|
OwlFancier posted:Are you really surprised that right wingers are only interested in black people as intellectual property? 
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 04:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:07 |
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Are you really surprised that right wingers are only interested in black people as intellectual property? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 05:00
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:The recent protests have really highlighted just how many people don't actually give a poo poo about what people say, but how they say it. I've run into so many arguments, both online and in real life where they're harder to ignore, where the main crux of the argument is that they "support" BLM but wish they'd do it "peacefully" usually followed by quoting MLK or something - and pointing out that people have been protesting, peacefully, for literal years and those people have been getting ignored at best or had the government going after their jobs or people cheering as cars drove through their protests in more severe cases doesn't change anything because so many people don't actually give a gently caress about anything and never will. They just get deeply upset that now they have to hear about it and can't ignore it. If they want to quote MLK, give them "Letter From Birmingham Jail" to read, where he explicitly condemns their tone trolling.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 05:12
|
|
|
AlbieQuirky posted:I honestly didn’t have any mental picture of Mrs. Butterworth’s human form. The original model for Mrs Buttersworth was Butterfly McQueen, aka Prissy from Gone With the Wind
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 05:14
|
|
|
Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:Odd how these imaginary black people are so important that the country literally cannot function without them, but real black people going to school in buildings with no plumbing and being murdered by the police are a whole bunch of nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 05:46
|
|
|
Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:Odd how these imaginary black people are so important that the country literally cannot function without them, but real black people going to school in buildings with no plumbing and being murdered by the police are a whole bunch of nothing. I absolutely agree but it's also a total fallacy that getting rid of these corporate brands will do anything to fix these societal problems.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 06:04
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:I absolutely agree but it's also a total fallacy that getting rid of these corporate brands will do anything to fix these societal problems. It's a necessary, small part of the overall goal. Obviously it's not sufficient, and obviously it's a drop in the bucket, but what's a bucketful of water if not a whole bunch of drops?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 06:18
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:I absolutely agree but it's also a total fallacy that getting rid of these corporate brands will do anything to fix these societal problems. It’s just brands following popular trends. Mega corps don’t have personal beliefs beyond maximizing shareholder value and that is what they’re doing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 06:19
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:I mean, in the long run, using less "Happy Slave" iconography will further remove it from American cultural consciousness to the point where kids may never encounter it all. Oh, I agree totally, I just also think comparing getting rid of Aunt Jemima to fixing Flint, Michigan's leaded water or stopping police shootings of black men is... not a helpful comparison.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 06:35
|
|
|
Kantesu posted:After a cursory Wikipedia search, seems like total bullshit; ~12 million slaves shipped "Across the Atlantic" over the course of the slave trade, ~1 million immigrants from Africa to the US since the mid-1960s (there were some pretty severe quotas prior to that point). Prof.David Eltis, who is the director of the Trans-Atlantic Slave database, estimates only 388,000 enslaved people were sent to N America. The rest of the 10 million or so that survived the middle passage, went to plantations and mines in the Caribbean and South America. What's really important is that there are 40 million black Americans today, most of which are descendants of enslaved Africans in the US or Caribbean. Pragur is trying to make it seem like the collective outrage and damage black Americans suffer as a result of slavery is a false claim. Most of your ancestors were not enslaved, so why are you blaming us for it now? Ignores that the average black American will have more non-enslaved ancestors than enslaved ones because that's how math works.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 08:06
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:The recent protests have really highlighted just how many people don't actually give a poo poo about what people say, but how they say it. I've run into so many arguments, both online and in real life where they're harder to ignore, where the main crux of the argument is that they "support" BLM but wish they'd do it "peacefully" usually followed by quoting MLK or something - and pointing out that people have been protesting, peacefully, for literal years and those people have been getting ignored at best or had the government going after their jobs or people cheering as cars drove through their protests in more severe cases doesn't change anything because so many people don't actually give a gently caress about anything and never will. They just get deeply upset that now they have to hear about it and can't ignore it. This has definitely been the case in Australia where there have been solidarity BLM protests, which have also brought up issues about Indigenous incarceration. Comments are like 'why are they bringing in issues from America' or 'what has that got to with Australians'. There have been BLM protests in Australia multiple times in the past 5 or 6 years. One of the issues that gets brought up is that none of the 400+ aboriginal deaths in custody in Australia (since ~1980) has ever resulted in a police officer being convicted (to my knowledge). When you hear the speakers at these events explain how their children or friends died at the hands of police it's hard to believe how that's possible. Counter arguments to that have included stuff like 'a death in custody includes police vehicle pursuits where the person escaping dies in a crash' which based on a govt report that person shared, accounts for something like 52 out of 167 deaths between 1990 and 2018, but then you have to ask What about the rest? There are still 100+ you've failed to mention. Further still you discover that many people think that 'custody' means 'in prison', which might explain that attitude of 'they deserved to die' because maybe the assumption is that they were already sentenced criminals, when in reality police custody excludes prison entirely, except for transport to and from performed by police. https://aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr21?fbclid=IwAR0YA6gKRfVejgbNgTl-Qb-IrkkZs7_4B43FFu750rHIak3Ou59csynSRYo There are some people who fight really hard for the statistics, and it's good to a degree to reveal where stats might be getting misrepresented or used to manipulate emotions, but like with the above example more people have to ask 'What number of deaths in custody is ok before a protest happens? Should everyone pack up their poo poo because a percentage of them were recorded on a technicality? Or does that technicality just handwave the context surrounding the deaths?' Aboriginal speakers at a BLM rally I attended explained how that when they were kids, they got taught to prepare for dealing with the police - not to take action against them, but that they would inevitably be confronted and need to know how to behave so as to avoid arrest - these speakers were in their 60's, and were having to say the same things to their own children: 'You will be targeted, they will not be fair to you'. It seems like no surprise to me that aboriginal people might run the gently caress away without explanation when police appear - police chase them, a death occurs, it gets recorded as a death in custody stat and the public are left to assume why, with a majority usually concluding that someone who is running away from the police must be guilty of something. This happened like last week at the height of BLM and racial tensions. A cop arrests an aboriginal teen for bad mouthing him, and uses a leg sweep to put him face first on the ground. Might seem tame depending on what part of the world you're from, but the responses are usually the same anywhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpJXMa3PTXA  'This aint America' is an especially weird response, since 'Obviously no, they loving shoot people dead over there for less' would be the answer, but it reads to me like they think this is a more hardcore form of justice? There has been one long statement on FB floating around from an ex Western Australian officer about how their police target aboriginal australians to boost their arrest numbers, and officers are basically taught to look down on them, knowing that most of the homeless have no way of defending themselves in court and there will be no repercussions for the officer. He's taking it to federal court but I don't imagine much will happen. https://www.watoday.com.au/national...XFdXl_GNRT4-e3A https://www.facebook.com/groups/ahrca2012/permalink/3524712587556723/ TheMostFrench has a new favorite as of 09:56 on Jun 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 09:36
|
|
|
People, like dogs, mostly hear tone while nose deep up their own rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 09:42
|
|
|
Whenever I see Australian responses like this around a mostly American (or British, or Canadian) context, I'm always struck by how much more vicious they sound. I don't think it's because it's coming from a place of greater hate than it is in other countries, but the Australian culture feels so much more permissive of more hateful and violent language. It's weird, because I don't really think it's reflected in actions. It's weird to have this come up around tone arguments, because FUUUUUUUUCK does the average Australian lose a normal tone argument... and yet, yeah, like you said, the same stuff applies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 09:54
|
|
|
TheMostFrench posted:Counter arguments to that have included stuff like 'a death in custody includes police vehicle pursuits where the person escaping dies in a crash' which based on a govt report that person shared, accounts for something like 52 out of 167 deaths between 1990 and 2018, but then you have to ask What about the rest? There are still 100+ you've failed to mention. Also, that's still bad. In fact, if you're arguing that deaths in custody aren't that bad because they're all criminals or whatever then you should still be on the side of making sure the police aren't unnecessarily putting other random passersby in danger by, eg. instigating a high-speed chase resulting in one or more car crashes. There's literally no position from which to argue that the police causing car crashes is a good thing. Like, do they think real police are like the ones in GTA and if the suspect breaks line of sight then they just give up?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 10:12
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:Also, that's still bad. In fact, if you're arguing that deaths in custody aren't that bad because they're all criminals or whatever then you should still be on the side of making sure the police aren't unnecessarily putting other random passersby in danger by, eg. instigating a high-speed chase resulting in one or more car crashes. There's literally no position from which to argue that the police causing car crashes is a good thing. Like, do they think real police are like the ones in GTA and if the suspect breaks line of sight then they just give up? It's an excuse to undermine the movement. 'They're making it up (they being left wing media/BLM), it's not actually that bad - look at these stats.' This was the guy who linked to the stats report. It was all in response to a newspaper article saying 'The greatest danger to negroes and aboriginal is themselves.'   'Show me the data and convince me' basically translates to 'Prove me wrong on my terms. If you can't do that it means I'm right.'
