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Noam Chomsky
Apr 4, 2019






Dick Burglar posted:

Going by that first sentence, it's pretty obvious where that org lies on the political spectrum. Then again, a pro-gun organization that doesn't skew hard R (heh) is a rare bird. Their apparent affiliation makes it all the stranger that they're happily using the term ~*~problematic~*~ but hey it aint the first time some right-wing shitbag factions have appropriated stuff.

Yeah, normally I would have thought the same and just ignored this but it was being shared around by a few SRA people so I guess I assumed it was on the up-and-up.

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Nineball
Mar 27, 2010


Nothing to add, just wanted to say thanks for making this thread. Sent in my dues and I'm excited to see a Houston chapter!

Noam Chomsky
Apr 4, 2019






Nineball posted:

Nothing to add, just wanted to say thanks for making this thread. Sent in my dues and I'm excited to see a Houston chapter!

You're welcome! I'm excited for this coronavirus nightmare to end so I can actually, you know, meet people and enjoy range days and participate in the mutual aid programs.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

DeesGrandpa posted:

They're all absolutely stocks. All the internet lawyering about optics, sling mounts, removing or adding straps (as the original sig brace had, but many new ones dont), and shouldering doesn't really change the fact that the only thing keeping them legal is an ATF technical decision (which they have been known to reverse). I'd be amazed if a magnified optic had any bearing on someone getting brace hosed.

Yep. It's only a matter of time before the ATF changes their mind and makes a ton of wanna-be operators into paper felons.

Target Practice
Aug 20, 2004

Shit.

Yeah I won't touch a brace with a ten foot pole.

Problematic Soup
Feb 18, 2007

My soup has malfunctioned?



Liquid Communism posted:

Yep. It's only a matter of time before the ATF changes their mind and makes a ton of wanna-be operators into paper felons.


Target Practice posted:

Yeah I won't touch a brace with a ten foot pole.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



There's no list you could go on that you're not already on for posting on SA

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




As someone who has never shot or held a gun before and who's thinking of getting or at least learning how to use a gun, should I do some sort of class, or could I learn everything I need for safe shooting from the members of an SRA?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Nitrousoxide posted:

As someone who has never shot or held a gun before and who's thinking of getting or at least learning how to use a gun, should I do some sort of class, or could I learn everything I need for safe shooting from the members of an SRA?

Call around, some ranges will have safety courses and you can rent a gun for the class right there.

You could absolutely talk to SRA folks you know and check with them if they're cool with showing you the ropes with their own guns. They probably are, a lot of activists are, but it's polite to check ahead of time.

Vorkosigan
Mar 28, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Nitrousoxide posted:

As someone who has never shot or held a gun before and who's thinking of getting or at least learning how to use a gun, should I do some sort of class, or could I learn everything I need for safe shooting from the members of an SRA?

Are you still in the DC area? I'm running another of my (online at the moment) Firearm Safety and Familiarization classes this weekend for the DC and Baltimore chapters.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




Vorkosigan posted:

Are you still in the DC area? I'm running another of my (online at the moment) Firearm Safety and Familiarization classes this weekend for the DC and Baltimore chapters.

In Philly now.

wolfs
Jul 17, 2001

posted by squid gang



prior to corona my chapter was planning a group gun familiarization thing with the local DSA - itís absolutely in the purview and spirit of the SRA to educate people

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


I'm in the MI chapter now. It's pretty alright.

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007



my local is pretty swell but national slack is at times largely representative of the sort of folks that really turn me off leftist groups. there's currently a discussion in which one side seems actively offended by the idea that some people in the gun club like guns and are into talking about them

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012



Wangsbig posted:

my local is pretty swell but national slack is at times largely representative of the sort of folks that really turn me off leftist groups. there's currently a discussion in which one side seems actively offended by the idea that some people in the gun club like guns and are into talking about them

What the gently caress are they doing in there then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TF7qWoFOS8

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007



idk there is a subset of leftist that invades nearly every space I've been in who's only true concern is Their Experience and the vast importance of it and they are unable to integrate into a community that doesn't coddle these notions in favor of a greater purpose

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Sounds like liberals to me. Which aren't really leftists, but they usually get welcomed into leftist spaces as non-conservatives anyways, then cause problems when they're incompatible with various aspects of leftism, like community defence and political revolution. They're not really there to arm the working class, they're there to be some sort of woke progressive arbiter of guns. It's just another lanyard for them. I tend to be pretty reflexively anti-liberal, because it can be frustrating to deal with them in some contexts, but that sort of perspective is probably untenable for a national organization whose primary enlightenment they offer people is "Wait, I can own a gun and not vote for Trump?"

