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Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

this changes nothing, i am still dead inside

Data Graham posted:

Just more of this shell-game argument technique I mentioned yesterday, making people have to counterargue a completely absurd or contradictory tangential premise instead of the outrageous thing right at the heart of the matter.
Like the whole "died with, not of covid" smarm. "It was actually a heart attack that killed him." Yes, caused by the cardiac stress of a pulmonary system absolutely destroyed by covid.

I hate the 'oh they had underlying conditions, they would have died anyway' narrative because I have asthma, I have a life expectancy close to that of a normal person, but if I get covid I die in my forties or live at a drastically reduced capacity for maybe another 10 years.

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Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Oh right, it was in a different thread

Data Graham posted:

I feel like there's an awfully common tactic among people on the right, or people who live in a fantasy bubble in general, where they'll defend some ground that far out in advance of the actual vulnerable position, just because it helps wear you down.

Like someone who's complaining about covid and saying it's not real. "Oh, you knew someone who died? I'll bet they had some preexisting conditions or something!" And my reaction isn't "SO WHAT IF THEY DID, the flu doesn't kill half a fuckin million people in this country alone and WITH all the restaurants shut down and everyone wearing masks". It's "Daaahhhh no they didn't"

It weakens your own line of attack by throwing you off and making you shift your footing (or at least mine because I'm poo poo at arguing in person). But it's the same with this infrastructure stuff I think. They know it's more visceral to yell about "They said THIS and now they're doing THAT!!!" and if you're going to defend against it, you find yourself saying "But but but yeah but here's why wasn't a lie!!!" instead of "So the gently caress what, we're spending money on good things that we badly need, wanna tell me why elder care is bad? Huhhh??"

It's that LBJ thing about calling someone a pigfucker, in a way.

SpacePig
Apr 4, 2007

News of the
Clown Crew
On the Move




If you look at the real numbers, there are actually very few deaths in the US attributable to vehicular accidents. Most people in those incidents simply die of blood loss, or are taken off of life support well after the accident.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Bobby Deluxe posted:

Like the whole "died with, not of covid" smarm. "It was actually a heart attack that killed him." Yes, caused by the cardiac stress of a pulmonary system absolutely destroyed by covid.

I hate the 'oh they had underlying conditions, they would have died anyway' narrative because I have asthma, I have a life expectancy close to that of a normal person, but if I get covid I die in my forties or live at a drastically reduced capacity for maybe another 10 years.

One of the worst is people claiming that George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose just sort of accidentally at the same time a cop was kneeling on his neck.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





I'm still having trouble putting into adequately snide words the apparent premise behind "disproving" that he died because of having his neck knelt on.

"Therefore, BLM burned down the country last year because one black guy was a weakling!! Q.E.D., the whole premise of systemic racism is debunked!!!"

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



Data Graham posted:

I'm still having trouble putting into adequately snide words the apparent premise behind "disproving" that he died because of having his neck knelt on.

"Therefore, BLM burned down the country last year because one black guy was a weakling!! Q.E.D., the whole premise of systemic racism is debunked!!!"

See: grasping at straw

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007







Crumps Brother
Sep 5, 2007

-G-
Get Equipped with
Ground Game

Punkin Spunkin posted:

The worst part about true crime people is when they reach the grizzled gumshoe stage... they start trying to "solve cases" and start thinking "exposing myself to hosed up poo poo online" is a personality trait. They start thinking that "reading a bunch of murders" has endowed them with an understanding of law and justice. The fact that there's like entire reddit boards devoted to Jon Benet or those Dutch hikers is just sad imo.
I get why it's popular as a genre and only spreading though. People are loving depressed and feel generally powerless.
I think true crime producers are aware of this too. Two recent netflix docs both had entire sections of their stories dedicated to showing how when you, the viewer at home, get involved you're always wrong and the results just create a lot of innocent victims.

Roblo
Dec 10, 2007

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



Holy poo poo. That's spectacular

Is GloucesterRon taking the piss?

