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ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.
Haven't played in awhile, but I'm in.
Account name is the same as the Forums name.

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ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Enchanted Hat posted:

respects the sovereignty of all the minor nations
Was I supposed to do this? I may need to change my orders.

E: Turkey here. Delicious turkey

ProfFrink fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Mar 28, 2020

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.
Yeah, I got played. Bravo to Austria and Italy ( I will crush you!)

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Dr. Snark posted:


So now that things have moved to this point, I think it's safe to explain why I (Russia) was unwilling to move to the south until now, to give you all some insight into the behind the scenes machinations of the early turns.
Turkey here, with my view on the opening moves.
When I started talking with you and Austria I was figuring that we'd agree to a three way split.
I was hopping to have an agreement that would put the three of us in relatively equal positions going into the second year, and see how the rest of the board looked. Obviously didn't happen, I'm not used to seeing Austria and Italy being friends, those adjacent supply centers and all...

GuavaMoment posted:

Turkey's gone full Turkey. Good luck!

I'm just role playing the sick old man of Europe...

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Dr. Snark posted:

Actually, based on how things were going in game, I'd sincerely argue that they were too committed to finishing off Turkey.

Not that I'm biased or anything, but I would agree.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

NeoRonTheNeuron posted:


It's slightly weird that Turkey chose to build another army instead of a fleet in Constantinople. If they really do want to fight Russia, a fleet provides more flexibility in that region.


This would probably have been a better move. There's been a few times in this game where I wish I had built the other unit.
There's land to take so I need armies to support inland, but there's the big old Med there too so I need fleets.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Veryslightlymad posted:

I have decided that Turkey is the plucky underdog hero and everyone else is a bastard.

See! This is what I've been trying to tell everyone.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Xerophyte posted:

a spherical Austria-Hungary in a vacuum

As a former physics major I just wanted to say that I love this!

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Xerophyte posted:

Incidentally, Turkey not getting in to tri is a big deal: it means that they likely cannot hold vie or rum against the Germans this year. England, in contrast, will only maybe get ven if Germany decides they want to be nice.

Yep. Spoiler alert - I'm hosed

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.
God dammit. I guess that does explain some things. :suicide:

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

ZiegeDame posted:

England has been making bizarre pro-Germany plays that don't benefit them in any way for at least half the game,
Yeah, this (and Germany passing up some good stabs) made the whole thing pretty plausible.

MagusofStars posted:

How do draws work in the app?
3.) Do you get to see how the vote went or just "draw failed"?
I think it just says draw declined, it may tell you who declined it first but not the full vote.


Enchanted Hat posted:

Don't worry, they won't die slowly
I know my playing was an unmitigated failure, but you don't have to be an rear end about it.
I could have drawn things out, but didn't see the point. Especially as, even if you weren't the same player, for all it mattered I was fighting against over 2:1 odds.
I'm not terrible at orders, but there was nothing I could really do. Despite all your claims of some sort of "epic" showdown.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Xerophyte posted:

I think the inevitable conclusion to this line of play is that Germany wins and England loses. If I was playing Turkey in this position, I would consider the goal of all my moves to be convincing England to agree with me on that. I'd try to do this by pointing out the current EG power imbalance and the lack of any reasonable ways for him to reach a 17 SC tie. If that didn't work, I'd try to intentionally throw that EG imbalance further towards Germany by sacrificing SCs to them. That's a little hard to do safely right now since Germany is so close to an outright win -- a fact that should make England even more keen on helping you stop Germany -- but you can do things like F ADR S ven to make your willingness to force their hand clear.

Ultimately the goal is to force England to help you keep Anatolia and ideally the Balkans. Note that it's impossible for Germany (or anyone) to take Anatolia without fleet support. Units in arm and con cannot be dislodged with armies alone. Likewise the alb - ser - bul line can't be taken without fleet support.