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Jehde posted:

That sort of perspective is probably untenable for a national organization whose primary enlightenment they offer people is "Wait, I can own a gun and not vote for Trump?"
That thought is probably ground-shaking for millions of people.

wolfs
Jul 17, 2001

posted by squid gang



Wangsbig posted:

my local is pretty swell but national slack is at times largely representative of the sort of folks that really turn me off leftist groups. there's currently a discussion in which one side seems actively offended by the idea that some people in the gun club like guns and are into talking about them

i just read that thread- it got wildly toxic towards the end

Hayden is a goon, aren't they? i feel like i recognize the name. i worry for the future of the SRA beyond local chapters being nice if online can get so heated over a casual "some people are uncomfortable" comment

Sex Weirdo
Jul 24, 2007



Mambo No. 5 posted:

I'm in the MI chapter now. It's pretty alright.

Where do you shoot? I'm looking for good ranges in SW MI.

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007



wolfs posted:

i just read that thread- it got wildly toxic towards the end

Hayden is a goon, aren't they? i feel like i recognize the name. i worry for the future of the SRA beyond local chapters being nice if online can get so heated over a casual "some people are uncomfortable" comment

I'm more worried about ppl melting down so completely over something so banal. I am concerned about these people being around my person while armed. the folks in my local are fine but pretty openly depressed

Nineball
Mar 27, 2010


wolfs posted:

i just read that thread- it got wildly toxic towards the end

Hayden is a goon, aren't they? i feel like i recognize the name. i worry for the future of the SRA beyond local chapters being nice if online can get so heated over a casual "some people are uncomfortable" comment

Wangsbig posted:

I'm more worried about ppl melting down so completely over something so banal. I am concerned about these people being around my person while armed. the folks in my local are fine but pretty openly depressed

I think it was upthread that someone mentioned that the slack is regarded as a terrible tool for organizing and despite my time (maybe because of?) spent online I definitely have to agree that having a 4k person slack and/or Discourse forum is definitely a way for things to fall apart due to online discourse. It definitely strikes me as something having loooong since lived past its usefulness, especially in the current time that we're in where everyone is having their normal routines disrupted indefinitely due to a plague.

As for depression, does it seem like a general malaise or a low point? Not to pry, but I feel like it's fair to feel really disorganized or hesitant at this moment, since so many things are flux, from coast to coast to even peoples own personal lives.

Sarrisan
Oct 9, 2012


I feel like there is always going to be an issue when an org apparently has thousands of members yet important decisions are being made in conversations between like 5 people in a slack thread. I dunno who I agree with in this particular case but jeez. There's gotta be a better way.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Sarrisan posted:

I feel like there is always going to be an issue when an org apparently has thousands of members yet important decisions are being made in conversations between like 5 people in a slack thread. I dunno who I agree with in this particular case but jeez. There's gotta be a better way.

An organization Iím a member of recently had a similar problem. The discord channel was jut too high velocity which meant every little thing seemed to demand immediate attention, which in turn led to some hasty decisions and a feeling of constant crisis. There was also the issue quoted, that it felt like decisions were being driven by whoever was online at the time.

In discord there is an option to slow down the posting. I forget where it was as I wasnít the channel admin but you can set a limit - be it 5 seconds or 5 minutes - on posting your next comment to the chat. It helps slow poo poo down and encourage more thought out responses.

We also ended up making an effort to push communication back onto a forum. One of the big issues with disc for organizational stuff is that itís not easy to page back and see what was discussed yesterday, and responding directly to those things isnít clean either. A forum with a quote feature works a lot better for that. Making discrete threads for issues in a forum also feels cleaner than different channels somehow, although I canít put my finger on why.

Finally Iíve noticed that discord encourages an always online mentality in a way forums donít. I mean forums do that too (looking at you SAF) but not nearly as badly. This can really exacerbate the issues I outlined above.

Really, very few organizations face crises that need - or can have - an immediate resolution in the next couple hours. Those that do have things like dispatchers to handle the flow of information about them. Slowing down the conversation a bit goes a long way towards decreasing the crisis and siege mentality and leads to better decision making in the long term.

Target Practice
Aug 20, 2004

Shit.

Ugh, just checked my local shooting sports club which has a private section at the public range. Their dumbass application says membership is contingent on NRA membership and it has you sign that stupid pledge.

Oh well gently caress it, I'll do a lot for a private range I guess.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


Sex Weirdo posted:

Where do you shoot? I'm looking for good ranges in SW MI.

I'm SE MI and I shoot at Ortonville DNR range or Close Quarters Tactical indoor range. I prefer outdoor because I like rifles. I don't know any SW ranges. DNR website had a list of public funded ranges though, so check that out.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Target Practice posted:

Ugh, just checked my local shooting sports club which has a private section at the public range. Their dumbass application says membership is contingent on NRA membership and it has you sign that stupid pledge.

Oh well gently caress it, I'll do a lot for a private range I guess.