Edit: I feel like a whole bunch of clueless people are going to need educating soon about what's going on in NI

Katt
Nov 14, 2017



Roblo posted:

Holy poo poo. That's spectacular

Is GloucesterRon taking the piss?

Edit: I feel like a whole bunch of clueless people are going to need educating soon about what's going on in NI

F_Shit_Fitzgerald
Feb 2, 2017





Facebook cousin posted:

$15.00 an hour equals 2600.00 dollars a month. How about we raise social security to 2600.00 dollars a month for those of us that have already worked for it and paid our dues.

"FYGM". People who are working minimum wage jobs are, by definition, "working for it" and "paying their dues".

hawowanlawow
Jul 27, 2009



F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

"FYGM". People who are working minimum wage jobs are, by definition, "working for it" and "paying their dues".

it's every time

Read After Burning
Feb 19, 2013

"All this, for me? Ah, you didn't have to!"


learnincurve posted:

My actual area!

True crime predates detective fiction, in fact the reason detective fiction exists was because of the British public's lust for more true crime. It's also the reason the press in it's infancy was able to take off - the Guardian in particular owes it's existence to true crime.

If you want to find out more then the Detective fiction writer PD James and the historian T.A. Critchley wrote a book called the maul and the pear tree. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/573194.The_Maul_and_the_Pear_Tree which is about the murder that started the public's obsession with all murder - the 1811 Ratcliffe Highway Murders.

This is hella interesting, thank you! I'll check out the book.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Captain Monkey posted:

One of the worst is people claiming that George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose just sort of accidentally at the same time a cop was kneeling on his neck.

Data Graham posted:

I'm still having trouble putting into adequately snide words the apparent premise behind "disproving" that he died because of having his neck knelt on.
"Therefore, BLM burned down the country last year because one black guy was a weakling!! Q.E.D., the whole premise of systemic racism is debunked!!!"
Yeah, this drives me out of my loving mind and it's completely intentional. The entire point is to shift the discussion to the specifics of the cop's pose, or weight distribution, or tox reports, or the loving circus that is Steven Crowder "recreating" it with his buddies the way he "recreated" waterboarding using totally different methods, all so they don't have to actually address the real issue.
If they can get people talking about drugs or remarkably timed heart attacks or how it's actually the victim's fault, they can pull discourse and thought away from the real issues of which these deaths are emblematic. It's much easier for them to argue about fentanyl than about a nationwide epidemic of police brutality. It's easier to lie about the specifics of neck compression than the fact they were beating the poo poo out of him well before that, or about breathing and talking instead of whether any of this was okay in the first place. Don't get me wrong, it's bullshit even from their angle, because every coroner report proves them wrong, every autopsy says "Chauvin killed him", but they'd rather duck that and pretend they're experts than let people make any headway on national issues.

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

RELY NOT ON MY HONOR!!! FOR WHEN I OFFER MY WORD OF BOND, I TAKE NOT THAT VOW TO HEART!! CASUALLY, I BRING SHAME TO MY HOUSEHOLD AND RUIN TO THOSE WHO RELY ON MY COMMITMENT, BY SHIRKING MY AVOWED DUTY

I don't think George Flody being on drugs means he deserved to die anyways. They clearly could have fixated him in way where he didn't die.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



They just claim without evidence that the coroner's report said it was a fentanyl overdose that occurred at that exact second, and the cop was blameless. And when you reply that no, that's not the case, they're already on to the next argument in their gish gallop.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Nazis like to get in on this too: "The Holocaust never happened/was greatly exaggerated but would it really have been so bad if it were true?" and so on

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Bobby Deluxe posted:

Like the whole "died with, not of covid" smarm. "It was actually a heart attack that killed him." Yes, caused by the cardiac stress of a pulmonary system absolutely destroyed by covid.

I hate the 'oh they had underlying conditions, they would have died anyway' narrative because I have asthma, I have a life expectancy close to that of a normal person, but if I get covid I die in my forties or live at a drastically reduced capacity for maybe another 10 years.

