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Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!






Conspiracy

Alright, folks. A whole lot of us are stuck inside. Seems as good a time as any to start up a new LP, yeah?

The name of the game is Diplomacy. Or, well, Conspiracy is the name of the game, but it's an app version of the classic board game by Allan Calhamer, where seven players vie to conquer World War I Europe. If you know the rules, then I needn't explain them here. The app is very faithful to the board game. For those of you unfamiliar, here's a quick blurb:

Each player aims to move their few starting units and defeat those of others to win possession of a majority of strategic cities and provinces marked as "supply centers" on the map; these supply centers allow players who control them to produce more units.

The winner of the game is the first to reach the target number of SCs. (18 in the base game, see below).


Image shows starting positions and units of the standard Europe Diplomacy map.

Now the biggest feature of Diplomacy--and the one that I find most exciting--is that there is no random chance involved. Unlike other strategy games reliant on dice, such as Axis and Allies or Risk, Diplomacy relies entirely on human choices and cooperation. No cooperation? You're gonna lose the game. Cooperate too much? Well, someone'll probably backstab you eventually... This is one of the original "games that will ruin friendships". At least Monopoly had some random chance in it. If you gently caress over someone in Diplomacy, that is a choice you have to willingly make and you have to own it.

To quickly review the game rules for new players (These are pulled directly from the Conspiracy app's website):

Badfrog Conspiracy Game Rules posted:

Players and empires
The game is played by seven players. Each player represents one of the great European empires at the dawn of the 20th century (Austria, England, France, Germany, Italy, Russia and Turkey).

Objective
The objective of Conspiracy is to be the first to control 18 supply centers. However, players can end the game by agreement before a winner is determined. In this case, all players who still have units on board (armies or fleets) share equally in a draw.

Conquer new supply centers to gain new units. Empire possessed one unit per controlled supply centers.

Board
The board is divided in provinces. There are three types of provinces : inland, water and coastal. Only Armies move on inland provinces and only Fleets move on water provinces. A coastal province is land that is adjacent to one or more water provinces. Supply centers is province marked by star.

All units have the same strength. No one Army or Fleet is more powerful than another. During the game, various units will support each other to increase their strength and attack weaker adversaries.

There can only be one unit in a province at a time.

Overview
Conspiracy is a game of negotiations, alliances, promises kept and promises broken. In order to survive, you need help from others players. In order to win, you must probably stand alone (choosing the good time). Knowing whom to trust, when ti trust them, what to promise and when to promise, it is the heart of the game. Keep in mind you are a diplomat first and you won’t count on luck to win but only your skill to negotiate

Conspiracy is a turn-based game. A turn is delimited by a deadline (defined during game creation). Players have all the turn duration to negotiate with other players and validate their orders. At the end of a turn, orders are all resolved. Some units are moved, some have to retreat and some are removed. Resolution are automatically managed by the server.

A game is divided in years and each year is divided in 5 phases :
- Spring (move/diplomatic phase)
- Summer (retreat/disband phase)
- Autumn (move/diplomatic phase)
- Winter (retreat/disband phase)
- Adjustment (gaining or losing units phase)

Types of orders
On each move turn (Spring and Autumn) , each empire can order all, some or none of its units to do one of the following :
- Hold
- Move
- Support (to attack or to defend)
- Convoy (only armies can be convoyed and only fleets can convoy armies)

On each retreat phase (Summer or Winter), each empire which units have been dislodged can order one of the following :
- Retreat (in adjacent free province)
- Disband

On each adjustment phase, each concerned empire can order one of the following :
- Unit creation (if empires own more supply centers than units)
- Unit destruction (if empires own less supply centers than units

Simple, no?

If you want a more detailed explanation of how the rules work, the app's webpage gives a good break down: http://badfrog.info/conspiracy/en/orders_resolution/

Or, you could always download the app and run the tutorial. It takes you through every possible order in the game so you see how it works. It's fairly intuitive. The big different between this app and the board game is you need to specify whether you are providing Support defensively or offensively, and that Retreat Phases get their own turn. Otherwise, I assure you, it's fairly intuitive. The app won't let you make orders that are impossible: https://play.google.com/store/apps/...cy.app&hl=en_US

(Sadly, this game only runs on Androids).

Anyways!

If you are interested in play, please download the app and create a username. Let me now what your username is and I will invite you to a game. And, well, I will LP it for the benefit of the rest of the subforum! Those of you who want to watch rather than play, hey, take bets! I'm sure we can come up with some appropriate forum prizes.

