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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


This game looks like an amazing experience. I'm in.

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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


##action merk

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


##vote b-

No action spam, you clearly know you much.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Mr. Steak posted:

i for one am not gonna blindly use a day-action until i know more

##vote steak

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


So, serious post:


I think players withholding their action are actually more likely to be scummy, but not enough to pursue completely.

What I do think is worth pursuing is that I highly doubt any scum have used their action on a scum mate. So if someone could possibly collate who used an action on who I would live you. Otherwise I will do so later.


As for my scum reads, I'm gonna ##unvote

I will reread today to see what jumps out at me.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


merk posted:

Iím not using my action probably for the whole game. Iím here to win the old fashioned way.

Why play in this game then ><

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


spacing in vienna posted:

BTW I had a theory in Hidden Role Mafia 1 that scum was less likely than town to use the action on themselves, just in case it was a vig. I was wrong, in that at least one scum person did test their day action on themselves. (DB I think?)

Anyway. My student rescheduled so I am sitting here in TEACHER MODE for the next half-hour. So I made a spreadsheet.

Poster --> Used Action On, in chronological thread order:

Bifauxnen -> Solus
Amnistar -> Merk
Sandwolf -> Sandwolf
Dragonatrix -> b-minus1
Spacing in Vienna -> flerp
Your Personal Muse -> Sandwolf
b-minus1 -> Dragonatrix
Eat the Rich -> Mr. Steak
Anomalous Amalgam -> Bifauxnen
Toalpaz -> Your Personal Muse
Mr. Humalong -> Bifauxnen
Dancer -> b-minus1

That's twelve of seventeen. People who haven't used theirs yet, in alphabetical order:

flerp
Gamerofthegame
merk
Mr. Steak
SolusLunes

I was going to link to the actual posts of the actions being used buuuuut :effort:


Join the cool kids, shoot somebody. #peerpressure

Thanks for this! Doesn't mean much now, but I suspect after we find scum, this list of who targetted who day 1 will provide a lot of insight.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Okay, rereading the thread and I'm gonna ##vote YPM

Their posts are superficial and it's hard to parse what is actual content vs. what is a joke. To the point that they voted for steak (as a joke?) but then it's a real vote? And they voted for gamer because they were manufacturing content, but it was a joke? but maybe it wasn't?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Sorry was I being unclear?

I am not confused by what you are saying, I am pointing out that you are ping pinging between joking and not joking to avoid making actual firm stances you can be held accountable to in the future.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

What stances would you like me to clarify so that I may properly be held accountable?

You have now, since pressure has been applied, taken a firmer stance that is accountable, but that does not change the fact that you behaved the way you did.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

i think its bif dragon and amni namaste

##vote bif


This is designed to appear like real conflict between town. But it reads like light scum bussing to me. On day one this is a 'real' case on dragon but bif doesn't suggest to vote dragon, instead asking to vote hum first. If bif was town she would assume that dragon knew bif and hum's alignment and was just buddying up. Instead she's distancing herself while pushing another person.

Dragon isn't reacting emotionally, and is instead posting a lot in a discussion with no real fear of being lunched or case furthered by bif. This is scum banter prob.

And I'm on the list because...?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

its obvious

please spell it out for the class then. Saying "it's obvious" is a cop-out that leaves significant wiggle room in the future for defending your stance when I flip town.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

I think that it is also obvious that my main case is against bif and dragon. I don't think I need to explain myself further. I think it's weird how defensive you appear to be, also.

I mean, you haven't mentioned me once the entire game, and hten throw me in a list of scum, but now can't actually explain why you think I'm scum?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

##unvote I no longer think Steak is scum. I disagree with his analysis that scum wouldnít overreact to joke votes, since I think scum tend exaggerate the danger they are in, and I generally hate meta self defenses but I liked the cool down and the response was genuine.


