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If markui hadn’t used his power in the most idiotic way in the beginning I’d have sympathized with him more. In no reality is it ok to think you are a different person. That is mental illness and an extreme sickness good job “helping” her. If he had shown that he could really help people who needed it like a sick people with cancer or poor people that would have been interesting. I’d have been willing to fight against the team for that goal. Just granting wishes and fake happiness to people is reckless and he needed to be put down.
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Jul 2, 2020 05:05
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You also never run into the scenario where two people might have ideal realities that conflict with each other. Say Ann wants to have Shiho come back to school, but Shiho might want to travel the world or something. Then Maruki has to play 'whose dream do I modify so that everyone is happy'.
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Jul 2, 2020 05:12
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The interesting thing about Maruki is that he himself acknowledges that it is better for an individual's own growth and mental state to overcome their hardships via therapy and time, but because he himself cannot get over his own past failures, he projects this onto others in his life via his persona ability. He actualizes Rumi into forgetting her trauma and Sumire into being Kasumi without even trying traditional therapy or thinking they could still recover and live happy lives as they are now. If somebody shows even a modicum of difficulty in overcoming their trauma he just defaults to "oh it's too painful for them" and erases it forever, even if that means they lose things precious to them in the process like Rumi lost her memories of Maruki. His whole method is him projecting his own inability to face trauma onto the general populace.
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Jul 2, 2020 05:34
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When your new god is re-enacting scenes from Bruce Almighty you got a problem
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Jul 2, 2020 06:04
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Man, that Haru/Makoto tag team attack is the best one yet. I'm actually sad they don't have a wrestling costume, even as dlc.Lord_Magmar posted:Personally the wrestling tag-team is my second favourite, my favourite is much later and is mandatory to see at least once. Oh ho? Looking forward to it then. Arbite fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 06:11
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The tag team attacks are all pretty wonderful, shame there are only 2 each for the most part, I’d have been interested in Ryuji and Morgana doing one for example. Could go with them getting into a fight and turning on the shadow for interrupting, a big ball of violence rolling over the enemy. Personally the wrestling tag-team is my second favourite, my favourite is much later and is mandatory to see at least once.
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Jul 2, 2020 06:20
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I like Fist of the Phantom Star quite a bit but I don’t get whatever the joke is with the soda at the end
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Jul 2, 2020 06:54
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:When your new god is re-enacting scenes from Bruce Almighty you got a problem Which was the whole point of Maruki. For all his power, he’s no god. He’s just a man unable to deal with his own trauma and quite literally projecting that onto the world at large. The whole final boss proves that he’s trying to bury his own misery in his delusion of being a benevolent god the same way he’s enforcing a false happiness on everyone else. Sockser posted:I like Fist of the Phantom Star quite a bit but I don’t get whatever the joke is with the soda at the end Ryuji offers Makoto a soda and she, being the health stickler she is, crushes the deeply unhealthy drink in the most intimidating way possible. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 08:57
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ApplesandOranges posted:You also never run into the scenario where two people might have ideal realities that conflict with each other. Say Ann wants to have Shiho come back to school, but Shiho might want to travel the world or something. Then Maruki has to play 'whose dream do I modify so that everyone is happy'. There are a couple though. One of the NPC plot-lines in Akihabara was about a girl acting as a hired girlfriend and in turn hired a boyfriend herself and how it all went down badly; and in Maruki's dreamworld (IIRC) her personality got rewritten to match the hired girlfriend facade. Or the train guard that wished that his senior wouldn't have been promoted and continued working with him forever. There are a bunch of stuff like that lying about that shows how Maruki rewrites people where NPC's personality does a 180 degrees turn to make other people happy.
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Jul 2, 2020 11:17
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Sockser posted:I like Fist of the Phantom Star quite a bit but I don’t get whatever the joke is with the soda at the end Do you know how much grip strength it takes to crush an unopened can of soda?
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Jul 2, 2020 12:06
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Lord_Magmar posted:The tag team attacks are all pretty wonderful, shame there are only 2 each for the most part, I’d have been interested in Ryuji and Morgana doing one for example. Could go with them getting into a fight and turning on the shadow for interrupting, a big ball of violence rolling over the enemy. Honestly I'm disappointed there isn't one of Joker with each member.
