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gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
poo poo I missed this thread until just now. voted in the current round!

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gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
drat, Ginger Snaps vs. Final Destination... Ginger Snaps is a better movie than any of the FD series, but I haven't seen the sequels. I've seen all of FD though and they're all good to great (except 4).

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Shrecknet posted:

I think this will end up being closer than we think. The Purge has had 4 entrants that only get better and better, and is an explicit critique of capitalism. Exorcist is merely a vector for a pretty good score.

Exorcist III though

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
Prophecy vs Amityville... voted Bloodrayne

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I'm not sure if I've seen Ghoulies III/IV, but II is probably my favorite "rubber puppet monster" movie

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
gonna hold off voting until I watch Prom Night 2 sometime in the next few days, otherwise these are mostly easy choices for me

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
The first Conjuring is a good movie, the sequel is bad but with one really good scene, and the others I’ve seen are really lame. I like Jeepers Creepers well enough (the first two at least, haven’t seen 3) although they aren’t amazing. Jeepers wins out as a franchise since there are just so many bad Conjuring sequels.

Hellraiser probably wins out over Poltergeist just based on the first two films, even though it has a lot of terrible sequels that pull the overall series average down. Poltergeist is good but not on the same level.

Also I confess I’ve only seen the first Phantasm movie, I should try to watch some more before voting!

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen an Underworld movie. Are they worth checking out?

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
oh no

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Alhazred posted:

I would argue that the RotLD franchise has two great films.

:hmmyes:

I haven’t seen any of the other ROTLD sequels though but based on their reputations I’m not missing much. FD on the other hand has 3 solid films, one OK one, and only one bad entry. None are as good as the first ROTLD but as a franchise it wins easily for me.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
Ghoulies 2 owns but there’s no contest when it’s up against the Romero films

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I like Hellraiser 2, Ghoulies 2, Exorcist III, Final Destination 2/5, and Evil Dead II all more than the first entries in their series. I used to think TCM2 was better than the first but the last time I rewatched both I changed my mind.

e: oh poo poo forgot Gremlins 2 (although two films isn't really a franchise I guess)

gey muckle mowser fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Apr 20, 2020

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I used to be lukewarm on TCM but when I rewatched it again after Hooper died my opinion of it improved greatly

Jedit posted:

I actually own Evil Dead 2 but haven't watched it. I should probably take it off my Shelf of Shame. However, the reason I never got round to it is because I'm told it's basically the first movie but played for laughs. Is that accurate?

:catstare:

I wouldn't say it's played for laughs exactly, although it is often really funny. A lot of the humor comes from how things keep escalating in ridiculous ways, and there's a lot of physical comedy with Ash getting the poo poo kicked out of him, but there aren't many "jokes" like a straight comedy would have. I think a lot of horror/comedies are really just comedies with some horror elements - Evil Dead 2 is still a horror movie at its core.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

feedmyleg posted:

Aw gently caress that's what I thought the home release was :smith:

Read an interview with the composer or somesuch on that release and was really excited by it. Ah well, this is still a better way to see it than 99% of people have had.

The bluray already looks really really good so I’m sure the 4K release looks excellent too, even if it’s not the latest remaster

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I like both Blade and Blade II a lot but Scream is in my top 5 horror films of all time and Scream II is real solid as well. Even 3 and 4 are fine.

The first Candyman is a better film than any of the NoES movies, but the latter has at least three films that I really like and even the bad ones are entertaining enough (except the remake).

Evil Dead is no contest, 4 films and a TV series that are all excellent. I like the first Conjuring film a lot but from what I’ve seen of the rest they are at best mediocre.

I like From Dusk til Dawn well enough but it’s at best like a solid B+ for me. Haven’t seen the sequels. Hellraiser wins easily, the first two are excellent and some of the rest have their moments.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I actually haven't seen FDTD in a long time, but it was a staple back in high school and college. I should probably revisit it.