Its so dumb, it's like say AIDS isn't a big deal because technically no one has ever died from AIDS. They've died from some other disease that there body wasn't able to fight off because AIDS absolutely destroyed their immune system.

Grimdude
Sep 24, 2006

It was a shame how he carried on


Just broadly claiming that everything you disagree with is "fake news" really does get some killer mileage unfortunately.

"Don't believe everything you see!"
"Here are multiple verified sources that clearly indicate you are incorrect on this matter."
"Those are fake news! My endless supply of videos where some bald rear end in a top hat with sunglasses is ranting in his car are all the proof I need!"

Repeat for any and all political issues.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

What is this boring crap we're watching? Check if Antiques Roadshow is on




Read After Burning posted:

This is hella interesting, thank you! I'll check out the book.

My favourite what the gently caress? Early detective thing is; what if I told you that in 1695 Sir Isaac Newton hunted down the criminal William Chaloner like a dog?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6437943-newton-and-the-counterfeiter

Newton and the Counterfeiter: The Unknown Detective Career of the World's Greatest Scientist

F_Shit_Fitzgerald
Feb 2, 2017





Grimdude posted:

Just broadly claiming that everything you disagree with is "fake news" really does get some killer mileage unfortunately.

"Don't believe everything you see!"
"Here are multiple verified sources that clearly indicate you are incorrect on this matter."
"Those are fake news! My endless supply of videos where some bald rear end in a top hat with sunglasses is ranting in his car are all the proof I need!"

Repeat for any and all political issues.

It's especially effective when they post something from, say, Washington Times and you object because it's not a trustworthy source. Then they get to say that you're being a hypocrite because "You complained about me saying 'fake news' and now you're doing it!".

I try not to engage with the other side much anymore. It's actually kind of a shame, because I don't want to get locked in a bubble, but it's hard to carry on a conversation with someone when you don't know what color the sky is in their world.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


Bobby Deluxe posted:

A few years ago I had to cancel autorenew on my xbox live gold ( I had a 360 and back then you could only cancel by phone) and they had a voice recognition system called Max. I have a pretty middle of the road generic English accent and even I couldn't get it to understand me.

Eventually I had to just put on the exact same ridiculous American game-show host accent the recording was using to get it to even let me into the menus.

My brother's wife is from Northern Ireland (Newtownabbey) and she has never been able to get siri or any kind of voice recognition to work at all.

Also that I have never seen a game with automated text filters that hasn't hosed it by either being overzealous and falling foul of the scunthorpe problem, or by missing banned words entirely when people insert spaces or punctuation or mis-spell words.

Part of the problem is that AI doesn't get context, it tends to just look for the combination of letters and then use a black box process to have it work out patterns that it inevitably applies wrong, especially in nuanced cases like race and offense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqAu-DDlINs

Gats Akimbo
May 28, 2007

Ignoring this post


Data Graham posted:

Not to pile on with the RacismFiltr app but god what a perfect illustration of the tech-will-solve-everything mindset. We don't need to do the hard work of training bigotry out of society, we can just make it so you don't have to hear it if you're such a snowflake. Freedom and choice for all!

Never mind also that if someone's shouting slurs at you in-game, the slurs aren't the only lovely thing about them you are still having to deal with, they're still there yelling at you in real-time and being an abusive rear end with no consequences even if all you hear is bleeps (especially because a game with this filter in it will just use it as an excuse to not have any moderation)

Concentration camps? Well you don't have to look at them, problem solved

We shall agree to disagree

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL






The only thing keeping this from being reality is strict safety regulations preventing techbros from successfully "disrupting" safety critical industries.

E: except for cars and spaceflight.

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010

Catching up to god quicker



https://twitter.com/rubeeye127/status/1378884258039799809?s=20

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.



Lipstick Apathy


So what decade is that zoo from?

