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Parallelwoody
Apr 9, 2008



Don't need to be friends with headless nobles.

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Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

The new Dev Diary adding the sandbox mode in is like sweet manna. No more chasing down dumb lords all over.

And their new battle terrain system looks cool too, if they can pull it off.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Glass of Milk posted:

The new Dev Diary adding the sandbox mode in is like sweet manna. No more chasing down dumb lords all over.

I am a busy player, but I always have time to talk about the blessed battle of Pendraic

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




I take it you can't turn permadeath off mid-game? I was really dumb to 'try it out', I can't imagine using this without savescumming, would make it basically impossible to build up a companion.

downout
Jul 6, 2009



The noble relationship system is unforgiving for executions. But I've had good luck defeating all the opponents I can find and releasing members twice to get to ~+16. Then fighting them and capturing them to lock up in my castles until the end of the war. Which they seem to want to end pretty quickly once ~30 vassal squads get taken off the map. Fighting them doesn't cost any relationship, only taking their castles I think, and that's minimal.

In my current playthrough, I've convinced probably 10 clans to join our kingdom. Without that, there is just no way to keep up on the map because there won't be enough clans to defend it.

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009


I've seen screen shots of people painting the map but I'm not sure how. I still can't figure out how the relationship / kingdom management system works, even when I've cheesed smiting to the point money doesn't matter

downout
Jul 6, 2009



terrorist ambulance posted:

I've seen screen shots of people painting the map but I'm not sure how. I still can't figure out how the relationship / kingdom management system works, even when I've cheesed smiting to the point money doesn't matter

Charm, bs money, and relationship. Tier 4 clans with no fiefs and ~20 relationship usually cost me about 200k to turn. If they have a fief, then it jumps to like 600k or more. This is playing as a vassal, not trying to make my own kingdom.

I'm not even sure how to do it solo, because the other kingdoms attack too much.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






downout posted:

Charm, bs money, and relationship. Tier 4 clans with no fiefs and ~20 relationship usually cost me about 200k to turn. If they have a fief, then it jumps to like 600k or more. This is playing as a vassal, not trying to make my own kingdom.

I'm not even sure how to do it solo, because the other kingdoms attack too much.

I think the pro move is to run around as a vassal for another kingdom for a while and just become really popular with everyone both in your kingdom and the other ones, then mass recruit as soon as you break away.

If you get the relationship really high (something like 50 I think) then a clan will join for free. I think if the clan head has personality traits that clash with their rulers' they may also join for free; I once got a Battannian lord to join the western empire for free and in the dialog he said it was because Caladog was cruel and dishonorable

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

This is why we have orders, general.

terrorist ambulance posted:

I've seen screen shots of people painting the map but I'm not sure how. I still can't figure out how the relationship / kingdom management system works, even when I've cheesed smiting to the point money doesn't matter

The speedrun of bannerlord involves getting to the trait where you can buy fiefs with cash and just buying the whole map.

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016


Panzeh posted:

The speedrun of bannerlord involves getting to the trait where you can buy fiefs with cash and just buying the whole map.

"Yes, son, I sold our ancestral homelands. But now we can afford to buy three javelins!"

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


I'm guessing weapons and armour are absurdly expensive so that players can't immediately jump to the best stuff after one trade run, and instead have to progress through mediocre gear

Maybe this loop could be replaced: maybe equipment breaks down through use, so the player would have to balance splashing out on the best gear vs the chance that it gets damaged in battle and they can't afford to repair it

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore

Is there a way to stop Jatu et all from transferring troops to a visited settlement and then recruiting crap to replace them?

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




The AI refuses to use good troops out of principle, you can have your companion create a new party consisting entirely out of max-tier units, and if you check 5 minutes later their party will be 90% peasants, looters, and recruits.

I'm not complaining too much since most of the time it works out in favor of the player

Panzeh posted:

The speedrun of bannerlord involves getting to the trait where you can buy fiefs with cash and just buying the whole map.

Which trait is this? I need to start investing in Charm

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

correct politics haver
...weed...



Parallelwoody posted:

Don't need to be friends with headless nobles.

firing up the SDK to make the Permanent Revolution mod

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

This is why we have orders, general.

Phlegmish posted:

The AI refuses to use good troops out of principle, you can have your companion create a new party consisting entirely out of max-tier units, and if you check 5 minutes later their party will be 90% peasants, looters, and recruits.

I'm not complaining too much since most of the time it works out in favor of the player

Because the AI recruits in the same way that you do, it has to start with mostly peasants and is happy to recruit prisoners, but it doesn't focus on fighting looter parties when it has a bunch of recruits, so they just slam recruits into each other and end up never really levelling up a lot of people the way a player can.

It's weird how a lot of the problems in this game mostly have to do with AI lords having to play by the same rules as the player. I kinda feel like castles should have some kind of recruiting function to help deal with that. I also feel like mercenaries could stand to be better troops and more available.

