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Julias posted:I'm neutral on whether or not Carrot should be a strawhat. I'd personally think it'd be very cool and thematically appropriate to have her join, and I felt like she pulled her weight in Whole Cake enough to justify her...but in Wano she's been completely ignored outside of showing up in a few panels to remind us that she's still here. I could see her arc resolving with her defeating Perospero to avenge Pedro, and then joining up with the rest of the minks to potentially aid/join in with the strawhat armada for the final battle. Most of the Strawhats have been just... there. Zoro got a fun thing to do with swords, Robin actually got some cool spy stuff to do and everyone else just kind of... hung out. Sanji got a transformation sequence and that's basically it. Thinking back off the top of my head I can't think of anything Ussop, Franky, Chopper, Nami or Brook actually did. I remember the cover stories they came up with, but no actual impactful actions after that. Wano is a great arc, but it's never going to feel as good as something like Enies Lobby simply because it's too big. The scale is amazing and it's incredibly well put together, but it's less the adventures of the Strawhat Pirates and more a sweeping epic in its own right, with Strawhat cameos. Which is to say it's totally natural that Carrot hasn't done much in Wano, even though she's clearly earned a spot on the crew. Funky Valentine posted:Kinemon and Momo have been on the boat for an even longer time, doesn't automatically mean they're in the running. Carrot actually has a sense of adventure that fits with the rest of the Strawhats. "Has been around for multiple arcs" and "would want to join" mean that Carrot can join if she wants, as far as I'm concerned.
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Apr 13, 2020 11:09
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If Wano is like, completely all set by the end of this, domestically, especially if it's only all set because of the Strawhats and their influence, I can see Kinemon maybe formally joining their crew as a way to protect his country from the outside world/open his country to the outside world. But that said... Kinemon has a devil fruit power? What? When was the last time he used it? Obviously I could look it up, but I have a pretty good grasp on the story, but have totally forgotten if he ever used any kind of ability.
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Apr 14, 2020 07:51
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I just want you all to know I've been judging everyone by where they put Mr 2 in their lists. I'm happy to report that you are all lovely people. Thank you.
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Apr 17, 2020 08:26
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I really want to see that spread of Onigashima in color. You'd expect something drab from an evil skull fortress, or like all red and black or something edgy from Kaido, but there are sakura and pine trees in the foreground and lily pads in the water. I think the vibe is that of a pretty water garden. Maybe a tacky high end pretty water garden, but this is an aesthetically Wano-style place. Wano in general is full of really cool locations.
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Apr 24, 2020 09:06
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Honestly, I love Sabo. His dumb steampunk hat is great, shut up. But for real, the Revolutionaries are the best faction, and the fact that Luffy's brother and father are in that faction are clear indications that they're the best, and Oda is a low-key anarchist. I mean, "authority" is the clearest villain in One Piece, at least. And that's cool, and Sabo is a way more explicit "gently caress you, authority" than Ace was. But more to the point, I'm super drunk and just watched Stampede and loved that sweet mess, and have come to a profound conclusion: Usopp is the best Strawhat. This is non-negotiable. It's just a fact. Brook is hilarious and amazing. He's had unbelievable moments in the Whole Cake saga, whenever I think about him I feel he's my favorite, and his heart-wrenching backstory contrasted with his absurd and wonderful appearance is always a pleasure. He's hilarious and fun, but he's not Usopp. Robin is incredibly underrated- her principled fight against Yama is still one of the best in the series, and being such a deadpan competent contrast to the zany strawhat crew, but still somehow loving every moment of their insanity, makes her incredibly appealing. But she's not Usopp. Sanji has had a long unfortunate time of being garbage, but his "Mr. Prince" persona that pops up every now and then is still amazing. The fact that he's just the cook, but thinks he's a rival to Zoro, the obvious number two, is a great core to his character. The fact that he actually knows when to split off and do something amazing, like when he closed the Gates of Justice make him a really, really cool character. It's straightforward, but it works. (Unless he's being a perv, or transphobe, in which case he's the worst.) But he's no Usopp. Usopp is Usopp. You can't take that away from him. He's the undignified coward everyman. He sucks. He shits his pants in the dumbest way whenever there's even the slightest headwind. He tells the most transparent undignified lies. No one would believe that poo poo. A goldfish poop the size of an island? That's just loving stupid. He's not strong. He's scared. He'll gently caress thing up and try to lie about it. But then... He's there. He escaped from Chuu when everyone was fighting Arlong. He came up with a good story. A plausible one too. Just too much for little ol' Ussop. No one would doubt that. But it wasn't true. He was running. He