I would like to have at least 6 people for a standard 7-player game. If there's a whole bunch of people interested, we could go for one of the larger maps, such as Crowded Europe or North America. If this goes well, I am open to running multiple games... but let's see how we do with one for now.

Sally fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 25, 2020

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Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





Classic - Europe 1901

Players : : Nation
Dash Rendar - Germany
oldskool - France† 1906
circlmastr - Italy† 1909
Dr. Snark - Russia†
Danaru - Austria-Hungary
ProfFrink - Ottoman Empire
Enchanted Hat - United Kingdom

The Turn of the 20th Century
Spring 1901
Fall 1901
Spring 1902
Fall 1902
Spring 1903
Fall 1903
Spring 1904
Fall 1904
Spring 1905
Fall 1905
Spring 1906
Fall 1906†
(France Postmortem)
Spring 1907
Fall 1907
Spring 1908
Fall 1908
Spring 1909
Fall 1909†
(Italy Postmortem)
Spring 1910
Fall 1910
Spring 1911
Fall 1911
Spring 1912
Fall 1912
Spring 1913
Fall 1913†
(Russia Postmortem)
Spring 1914
Fall 1914
Spring 1915
Fall 1915
Spring 1916
Fall 1916
Spring 1917
Fall 1917
Spring 1918
Fall 1918
1919
1920


MagusofStars posted:

SUMMARY OF ALL RUNNING BETS:
So it hasn't really made a difference yet, but Diplomacy can sometimes speed up later in the game as you approach the "one player can unilaterally wipe someone else off the map" levels, so new rule:
All votes must by in prior to the Spring 1911 update (i.e., two days from now). Ideally everybody could get theirs in even earlier than that so everybody's voting on the same current playing field, but I know not everyone is watching this thread like a hawk, so I don't want to be too strict.

Next country to get eliminated: Immediately after a country gets knocked out, everybody can bet on the next country to be eliminated. Every time you’re right, you get a point, top score at the end wins the category.
Round 2 completed! Congratulations to bunnyofdoom, Eeepies, koolkevz666, silvergoose (2), Tevery Best for correctly predicting Italy's boot would trip and fall into oblivion.
Round 1 completed! Congratulations to silvergoose, Jobbo_Fett, Namtab, Old Grey Guy for correctly betting on France to get wiped off the map.

Current player scores:
2 points: silvergoose
1 point: bunnyofdoom, Eeepies, Jobbo_Fett, koolkevz666, Namtab, Old Grey Guy, Tevery Best

Active bets for next county out:
Austria-Hungary (10): bunnyofdoom, Eeepies, Jobbo_Fett, koolkevz666, MagusofStars, Namtab, silvergoose, Tevery Best, Xelkelvos, wologar
Britain (1): biosterous
Germany (3): Coward, HisMajestyBOB, ZiegeDame
Russia (0):
Turkey (1): Pea

Overall winner: Since we already have two countries more than halfway to the winning total of SC's, no more votes will be accepted for this.
Austria-Hungary (5): Cythereal, Jesenjin, Mirrors, Namtab, Old Grey Guy
Britain (2): biosterous, Rocket Baby Dolls
France (1): wologar
Germany (1): Eeepies
Italy (4): anilEhilated, Gamerofthegame, HisMajestyBOB, Jobbo_Fett
Russia (4): Coward, Dav, MagusofStars, Tevery Best
Turkey (2): Akratic Method, silvergoose
Joint France/UK (1): bunnyofdoom

EDIT: Votes current as of 4/19 at 9:00 am.

Sally fucked around with this message at 21:35 on May 17, 2020

oldskool
Aug 9, 2010





Lipstick Apathy

sign me up!
username is the same as forum name

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





Heck yeah! Gonna wait and see how many we get before I start sending out invites. So your Conspiracy inbox will be silent for now.

CirclMastr
Jul 4, 2010



Sign me up, just downloaded the app and username matches forum name.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS



I will never, ever play this game again because I can't convince anyone to do anything, but I'll happily bookmark and watch. Suggestion for others, maps with arrows and anything else that makes watching better would be much appreciated!

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

I'm betting Italy will win.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





silvergoose posted:

I will never, ever play this game again because I can't convince anyone to do anything, but I'll happily bookmark and watch. Suggestion for others, maps with arrows and anything else that makes watching better would be much appreciated!

good news! the app does the whole arrow thing so you can easily track map movement

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Jobbo_Fett posted:

I'm betting Italy will win.