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Jul 2, 2020 12:53
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One thing I wanted and didn't get from the new semester was an option to have Joker throw down with Maruki right away for an early ending, with just Akechi and maybe Yoshizawa. 
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Jul 3, 2020 05:28
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Joker never gets his final billiards showdown with Akechi (using his left hand). 
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Jul 3, 2020 05:40
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And Tyler Too! posted:Joker never gets his final billiards showdown with Akechi (using his left hand). Their rivalry isn't finished yet indeed. Dawgstar posted:Honestly I'm disappointed there isn't one of Joker with each member. Yeah, although the two he gets them with do work well on a story level. My actual issue there is they don't have one with eachother to round out the set. Could easily call it "Benevolent Beauty and the Baleful Beast" or some such nonsense. Theme it around them having similar themes of pretending to be someone else and being liberated from this by Joker's friendship/rivalry/love. So they'd start by playing the Detective Prince and Kasumi, and end as the Black Mask and Sumire. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 05:43
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Sydin posted:He's done it in the past too, when he used his power on Rumi to make her forget the incident that traumatized her, but also Maruki. He claims to you over and over that she's happier and so he's fine with it, and in doing so dismisses out of hand the possibility that she ever could have recovered and shared a life with the man she loved, which maybe she ultimately would have been happier with. It's even hinted he might be wrong about his decision to cut himself out of her life since, in their brief post-actualization dialogue, she takes an interest in him and says she wants to spend more time with him before he bolts. There are a lot of context clues that Maruki's world - while it may result in no conflict - does not mean everybody would be happy. Or at least, not without a lot of people being brainwashed into accepting his reality to the point they aren't even really themselves any longer. I was under the impression that he sort of "mistakenly" used the power on Rumi. He didn't know he had the power yet and sort of inadvertently made it happen. I think everything follows from that - he realizes what he did, sees that she seems much happier (basically he sees her go from catatonic to "normal"), and then decides to go all-in on things because he wants to convince himself that his own sacrifice was worth it (because otherwise he'll have made his fiance forget him for nothing). SITB posted:
Yeah, I distinctly remember one where a woman is like "suddenly my husband agreed to all this stuff I wanted, but it's weirding me out because it's like he's a difference person."
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Jul 3, 2020 06:43
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Ytlaya posted:I was under the impression that he sort of "mistakenly" used the power on Rumi. I dunno, immediately after the flashback where you see that happen he says that it'd be really cool if exactly that happened, and then seemed pretty happy when it did. Even if it was theoretically an accident, it was exactly how he felt the situation would best be solved
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Jul 3, 2020 09:54
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:When your new god is re-enacting scenes from Bruce Almighty you got a problem Better than creating a hell on earth where the rich and powerful trample over the weak and not only the weak accept it but desire it.
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Jul 3, 2020 18:30
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Gamestop the other night had a first 1000 orders only deal on P5R Steelbook + Fox funkopop for only 35 bucks. Impulsively did it and somehow managed to actually be in that first 1000. I bought it against my better judgement since I really don't like the base game, but I figured 3 years to cool down and an updated version is enough time to try again. So good luck to me, maybe I'll still hate it but I'm such a sucker for social links and grinding Personas and fusing.
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Jul 3, 2020 20:36
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gyrobot posted:Better than creating a hell on earth where the rich and powerful trample over the weak and not only the weak accept it but desire it. I mean he tries to brainwash the homeless into being okay with being homeless so that seems pretty bad too!
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Jul 4, 2020 03:40
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Ah, I see that after beating Adachi and the uh... giant eyeball death star thing the game just jumps you ahead to 12/23. Considering I slammed that out as early as possible I presumably just missed a shitload of confidant time. Oh well, something to remember for NG+ I guess...
