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Sockser
Jun 28, 2007

OBSERVE



I really enjoyed the first Maruki fight, and was disappointed that they got easier and less fun as they went

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Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010




The Great Twist

I thought the Maruki fights were great. Definitely helped by the soundtrack though.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Sockser posted:

I really enjoyed the first Maruki fight, and was disappointed that they got easier and less fun as they went

One issue that applies to a lot of the fights in P5 in general (at least on Hard difficulty) is that winning essentially comes down to keeping your team buffed and the enemy debuffed (by my understanding having played original P5 on Normal and P5R on Hard, Hard mode is basically just Normal Mode except you need to make sure you're buffed and the enemy is debuffed constantly). That is generally sufficient to prevent your team from dying, and if you can prevent your team from dying it's easy to keep your health up (due to healing being very strong in P5).

Maruki Part 1 was good at shaking things up some (as where a few other boss fights, like Madarame's), but when it's just "single thing that hits hard and has no weaknesses" the winning strategy is always the same - keep buffs/debuffs up and assign one or two characters to topping up everyone's health/healing status effects every turn.

edit: In retrospect, I feel like the Persona traits making it possible to use Thermopylae kind of breaks the game, because it makes it trivially easy to keep everyone fully buffed constantly. P5R gives you too many powerful tools without increasing difficulty to match them.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jun 30, 2020

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Can I come out and play?

Sugartime Jones

Playing through Persona 4 Golden now that it hit PC; I may be horribly late to the party but I must say running into a bunch of police officer monsters, knocking them down then proceeding to send my team in to savagely beat them up on the ground is surprisingly topical for this day and age. Seem to be doing OK at the moment, but one quick question; do the various part time jobs give different amounts of whatever stat or are the ones that raise the same stat generally equal? Kind of curious if I need to be taking a particular job when there are multiple options available. Also, for the record I find it funny as hell the NPCs get the little "points up" indicator over their heads when another NPC, generally Nanako because she is personified (no pun intended), says something they like.

A Bystander
Oct 10, 2012


There's books you can read to increases stat gains from jobs but those also take some time slots and you may be better off doing just the jobs depending on how you're planning things.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

A few jobs have associated S-links too; daycare, hospital, and tutor I believe.

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality


This game took me 122 hours to finish! Longest RPG Iíve ever played.

I really like the changes they made. I felt the original final boss was a bit of a let down. Random evil god introduced at the end no personal stake vs facing a confidant youíve been building up a relationship with throughout the game.

Does persona 4G add as much as royal did like a new final boss? Iíll be getting that next it looks like.

arisu
Apr 11, 2003


Without getting into too many spoilers, the extra dungeon added for P4G was inserted before the final boss. It does not make for a new final boss.

Captain Walker
Apr 7, 2009

Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there


Holy poo poo the new creature designs for Royal are great. I appreciate the return of some familiar faces, and by faces I mean the woman-shaped glyphs on Ailat's body, but P-Studio really outdid themselves with the Phantom Thieves' new Personas, from both an art and narrative standpoint.

I've heard that the new final boss theme is called "Throw Away Your Mask", but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the "Second Awakening R" Personas are extensions of that theme, implying that donning a mask and then discarding it are both acts of rebellion with their own power. Sure, the legendary Captain Kidd sailed a frigate with 34 cannons, and Sun Wukong is the archetypal literally immortal OP kung-fu master, please nerf. William surfs atop a yacht with a loving railgun. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Milady.

The guide I'm following wants me to wait until the 24th to hang out with Makoto; I'm going to assume this is a "save the best for last" situation, because my hype levels are through the roof.

edit: can't believe the entire Faith confidant was an extended setup for a "I want Senpai to notice me" joke it's such an incredible troll

second edit R: oh my godddd her romance route is precious, Joker stealing those hearts

Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jul 1, 2020

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

All the 3rd level Personas are very cool, but I'm partial to Morgana because Zorro had the best design so losing that was lame; Diego was a nice return to form.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

Well I just finished the Culture Festival in P4.