I'm feeling Austria.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Cythereal posted:

I'm feeling Austria.

fool, italy is the most op nation

Dr. Snark
Oct 15, 2012

I'M SORRY, OK!? I admit I've made some mistakes, and Jones has clearly paid for them.
...
But ma'am! Jones' only crime was looking at the wrong files!
...
I beg of you, don't ship away Jones, he has a wife and kids!

-United Nations Intelligence Service

Hell with it, I'm throwing my hat in the ring. Can't wait to play and be outplayed.

Edit: Forgot to mention in it the earlier post: same username for both systems.

Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Mar 26, 2020

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012


Hell yeah I don't know what's going on but I want in. Username is Danaru in the game too

Danaru fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 25, 2020

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





People are making bets and we haven't even picked a map yet!

(we need a few more players...)

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





specifically, we need at least two more.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


I played this once. Never again. I look forward to seeing it unfold though.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





Jobbo_Fett posted:

I'm betting Italy will win.

Gamerofthegame posted:

fool, italy is the most op nation

Also, for people who have never played Diplomacy before, these are pretty good shitposts. Of all the nations in the game, Italy is generally considered to be at the biggest disadvantage and least likely to win. From one dude:

Stephen Agar posted:

Italy is the Power on the Diplomacy board which inspires both irrational obsessional love in some, while to others the thought of being stuck on four green units for years (in both game time and real time) brings only a Venetian sinking feeling. It certainly isn't going to give you your best chance of an outright win, as the stats suggest that of all Powers, Italy is the most unlikely to win the game (R=17.7%; G=17.13%; F=16.57%; T=14.89%; A=11.89%; E=11.14%; I=10.67%). If Diplomacy was a perfectly balanced game you could expect to win 14.29% of the time, but it isn't and if you are playing Italy then you certainly won't.


White Coke posted:

I played this once. Never again. I look forward to seeing it unfold though.



That's fair. This game. This game...

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010



College Slice

Italy was my first win!
I don't have time to commit to playing, but I will follow.

GuavaMoment
Aug 13, 2006

YouTube dude


Jobbo_Fett posted:

I'm betting Italy will win.

I had to check - I played a diplomacy game here on SA over twelve(!) years ago and won as Italy. It can be done.

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.



Can you somehow combine the rulesets of Diplomacy and Pandemic?

NeoRonTheNeuron
Oct 14, 2012


There's also a gunboat variant of Diplomacy where nobody communicates. I don't know if that's more or less stressful than the base game, but I'd guess that that the center powers (Austria/Italy) fare even worse than usual.

1234567890num
Oct 6, 2017



How badly would a newcomer fare? This game seems like a very complicated one.

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.



The rules themselves are very simple, and everything is nice and deterministic. The strategy is a bit less simple, but you can wing it as long as you're sufficiently evil. By far the hardest part of the game is getting people to trust you as you prepare to sink in the knife.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012




1234567890num posted:

How badly would a newcomer fare? This game seems like a very complicated one.
A newbie would do fine. The heart of the game isn't about rules-lawyering or knowing minor quirks of the game set, it's about being able to convince and bullshit others.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.


Haven't played in awhile, but I'm in.
Account name is the same as the Forums name.

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


Diplomacy has newbie-friendly rules, but I wouldn't say it's a newbie-friendly game.

Moving your mans around isn't that complex, the goals are pretty obvious and there are plenty of tools available you can use for planning. You can reasonably expect to not gently caress up your orders and have your mans move where you want them to first time through. So, sure, in that sense a newbie will do fine.

However, much of the strategy of the game revolves around reading your opponents likely moves from their various statements of questionable veracity plus the board position. That means knowing what is and isn't a good unit position, when you're in a stalemate, what moves antagonize whom, and how to take stuff with your current ally-of-convenience without opening your back for the stab. If you're used to cutthroat bastard boardgames and are willing to experiment with moves in a freeware version before committing you can probably do well enough, but you'll probably make a few mistakes. Complete newbies tend to find their first game, uh, harsh.

This said, the most important skills in Dippy aren't really about good strategy on the board: they're talking to everyone all the time, replying promptly to everything and always being available as everyone's first partner in any scheme. If you've got a few weeks free and think you are both more gregarious and more devious than the average nerd then go for it.


The biggest newbie misdirect in the game is the name, really. Diplomacy sounds like the name of a nice game about elder statesmen talking things out in a frank and forthright manner. Actual Diplomacy is very much not that thing.

Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 27, 2020

GuavaMoment
Aug 13, 2006

YouTube dude


Xerophyte posted:

This said, the most important skills in Dippy aren't really about good strategy on the board: they're talking to everyone all the time, replying promptly to everything and always being available as everyone's first partner in any scheme.