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 10:43
|
|
|
ol mate pete should absolutely get hosed
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 11:33
|
|
|
there wolf posted:Prof.David Eltis, who is the director of the Trans-Atlantic Slave database, estimates only 388,000 enslaved people were sent to N America. The rest of the 10 million or so that survived the middle passage, went to plantations and mines in the Caribbean and South America. He's trying to make it sound like 90% or whatever of black people in the US immigrated here voluntarily from Africa looking for the American Dream Which, like ... uh
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 12:09
|
|
|
Dungeons and Dragons is removing racial modifiers and rewriting the more problematic elements of their lore around drow/orcs and boy howdy are there some takes   
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 12:41
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I mean yeah I know there's the "I am definitely not a nazi I just have very complicated theories about race science and nationalism" lot but I was under the impression that people who out and out say "hello yes I am a literal nazi" run into some problems. The modern Nazi wears a suit for the cameras, but internally it's as ugly as ever and nothing ever happens to them. Race science isn't that popular because it died with a bang in the Führerbunker, that's more of a thing totally internalised in US culture. But German Nazis do import a lot of other US propaganda, so there's a lot of talk about the Weltjudentum and Kulturbolschewismus, just using American words instead of the originals. They also imported the sovcit model whole cloth. The Verfassungsschutz, the agency responsible for countering those threats, has been implicated in a number of murders committed by Nazis. Maaßen, who led the Verfassungsschutz for quite a while, even coached the Nazi party on how to evade surveillance by his own agency. They increased their focus on the left instead. Now, to be fair, Maaßen got ousted eventually, and being a Nazi is a lot less tolerated in Germany than many other places, but it's not exactly peachy either. You can't go sieg heiling in public, but you can certainly achieve 15% of the vote with dogwhistling.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 12:42
|
|
|
SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Dungeons and Dragons is removing racial modifiers and rewriting the more problematic elements of their lore around drow/orcs and boy howdy are there some takes Got any sources for the actual changes? I had a quick look around and I couldn't google anything up, I'm curious to what the changes actually amount to. Though are they just removing racial modifiers entirely? That part honestly seems like a bit of a weird take, since it doesn't exactly seem racist to go "this species is bigger and stronger than humans, +1 strong."
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 12:53
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Got any sources for the actual changes? I had a quick look around and I couldn't google anything up, I'm curious to what the changes actually amount to. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/diversity-and-dnd quote:Later this year, we will release a product (not yet announced) that offers a way for a player to customize their character’s origin, including the option to change the ability score increases that come from being an elf, a dwarf, or one of D&D's many other playable folk. This option emphasizes that each person in the game is an individual with capabilities all their own.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 12:58
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Got any sources for the actual changes? I had a quick look around and I couldn't google anything up, I'm curious to what the changes actually amount to. From the sounds of it, and keep in mind we know very little right now: 1) They're removing racial ability score penalties entirely. No more, 'welp, orcs are just genetically stupid!' 2) You will now (when the book comes out) be able to have your culture/background influence your ability scores, instead of your race. Like, 'your character was a gladiator, +1 strong', or 'your character studied at the wizard school, +1 think'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:01
|
|
|
Slippery slope people be like "Soon it will be illegal to say such innocuous things as 'female humans are statistically smaller in stature and body/muscle mass than males' or 'people of African or East Asian descent have perceptible phenotypical differences from Caucasians', and retconning the fiction we consume is just the first step toward normalizing that" Like ... there is a difference between that and excluding real people from privileged society my dudes
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:05
|
|
|
SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Dungeons and Dragons is removing racial modifiers and rewriting the more problematic elements of their lore around drow/orcs and boy howdy are there some takes Come on, these comments have got to be written by an A.I. No real human with a functioning brain writes with diction like that
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:07
|
|
|
Guilty posted:Come on, these comments have got to be written by an A.I. No real human with a functioning brain writes with diction like that You've got an assumption here you may want to examine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:17
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/blacksabbath/status/1272929192758226945?s=21 Which is rad but lots of iosm in the comments
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:20
|
|
|
SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Dungeons and Dragons is removing racial modifiers and rewriting the more problematic elements of their lore around drow/orcs and boy howdy are there some takes loving "reflection of reality" is sending me people made out of pure metaphysical mind stuff with, like, four arms and three lives and light-based metabolism or whatever*: realistic they're not a hivemind: unrealistic *I couldn't be bothered to look up actual weird dnd races fluffyDeathbringer has a new favorite as of 13:27 on Jun 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:24
|
|
|
fluffyDeathbringer posted:loving "reflection of reality" is sending me I read a d&d book where everyone was like “gently caress Minotaurs”, and there was a good Minotaur who was like “Minotaurs aren’t evil we’re just magically enslaved by the dark lord” and there’s like a 48 hours kind of thing with the legendary hero and the dark lord is defeated and everyone was still like “gently caress Minotaurs” Which makes me wonder if the company had like an editorial mandate “you can’t have people like Minotaurs! They’re monsters that would ruin the game!”