I should also revisit NoES III, I'm not as hot on it as everyone else seems to be. It's been a pretty long time for that one too.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Timby posted:

Oh, gently caress off with this.

There's a lot of Scream 3 that is decent-ish but we do not speak of Scream 4. It is an utter abomination and I don't blame Wes Craven for regretting his directing work on it.

granted I haven't seen it since it came out, but I thought it was entertaining enough. It's bad compared to the other Scream films for sure, but it's still better than the worst films in most franchises.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Timeless Appeal posted:

New Nightmare is fine and is a fun meditation on the idea of scary stories and why we tell them.

But I think it does bug me that Scream gets pegged as a simply a meta movie, and let's be clear, that's part of it, but it's also not what makes the movie special. Friday the 13th Part 6 also has characters openly discussing horror movie tropes. Scream is something else. If you voted for Blade just on the love for Blade 1, here is why you need to change your vote:

1-- Scream is a fantastic whodunnit. Look at this goddamn piece of artwork. You get the goofy fun of Randy calling out the correct fact that the dad is red herring and Billy is the killer, but also check Matthew Lillard's performance. First you see him getting anxious as he realizes that Billy is still a suspect, so he transitions to trying to plant hints that the father is the murder, planting the seeds so he can frame Mr. Prescott later. But then he starts to get anxious as Randy is unconvinced and goes on his "Everybody's a suspect" rant. You can see there is both anxiety over being found out and also over the fact that they might have to kill Randy.

And it's not even the only scene like that! Watch this scene where Stu openly gloats to Sidney about how he murdered her mother (The only murder Stu was involved in at this point in the film) and Billy subtly tells him to shut the gently caress up. Randy correctly guesses why Stu chose them as victims, and Billy once again subtly tells him to calm the gently caress down.

2-- Scream is a fantastic slasher. The opening scene of Scream is amazing. A great magic trick of recreating and upping the Psycho technique of killing your big name actor, but it also might be the best slasher scene on film? It definitely rivals the Psycho shower scene or the Halloween closet scene. I love and appreciate Blade and even Blade II, but for gently caress's sake. The best scenes of Blade cannot rival the mastery of pacing and tension that is that scene. Or how good a job Drew Barrymore does of getting you invested in her. It's legitimately harrowing and devastating on the first watch to see her die. But the whole thing works like an overture, heightening the sense that no one is safe. The attack on Sidney, the garage scene, and the film's finale are all just amazing. As much as I agree with Scream being the end of slashers, go back to the moment of Stu and Randy bickering and Sidney just legitimately having no idea what to do, who to trust. Halloween and Friday the 13th all have that moment where things are sort of unraveling for the heroine and the bad guy seems unstoppable, but I think Scream does probably the best job at really putting you in the point of view of a heroine who's losing the plot and has no idea what to do. You really have no idea what's going on in that first watch.

3-- Scream is feminist as gently caress-- Scream is the story of a girl who deep down questions if the mean girls in the bathroom were right: Her mother's promiscuity made her deserving of murder. Sidney overcorrects and is wary of sex. This only sets her up to essentially be guilted into sex who reveals to be the actual person who murdered her mother. The end of the film is Sidney is lectured by the man who killed her mother and essentially raped her by gaslighting her into sex. She sees the game. It doesn't matter if you're a slut or you're a virgin, they'll always be some turd like Billy making you fee like poo poo. So, she takes loving control. She doesn't only emasculate them by robbing them of their costumes and doing their scary voice. She doesn't just completely diminish them by doing the simple act of calling the loving police. She takes control of the film itself. Scream is never from the killer's POV, always the victim. So when Sidney takes control, the film is finally from Billy and Stu's PoV because they're the victims. It even rewrites the Halloween closet scene. Billy the villain is still outside the closet, Sidney is inside, but instead of hiding and cowering, she shoots out and stabs the gently caress out of him. I really don't think that I have such a trained dopamine release from a movie as when Billy and Stu lose Sidney and the phone rings.