Yeah this is sadly a pretty common issue. The NRA does/did a poo poo ton for keeping ranges open and helping them get going with programs, insurance, standards, all that kinda poo poo, so a lot of ranges require membership. It's a shame this obviously cant be separated from their politics, and that there's no other organization offering similar services to displace them.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Target Practice posted:

Ugh, just checked my local shooting sports club which has a private section at the public range. Their dumbass application says membership is contingent on NRA membership and it has you sign that stupid pledge.

Oh well gently caress it, I'll do a lot for a private range I guess.

There's a lot of ranges that don't actually follow up once you sign up. I paid for one year of NRA to join my current range then let it lapse and no one has ever mentioned it since.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade




Cyrano4747 posted:

Really, very few organizations face crises that need - or can have - an immediate resolution in the next couple hours. Those that do have things like dispatchers to handle the flow of information about them. Slowing down the conversation a bit goes a long way towards decreasing the crisis and siege mentality and leads to better decision making in the long term.

The other thing to consider - and this is something that Discords tend to be bad at (and I'd assume Slack as well) is that fewer of them have defined rules that are well understood and communicated. Even forums often struggle with this - see the recent announcement inserted into everyone's bookmarks. The larger any organization gets, the more actual organization it needs. That's why a company of 8 people doesn't necessarily need a dedicated HR department, and a Discord of 8 people isn't likely to need much moderation.

The other half of the coin is that the nature of a chat lends itself better to freeform discussion rather than structured discourse (this also goes back to having threads vs. channels), which makes rules more challenging to agree on and enforce. This is a challenge because conversation benefits a lot from inflection, pace of speaking, and a general sense of who you're talking too - I can tell when my friends are joking because I have a better sense of their humor and what they take seriously. The formality of discourse again is the differentiator, because while shitposting is absolutely a thing, it's frequently easier to spot and handle vs. trying to figure out who is genuinely an rear end in a top hat vs. just screwing around. It isn't necessarily the speed so much as the expectations - less formal and smaller groups can get away with having far more freedom of conversation.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


DeesGrandpa posted:

Yeah this is sadly a pretty common issue. The NRA does/did a poo poo ton for keeping ranges open and helping them get going with programs, insurance, standards, all that kinda poo poo, so a lot of ranges require membership. It's a shame this obviously cant be separated from their politics, and that there's no other organization offering similar services to displace them.

Use their policy against them. Take their help and be against their ideals. Like taking corporate money to talk about how corporations suck.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Mambo No. 5 posted:

Use their policy against them. Take their help and be against their ideals. Like taking corporate money to talk about how corporations suck.

I may be missing a key part of how paying to join the NRA so you can use a range they helped is sticking it to the NRA

Sarrisan
Oct 9, 2012


Man I'm so privileged to just be a 30 min drive from public shooting land. I dread the day I move to a city where I have to use private ranges again.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


DeesGrandpa posted:

I may be missing a key part of how paying to join the NRA so you can use a range they helped is sticking it to the NRA

I should have elaborated. Use the NRA to establish a range then be inclusive and not fear mongery. You know, the opposite of the NRA.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019



Is there even a way to check another person's NRA membership status? When I applied for a membership years ago to join a range, they never sent me a physical membership card, just a PDF of a printable card. After my one year membership was up I edited the PDF to say "LIFE MEMBER" and printed it out again and nobody has ever called me out on it.

E4C85D38
Feb 7, 2010

Doesn't that thing only
hold six rounds...?


This thread reminded me to finally join up now that I have the dues from the recent windfall. Hoping to hit up a meeting soon.

As for ironsights paint, I'm weird and prefer red front, green rear. The extra contrast helps me a lot with getting a better sight picture from drawing.

Comfy sponk
Mar 30, 2007



CainFortea posted:

There's a lot of ranges that don't actually follow up once you sign up. I paid for one year of NRA to join my current range then let it lapse and no one has ever mentioned it since.

poo poo, I fudged some credit card number numbers on the application and haven't heard anything. Someone else did that and I copied that. If you go that route, do it on the first 4 that calls out the CC type/bank.

Target Practice
Aug 20, 2004

Shit.

Comfy sponk posted:

poo poo, I fudged some credit card number numbers on the application and haven't heard anything. Someone else did that and I copied that. If you go that route, do it on the first 4 that calls out the CC type/bank.

This owns.

Beowulfs_Ghost
Nov 6, 2009




Got my invite to the SRA forums.

Haven't got one for slack yet, but it doesn't sound like I'm missing out on much there.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


The forums seems pretty slow to me, but not everywhere is SA.

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Beowulfs_Ghost
Nov 6, 2009


Mambo No. 5 posted:

The forums seems pretty slow to me, but not everywhere is SA.

Yah. Not the most happening place.

Got my Slack invite, and it is way more active. But it definitely isn't designed to handle this much chatter.


Now I just have to wait for the social distancing to let up yo go out to some meets.

At least I live near BLM and NF land, and it is still open. Just the campgrounds and bathrooms are closed.

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