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:31
|
|
|
fluffyDeathbringer posted:loving "reflection of reality" is sending me Most playable D&D races are similar in form to humans for game balance reasons. You can't play like, an immortal star dragon or anything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:33
|
|
|
I'm reminded of the bit in character creation in the Shadowrun Returns series where one screen that has the in-character background info says there's no evidence to suggest that trolls are less intelligent than anyone else and then the next screen shows their stats their intelligence actually is capped well below any other race. Like, I see what you were going for there, but you accidentally made it more racist; now you it looks like you're making an analogy to real-world racism and saying that the racists are right.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:39
|
|
|
GreenMetalSun posted:Most playable D&D races are similar in form to humans for game balance reasons. You can't play like, an immortal star dragon or anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Wyrms?wprov=sfla1 Does real life count? There was a house I passed on the way to work with a Confederate flag that had an assault rifle and the text COME AND TAKE IT. It disappeared over the weekend
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:40
|
|
|
Minotaurs are loving sweet. Favorite DnD character I ever ran was a Minotaur monk. He'd been a farmer who got tired of farming and went to punch demons for a living.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:41
|
|
|
GreenMetalSun posted:From the sounds of it, and keep in mind we know very little right now:
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:44
|
|
|
Guilty posted:Come on, these comments have got to be written by an A.I. No real human with a functioning brain writes with diction like that DnD grognards are feces given sapience. I have met these types of people in every game store I've gone to and they always ruin everything for everybody.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:47
|
|
|
fluffyDeathbringer posted:loving "reflection of reality" is sending me Faerun (and other D&D worlds) are already what that dude says, though. Paladins and clerics other very-aligned types signal their virtue by casting MAGICAL loving SPELLS, and they never were reflections of reality in any way. I know he's just saying "I don't want my problematic poo poo to go away because I'm a hateful rear end in a top hat," but taking his words as written (which tabletop gamers love to do), he doesn't want Faerun to be the Faerun it's been for the last 40+ years (only now with less rape).
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:47
|
|
|
GreenMetalSun posted:Most playable D&D races are similar in form to humans for game balance reasons. You can't play like, an immortal star dragon or anything. Also because if Bob is playing a creature ten times as big and bulky as the rest of the party, good luck getting them to have adventures in the same place.  Aside from that, these changes sound pretty alright and agreeable. I can't see anything to get upset about. beats for junkies posted:I know he's just saying "I don't want my problematic poo poo to go away because I'm a hateful rear end in a top hat," but taking his words as written (which tabletop gamers love to do), he doesn't want Faerun to be the Faerun it's been for the last 40+ years (only now with less rape). Part of the issue is also that some of the grogosphere have been successful at connecting "SJW" edits with "corporate meddling" so people go "noooooooooo, these soulless capitalists are watering down the design and uniqueness of [thing I like]!" A lot of these people simply can't comprehend the idea that perhaps the designers and developers wanted less racism in the thing they were working on, or that they thought after ten years of being titty bait, that girl in the videogame should be allowed to wear a shirt. It's gotta be corporate meddling, clearly if you unfettered the artists, all they'd want to do would be drawing tits all day. PurpleXVI has a new favorite as of 13:51 on Jun 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:48
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Got any sources for the actual changes? I had a quick look around and I couldn't google anything up, I'm curious to what the changes actually amount to.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:57
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Look at it like this: humans can have +1 int. Orks can't. What does that say about Orks, who tend to be the ham fisted aboriginal culture stand ins? All Orks need to be Warhammer 40k orkz. They fight and they loot. If you are not fighting, then you are a pansy no matter the race. They are magical magpies that collect shiny things and just keep fighting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 14:04
|
|
|
Ambitious Spider posted:I read a d&d book where everyone was like “gently caress Minotaurs”, and there was a good Minotaur who was like “Minotaurs aren’t evil we’re just magically enslaved by the dark lord” and there’s like a 48 hours kind of thing with the legendary hero and the dark lord is defeated and everyone was still like “gently caress Minotaurs” Basically yes. You can’t have minotaurs move out of “things that are generally acceptable to kill” or it ruins how the game’s set up. Editorial didn’t want to lose Minotaurs as a thing in the Monster Manual. (I’m thinking these are Knaak’s books on the Minotaurs of Taladas in Dragonlance, FYI.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 14:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:07 |
|
|
Whiskey A Go Go! posted:All Orks need to be Warhammer 40k orkz. They fight and they loot. If you are not fighting, then you are a pansy no matter the race. They are magical magpies that collect shiny things and just keep fighting. Someone who's a better artist than me draw an ork peacock Splicer has a new favorite as of 14:19 on Jun 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 14:17
|
|