I'm uh... I'm definitely feeling the Hashino influence.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



Yeah the Culture Festival and subsequent stay at the Inn are what happens when your game is terminally horny and has been constantly been trying to one-up itself in terms of wacky anime hijinks for 70 hours. Every time I rewatch the Endurance Run I skip episodes 50, 100, and then whichever one that one is

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

P3 has the worst Operation Babehunt, P4 has the worst Culture Festival, and P5 has the worst School Trip. Well P5's wasn't that bad, it was just barely a thing and to be honest I'm still not sure what the narrative point of it was other than to make Okumura a bigger deal and to make Morgana sulk for a few more days.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



I saw a post that pointed out that every time the Phantom Thieves tried to do something fun as a group it tends to end in disaster. See also: the buffet after Kamoshida's palace being interrupted by 'rotten adults' and the summer festival getting rained out;.

So I guess that's just another part of that?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

There's also the Destinyland celebration, that kinda... got pretty bad.

But they did do some fun things together, like the hotpot and the beach after Futaba's palace.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

The Hawaii trip is very clearly a case of "well poo poo we thought this game was originally going to be a globetrotting adventure and already paid for the animated cutscene where the group flies there, so we've got to figure out some reason the group is there."

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



Hawaii trip could have been okay if they did literally anything with it

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

I actually kinda liked that it was a disillusioning experience for the group because they were expecting this big exotic adventure but actually they just spent a couple days in a tourist trap resort area where they just did all the same poo poo they usually do back home. It comes when the group is otherwise at their height and foreshadows that things aren't as great as they think they are. Being trapped in a hotel room with Mishima who just will not shut the gently caress up about the phansite also legit gave me flashbacks to school trips where you get roomed with the awkward goobers.

It's boring as gently caress to actually play though yeah.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Hawaii could have been replaced with the team hanging out in a random hotel for a few days and basically nothing would have changed. They could have at least given some kind of mini-Palace or a one time extension of Mementos so something more meaningful than Joker getting a beach date happened.

As of now, even the characters wonít shut up about how boring it was.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

In P4G news the Nanako kidnapping was pretty dang anime. They beat you over the head that it's going to happen days in advance, circumstances contrive to make sure you can't do anything about it because Yu decides to grab the idiot ball and open up a note he knows is from the loving killer right in front of Dojima who naturally immediately twigs over it, and then once Dojima finds out what's happening he gets in a car chase where he crashes and has to beg you from his hospital bed to finish the job.

I'm enjoying the game a lot for what it is - a cheesy JRPG from the PS2 era that bathes in anime tropes - but it has made me appreciate the much more grounded narrative of P5. Hell it's even made me appreciate some of the arbitrary roadblocks they through up for completing palaces since all of these "kidnappings" lose a lot of their teeth when you just smash the dungeon the day after the person vanishes and what was intended to be "a rash of cases where people vanish for upwards of weeks" turns into "a bunch of dipshit highschool kids are gone for a day then come back and are all coy about why."

HaB
Jan 5, 2001

What are the odds?


Anyone having trouble with the Steam version of P4G crashing?

I legit can't play through more than a couple of days without it crashing out to desktop. I verified all my drivers n poo poo are up to date. Not sure what else to try as I haven't really been a Windows user for years now.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



Sydin posted:

Hell it's even made me appreciate some of the arbitrary roadblocks they through up for completing palaces since all of these "kidnappings" lose a lot of their teeth when you just smash the dungeon the day after the person vanishes and what was intended to be "a rash of cases where people vanish for upwards of weeks" turns into "a bunch of dipshit highschool kids are gone for a day then come back and are all coy about why."

I'll say more about this when you finish the game because you're so close to the resolution, but yeah, I know what you mean

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

On the other hand, 'Futaba falls asleep for three weeks' is pretty dumb too.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



ApplesandOranges posted:

On the other hand, 'Futaba falls asleep for three weeks' is pretty dumb too.

I know we've had this conversation before but just forcing all missions to be done the day before the deadline would remove a ton of the dumb things the plot tries to do to justify that, listen, the stakes are still high even though you did the palace with three weeks left to spare!

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007



RazzleDazzleHour posted:

I know we've had this conversation before but just forcing all missions to be done the day before the deadline would remove a ton of the dumb things the plot tries to do to justify that, listen, the stakes are still high even though you did the palace with three weeks left to spare!