What pressure? I promise you that I would have played the exact same way regardless, even without the one vote based on a flimsy case. The only reason Iím responding to the case is because I think itís fabricated, and Iím trying to figure out whether itís because you are town trying to generate content day 1 or scum looking for a place to park their vote.

I still donít know exactly what stances you thought I was trying to waffle on. I made the transition from joke to real vote very clear. So, what stances do you think I was

People talking about your posting is pressure. Pressure is not always votes.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

Talking is only pressure if there is real worry from the target, otherwise itís empty talk. There was literally zero threat from your case. Stop avoiding my question. You said I was slipping in and out of joke phase so that I could avoid scrutiny on my stances. What stances were those?

Amnistar posted:

Okay, rereading the thread and I'm gonna ##vote YPM

Their posts are superficial and it's hard to parse what is actual content vs. what is a joke. To the point that they voted for steak (as a joke?) but then it's a real vote? And they voted for gamer because they were manufacturing content, but it was a joke? but maybe it wasn't?

Being disengenious about what I am saying is a also scummy. I have already said what the things you were doing were, what stances you seemed to be joking and then not joking about.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

Ok but I didnít vote for Gamer with the manufactured content thing. Again, do you really believe that anyone would say that was a serious case? That I was seriously casing him for making a lunch pun?

I think you were 'joking' until such time as someone called you out on it, and then were going to stick with it, like you did with steak.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

To clarify, you said I didnít make a distinction between joke votes and serious votes and used my gamer vote and steak vote as examples. Letís ignore that I didnít actually vote gamer for what you said I voted for him for. When you made the case on me, I had explicitly said that my Steak vote was real due to his follow up, so Iím not sure who I could have theoretically wiggled out of that one. And I really donít see how I could have used the gamer case to my advantage.

Can someone else comment on Aminís case?

I was looking at the "We got him, he's scum" and "How do I vote for 2 people" comments as posts that can be jokes, or not, based on what people respond to them.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

I assume we got him, heís scum, is referring to when I listed the scum team, because otherwise I donít know what you are talking about unless I missed a post. Those two posts are not what you mentioned in your initial case. Instead, you mentioned only my Steak and Gamer votes (of which one wasnít actually a vote). In addition, my first serious post, which was clearly delineated, was AFTER those two posts so I you canít say I was drifting in and out of joke phase for those two posts.

Plus, you could say that about literally any post in joke phase

##vote Amni your case is fabricated and you are digging in a way that isnít town trying to generate content.

I donít like the Solus lunch and that ETR post was awful

Your Personal Muse posted:

I think Gamer is ~~manufacturing content~~ and doesnít believe this case smh bag him and tag him



I called this out initially and you even responded that you didn't vote for Gamer with the post...so like...I'm confused why you're pulling a gotcha here.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

How are words alone pressure when there is zero threat behind those words? It annoys me that Amni is pretending like I couldnít possibly just go after Steak because I thought something was there, no, it has to be because of the immense ~~pressure~~ I felt from his case which boils down to making some jokes

Because it's calling attention to activity.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

I guess in my mind, there has to be some effect on the recipient for it to be pressure. If I had announced at the beginning of day 0 that I was a n0 cop and I had a scum result on Amni, thereís no pressure even though I said words that could conceivably result in Amniís lunch. The game literally doesnít allow for that claim, everyone knows itís false. Thereís no pressure

But that has nothing to do with actual scum hunting. What do you think about Amniís case on me, semantics aside? I think Amni fabricated the case. Compared to Sandwolfís suspicion of me, which I believe for now, I just donít see how someone could look at the posts in context and think that I was setting up outs for myself.

Aside from the fact that uou literally did use it as an out right when I was posting the case "Oh yeah, no it *was* a joke vote but it's totally a real vote now!"

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


spacing in vienna posted:

Wait are you talking about when ypm said that about steak? The "ok I was just joking before but now that he's said X, I'm actually thinking it's true"?