But of course Sidney doesn't just kill Billy. Gale helps. Gale who is depicted as being a bitch the whole movie and what does the end of the movie reveal? gently caress yes Gale is a bitch and the exact woman needed to shoot a motherfucker. Could Gale Weathers kill Blade? You know the goddamn answer.

Scream is not just a meta movie about slashers. It genuinely might be the greatest Slasher ever made, the grand finale of a genre, perfecting and refining it. And on top of that, it just has an amazing batting average. Scream 2 isn't as tight and nowhere nearly as good a whodunit, but it's heads and shoulders above some of the depth of crap that other stuff gets into. Same for Scream 3 and Scream 4.

It is a goddamn travesty if the end of this bracket isn't Scream vs Evil Dead.

:yeah: to all this. Every time I watch Scream I appreciate it more. New Nightmare is good but it’s not nearly on he same level.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
Friday the 13th vs Wishmaster is super easy. Wishmaster 1/2 are entertaining but far from classics, the third one sucks and I haven't seen 4. F13 is one of the most consistent and fun horror franchises and wins easily.

Chucky rules and it's also a pretty consistent franchise, but it's up against some of the greatest horror films of all time. I don't love all of them but there are more stone cold classics than there are movies in the whole Child's Play series. Universal Monsters wins.

I like RotLD and RotLD 3 a whole lot, but Night/Dawn/Day are all better than both and Land/Survival at least have their moments (I don't like Diary at all though). The Savini remake is also good. Night of the Living Dead wins this for me.

Alien/Exorcist is tough. Alien is probably my favorite film out of the two franchises, but the rest of the series leans much more towards sci-fi/action than it does horror. Even so, they all have horror elements and are very consistent. I even like Resurrection, it's more of a b-movie but it's fun. I saw Prometheus in theaters and enjoyed it but it didn't blow me away. I think it warrants a re-watch before I vote.

On the other hand, The Exorcist and Exorcist III are both amazing. I have not seen the rest of the Exorcist films (or the show) so I can't comment, but the movies at least are not well regarded and are unlikely to affect my vote. Are any beyond 1/3 worth checking out at all?

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Basebf555 posted:

I like them all but I'm definitely in the minority. I do think that Exorcist II(The Heretic) and Dominion are worth watching if only to see that they aren't as bad as the reputation they seem to have. So like, I wouldn't expect either film to blow you away and make the vote a no-brainer, but at the same time I think Heretic and Dominion are good enough that they shouldn't drag down Exorcist or tip the scales to Alien. I think both series are fairly equal in that regard, two great films and then some decent sequels.

That feels like it was rambling and didn't make much sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can throw Heretic, Dominion, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, and AvP in the same box and I don't think any one of them really stands above the others.

Hmm ok, in the interest of fairness I'll see if I can watch at least Exorcist II before the voting ends. Thanks!

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Class3KillStorm posted:

Did we ever establish which precise Universal Monsters movies are in contention here? It sounds like there's some confusion as to which ones we're talking about, and the whole series is a wide enough net to cover both incredible highs (Frankenstein, Son of Frankenstein) and some pretty dull lows (a lot of the sequels to The Mummy are pretty blah, I'm not as keen on any Wolf Man movie, etc.).

That said, I have too much personal investment in the Child's Play franchise - as it started as the only horror movie to really scare me as a child to the one consistent horror franchise that I love as an adult - for me to vote against it here. Even for Bela Lugosi and Boris Karloff.

