon

Taken out by trash like F13 too, insulting

Ash is the obvious standout in this group.

I honestly donít feel too much attachment to either Halloween or Lecter so Iím voting for the one with no Rob Zombie movies.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


married but discreet posted:

Someone PLEASE kill Jason already!
For real, I love Friday, but even for how hard I went with Scream, this is the first real upset for me. But I guess it freed us from the same debate around what counts.

For anyone who voted Chucky over Universal, but Universal over Friday, you have my respect.

I'm probably going against the grain with the options...

I enjoy Halloween, but none of it is really great past the first one. Manhunter and SIlence of the Lambs are really great and I love Hannibal the series. I might change my vote later though because I would much rather watch Halloweens 4 and 5 than Hannibal or Red Dragon.

Going with Nightmare over Evil Dead. Evil Dead 2 is fantastic and Army of Darkness is Good. What I've seen of the show is also pretty good, and I love Bruce Campbell. I got to come down that Evil Dead is kind of a bore. But even at its best, I feel like Evil Dead is elevated by moments. There are very few moments in any of these films as kickass as Ash putting on the chainsaw for the first time. But holistically, I don't think the movies hang with OG Nightmare or Dream Warriors.

I think that the assault stuff does bother me a bit, and while Scream is the perfection of Craven's dealing with trauma through horror schtick, that's a big part of Nightmare, and sways me to that side. Coming to terms with trauma through horror tropes is my poo poo which is ironically why I like the Evil Dead remake a lot.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Halloween losing to Lecter would just feel wrong. Lecter? Really? We're talking about Halloween here people! You want a final four with Hannibal Lecter in it but no Michael Myers? That's really what you want?

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005




Halloween vs Lecterverse is a tough one for me. Silence is one of my favourite movies, but I don't have a lot of affection for the rest of the series as a whole. It's definitely more consistent than the Halloween franchise, but it doesn't really have those additional Rob Zombie highs. Right now I'm voting Halloween, but I'm absolutely down to be persuaded otherwise.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



We all gonna hold the tree surprise sex against Evil Dead, which is painted as a truly horrific moment, but nothing about Freddy's played-for-laughs bulimia kill in The Dream Child? If anything, the assault in The Evil Dead -- if ill-advised -- stays with you and really delivers on the agony of the genre (in a way it puts it up there with The Entity for effective depictions supernatural sexual assault) whereas Elm Street gets into some very shaky territory and plays it all off for gorehounds' enjoyment. It's way more morally reprehensible.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Re: Chucky

I think that if Chucky had been matched against weaker links early on, and lasted long enough to get to a week or so ago, it might have had a better chance at taking Universal Monsters. I think part of it is the psychology of so many choices. It's easier to make cuts when there's so many options and weeks to go. When it gets down to this, 4 movies, then there's a lot more room to weigh the pros and cons. It is a good, solid franchise. It being in the running at all is evidence of that. It just has to fall to the Universal Movies.

What I'm positing is, if it were Chucky vs. Universal Monsters last week instead of Friday vs. Universal monsters, Chucky might have taken it. Although I personally consider the Universal monster movies more rewatchable than Chucky flicks.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

TrixRabbi posted:

We all gonna hold the tree surprise sex against Evil Dead, which is painted as a truly horrific moment, but nothing about Freddy's played-for-laughs bulimia kill in The Dream Child? If anything, the assault in The Evil Dead -- if ill-advised -- stays with you and really delivers on the agony of the genre (in a way it puts it up there with The Entity for effective depictions supernatural sexual assault) whereas Elm Street gets into some very shaky territory and plays it all off for gorehounds' enjoyment. It's way more morally reprehensible.

In addition:

A woman being raped by a tree is an incredibly absurd premise. That it's executed in such a way that it's one of the most shocking, memorable scenes in horror history is a point in The Evil Dead's favor. surprise sex is horrific under any context, but that it made a tree a sinister rapist, and that it's convincing to the audience, that's real film-making, despite where it lands on the taste scale.

Elm Street making death by force-feeding, a genuinely horrific and abusive concept, into hokey territory is more of a weird knock against it. It's still effective, and mean-spirited, but I don't know if I'd call it good film-making.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



The fact that the tree surprise sex is so upsetting is 100% to Raimi's credit. Had that scene been played for laughs I'd be with y'all that it's a mark against the movie, but I think making that moment as horrifying and unforgettable as it is elevates the film if anything. Whereas the longer the Elm Street sequels drag on the cruder and more appalling they get (sans New Nightmare).

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Wow, I didn't see those wins happening, but I'm glad because I voted for them

Excited to see Halloween and NOES in the finals

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007




NoES v ED is going to have me waffling for days.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Basebf555 posted:

Halloween losing to Lecter would just feel wrong. Lecter? Really? We're talking about Halloween here people! You want a final four with Hannibal Lecter in it but no Michael Myers? That's really what you want?
I think Scream vs Lecter or TCM vs Lecter would have resulted in Lecter losing out for sure. So some of it is that bracketing isn't a perfect science.