Phlegmish posted:

Which trait is this? I need to start investing in Charm

It's in the trade skill. It used to be trade 225 but they bumped it to trade 300. Trade's actually one of the harder skills to grind up as you can't really grind it quickly through doing anything incidentally.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Feb 21, 2021

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






The "Party AI Overhaul and Commands" mod lets you tell your clan parties to not leave troops in non-clan settlements. This claims to be an update to the mod for the latest patch (I haven't tried it myself): https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2703

Panzeh posted:

Because the AI recruits in the same way that you do, it has to start with mostly peasants and is happy to recruit prisoners, but it doesn't focus on fighting looter parties when it has a bunch of recruits, so they just slam recruits into each other and end up never really levelling up a lot of people the way a player can.

It's weird how a lot of the problems in this game mostly have to do with AI lords having to play by the same rules as the player. I kinda feel like castles should have some kind of recruiting function to help deal with that. I also feel like mercenaries could stand to be better troops and more available.


Someone said that the AI parties don't have to supply horses to upgrade cavalry troops, which of course disproportionately helps the already overpowered khuzaits

The militia kind of serve as auto-recruiters at towns and castles

Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Feb 21, 2021

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




Panzeh posted:

Because the AI recruits in the same way that you do, it has to start with mostly peasants and is happy to recruit prisoners, but it doesn't focus on fighting looter parties when it has a bunch of recruits, so they just slam recruits into each other and end up never really levelling up a lot of people the way a player can.

It's weird how a lot of the problems in this game mostly have to do with AI lords having to play by the same rules as the player. I kinda feel like castles should have some kind of recruiting function to help deal with that. I also feel like mercenaries could stand to be better troops and more available.

It wouldn't be a huge problem if not for the fact that it leads to such stupid army compositions for most AI lords. Not having any cavalry or archers to speak of means their ball of tier 1/2 infantry is going to be nearly useless regardless of size, even if they have shields.

Anyway, I take it there is no way to improve your relations with the people in your own clan? Yes, it's for roleplay reasons, I'm a huge big softie. It's dumb that some enemy character that I've beaten ten times in a row is over the moon to see me, while my own wife is completely indifferent to my existence.

downout
Jul 6, 2009



Phlegmish posted:

It wouldn't be a huge problem if not for the fact that it leads to such stupid army compositions for most AI lords. Not having any cavalry or archers to speak of means their ball of tier 1/2 infantry is going to be nearly useless regardless of size, even if they have shields.

Anyway, I take it there is no way to improve your relations with the people in your own clan? Yes, it's for roleplay reasons, I'm a huge big softie. It's dumb that some enemy character that I've beaten ten times in a row is over the moon to see me, while my own wife is completely indifferent to my existence.

You can give them an army then join them in a fight and help them win.

LLCoolJD
Dec 8, 2007

You stand to win everything. Call it.

I read an article saying that world map terrain will be used to generate combat maps. How can they do such a thing without my sneaky hill archers obliterating the AI?

Article:
https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/mount-and-blade-2-announces-stunning-update-to-how-battle-terrain-is-picked/

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

awoo



I don't think the maps will be randomly generated like in Warband, it sounds like there will just be a whole lot more region-specific maps

"With the new system the world map has been divided into regions, with each region being connected to its own specific scene"

Babe Magnet
Jun 1, 2008


that's a dope system but I think I'll miss the random/semi-random maps honestly. having "landmark" locations on faction borders that you fight in over and over again is going to be cool as hell though.

come 2 the Jalmarys parking lot in the next 10 min if u want an rear end kicking

Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Feb 22, 2021

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


But where will we have our musket battles on nightmare moonscapes or MEGA ALPS?

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit



Grimey Drawer

SeanBeansShako posted:

But where will we have our musket battles on nightmare moonscapes or MEGA ALPS?

I basically never ever fought on mountains on warband because fighting on them gave a huge chance of fights on vertical cliff faces. Like yes, this is where I choose to fight, impossible spike mountains with vertical cliffs everywhere.

I hope these new maps a region specific enough that like choosing to fight in open field, hills, a mountain, etc is actually a thing. It doesn't feel like where you meet on the map right now has any impact on map selection other than like desert, snow, or temperate maps.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Chances are they'd make like a grid of the map, then make a sort of stock series of templates on certain sectors. It might not be too accurate but generic enough so if you pick a battle near the edge of a river you'd get one with either a river bisecting or just at the edge.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






SeanBeansShako posted:

Chances are they'd make like a grid of the map, then make a sort of stock series of templates on certain sectors. It might not be too accurate but generic enough so if you pick a battle near the edge of a river you'd get one with either a river bisecting or just at the edge.

that's basically how it works now

the video has a little clip where they show it off and they say the maps will be based on the world map terrain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQse5KhT1Ng

at 1:28

e: while the voiceover says that it will take into account the position of the armies on the world map when placing them on the battle map the footage shows two armies on the same side of a bridge then the battle map has them on opposite sides of the bridge lol

Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Feb 22, 2021

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




downout posted:

You can give them an army then join them in a fight and help them win.

Yeah, looks like that's the only possibility.

