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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Give me any Halloween sequel, I don't care if it's Curse of Michael Myers or Resurrection, I'd take any of them over Hannibal Rises. And Red Dragon is just as forgettable as the most mediocre of Halloween/Friday/NOES sequels, so let's not pretend like Lecter never had any serious missteps.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I absolutely think Hannibal is horror.

But Halloween is Halloween.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

I also think it's important to note that Jonathan Demme incorporates horror into a lot of his films. It's what makes them so strange and helps them defy their genres. Something Wild becomes a thriller in it's 2nd half, and then becomes a straight up horror film for it's finale. Stop Making Sense incorporates classic horror lighting and angles for Swamp. Married To The Mob has a strange sense of gallows humor throughout that has even more bite than some Coen comedies. There's still a lot of his films I haven't seen that may have more examples, and I wish we got more straight-up horror films from him, cuz he really was a master.

Another point towards Silence of the Lambs, which Manhunter missed: Demme has a sense of humor, and you can kinda feel a macabre glee with some of the moments in it. Manhunter is great, but it's so drat serious.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Basebf555 posted:

Give me any Halloween sequel, I don't care if it's Curse of Michael Myers or Resurrection, I'd take any of them over Hannibal Rises. And Red Dragon is just as forgettable as the most mediocre of Halloween/Friday/NOES sequels, so let's not pretend like Lecter never had any serious missteps.
The problem isn't necessarily that the Halloween sequels are bad (I have a lot nostalgia for them). But they are generic slashers with Michael Meyers in them. And I stand by my comment that there's something vaguely humiliating about them. Halloween II exists to cash-in on a name because of Friday and H20 is riding on Scream's coattails. They're okay (2, 3, 4, 5, H20) to straight up bad (Resurrection, 6). But they're generic as hell and any interesting ideas like an anthology series or a new killer are immediately wasted. But more than that, Michael just feels so slight. His mask more often looks like poo poo and he has no real definition to him.

Halloween is an incredible first movie, but I just don't think there is any other slasher that fails so terribly at recapturing the strength of the original outside of Loomis. And it's going against a franchise that not only has an equally iconic villain, but one who has been reinvented like three times, each one equally good.

I mean dude, Hannibal the TV Series is a show that starts off intentionally as a Criminal Minds rip-off where the villain slowly wins, tricking the heroes into cannibalism, and eventually turning them each other, turning the first season into a retelling of the story of Job where god loses. The classy villain continues to take over the show until the last season is a gothic horror story to his liking. That's a high that is hard to beat.

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 21:11 on May 19, 2020

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Man that Hannibal series really was outstanding, like one of my top 10 favorite t.v. shows of all time. Still doesn't change my vote but it does make my argument a bit tougher to sell.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

Man that Hannibal series really was outstanding, like one of my top 10 favorite t.v. shows of all time. Still doesn't change my vote but it does make my argument a bit tougher to sell.

Still haven't seen it!

Or all of Ash Vs Evil Dead!

There's too much TV.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Franchescanado posted:

Still haven't seen it!

Or all of Ash Vs Evil Dead!

There's too much TV.
My wife and I do a TV schedule instead of binging. Like we program 1-2 shows to watch per night with each show getting its own day like we're programming a TV network. It actually makes TV incredibly more manageable, and it's been fun to start of the season in September with Halloweeny programmed...

...we um, do take breaks in summer for full TV programmer cosplay.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007




Basebf555 posted:

Man that Hannibal series really was outstanding, like one of my top 10 favorite t.v. shows of all time. Still doesn't change my vote but it does make my argument a bit tougher to sell.

Same.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007




Franchescanado posted:

Still haven't seen it!

Or all of Ash Vs Evil Dead!

There's too much TV.

AvED is an extremely easy watch. Episodes are quick and most having fast pacing.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I watched the first 2 seasons of Hannibal the last couple of weeks Its real good, but I don't love it the way others do. I think Fuller is a better artist than a storyteller. Everything about the series is well done, well acted, well crafted. Its a beautiful piece of art. But as a story I think its a bit of an absurd mess that isn't always easy to engage with. I took a break before S3 because the S2 finale was SO MUCH and everyone seemed to be saying that S3 was the "worst" of what I was criticizing it for. But those were TV fans and it also sounds like it might be the most "horror" season. I'll pick it back up and find out.