But Halloween isn't like Friday or Child's Play or Nightmare. It's always felt wrong to have sequels. Part II is incredibly un-Halloweeny. III is fine but almost a cheat as it's a standalone movie.

I think after that... there is just a wrongness to Michael as a longterm horror movie baddie. Like even with all the lovely Hellraiser movies, Pinhead is there with an actor who loves the role. And that makes at least 3 and 4 watchable.

But Michael just always felt off in the sequels and lacking in definition that his brethren had. It's this really subpar series that happens to have the most important slasher movie ever made as its first movie. And let's be real, Halloween only became a franchise because of Friday the 13th which is kinda embarrassing.

Hannibal has the greatest horror series ever created, an Academy Award winning film, and a previous film that is somehow better than the one that won the Oscar.

EDIT: I don't find the tree surprise sex upsetting because it's disturbing. I just find it in bad taste and when I watched it with my wife she was like, "What are we doing?" There are movies like Scream and Funny Games that can do sexual assault in a way that is humane or at least empathetic while also being disturbing. Evil Dead's scene is filmed in a fog machine, has lingering shots of tree dicks going up her leg, and an unnecessary boob shoot. It's just a hokey and dumb scene about an upsetting act.

EDIT #2: I'm not forgiving the latter Nightmare movies and agree with the criticism of them that was made in comparison of Evil Dead. I just generally like Nightmare and Dream Warriors a lot more than any of the Evil Dead stuff and also really like Part 2 and New Nightmare.

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 19, 2020

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Part II should be considered a good sequel and I don't really understand how you can call it "Un-Halloweeny". It's got the score, Loomis is back, and it's shot by Dean Cundey. Ok sure, it never stood a chance of living up to the original but I still think it's pretty drat solid.

Halloween 4 and 5 really are not bad. They're fine. H20 is also fine, and some people would say it's better than fine. Zombie's films are outstanding, especially his Halloween 2.

So I really do want to push back on this narrative that Halloween has one great entry followed by a bunch of trash. No, it's not as consistent as Friday the 13th or Child's Play, but I think some people are really exaggerating Halloween's lows to justify voting against it. Let's not treat Halloween the same as say, Hellraiser, which did actually have a whole run of DTV garbage sequels that I would never recommend to anybody. Halloween ain't that.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Basebf555 posted:

Part II should be considered a good sequel and I don't really understand how you can call it "Un-Halloweeny".
I meant in terms of invoking the holiday. I know there is still Halloween poo poo in there, but the hospital setting kind of divorces it from the holiday for me.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007




Winning an academy award is a mark against a movie in this competition.

*puts on sunglasses then hops on a skateboard and zooms off*

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Timeless Appeal posted:

I meant in terms of invoking the holiday. I know there is still Halloween poo poo in there, but the hospital setting kind of divorces it from the holiday for me.

Halloween II is a November 1st movie.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

The biggest mark against Halloween 2 is Laurie being helpless and delirious for most of the film. It just really undercuts how great of a character she is in the original by making her drugged up and helpless and kinda boring.

The brother/sister stuff doesn't help, either.

BisonDollah
Feb 9, 2010

To me, it was Tuesday.

C U Next Tuesday


The amount of moments A Nightmare on Elm Street has given horror is absolutely phenomenal. One of the most creative horror worlds conceived and so much of the practical effects loving own.

It seems like the film that is most HORROR usually wins these matchups but Hannibal just has that prestige no other horror does. Manhunter, Silence of the Lambs and the TV series are fantastic thrillers.

e. I mixed up my matchups!

BisonDollah fucked around with this message at 18:43 on May 19, 2020

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?





Buglord

Gonna hold off and watch a few things before voting in this round. Gonna give NoES III another shot soon, I've never cared for it much in the past but I'll try again. It won't be enough to beat Evil Dead, but at least I can say I did my research.

Also going to watch a few of the Halloween films I've never gotten to, like 5/6, and if I can find them I'll see if I can watch H20/Resurrection too as I haven't seen those since high school. I should also watch Manhunter again, it's been a while and I don't remember much.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


I have no problems with the tree surprise sex and still think Evil Dead should lose.

Also, Jason beat Universal horror, what the gently caress.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


Everyone said "not gonna vote for the thing I like bc Friday's gonna win" and then surprise the franchise that is nobody's favorite is in the Frightful Four

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Makes u think

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


Yeah, with the stakes as low as they are (a meaningless subform thread poll) its shocking how many posters in the thread referred to electoralism or even outright electability concerns throughout.

I definitely didn't see only one upset by Tremors being the only thing stopping the 1-2 seeds in every bracket from advancing straight to the evil eight

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


If we wanted to add stakes, I would chip in for a trophy if someone lives close enough to Toronto to leave it on Romero's grave.

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009




I can't say I'm upset with either outcome of Night vs. Aliens even though my pick lost, but F13 beating the mess that knocked Chucky out is just shameful. Shame.