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

RELY NOT ON MY HONOR!!! FOR WHEN I OFFER MY WORD OF BOND, I TAKE NOT THAT VOW TO HEART!! CASUALLY, I BRING SHAME TO MY HOUSEHOLD AND RUIN TO THOSE WHO RELY ON MY COMMITMENT, BY SHIRKING MY AVOWED DUTY

Reposting random "patriot" accounts from Twitter seems too easy.

Bismuth
Jun 10, 2010

I registered this account 3 years before SU started and 6 years before that character showed up and I could write at least 4 paragraphs about why I hate the show, the creator, the fans, and that specific character


Hell Gem


I bet this person wouldn't last a day naked, chasing animals over vast distances to finally them down with a spear

He'd definitely get arrested

Read After Burning
Feb 19, 2013

"All this, for me? Ah, you didn't have to!"


Tweet that aged poorly:

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1380200140439498754

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1380268341135310848

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Roblo posted:

Holy poo poo. That's spectacular

Is GloucesterRon taking the piss?

Edit: I feel like a whole bunch of clueless people are going to need educating soon about what's going on in NI

I think specifically that picture is from unionists trying to firebomb the cop cars and accidentally setting themselves on fire, so the idea that the IRA would probably dislike them is at least accurate, though i don't think I would describe the unionist paramilitaries as antifa

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.





I'll be honest, while I do think we absolutely need some massive overhauls in gun laws I kinda wish Democrats wouldn't work on it until after we have universal healthcare and a comprehensive overhaul of the tax system that no longer so grossly benefits the super rich, because every time they try and do something about it it's just a massive fundraiser for lovely Republicans who want to undo every slightly progressive thing we've managed to accomplish.

poo poo like this makes me genuinely think the Democratic establishment genuinely wants to lose in the mid terms.

Hokkaido Anxiety
May 21, 2007

slub club 2013


Skwirl posted:

poo poo like this makes me genuinely think the Democratic establishment genuinely wants to lose in the mid terms.

... I mean yeah?

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




https://twitter.com/robpalkwriter/status/1380097275381317632?s=20

Is it gay to read fiction?

Oh god
https://twitter.com/robpalkwriter/status/1380100003516051459?s=20

Yeah, I'll definitely take advice on being a proper man from Noel Gallagher.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Well, I did learn in school that guys often stop reading for fun around puberty, but not why. Turns out it's toxic masculinity!

lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012






Skwirl posted:

https://twitter.com/robpalkwriter/status/1380097275381317632?s=20

Is it gay to read fiction?

Oh god
https://twitter.com/robpalkwriter/status/1380100003516051459?s=20

Yeah, I'll definitely take advice on being a proper man from Noel Gallagher.

Is that why Oasis ripped off so many existing songs? Coming up with new melodies is a female trait?

Lil Swamp Booger Baby
Aug 1, 1981

MTV




Ernest Hemingway was gay according to these new standards.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta nuke something


Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

Ernest Hemingway was gay according to these new standards.

Well, he definitely liked to deep-throat a long hard shaft that delivered hot loads.

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005



Skwirl posted:

I'll be honest, while I do think we absolutely need some massive overhauls in gun laws I kinda wish Democrats wouldn't work on it until after we have universal healthcare and a comprehensive overhaul of the tax system that no longer so grossly benefits the super rich, because every time they try and do something about it it's just a massive fundraiser for lovely Republicans who want to undo every slightly progressive thing we've managed to accomplish.

poo poo like this makes me genuinely think the Democratic establishment genuinely wants to lose in the mid terms.

Congrats, you figured it all out. Its all just a scam to keep money in power.

hawowanlawow
Jul 27, 2009



Skwirl posted:

https://twitter.com/robpalkwriter/status/1380097275381317632?s=20

Is it gay to read fiction?

Oh god
https://twitter.com/robpalkwriter/status/1380100003516051459?s=20

Yeah, I'll definitely take advice on being a proper man from Noel Gallagher.

a man with a fork in a world of soup

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Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Bloody Hedgehog posted:

Well, he definitely liked to deep-throat a long hard shaft that delivered hot loads.

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