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dordreff
Jul 16, 2013


BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

Is it ever at any point made clear how many wizards there actually are or the scale of wizard socitey? The only prominent employers ever seen is the ministry of magic amd hogwarts. What level of private imdustry is there amd of theres none how is the ministry funded? Is Wizard society secretly socialist or communist?

the ministry consider themselves part of the regular British government even though they don't actually report to anyone or have elections or anything, so i'd guess they just steal a bunch of muggle taxes for funding

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Smirking_Serpent
Aug 27, 2009






Buglord

dordreff posted:

the ministry consider themselves part of the regular British government even though they don't actually report to anyone or have elections or anything, so i'd guess they just steal a bunch of muggle taxes for funding

them just stealing the fruits of muggle labor would be way cooler than whatever secret economy bullshit

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


I think for like, minister of magic, there is some kinda election or some such.

But obviously mugged aren't included in this or anything.

reignofevil fucked around with this message at 21:50 on May 29, 2020

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.


Sydin posted:

Harry Potter really is the story of a rich, privileged white guy failing upwards until he becomes a cop.

"Yer a wizard 'arry and you're basically the most important person alive as far as us other wizzes is concerned! I'm here to take you to our magical world!"
"Cor that's great 'Agrid, the literal giant I just met!

do wizards have footie"
"Well, sort of, bu-"
"What kinda toys and candy do they have"
"Oh, well, a lot, I gue-"
"Ehhh, I'm bored with hearing about all that, I'm just going to hang out with the first kid I meet. I'll figure stuff out by hearing his incredulous reactions whenever something normal to him is novel to me."

dordreff
Jul 16, 2013


reignofevil posted:

I think for like, minister of magic, there is some kinda election or some such.

But obviously mugged aren't included in this or anything.

there's no elections mentioned in the books and all the changes in minister seem to talk about it like they were directly appointed (Fudge is first mentioned as having been given the job when Dumbledore turned it down, Scrimgeour is introduced by Fudge going to Tony Blair and saying "i got fired, here's my replacement", the dude who turns into a sea urchin gets appointed by Voldemort, and Kingsley is appointed as "interim minister" and just stays there) but the wiki says Rowling claimed they have elections every 7 years, so i guess you're right

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute



Pillbug

If you hold the stated workings of wizard society up to anything beyond cursory scrutiny it completely falls apart so

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

If its just a division of normal British government and the PM appoints them then doesn't the Minister of Magic need to hold a seat in normal muggle parlaiment? Not familiar with the British constitution particularly as applied to Children's fantasy novels.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Do the pocket dimension gated communities where wizards live so they don't have to consort with muggles have their own parliamentary districts? What are the wizard opinions on Brexit?

The whole secret world concept doesn't really work well if you put a lot of dramatic weight on it, especially when the crux of the story is a guy who is attacking the normals that they're not allowed to know about to defend against. It kinda allows kids to imagine that the secret world is just around the corner for them to fall into, but otherwise it just creates all these weird holes and workarounds.

The incredibly close proximity between wizards and muggles kinda intensifies things. Like if the secret world is another planet or dimension or a mile underground, it's a lot different. Also it's fine for a more chill story where they don't put a lot of drama about keeping the secret for no clear reason. But usually, with any story about some big magic fantasy thing, people want to know about the big magic fantasy thing and not how it doesn't change anything in the world around it. It's such a weird unfantastical premise.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

Sydin posted:

If you hold the stated workings of wizard society up to anything beyond cursory scrutiny it completely falls apart so

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



I demand more verisimilitude from my Children's / Young Adult books by a novice writer!

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.


Daikloktos posted:

Xenophillius is able to generally get away with wearing what Krum associates as Grindlewald's mark to the point of wanting to belt him straight away for wearing it. Made it seem like Britain wasn't too directly involved with him.

I think that's because he's generally considered a kook, and the whole Deathly Hallows things is regarded mostly as a fairy tale. Dumbledore's duel with Grindelwald is famous, and it's one of the main reasons why Dumbledore is sorta a national hero.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I dunno, whenever I start going over Harry Potter in my head, I just start thinking of a bunch of other stuff that occupies the same space that I'd rather think about.

Like the contemporary series I preferred was the Bartimaeus Trilogy, which is about wizards being an aristocratic upper class of assholes who are overthrown at the end of the series, and the main viewpoint character is actually a magical spirit servant to the foolish child prodigy wizard.

I also remember having more fun with Artemis Fowl, although I dropped off the series after a while and I heard that it went downhill. It provided a more elaborate setting with magical creatures coexisting that I don't think any were human racial stereotypes. A whole lot of it is just a buddy-cop story.

More recently, I don't read children's or y/a literature any more, but I do read a lot of manga. Witch Hat Atelier presents a world where magic is common, but the way of doing it is a more closely-kept secret because back in the day there were big huge magic wars that they had to scale back from. The main character learns magic, but also the outlaw witches want to tempt her into using the forbidden arts (that are forbidden because they hurt people and ruin lives).

The manga Flying Witch is just a peaceful slice of life about a witch in high school. She doesn't really make an effort to keep magic secret, even though the setting is just the real world. It doesn't matter. It's fine. It's fun.

The Ancient Magus's Bride has a girl get whisked off to a world of magic and learning to value herself in between learning and fighting monsters. No actual romance involved. The series even recently has moved on to her going to a school to learn alternative forms of magic. It's not exactly clear how secret magic is from the "normal" world, but it doesn't really seem to matter much.

There's also Fullmetal Alchemist, which is just really good all around.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Sydin posted:

If you hold the stated workings of wizard society up to anything beyond cursory scrutiny it completely falls apart so

To be fair this also applies to the real british government.

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


MonsieurChoc posted:

To be fair this also applies to the real british government.

Like 70% of Harry Potter "not making sense" or whatever is just non-British people not understanding British cultural touchstones.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

oscar winning cinema enthusiast





Daikloktos posted:

Xenophillius is able to generally get away with wearing what Krum associates as Grindlewald's mark to the point of wanting to belt him straight away for wearing it. Made it seem like Britain wasn't too directly involved with him.

It's a swastika joke. Krum sees Xenophilius wearing a swastika at the wedding and goes "what the gently caress" and Xenophilius is all "it's an ancient Buddhist love symbol, honest!"

e: naturally the other Brits just assume he's a big racist and don't care.

Roach Warehouse
Nov 1, 2010





SlothfulCobra posted:

I dunno, whenever I start going over Harry Potter in my head, I just start thinking of a bunch of other stuff that occupies the same space that I'd rather think about.

Like the contemporary series I preferred was the Bartimaeus Trilogy, which is about wizards being an aristocratic upper class of assholes who are overthrown at the end of the series, and the main viewpoint character is actually a magical spirit servant to the foolish child prodigy wizard.


Man the Bartimeaus trilogy ruled.

In the second book a new protagonist is introduced who is a member of the "commoner" (non-wizard. we're not being subtle with metaphors here) resistance. As a kid she gets in legal trouble for damaging an rear end in a top hat magicians car during cricket. Against everyone's advice she tries to fight it in court and almost wins because the guy didn't show up. Just before judgement, he arrives and then the judge is like "oh well obviously he's a respectable memebr of society. Have a massive fine for your impudence, you literal child."

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reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008



Shoutout to the Bartimaeus Trilogy quadrilogy. The second book is about as interesting as doing your taxes BUT it builds up some important poo poo for the final book and on the whole I found it to be Magic + Alt History + Smug Demons and that was so completely my poo poo.

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