If we could swap Nightmare and Lecter's positions in the current matchups this would be a pair of easy calls, but even with what we have it doesn't feel too tough to me - I love a lot about Nightmare, but Evil Dead is the only franchise present that doesn't have a single movie worse than good and depending on who you ask it has 1-3 greats. Wouldn't shock me if there's someone out there who puts it at 4, even, though I haven't met 'em personally. That at least ties Nightmare for greats without any of the dreck along for the ride. The only regret to be had here is that Nightmare's premise is better and it feels like the sort of thing that the genre should really aspire to, so I want to give it some bonus points for that, but as someone in here has been pointing out all thread the actual movies have consistently failed the franchise. It just can't stand up to the rock solid record of Evil Dead, however sad it is to see it go down.

Lecter vs. Halloween... I don't think there's any question that I like and respect the body of work that comes with Lecter more, and my feeling is that Halloween 4+ is straight up trash until we get to Rob's work which is still kind of rough around the edges. I think Lecter just falls a little too far outside what I want from horror to feel good about voting for it, somehow. Because even though the later Halloweens suck, they mostly suck on account of the core story and characters - there are still some great peripheral elements. I think setting your movie on Halloween is straight up cheating in some ways because it's just the absolute best time of the year and watching kids in costumes run around while a dead body's stuck in a tree is just never ever going to get old. Even if the movie it's in sucks. So I feel gross and bad about it, and I feel like my vote is incorrect and purely driven by sentimentality, but I'm voting for Halloween here. I'm going to go take a hot shower now.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I want to rage and kick and scream about the Friday movies knocking off the Universals. I'm shocked and a little sad and a little concerned about our Spook-A-Doodle community's self esteem with this "horror should be bad" thing. But I can't do it because on some level I accept that this is karmically caused by me spending weeks calling the Universals into question. I mean, I don't want to get a big head and think I changed minds... but its possible that I won this for Jason. I feel a little sick.

I'm gonna finish Hannibal this week and binge Silence/Hannibal/Red Dragon. Sadly Manhunter isn't available to me nor Hannibal Rising. I doubt they'll pull my vote away from Halloween though. Its absolutely one of my favorite franchises and I consider the criticisms against it incredibly inconsistent with the arguments for Jason. It comes back to that weird thing where because Halloween was so good all its sequels are judged harsher and because Friday the 13th... wasn't good... there are no standards and the rules don't apply. Its sad, Spook-A-Doodles. You've hurt me. Now I know you'll take out Micheal too.

Freddy vs Evil Dead has been the hard one for weeks. I'm leaning ED but I should probably watch some Freddy movies to refresh myself. Its been awhile. Just in the name of fairness. Balancing Hannibal Lecter with Freddy Krueger could either be a perfect plan or really disastrous.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Eh. Not necessarily.

The Mummy isn't good.

The Wolfman is fun but flawed.

If we're talking about Talbot years or The Original Run of Universal Monsters, then Creature From The Black Lagoon really shouldn't be included.

That leaves Frankenstein (Great), Dracula (Good and Iconic, but the Spanish version is better), Bride of Frankenstein (The Best of the Bunch), and Invisible Man (Great).

As for the sequels and match-ups. There's a reason why Z-Fest showed a 20 minute version of Frankenstein Meets The Wolfman. That's treatment could be done to many of the Universal sequels.

Friday the 13th meanwhile has a lot of bang for your buck over the course of a dozen movies. And to repeat, for forever more, while it's highs are never as high as Bride or Invisible Man, it's lows are still pretty fun and watchable.

edit: If there's a series I think was robbed, so far, I'd say it is probably Chucky. But I'd still pick Freddy or Jason or Michael over Chucky, so it's a moot point for my vote.

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TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Anyone dismayed by the loss of the Universal Monsters can make up for it by voting for Lecter, an amazing series which in reality probably woulda been the 2-seed had there not be that omission in the beginning of the bracket.

Here's one argument to consider for Lecter: One of the arguments made for Friday to win over Universal was that it would be supporting the rough and tumble horror, rather than the elitist "ughhh horror films" attitude that looks down on movies for being cheap and aggressive. Well, Lecter has a film that not only won the Oscar for Best Picture but sweeped the awards that year -- and it's one of a handful of films in the history of the Academy Awards that you can really say truly deserved the high honors. But with that, all the elitists scrambled to explain why "it's not really a horror movie." There's been a sort of naturally-occurring campaign for decades to convince people that Silence of the Lambs is a "psychological thriller" as the horror label is too crass for serious-minded people.

Well, gently caress em. Hannibal is horror, and one way to own that definitely is for Lecter to make it to the Fatal Four and duke it out for the title. Let's not forget, those movies can be gruesome. They're not for the lighthearted, the gore though more sparse your average slasher is much more intense when it occurs. They're filthy, gross. And while the series has its schlocky misstep sequels, they're certainly preferable to any of the late period Halloweens.

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