If the design they wanted was for people to take periodic trips into the dungeon then they could easily have done some handwaving by saying stuff like the "Palace's defenses are low" due to some storyline thing, like some mental trauma or period of stress for the palace master or whatever. And those are the times when you delve into the palace until you meet some block (usually after a miniboss) and go back to dicking around with friends and jobs until the next opportunity. As it is, I think they wanted a risk reward thing where it was supposed to be hard to go throughout the entire dungeon in one go...but that didn't really work outside of Kamoshida. Combine that with a set date to send the calling card (again storyline thing, like maybe Futaba has to finish her futaba cannon, or something stupid like Madarame will be out of the house most of x day due to some event, so its a perfect time to sneak the calling card in) so you know what day you have to enter.

As it is, I am no game designer, but it did make things feel really weird when I would blow through the dungeon completely, calling card and boss, in a single 3 day run and just get weird nonsense like Okumura dying like a month after his shadow got shot in the head

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



In this way I think that P3 had a really really cool approach to this idea which was that you only had the yearly timer to get to the top of Tartarus, the monthly deadlines were just boss battles that you needed to be "ready for," whatever that meant to you. You got bonuses for finishing a block before the month was over, but if you got stuck or just didn't care, you could put off doing a tough boss for a while until you got more social links for better fusions, or you got a nice EXP boost from the full moon boss

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

The problem is SP is meant to be the limiting factor in how deep you can go before having to retreat, but it's trivially easy to restore SP. Even moreso in Royal where you can eat curry outside of safe rooms, you make multiple cups of coffee per activity, and will seeds restore SP when obtained. Either there needed to be other roadblocks that force you out of the palace, or SP needed to be an incredibly precious resource that is almost impossible to restore outside of going back to the real world or a few very, very rare items for emergencies.

RazzleDazzleHour posted:

I know we've had this conversation before but just forcing all missions to be done the day before the deadline would remove a ton of the dumb things the plot tries to do to justify that, listen, the stakes are still high even though you did the palace with three weeks left to spare!

Yeah all they had to do was say the calling card isn't effective unless the target has reached the point where they are absolutely assured of their victory, and the shock of being challenged at that emotional peak causes the treasure to manifest. With Futaba handwave it that since she invited you into her heart and her distortions are more about her despair, she has to reach reach an emotional low before the calling card can give her hope and cause the treasure to manifest. It would have been easy to write in, actually makes some sense based on the internal logic of the game, and would get rid of stuff like Futaba's coma or Okumura surviving for weeks even though his shadow got killed long ago.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007



Sydin posted:

The problem is SP is meant to be the limiting factor in how deep you can go before having to retreat, but it's trivially easy to restore SP. Even moreso in Royal where you can eat curry outside of safe rooms, you make multiple cups of coffee per activity, and will seeds restore SP when obtained. Either there needed to be other roadblocks that force you out of the palace, or SP needed to be an incredibly precious resource that is almost impossible to restore outside of going back to the real world or a few very, very rare items for emergencies.
In royal, I think they just kinda said gently caress it, and made it easier to blow through the dungeons as the risk/reward thing doesn't work. With the will seeds, sp items you get from Jose, the hp/sp regen ability and the already busted items you can get from Takemi.............its obvious they realized people were blowing through the dungeon and just made it easier to do so.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



Madmarker posted:

In royal, I think they just kinda said gently caress it, and made it easier to blow through the dungeons as the risk/reward thing doesn't work. With the will seeds, sp items you get from Jose, the hp/sp regen ability and the already busted items you can get from Takemi.............its obvious they realized people were blowing through the dungeon and just made it easier to do so.

Yeah this makes me curious as to what the next game will be like structurally. They'll either need to come up with a much more concrete method of forcing people to actually go over the course of multiple days, or just say gently caress it, do it all at once

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality


ApplesandOranges posted:

P5 has the worst School Trip. Well P5's wasn't that bad, it was just barely a thing and to be honest I'm still not sure what the narrative point of it was other than to make Okumura a bigger deal and to make Morgana sulk for a few more days.

The Hawaii trip was like on going on a vacation and never leaving the area directly near the hotel.

I wanted an LA trip just to laugh at how badly they would make a stereotype of california. Japanese media doesnít generally do too well depicting foreigners...

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

I loved the bit where Ryuji thinks LA is the capital of the United States and must be somewhere in the center of the country because, well, that's where capital cities go right?

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



Sydin posted:

I loved the bit where Ryuji thinks LA is the capital of the United States and must be somewhere in the center of the country because, well, that's where capital cities go right?