My problem with the Halloween criticisms is they feel like the exact opposite of arguments for Friday the 13th. To me it seems clear that Friday isn't hurt by the fact that it doesn't have a great film to elevate it like Halloween and Nightmare on Elm Street. Its helped because the standards are kept low meanwhile those franchises seem to be entirely judged against their inability to live up to the bar they set for themselves.

I have nothing against Hannibal. I'm probably not gonna vote for it because I love Halloween and its sequels but I'm gonna try and give it a fair chance. But it really feels like Halloween/Hannibal and Friday/Universal are getting the opposite treatments. One moment it matters that something is "true horror" and bad sequels are a good thing. The next the legitimacy of Academy Awards matters and "mediocre slashers" are a bad thing.

But I'm probably just a salty baby. I always knew Jason was gonna take this thing. I just started to believe otherwise during it. I fooled myself.

BisonDollah
Feb 9, 2010

To me, it was Tuesday.

C U Next Tuesday


I love the spook-a-doodle gang tag, I want it. Who do I need blow?

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


It costs 100 bison dollars. Once you kidnap the queen of England, you will be able to set the exchange rate to 5 pounds sterling per Bison Dollar

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Franchescanado posted:

Genuinely surprised that Friday the 13th beat Universal Monsters. I voted for Friday, but I was sure it was dead on arrival.

loving me too

Dreams do come true. Go Jason!

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

It's the smiles that keep us going. The bits of giggles and good cheer.



I havenít seen Hannibal the tv series but I can tell you all of AvED is good and season 2 is flat out great.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

BisonDollah posted:

I love the spook-a-doodle gang tag, I want it. Who do I need blow?

Participate and complete one of the horror challenges. That one was given out in the April challenge. Next one's the annual October Challenge.

Or you can buy it for yourself, I think.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Franchescanado posted:

Or you can buy it for yourself, I think.

The ultimate poser move...

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

married but discreet posted:

The ultimate poser move...



If you can't watch and talk about 13-31 horror movies in a month, are you really a Spook-a-Doodle? Question for the ages.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


STAC Goat posted:

My problem with the Halloween criticisms is they feel like the exact opposite of arguments for Friday the 13th. To me it seems clear that Friday isn't hurt by the fact that it doesn't have a great film to elevate it like Halloween and Nightmare on Elm Street. Its helped because the standards are kept low meanwhile those franchises seem to be entirely judged against their inability to live up to the bar they set for themselves.
Friday the 13th is a mess of a franchise and it's insane that not only did it beat Universal but implicitly beat Child's Play. Like I can gently caress with people who voted for Child's Play over Universal... but I really cannot fathom people who went with Universal over Chucky and then went with Friday over Universal.

BUT... I'm going to be real with you, I might vote for Friday the 13th over Halloween. It's not just that Friday is consistent, each film is pretty memorable that strengthens it as a good franchise. Like you can poo poo on Jason X or Jason Takes Manhattan, but each film sticks with you and has a clear identity in way the Halloween sequels don't to me. 2, 4, and 5's greatest sin in my mind is that they feel very bland. They're competent potboilers. No one's arguing that Halloween should have lost to Tremors or that Halloween is not an important and incredible movie.

Let's also call this out, Halloween as a franchise is also constantly embarrassed by itself, rebooting itself multiple times. How are you taking a franchise seriously that has twice said itself that the majority of its films are poo poo? Why are you voting for something that literally tells you ignore most of it and then twenty years later tells you to ignore the last movie that told you to ignore most of the movies, but still ignore those other movies?

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 15:02 on May 20, 2020

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



If Friday beats Romero then we all deserve damnation.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


My boy's gonna play in the big leagues, my boy's gonna knock 'em dead.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

poo poo on Jason all you want, but here he is in the Final Four and he ain't gonna be stopped. He's gonna crush the haters like he would a camp counselors skull.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I honestly don't think Jason beating Universal is some great travesty. It's a little boring that the #1 seeds are all dominating but like, Friday was #1 for a reason. I don't think it's laughable to say that in this day and age Jason is in some ways as iconic and representative of horror as Frankenstein and Dracula. Universal never had a movie where Crispin Glover does a weird rear end dance and gets murdered.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Unfortunately The Shining wasn't included because a psychic pre-teen is the only thing that can deny Jason's supremacy.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



If we had allowed remakes Carrie could have participated (two in continuity, a TV remake and the 2013 version).

BisonDollah
Feb 9, 2010

To me, it was Tuesday.