They need to throw a bone to the Crusader Kings crowd here, I want to accomplish what is impossible in real life, getting my relatives and companions to like me

bltzn
Oct 26, 2020


Genghis Cohen posted:

This has been good enough for videogames for my entire life, why change it?

Because good enough is not a reason to not try new things? "if it isn't broken dont fix it" is a really really dumb argument.

Anyways trade has always been a way to make money in Mount & Blade. Also economic war would be an interesting option to take down enemy kingdoms.

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013


bltzn posted:

Because good enough is not a reason to not try new things? "if it isn't broken dont fix it" is a really really dumb argument.

Anyways trade has always been a way to make money in Mount & Blade. Also economic war would be an interesting option to take down enemy kingdoms.

When talking about larger or more serious things, you are quite right that we should never blindly accept the status quo. But do you really prefer Bannerlord's supply and demand system to an arbitrary-price, merchants-have-infinite-money common in most adventure games, rpgs etc? I can't seriously think that many fixed price internal economies in games have been worse than swords more expensive than whole towns.

A game about economic warfare might be interesting, but does it fit well into 3rd person action with some rpg and rts elements? The point of economics in the game is to enable the player to equip themselves, maintain their troops and build up fiefs. All those things could be done by setting a selling price on plunder, a buying price on equipment and costs on wages, equipment and fief upgrades. If people enjoy a commerce element, supply & demand could be limited to specifically trade goods, or the profits of workshops/caravans. There is no good reason for it to link to all the other aspects like the availability of gear.

I get people like simulationist content for its own sake, but it's not even a good simulation. You can be a successful, battle-winning warlord and still can't afford the armour your troops are wearing. You recruited those troops, fed and paid them and they magically received their own gear (bar the horse) for less than the cost of a good suit of armour.

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




Can you see how long it will take for a tribute treaty to expire? They do expire on their own, right?

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009






Soiled Meat

I like the new permadeth mechanic, lotta dumb no-name lords getting killed in random battles makes wars feel more impactful (and helps with snowballs I guess)

However it seems to disproportionately target minor characters and not big ones

Mesadoram
Nov 4, 2009

Serious Business


BULBASAUR posted:

I like the new permadeth mechanic, lotta dumb no-name lords getting killed in random battles makes wars feel more impactful (and helps with snowballs I guess)

However it seems to disproportionately target minor characters and not big ones

If they didn't want to die then they should have been more important.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






They probably have someone in their opaque and mysterious simulated battle solver where unique named characters are among the last to get killed/ wounded to try and prevent commanders from dying too much (iirc if the lord leading a party dies but the the party doesn't lose, then the party is just disbanded). so the nobles are only in danger of dying when their party gets wiped, which would in turn be more likely for low tier clans that can only field smaller armies

Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Feb 23, 2021

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




BULBASAUR posted:

I like the new permadeth mechanic, lotta dumb no-name lords getting killed in random battles makes wars feel more impactful (and helps with snowballs I guess)

However it seems to disproportionately target minor characters and not big ones

I don't mind lords dying, but I do not like looking at the results screen after a 20-minute battle and seeing that my companion with 260 in Scouting has died

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






Phlegmish posted:

I don't mind lords dying, but I do not like looking at the results screen after a 20-minute battle and seeing that my companion with 260 in Scouting has died

Do new hireable companions not spawn in the world when existing ones die?

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009






Soiled Meat

Phlegmish posted:

I don't mind lords dying, but I do not like looking at the results screen after a 20-minute battle and seeing that my companion with 260 in Scouting has died

it sucks, but I kinda dig it, since the AI plays by the same rules and it helps makes battles have more meaning

the mod that lets you promote your troops who have shown exceptional valor in combat helps with this a lot, you have a natural chain of command that... refreshes, as you take attrition

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG

BULBASAUR posted:

it sucks, but I kinda dig it, since the AI plays by the same rules and it helps makes battles have more meaning

the mod that lets you promote your troops who have shown exceptional valor in combat helps with this a lot, you have a natural chain of command that... refreshes, as you take attrition

What mod is that?

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009






Soiled Meat

So what's the pro way to make a kingdom these days?

EricBauman posted:

What mod is that?
https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/1101?tab=description
I like it a lot, pretty organic gameplay especially when you're a nobody starting out. You can tweak the rates if you find it to be too little or too much. Its also a good way to get some of the high tier gear and spread it throughout your party.

Works for me on 1.5.7 stable

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




Are there things that affect the amount of money you need to give someone to join your kingdom, like your relationship, Charm level, etc.? It kind of seems insanely high no matter what.

Shear Modulus posted:

Do new hireable companions not spawn in the world when existing ones die?

Yes, but they won't have 300 Scouting

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downout
Jul 6, 2009



Phlegmish posted:

Are there things that affect the amount of money you need to give someone to join your kingdom, like your relationship, Charm level, etc.? It kind of seems insanely high no matter what.


Yes, but they won't have 300 Scouting

Yes, anecdotally both charm and relationship seem to affect the amount of money. As well as their clan tier and number of owned castles and fiefs.

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