couldn't live with that. Maybe his best move at the time was "Usopp Rubber Band," but he did his part. He couldn't let his friends down. Fighting Mr 4 and Mrs Merrychristmass with Chopper, he got hosed up. He's not some superhuman fighter. He's just a guy. But he's a guy who believes in his captain. And so he took it. He took all the abuse. Because he's there. Usopp fought God. He was not up for it, but he was loving there for it. Usopp fought motherfucking Luffy to a god drat draw when his beloved ship was on the line. He's not just going to drop poo poo when it doesn't work. He believed in the Merry Go, right up until the end. He's there for you. He doesn't know what the gently caress he's doing, but he knows what he's there for. He's there for his friends, the way no one else is. Because he doesn't know if he can do it. He's not some monster competent strong guy who can protect others. He's just a random shitter... but when it's down to the line he needs to be there for his friends. He's a support. He's a sniper. He loving shot Spandam when Spandam needed to be loving shot. Spoilers, motherfuckers, Sogeking? That hero who inspired everyone and saved the loving day? I'm gonna blow your mind here, but that was motherfucking Usopp. He was just wearing a mask, you idiots. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true! Usopp is us. Let's get real, if we were friends with Luffy, we wouldn't be cool. We'd be loving embarrassing. The poo poo he deals with is loving scary. You know who knows that? Usopp. But he is loving there nevertheless. I just watched Stampede, and Usopp is loving wrecked early on, shoots some impotent shots at the big bad... but you know what? He saves the loving day, because he's there for Luffy. He is the moral heart of the crew. There are a ton of really cool people on the crew, and they all have their awesome moments, but, let's be real, they're all awesome people. Except Usopp. He's just some loving guy. Maybe he's good at sniping, like, to a superhuman degree, but that doesn't help him feel like he's not just some loving random guy. A lovely lying undignified weakling random guy. But he is there for you. No one can match Usopp, because no one is as weak and cowardly as Usopp. The gap between justified confidence and confident behavior... that's motherfucking courage. And no one can match Usopp in that regard. I love that dumb ugly lovely coward of a man. I love him so much.
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May 5, 2020 07:49
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Ryaomon posted:Big ups to both Apoo and Kidd for showing off their powers 12 years ago and then finally coming back and doing the exact same thing with them. If that's the end of Apoo, I'll be unimpressed as well, but for now I trust that this is a familiar opening salvo in an actual fight that will happen. It's kind of too bad that it looks like it'll be Kidd's fight though. It would have been fun to see Luffy or Zoro (or Brook) figuring out his sound powers. Kidd probably knows a bit about how they work already.
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May 31, 2020 21:43
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Is there any chance Big Mom falls in this arc? Feels like she’s too linked to Elbaph to not be a focus there. One thing I can imagine having a satisfying narrative arc to it is beating Kaido with a truly team effort. Kidd, Law and Luffy all get recognized for their roles. Plus Marco or whoever else. There are a bunch of strong ambitious guys here. The headlines would be "Emperor taken down by a bunch of dudes!" Then if there's an Elbaf arc with Big Mom again as an antagonist, if Luffy manages to defeat her in single combat then there's another oh poo poo moment where the headline is, "Emperor taken down by Luffy!" The other option is Big Mom gets a redemption arc in Elbaf and is never defeated. So yeah, I'd guess she goes down here or one of the two above scenarios. But even if she "goes down" here, she can still play a role in an Elbaf story. She probably won't actually be killed. Maybe she'll retire and let Katakuri take over her empire, and one of her kids will take her to see Elbaf when the Strawhats visit or something. Big Mom is one of my favorite villains in this series mainly because I have no idea where here character is going. Villains are usually pretty obvious in Shounen- they're going to lurk in the background as a looming menace until they get beat, and sometimes end up as side characters afterwards. You can build a villain up forever, but when you focus on them directly, they're going to be dealt with one way or another. But not Big Mom. She had her arc and all Luffy managed was to barely get away alive. And that was an amazing triumph. But weirdly she's not the lurking main antagonist after that. She's become a side character without being beaten or even reasonably contested. She remains an insurmountable force in the world after being directly challenged for a whole arc. I want to see where that's going, because I have no idea! She's just a really interesting character on top of that. Her ideals and values are actually... pretty okay. She essentially wants everyone to get along and eat good food together. She's a villain because she's impulsive and petulant- often too emotional or greedy to consider how she's hurting others. And she has that emotional pattern because she's always been too monstrously strong for anyone to check her impulses or call her out. On some level she's a child who doesn't know any better because she never had to put up with anything she didn't want to. That's... not exactly evil. It's monstrous and abusive and she needs to be stopped. But it's different than most other villains and I think it makes for a really interesting character.