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Jul 4, 2020 05:17
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I mean he tries to brainwash the homeless into being okay with being homeless so that seems pretty bad too! Is it Kiritani, or one of the artists Madarame discarded
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Jul 4, 2020 05:35
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Maruki is very obviously distorted, hence the existence of a palace where his distorted desires are made manifest. What makes it interesting is that his distortions are the result of him being so selfless and emotionally driven that his attempt to do good isn't well thought out, for the reasons that have already been pointed out in this thread. The root of his distortion, namely his overwhelming sadness at how much suffering there is in the world, is what causes him to take the scorched earth approach that he does without adequately thinking it through. And I do think that most of the problems with his actions are that very scorched earth approach. I think that most people could get behind the idea of targeted cognitive rewrite in extreme cases, like treatment resistant depression or PTSD, but his problem is that he is convinced by his distortions that the world is filled with nothing but suffering that must be relieved at any cost. Fundamentally, the point of every palace including Maruki's is less that desires are wrong, and more that any desire becomes a problem when it becomes so dominant that it warps someone's cognition, and selfless desires that are distorted are capable of causing just as much potential harm as selfish desires that are distorted. That being said, I think that intent matters, and I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that Maruki is a villain on that basis.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:44
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Sydin posted:Ah, I see that after beating Adachi and the uh... giant eyeball death star thing the game just jumps you ahead to 12/23. Considering I slammed that out as early as possible I presumably just missed a shitload of confidant time. Yeah P4 is pretty bad about that. Luckily they fixed that for P5, but in P4 you still have to deal with everyone freaking out while you're mentally going 'well if I save the world now I won't get to nookie with that giant forehead girl from drama, so hush'.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:44
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It's amusing how party members in P4 remind you about exploring the TV world. They just call you and say "hey maybe we should go to the TV world" and hang up before you can say anything in response.RazzleDazzleHour posted:I dunno, immediately after the flashback where you see that happen he says that it'd be really cool if exactly that happened, and then seemed pretty happy when it did. Even if it was theoretically an accident, it was exactly how he felt the situation would best be solved He thought it would be good if it happened (understandably, given the state she was in), but I don't think he knew he could do it. And he saw an immediate drastic improvement after doing so (and also, due it to being the first time he used the power, probably had no idea if he could change her back), so he likely decided that it was for the best. And after having made such a sacrifice he would have an incentive to just go all-in in order to convince himself that losing his fiance was "worth it." I think this event with Rumi is the real driver of his mindset, rather than some "desire to end all suffering" that he developed. Absent the Rumi situation, I don't think Maruki would have done this. It's why the final area of his Palace is full of giant Rumis.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:50
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I mean, his treasure was the newspaper clipping which led to Rumi being in the hospital, so yeah.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:00
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Rumi was absolutely the trigger for Maruki’s mindset to twist his desire to help others into “remove all suffering at any cost”. His selflessness and personal sorrow combined to produce the extreme messiah complex we saw in-game. If not for that, he probably could have used his awakened power in a much more targeted manner and basically become the greatest therapist to ever live. Unfortunately, much like Futaba and several Mementos targets, his issues consumed him to the point that he just couldn’t stop his self-destructive behavior on his own. For a being who is essentially a god, that is far too dangerous to be allowed to continue. Nobody aside from Akechi begrudges Maruki for his actions and they even thank him for doing so much for them. He still had to be stopped before the point where Maruki gained too much power to ever be opposed and mankind would be dominated by an distorted god for eternity.
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Jul 4, 2020 12:14
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Also, finished Persona 5 Royal today. Idle thoughts: I really like all the new QoL additions, obviously. Baton Passing being a base skill, the general adjustment of the difficulty curve (I do think Kamoshida ended up too easy, but I actually kinda liked the difficulty of the Okumura fight). The Jazz Club has some obvious abuse options but it also meant that Ryuji/Ann/Makoto aren't far and away the strongest options endgame unless you really go all in on them, which you won't be doing on a fresh run, and it also helps patch up the 'weaker' party members if you want to. Haru still suffers both from 'oh, she barely exists in the plot after her spotlight dungeon' and 'eh, I never really need to put her in the party', though. Also, Take Over is a great song. At first not having Last Surprise all the time was a bit sad, but the new song is a pretty good bopper. Sumire and Maruki are pretty horned in, with the obvious big jarring part being the Culture Festival, but honestly they're alright as big 'hey, hey, these guys are important to unlock content' signs. The changes to the Akechi confidant are nice, they help humanize him a bit while not making him completely 'oh woe is me' redeemable. As for the actual third semester stuff, I do like it overall, and Maruki is one of the better/more complex villains they've done in a while. The timing of it definitely feels a bit jarring since Sae barely plays a part in it and then you finish it and go back to her suddenly being forefront at Joker's release and with the Valentine/White Day's events again. I still don't understand a few of the plot beats, like how Maruki made Mementos appear again and how a Persona user can have a Palace, but eh. Also, the third-tier Personas are great. My favourites were Diego, Ella and Lucy, and Celestine also grew on me after a while. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 12:55
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ApplesandOranges posted:I still don't understand a few of the plot beats, like how Maruki made Mementos appear again and how a Persona user can have a Palace, but eh. To be fair Futaba was also a persona user with a palace, albeit fairly briefly. As for Mementos I'm not sure, I think it's implied that it never left and Maruki just swooped in to become it's new core as soon as you dealt with Yaldy, but why then did the big dramatic Morgana goodbye from still exist where he vanishes because Mementos is vanashing? It's kind of a plothole yeah.