Generally the “Universal Monster” movies are Dracula, Frankenstein, Mummy, Invisible Man, Wolfman, and Creature from the Black Lagoon, and all the sequels and crossovers involving those. That’s what I’m voting on at least. I’ve also seen the 1943 Phantom of the Opera lumped in. Comes out to about 30 films I believe.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Shrecknet posted:

One Linnea Quigley striptease does not make it that great. I really just don't see what you do. It's a muddled, confused movie that is trying to run two or three plots concurrently, none of which work until they abandon that and just put everyone in the same funeral home. Meanwhile, everything that isn't the costumes and makeup looks like sub-Mac and Me-quality garbage.

:eyepop:

Franchescanado posted:

Haaaaaaaaard disagree on all points.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

TrixRabbi posted:

- Zombie (Fulci, though this could get messy)

oh god

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I watched Cult of Chucky last night and it's a big plus to the Chucky side of the argument. Not enough to tip the scales entirely for me, but the whole franchise is pretty consistent and I like that it keeps going in different directions.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

STAC Goat posted:

I've been wanting to get into the Godzilla... world for a few years now but I just have no idea how to approach it. One marathon I'll give it a try after creating a flow chart or something. Or just watch Godzilla to at least start.

Just watch the films in the Criterion Showa Godzilla boxset, you don’t need a chart to enjoy giant monsters punching each other.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I ended up switching my vote to Child's Play - there are unquestionably some better films in the Universal lineup, but the arguments here convinced me that they aren't really a franchise in the same way as most everything else in this tournament. If it had specified "Universal Frankenstein" that probably would've won.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Burkion posted:

Those same arguments that started to break down and switched to "I'm voting emotionally rather than logically"?

I'm only bringing THAT up because, since Universal is still in the drat thing, we're still going to have this discussion later.

I worded that poorly - when I said they "aren't really a franchise in the same way as most everything else" I don't mean whether they technically count because of continuity or whatever, I'm saying that I think Child's Play is a better as a franchise because they form a more consistent and cohesive series of films, even if none of them hit the same heights as the best of the Universal movies. Maybe it's emotional more than logical, but that's going to be the case for most match ups.

Basebf555 posted:

I'm not sure I really follow your logic because you're saying that just the Frankenstein films alone would've been enough to vote against Child's Play. So why not limit your consideration to just the Frankenstein films and vote accordingly? Why disqualify the entry all together?

If it were just the Frankenstein films it would be different because on their own I do think they are consistent with each other thematically and in terms of style/tone. Dracula/The Wolf Man/etc feel like their own separate things that crossed over with each other. I'm not disqualifying them, I genuinely think Child's Play is a better franchise when compared to the Universal films as a whole (or even just the "Larry Talbot saga").

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
As much as I love TCM 1/2 (and I think the 2003 remake is fine, mostly for R. Lee Ermey), I have to go with Halloween. It's a close call, but I like the original Halloween better than the original TCM by just a hair and I think Halloween just has more good films overall, even if both franchises have some real stinkers.

Hannibal over Tremors, easy.

Freddy vs Scream is a really tough call. Scream is near perfect in my eyes and easily the best film out of both franchises, and as good as the first NoES is I never really loved any of the sequels. Voted Scream for now. I think I'm gonna give NoES 3 another shot soon as that seems to be the one that people regard as the best.

Evil Dead wins hands down. Four amazing films and an excellent TV show. Army of Darkness is my least favorite but I'd still rank it way higher than any of the Hellraiser sequels after II.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I know that the tree rape scene in The Evil Dead is understandably a big turn off for a lot of people, but it's not meant to be funny or titillating, just horrifying. The first film has a mean streak that the rest do away with. Evil Dead II repeats the same basic scene without the rape, and it works better.

I'm all for Friday the 13th > Universal. For better or worse it defined what we think of as a "horror franchise" today, and this thread wouldn't exist without it (or at least it would look very different). It only has two films that I think are bad (Manhattan and Goes to Hell) but even those have some fun parts. I don't know that the surge in popularity of horror in the '80s would've happened without F13. Jason has become a pop culture icon, to the point where people who've never seen a single F13 film still associate hockey masks with slasher films.

and in my mind,

Burkion posted:

nothing is more horror than Friday the 13th.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I should give Invisible Man another shot because the last time I watched it (4-5 years ago) I didn't like it at all

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
Gonna hold off and watch a few things before voting in this round. Gonna give NoES III another shot soon, I've never cared for it much in the past but I'll try again. It won't be enough to beat Evil Dead, but at least I can say I did my research.