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Jun 20, 2020 08:33
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Yamato owns, and it's lovely and wholesome that everyone acknowledges him as Kaido's son. Kinda lovely that the introduction pannel didn't... Oda's dropped the ball on related issues in the past so this may all end poorly, but no reason to get preemptively disapointed. For now it owns. Gyges posted:Please let Robin fight. Orochi really deserves a visit from the Hana Hana Chiropractor. And you know, Robin already had a run-in with him and it would make sense for her to take out the intelligence guy. Though I guess he was also stated to be Raizo's ninja rival or something. On that note, I'm really wondering about the fights this arc. If any arc could justify a bunch of one-on-one major fights its this one. But not only do we have an insane number of enemies- we have an insane number of allies. Are the samurai all going to get proper fights? I feel like Kinemon has earned one at least. If Kyros of all loving people got to take out one of Doflamingo's top guys, Kinemon should be doing something important. And besides the samurai you have Kidd, Law, Marco, the minks... Who's going to be left over for the Strawhats to actually fight? Or rather, there are definitely enough people for everyone to fight someone interesting, but how many chapters are going to be dedicated to shounen duels? I'm not super into fights in general, but I'm very interested to see how this all pans out.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:Honestly all of the All Stars are a bit hard to place. As they all use swords, among other things. Luffy beating Kaido himself one on one is hard to imagine. A team fight would be really neat and would make more sense with the implied levels of strength so far. Perhaps a team fight where Kaido "beats" everyone, but is tired and weakened somehow, but then Luffy gets up to have a final exhausted one on one finale. I don't know if a scenario like that would "require" Luffy to have his own private fight first.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:27
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Parrotine posted:Or, again, maybe it's just a woman who wants to inherit the will of the man she admires the most. Seriously y'all are reading way too hard into this, it seems pretty cut and dry with Oda pulling a simple plot twist. Can't just dismiss the clear label because it doesn't fit your argument, she became a man in spirit, not made a physical transition here. He's not saying, "I became Oden." He's saying he became a man. You may think his reasons for transitioning are dumb, but the dude said he was a man. That's kind of the end of the story to anyone who's not an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 4, 2020 08:22
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RealFoxy posted:Seeing Yamoto unmasked has actually made me think about whether there's ever been any kind of expanded story about all the random people that just have horns in One Piece, like the other offshoot races or mutations Marco said "Huh, they're calling it Onigashima now. Interesting." when he first met up with the Samurai and Law. I bet the island itself has some history do with these people. Possibly it's the skull/corpse of an actual creature whose descendants have been getting smaller and smaller.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:01
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Dr Subterfuge posted:He's also got Izo nonchalantly hanging out with what I think I'm correctly interpreting as feminine hairdo and lipstick, which is cool. That's how it read to me at first at least. Typing this out has made me less sure. In general I agree that Oda's depiction of gender-nonconformity comes from a place of respect. All the Okama have been explicitly good people. The problems in the past have been equal parts insensitivity to some specific issues and Sanji. Just Sanji in general. He's a problem. Oda made a bunch of jokes about how ugly and unappealing old lady Kokoro was, for instance, but that's not because he doesn't like old ladies as people. Kokoro was clearly an awesome, admirable character. Oda's just so horny that he can't help but bring everything back around to how horny things makes him, and in the case of Sanji and the Okama... it resulted in something incredibly gross.
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Jul 5, 2020 00:50
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Oda himself might undercut it, but "I chose to be a man" is unambiguous.
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Jul 5, 2020 19:33
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Siegkrow posted:Maybe we should wait 2 weeks and get a proper answer.
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Jul 5, 2020 21:25
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Official chapter's out, so we don't need spoilers, right?QuasiQuack posted:I think you would all do well in taking a step back from this and maybe not immediately jumping to the conclusion that Oda, a guy who has depicted LGBT people quite problematically in the past, is now suddenly some champion of trans rights. If only to spare yourselves the disappointment later. Yamato said he was a man. Period. Other characters have even called him Kaido's son. A trans man is someone who was assigned female at birth and identifies as a man. Oda has put a trans man in his comic, unambiguously. Oda might be thinking of other things, or take this character down other paths eventually, but right now there is nothing unclear about the situation. Parrotine posted:Why do people do this? Posters were stating that she was a biologically born a woman and that was it, then suddenly there's a flood of others who started projecting the trans argument hard and are demonizing others once they were proven wrong. Yes she lives as a man and refers to herself as a 'he', which is perfectly fine and dandy, but the only thing we were pointing out was that she was, at this time, a biological woman. Stop being salty about doubling down on the wrong horse here, show some class. If you were just saying he was a "biological woman" ("assigned female at birth" is more respectful) no one would be arguing with you. The terms you used to express that (and the pronouns you continue to use) are considered disrespectful so people got touchy. If you don't know the respectful terms, that's fine. No one can fault you for just not having known these things. But not everyone's going to be patient explaining the situation, especially since jerks tend to double down on the disrespect when they get defensive.
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Jul 6, 2020 01:24
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I never really got what was cool about Oden. I've never really failed to get a One Piece character before so it's weird and sad for me. I want to think Oden is awesome too. Someone explain why they feel Oden is awesome please.