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Jul 4, 2020 19:55
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ApplesandOranges posted:I still don't understand a few of the plot beats, like how Maruki made Mementos appear again and how a Persona user can have a Palace, but eh. Of course it isn't directly explained, but I always read it as because Maruki's palace was created before he fully awoke to Azatoth, it doesn't break the rule. Like how Futaba's palace still existed after she awoke, only to disappear once she left after having fixed her own cognition. As for Mementos, it never full disappeared. Maruki awoke to Azatoth the same day Yaldy was defeated and was able to take the throne before it vanished. Besides that, it is strongly hinted throughout the Persona games that the various metarealities (Tatarus, the TV World, Mementos, etc.) never fully disappear since they're all connected to the collective human unconscious. They just lose their ability to affect the real world for a while until humanity's various distortions remanifest.
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Jul 4, 2020 20:02
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https://twitter.com/WTK/status/1279558126312787974 $300 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otBAk8GeSC8
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Jul 5, 2020 01:25
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That costs 300 dollars more than it is worth.
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Jul 5, 2020 01:38
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It's Aniplex so that price was a given but still gently caress Aniplex.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:05
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Dehry posted:https://twitter.com/WTK/status/1279558126312787974 I didn’t think there was a dub. Not that it somehow makes paying 300 for a lousy anime more enticing.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:05
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Dub is a new development. I’m stoked to hear Xander Mobus say complete sentences; he’s stated multiple times that almost all of his lines were grunts, vocalizations, etc.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:41
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ApplesandOranges posted:Haru still suffers both from 'oh, she barely exists in the plot after her spotlight dungeon' and 'eh, I never really need to put her in the party', though. Haru became a permanent fixture in my party because even if an enemy had no weaknesses I can abuse Psy Technicals. The game is lousy with debuff items like Forget Vials and such.
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Jul 5, 2020 08:08
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Geostomp posted:I didn’t think there was a dub. Not that it somehow makes paying 300 for a lousy anime more enticing. It'll stream on Funimation eventually, I'm sure. Maybe Netflix. I don't even see P4's funny bits compilation videos for it so I can safely wait.
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Jul 5, 2020 13:57
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Hey thread. I just finished playing the original P5 and really enjoyed it! Part of me wants to immediately get Royal, but I want to be patient and reasonable and wait for price to decrease a bit. Is the $60 worth it?
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Jul 5, 2020 21:33
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P5 Animated is dogshit and you should not watch it, sorry.  Like the P4 animation is fun because they they actually give Yu a definitive off-the-wall personality and it leans into the cheesy, over the top bits from the game. P5 is just a low budget, rote retelling of the events of P5 with no garnish and Joker while now having dialogue is still completely flat.
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Jul 5, 2020 21:40
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P4A's Yu was fun but I'm not sure if they should repeat that and make the respective protagonists the goofiest version of themselves in every anime adaptation. Dunno how else you'd make Ren more interesting though.
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Jul 5, 2020 21:45
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Also, the P5A fight choreography and general animation are dogshit which is doubly sad because Ishihama has done some legitimately great stuff but phoned it the gently caress in on this show. For example, it would've been better if they had just used the all-out attack animations from the game rather than whatever the gently caress it is they drew for the anime. It's that bad.
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Jul 5, 2020 21:56
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