Also going to watch a few of the Halloween films I've never gotten to, like 5/6, and if I can find them I'll see if I can watch H20/Resurrection too as I haven't seen those since high school. I should also watch Manhunter again, it's been a while and I don't remember much.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I've been watching/rewatching some stuff for this thread, here's my "research":

Halloween 4/5/6 - I watched all three for the first time over the past week or so, so now I've seen every film in the series (although it's been so long for H20 + Resurrection that I barely remember them). 4 is a decent slasher but still a pale imitation of the original. 5 is boring apart from Loomis acting like a lunatic. 6 is misguided as hell but actually kinda fun in a dumb '90s sort of way - it's definitely not good, but I found it more entertaining that the other two for sure.

NoES 3 - I used to think this wasn't that great, but I really loved it this time around. It has some dumb moments (I especially didn't like the ending with John Saxon) but overall it's a blast and contains some of the best nightmare scenes in the whole franchise.

Ash vs Evil Dead - I'm not done with this yet (season 1 was a rewatch and now I'm about halfway through season 2) but it's so drat good. It's insane how gory and gross it is, not just for a TV show but just in general.

---------

So on Halloween vs the Lecterverse... I think the original Halloween is the best film out of both franchises, but Silence of the Lambs is a close second. Manhunter is great, but Red Dragon and Hannibal never did much for me. I haven't seen the TV show, I wish I had the time to get it in. Halloween has more good films in the series the Lecterverse does, and while there are definitely lower lows with Halloween, it's not enough to bring the franchise down below Lecter. Went with Halloween.

NoES vs Evil Dead - even though I enjoyed NoES 3 much more on this rewatch, Evil Dead is still my pick. As a concept, Freddy is one of the best movie monsters of all time, but very few of the films actually make it work. Evil Dead on the other hand only has one weaker entry (Army of Darkness), but even that is still fun as hell and blows the majority of the NoES films out of the water. Plus, Evil Dead II was probably the film that truly got me into horror beyond occasionally seeing popular stuff with friends, so I gotta go with my gut here.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

bitterandtwisted posted:

Does anyone with no childhood nostalgia for them care much for the Friday movies? I saw them as an adult and thought they were aggressively ok. I didn't love or hate any of them.

I had only seen one or two of them until I was in my 30's, and I love the series.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord
I could go either way on Romero vs Evil Dead. NotLD is untouchable and there's no arguing it's an important and highly influential film, possibly more so than any other single movie that has been discussed in this thread. Dead/Day are both excellent as well, although I'm a little less hot on Day than some others are. Land/Survival are fine, although I think Diary is garbage. The Savini remake is good, and I enjoy the Snyder Dawn too.

However - Evil Dead is much more important to me personally than NotLD is. Evil Dead II is the film that made me fall in love with the horror genre, and it's my favorite out of any film in this bracket. Army of Darkness is the weakest point in the franchise, but that's not because it's bad (it's a solid B), it's just being compared to some of the greatest horror films ever made.

So yeah, sorry Romero, this tournament isn't about the best film or the most influential one - it's about the greatest franchise, and my heart says Evil Dead.

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gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

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Buglord

Basebf555 posted:

Not sure why everyone seems to be assuming that Evil Dead is going to the finals. It has some vocal supporters but I still think Halloween has a very good shot to win the matchup.

oops, for some reason I thought that was the match-up for this round. Halloween vs Evil Dead is a much easier decision for me. All four of the franchises still in the game are strong contenders but Halloween is my least favorite of them.

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