I wonder if that's what the original joke was in japanese because yeah that one was pretty funny

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

Something I only learned today: there are vending machines on the platforms in Mementos that you can break for SP items.

arisu
Apr 11, 2003


ApplesandOranges posted:

Something I only learned today: there are vending machines on the platforms in Mementos that you can break for SP items.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

The amount of SP items they drop is also tied to the multiplier for items you've set with Jose. So if you find one (they are kinda rare) you can potentially break it for a stack of 10 SP items all at once.

A talking coyote
Jan 13, 2020


Theyíre also mega rare or my luck is just complete rear end, cause I only saw 1 in two playthroughs.

Aesculus
Mar 22, 2013



One thing I think is severely missed about the Royal final palace is that if you pick "steal the heart of the one I love" for the psych test, the shadow will say straight up that happiness gained by depriving others of their own is actually unhappiness. I still think Maruki's ending is legitimately the "good" one, even if it's not the "true" one, and that he's not trying to force his new utopia on everyone against their will (why would he give Joker so much time to come to his own decision and allow the phantom thieves to oppose him?), he legitimately does just want human suffering to end.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



Aesculus posted:

One thing I think is severely missed about the Royal final palace is that if you pick "steal the heart of the one I love" for the psych test, the shadow will say straight up that happiness gained by depriving others of their own is actually unhappiness. I still think Maruki's ending is legitimately the "good" one, even if it's not the "true" one, and that he's not trying to force his new utopia on everyone against their will (why would he give Joker so much time to come to his own decision and allow the phantom thieves to oppose him?), he legitimately does just want human suffering to end.

We've kind of discussed this recently but Joker's really the only one he gives the option to, because for other people, he does what is functionally exactly that by forcing people to give up on their dreams because their dreams are too difficult to achieve and it'd be easier to just make them okay with giving up than to actually see it through. To be critical of "stealing hearts" is really contradictory because that's exactly what he's doing, especially when he has a brainwashing room for anyone whose happiness is not the correct kind of happiness

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Pillbug

He's a hypocrite though. He doesn't force his utopia on the thieves and Joker in particular because he respects them for helping him come to his conclusion and genuinely wants them, of all people, to accept his worldview and validate him. We see in the very same psychiatric exam area that if you espouse worldviews that are different to Maruki's, he "treats" you by strapping a brainwashing device to you until you agree with him. Also while he doesn't want to force his utopia on Joker, if you fail to meet the deadline he will drop Joker into a never ending coma so he can't interfere with the new world.

He's done it in the past too, when he used his power on Rumi to make her forget the incident that traumatized her, but also Maruki. He claims to you over and over that she's happier and so he's fine with it, and in doing so dismisses out of hand the possibility that she ever could have recovered and shared a life with the man she loved, which maybe she ultimately would have been happier with. It's even hinted he might be wrong about his decision to cut himself out of her life since, in their brief post-actualization dialogue, she takes an interest in him and says she wants to spend more time with him before he bolts. There are a lot of context clues that Maruki's world - while it may result in no conflict - does not mean everybody would be happy. Or at least, not without a lot of people being brainwashed into accepting his reality to the point they aren't even really themselves any longer.

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Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

Aesculus posted:

One thing I think is severely missed about the Royal final palace is that if you pick "steal the heart of the one I love" for the psych test, the shadow will say straight up that happiness gained by depriving others of their own is actually unhappiness. I still think Maruki's ending is legitimately the "good" one, even if it's not the "true" one, and that he's not trying to force his new utopia on everyone against their will (why would he give Joker so much time to come to his own decision and allow the phantom thieves to oppose him?), he legitimately does just want human suffering to end.

There are many ways I think you are wrong. At the very start it is extremely hypocritical for Maruki to call that evil considering that is what everything he has done/is doing is based on. So in other words it is okay for him to do it but if others try it then they are evil. Then there is the case of the homeless man. In the entire month or so when Maruki has the ability to bring back the dead the most he can be bothered to do is make it so that the guy is content with his current lot in life, aka living on the streets. Then there is the whole thing with Kasumi and Sumire. When he takes all that power he could have brought Kasumi back like he did Wakaba or even president Okumura but he had already had the mindset that everything he has done was right so instead of taking the chance to fix up a flawed solution he just leaves it as it is. Also that act of mercy in trying to convince Joker is non existent. He tried to jam it in on everyone as soon as he could and the moment when people pushed back he was waiting to get enough power to properly force it on the protagonist.

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