C U Next Tuesday


What was supposed to be the good mid-franchise Halloween again, 5? I hope so because I watched 4 last night and it was so middle-of-the-road I was scared of being hit by a truck. That ending. Why do so many slasher sequels have that "little kid is the new slasher icon" and do any of them ever actually follow up on it?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

BisonDollah posted:

What was supposed to be the good mid-franchise Halloween again, 5? I hope so because I watched 4 last night and it was so middle-of-the-road I was scared of being hit by a truck. That ending. Why do so many slasher sequels have that "little kid is the new slasher icon" and do any of them ever actually follow up on it?

4 and 5 are not really considered good, just not bad. Decent. Middle of the road is pretty accurate. And they look better in comparison with 6, which most people hate.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


BisonDollah posted:

Why do so many slasher sequels have that "little kid is the new slasher icon" and do any of them ever actually follow up on it?

Friday the 13th Part 5 and Part 6, kind of

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Burkion posted:

Friday the 13th Part 5 and Part 6, kind of

Ehhhh, there's a pretty big disconnect between the way Tommy ends up in Part 5 vs. the Jason-hunting crusader we see at the beginning of Part 6. It's never explained, they pretty much just dropped it entirely because the fans were clamoring for more Jason after the bait and switch in Part 5.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Basebf555 posted:

Ehhhh, there's a pretty big disconnect between the way Tommy ends up in Part 5 vs. the Jason-hunting crusader we see at the beginning of Part 6. It's never explained, they pretty much just dropped it entirely because the fans were clamoring for more Jason after the bait and switch in Part 5.

Well I more meant 4 shows us the Kid part, 5 follows up on that and then 6 .........does something else entirely

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Basebf555 posted:

Ehhhh, there's a pretty big disconnect between the way Tommy ends up in Part 5 vs. the Jason-hunting crusader we see at the beginning of Part 6. It's never explained, they pretty much just dropped it entirely because the fans were clamoring for more Jason after the bait and switch in Part 5.

Is it really a bait and switch when it's incredibly obvious from the first scene that it's not Jason.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Burkion posted:

Well I more meant 4 shows us the Kid part, 5 follows up on that and then 6 .........does something else entirely

I haven't seen Part 5 in a while, is there a strong indication that Tommy might be the killer, is that like the main red herring?

I should watch it again, I often skip from Part 4 to Part 6.

Lurdiak posted:

Is it really a bait and switch when it's incredibly obvious from the first scene that it's not Jason.

Well Jason was the bait that got people into the theater and then the switch comes like 5 minutes into the movie haha

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Basebf555 posted:

Well Jason was the bait that got people into the theater and then the switch comes like 5 minutes into the movie haha
Excuse me... the bait was Jason AND Corey Feldman.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Basebf555 posted:

I haven't seen Part 5 in a while, is there a strong indication that Tommy might be the killer, is that like the main red herring?

I should watch it again, I often skip from Part 4 to Part 6.

He's basically the main suspect for the film, yeah. Partly due to lack of other sane options. He's never around at the same time as Roy, he's very violent and quick to anger, he has an obsession with masks and the reoccurring nightmare of Jason and he's generally in the area when murders happen.

But it's hard to say if people would have thought he was the killer or not after all this time

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Honestly Part 5 kind of fails as a proper whodunnit, not that Part 1 is much better. I remember as a kid that I just assumed the big reveal was that it was Jason somehow. So the Roy reveal felt out of nowhere.

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

It's the smiles that keep us going. The bits of giggles and good cheer.



Halloween 4 is better than 80-90% of Friday the 13th movies.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


TheBizzness posted:

Halloween 4 is better than 80-90% of Friday the 13th movies.

I mean it's not, but it's an ok Friday the 13th wannabe.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


If it were a F13 entry, H4 would be considered maybe the best film in the series.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet


Post if you voted but feel like you could be swayed.

I voted Halloween but could be convinced of Lecter; ive never seen the show and wont watch it for this thread though.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Origami Dali posted:

If it were a F13 entry, H4 would be considered maybe the best film in the series.

I'm sorry but that's just not true, and I don't know how anyone could sincerely hold that opinion.

It's like saying Wishmaster 2 is the best Freddy movie.

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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Origami Dali posted:

If it were a F13 entry, H4 would be considered maybe the best film in the series.

Pretty ridiculous position since Halloween post-Halloween 2/3 are Friday the 13th rip-offs until H:20.

Like, objectively. The writers and producers can be traced to changing Michael into Jason, the films have more F13 DNA than Carpenter DNA.

I like H4, but I'd really only pick it over Manhattan and the Jason movies.

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