To me this is a "good" illustration of one of the "fun" quirks of Diplomacy that makes it divisive: to enjoy the game you kind of have to enjoy playing out positions like this where you're furiously maneuvering against superior force for a part in the draw, because this is most games. Assuming you're playing equal strength players then you manage a solo in maybe 5% of your games, probably less. In the other 95% you'll either be eliminated, have your offense ground to a halt against a superior alliance, or have to desperately defend for placement against a superior alliance. If you don't find playing through those things fun then almost all of your games will suck.

I'll write up a summary a bit later, although Hat already covered a lot of it. But I do want to point out that I think this shows one of the weaknesses of online/play-by-email. It does offer a lot of advantages (mostly being able to find 7 people willing to play this monster, especially more than once), the games can seriously drag on. I probably could have worked a little harder (or at all tbh) toward the end to break up the EG alliance, although given Hat's summary it probably wouldn't have worked, but I was getting pretty burnt out. Between E&G working so closely together and Germany supporting Austria it seemed like the only thing I could do would be to delay the inevitable, which I'd enjoy doing in the first 10-15 turns of the game, but which lost its appeal after two months or whatever.

If this was an in person game at this point I could just sulk by the snack table and write quick fortress Turkey orders while chatting with the eliminated players and stuffing my face.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.
Yeah, I agree 100%. If it looked like they were even wary of each other I'd have felt differently, but as it stood the game just seemed like a foregone conclusion.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.
Too bad they don't have this variant.

ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

Dash Rendar posted:

Holy Details Batman!

Sorry for the delay everyone, pesky real life reared it's ugly head!
So, I'm not going to post in as much detail as Dash, but I'll give a general overview of my view of things.

First off, I've been interested in the game for 20ish years now. Unfortunately, the interest hasn't translated into too many games. I've probably played 10ish games over that time.
This was the first I had played in years which translated into me being a bit rusty/cautious in the first few turns.

Secondly, I really don't like playing Turkey!

At the start of the game, I wanted to take advantage of my bottom corner decent defensive position to turtle a bit and see how the initial moves and alliances worked out. I reached out to Austria and Russia to try to split up the Balkans and got some positive responses. I contacted Italy and tried to point them away from Greece, which they agreed to in chat, but not on the board.
From there, it quickly became pretty obvious that Italy and Austria were both 1) working as an unbreakable unit and 2) out for a delicious Thanksgiving dinner.
I was able to hold them off long enough for the rest of the board to see the threat and agree to band together to crush them.

Dash already covered Russia's somewhat heavy handed messages above. Those, combined with an earlier squabble over defensive orders that I needed to play instead of supporting one of Russia's attacks (Sorry Snark, you hit one of my big pet peeves!), made it an easy choice to throw in with the seemingly weaker Austria and Germany to stab Russia and England. My plan was to ride that alliance through the destruction of Russia while mostly holding in the Med. Then, when Germany and England were well into it, I was going to stab Austria (REVENGE!) and push England out of the Med.

The initial stab of Russia didn't go as planed. I thought I was going to go +2 or +3 centers, but with Russia's surprise stab at Ank, and the open center that Russia was able to retreat to (incidentally, one of my favorite things the game allows. I'm really mad at myself that I missed it!) I only got 1 build.

After that, Germany and England made a few lunges at each other, but nothing that would weaken England in the Med. I attacked Austria with some success, but was unable to push him out of the game before the Germgland 20+ unit juggernaut descended. It became pretty obvious that 1) those two were working as an unbreakable unit and 2) that while I could draw things out with some defensive play, there was nothing I could do to prevent being pushed back and eventually eliminated. I proposed a draw, was declined, tried and failed one final time to eliminate Austria, and decided that enough was enough and bowed out.

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ProfFrink
Nov 7, 2007

"Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.
Gang Tags would be cool!

If Android is a hindrance, there's a good number of other places to play. From memory both
http://webdiplomacy.net/ and https://www.playdiplomacy.com/ exist, although I can't speak for their interface/features.

There's also the old pbem judge system, although that's harder to use and to get maps out of.

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