I'll echo this. Your current enemy might be your future ally. If you don't keep talking to your enemies, they'll never have a chance become your friends. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer, and the enemy of my enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

oldskool
Aug 9, 2010





Lipstick Apathy

MagusofStars posted:

A newbie would do fine. The heart of the game isn't about rules-lawyering or knowing minor quirks of the game set, it's about being able to convince and bullshit others.

echoing this. New players lose for the same reason experienced players lose: trusted the wrong person at the wrong time.

GuavaMoment posted:

I'll echo this. Your current enemy might be your future ally. If you don't keep talking to your enemies, they'll never have a chance become your friends. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer, and the enemy of my enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

also this. Talk to everybody, about everything, even if they're nowhere near you, because the goon nobody's heard from is the easiest goon to team up against.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



oldskool posted:

also this. Talk to everybody, about everything, even if they're nowhere near you, because the goon nobody's heard from is the easiest goon to team up against.

And don't hold it against people when they throw you under a bus. Remember, but don't hold a grudge.

I once played this game in real life with my family when I was home for Christmas from undergrad. It's been ten years and we still give my mom (Austria) poo poo for abruptly shoving my dad (Russia) into the buzzsaw that was my aunt (Germany), then stabbing my aunt in the back to wipe out both Germany and Russia, which she quickly used to demolish me (England) and win the game.

1234567890num
Oct 6, 2017



I think I'll pass for now and see how the game actually plays out first. The "deception" part sounds more devious than Werewolf/Mafia.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





Current count is six. We need at least 1 more player:

Dash "Blind Sally" Rendar
oldskool
circlmastr
Dr. Snark
Danaru
ProfFrink

Also echoing a lot of the comments regarding the easylearn/hardtomaster aspect. The game is real simple--the hardest strategy to learn is reading people and prediciting what they'll do, but that remains a challenge even with expert players. I enter every game with the expectation that I'll probably lose, but with intent to cause as much damage as I can, and am always pleasantly surprised when I when.

But yeah always be talking to people!

I wont be showing direct chats during the LP... one I can aside from mine... but secret treaties are a thing with Diplomacy. Global chat will be seen and of course we can discuss, cajole, threaten, and argue in thread!

Also also, we can make the game more newbie friendly by picking an alternate map. While Classic Europe has been done for decades and has extensive tips and strategies written about it online, the others don't.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





1234567890num posted:

The "deception" part sounds more devious than Werewolf/Mafia.

An accurate statement. I can put together some stories and examples of meltdowns I've witnessed if the thread is interested.

1234567890num
Oct 6, 2017



I'm interested. It's always fun to watch a meltdown.

1234567890num fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 26, 2020

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013






Dash Rendar posted:

An accurate statement. I can put together some stories and examples of meltdowns I've witnessed if the thread is interested.

Yes yes please do!

My favourite story about Diplomacy comes from my brother, where after playing for several hours one of his friends took off his own prosthetic leg and chased another friend, threatening to beat him with it.

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.



I'd join if I had an Android device lying around, but no such luck. Looking forward to stories of intrigue, though! Someone go get Purple from the Dominions thread. He loves betrayal.

Akratic Method fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 26, 2020

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010



I used to run diplomacy games in LP a while ago. I don't have an android devide but i will be watching this thread with great interest

Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





Akratic Method posted:

I'd join if I had an Android device lying around, but no such luck. Looking forward to stories of intrigue, though! Someone go get Purple from the Dominions thread. He loves betrayal.

tell them to check the thread!

maybe i should see if anyone in TG wants to join. hmmm... but where to post.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AALVjklpxo

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

I can't dedicate myself to playing but I love watching Diplothreads. Thanks for letting us know this is going down!

Enchanted Hat
Aug 18, 2013

Defeated in Diplomacy under suspicious circumstances


I'm down for some deceit deviousness distrust duplicity double-dealing dishonesty diplomacy!

EDIT: Username is Enchanted Hat SA

Enchanted Hat fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Mar 27, 2020

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Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim is now a BLOOD salamander!





Yesss, we now have seven. I'm gonna leave this open today for more potential sign ups, as I just shilled this thread in TG.

- Seven is good for a standard WWI Europe map or the Canton map (Colonial Asia at the turn of the 20th century).
- Eight is less than desirable as the South America map is imo inferior and too easy to descend into a stalemate.
- There's no 9-player map, but 10 or 11 work for North America and Crowded Europe respectively.

Regardless, I plan to start the game proper this evening. (about 12 hours from this post). If we stick to seven, we should decide as a group whether we want to play Classic Europe or Canton.

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