Your Personal Muse posted:

The initial vote was a joke, current vote is real


This was written when I was writting my initial case post.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


spacing in vienna posted:

Amni, did you miss this? Because this is pretty clearly ypm going "... Hang on, I was joke voting steak, but now I want that to be a real vote, because I think that's a scum post from him."

I don't know that I buy that you were confused about this.

That post was the same, to me, as the post about Gamer earlier.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Sandwolf posted:

I could see it was town just latching onto whatever D1, thatís how I see it now, but the more weight he tries to put behind it the worse I feel about it.

Honestly, The initial case is weak, but YPM's responses have me happier about things.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Mostly the "Poke at the weak case until I make amni look bad, but ignore sandwolf's case becaue I can't make them look bad."

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


spacing in vienna posted:

Okay, now I'm confused. Which post about gamer? I remember ypm full on joke calling gamer scum, but not ever backing that up into "wait no I actually meant it."

I don't see where the confusion is. My entire initial case is that the post about steak and gamer both have just enough of a joke vibe to them that they can be excused and discarded or referenced as an actual case.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Sandwolf posted:

Can you tell me why?

It's the way that they just poked and poked until the felt they could justify a vote, but when another person also expressed an opinion of them as scum, they shrug it off and say "Yea sure".

It's a weak D1 case, that they've just poked at until it beacame "a thing"

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


spacing in vienna posted:

... But ypm didn't pretend his joke vote on steak was real; he threw down a joke vote and then explicitly changed it into a real one later, after steak did something he saw as scummy.

I don't think that I believe that you think is, as opposed to trying to find something that sounds logical.

##vote Amni

Disagree there. When I read that post, there was no "This is a real vote" post and I could not tell if it was a real swap to a serious vote or more joking around. The fact that right as I was posting my case YPM made the post about it being a serious vote does not invalidate my point.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Sandwolf posted:

Couldnít this be explained by your argument about what constitutes pressure though? Like just digging in and arguing your brains out and then when the dust settles youíve been arguing about the connotative definition of a word

I'm not sure where the narrative that we were arguing about pressure comes from. I made, I think, 2 posts, about it? One to say that votes aren't needed for pressure and another to say people started talking about it.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

Amnistar is still being very defensive and reading like 'anyone but me'. Merk is lurking.

Amni: Doubles down on a specific case, keeps pointing out what the point of the case was and how YPM is scum.

Toal: Man, amni sure wants anyone but him cuddled!

o.O

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Would absolutely vote Taolp if there was any kind of movement for that comment alone.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


##vote Taolpaz

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

look at all of these people who are going to give no info when I flip town

LOL You're not even reading the context behind my vote. Way to be scum yet again!

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

the context is that you spent 2 days trying to make a real case and then gave up and voted me because it was easy?

Oh no, I'd love to get YPM cuddled, but there is more than one scum, and your return to the thread makes it clear you don't know what was going on and just threw shade at the current target of the town's attention.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Toalpaz posted:

I dunno, I think that my point was pretty good. what's bad about it?

The idea of me being "anyone but me" when I'm digging my heels in on a single case.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Bifauxnen posted:

Toal you were such a kind and peaceful soul when we first met, what has made you so bitter

3 games in a row as scum is my guess.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Mr. Steak posted:

not digging the toalpaz vote cuz its been a while since they signed up for mafia and it'll be a bummer to chuck em this early

really? this is the 3rd game I've played with them in the last 2 weeks.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Bifauxnen posted:

Welp I'm here with the ability to hammer, but are there enough people here to still do a switch?

who would you want to switch to?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


I'd switch to Dancer, and if we don't will push to use our free kill on the tommorrow.

Not feeling the dragon or hum cases personally, wouldn't switch for them.

I could be convinced to do ETR though. Do we have enough people around to make the question worth considering?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


##vote ETR

Will be around till deadline.

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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your Personal Muse posted:

Id like you to expand on this. Is there someone on your list that you think wouldnít be a town lunch?

Especially in light of moving your vote to ETR after saying that.

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