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Jul 9, 2020 02:19
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What Jinbe gets out of Fisher Tiger's flashback is that he's still around. He has to deal with the weight of that story. His seriousness, dedication, and nearly comical propensity for self-sacrifice are all informed by the fact that he was there for Fisher Tiger's story. Jinbei is good and has the potential to be even better going forward. But, uh, I kind of get the feeling behind, "Oden was a waste of time." Last Celebration posted:Not gonna lie, the end of Fisher’s flashback where he refuses that transfusion because of how much he hates humans, despite how hard he genuinely tried, hits really hard. Noland is the other kind of historical flashback star, and he's also incredible. There's a lot going on in his relationship with Kalgara- respecting people who see things differently and staying true to his own beliefs was hard. Misunderstandings nearly tore his relationship apart, but his strength of character got through eventually and it was beautiful and stuff. In that context Oden was just... cool? His great symbolic acts of self-denial were just him believing that some lying assholes weren't lying, and then doing what he could to let his friends get away when it was clear the jig was up. It's nice that he was curious about the world, knew and respected Roger and Whitebeard, was strong, and wanted to protect his friends. But I don't really get it. Those are all just synonyms for "he was good," and not something that shows his struggle, how he tried to be good. If anything the sacrifice of his honor kind of undercut the potential for that sort of feeling- he didn't seem to care at all that he was being humiliated. He was more like, "Oh, I have to humiliate myself to make everything better? Cool, I don't care about my reputation at all so this is easy stuff." And like, it's both not a challenge for him, and also makes him look actually foolish because the guys who made the deal were just lying. Maybe his desire to open the country in the first place is something that has more emotional weight in a Japanese context? I get all closed/open, Tokugawa/Meiji, Deijima Island/Black Ships kinds of deals on a historical level, but maybe it's more of an emotional issue than just that. Like, this is where I'm coming from. I don't want to be mistaken- I'm not asking in bad faith for people to say what's good about Oden so I can tear him down. I really want to know what about his character is "one of the best" Oda has made, and I'm just explaining why he didn't land for me immediately in the hopes someone can help me with that. I guess the short version is: I can see that he did good things, but he also never really seemed to have to try at all, so him just being effortlessly good never got my blood pumping, if that makes sense. If I was to make an effort to get what was cool about him... I suppose part of his story is how people saw him- he was just a guy with these traits and didn't think they were special- but other people slowly saw the value in his particular quirks? If he's just kind of a static unorthodox guy, his being bamboozled by Orochi's deal at the end is kind of more a tragedy because he's continuing to just do his own thing in a setting where it is, for once, not an advantage at all, and that's more straight up tragic than self-sacrificially noble? Is that something along the right track of why he's so appealing? This arc really seems to hinge on the idea that Oden was really special, and I'd rather be in on that than just kind of  like I am now.
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Jul 9, 2020 07:51
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So it's not like people never die (anymore). You're not going to be sitting there going, "that ain't gonna stick," for every tragic death. Unless you have a lot of trouble engaging with these things in a non-meta way. Pell is a situation where the manga back then wasn't that grim. The idea of Vivi going back and getting back into her life in Alabasta but with that gaping hole in it of a trusted friend being gone- that's too sad. I'd rather more fully feel a happy ending than make sure a death sticks. I felt sad when Pell died, and I felt relieved when everyone was happy at the end of the arc. That's good. Once it becomes a pattern, that's bad and undercuts the feeling of future events as they happen, but honestly people do die now, and hasn't lacked for impact. I never doubted Ace was dead, and I've never doubted Pedro was dead. So it's okay to bring Pound back, in my mind, especially as his story had a very important wonderful emotional beat left in it: reuniting with his daughters. That's a lovely scenario that I'm very glad is happening. Okay, all this talk of undermining dramatic tension is valid, but I can't think of Pound and his daughters reuniting and think "I wish this wasn't happening" because it's just so sweet and good.
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Jul 13, 2020 01:29
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What a terrible translation! Chapter was good though! The "controversy" is a total non-issue. Who cares if he's dead? He's been put in his place and gotten his comeuppance for selling out the country to Kaido. Now, will he use his devil fruit power to slither back to life and get a cathartic fight against one of the many people who have a problem with him? Sure, why not, that'd be cool. But it doesn't matter. He's dead. Because Kaido wanted him dead. If his body is still somehow alive, there's no life it can live after Kaido has made that gesture. His authority was based on his alliance, and that's over now. Even if he's alive he has absolutely nothing. Whether his death is symbolic or literal, it's got the same world-changing finality to it. If it turns out he's up for a fight against the samurai or something that's fine. It won't undercut the "holy poo poo, Kaido killed Orochi" moment here one bit. As for the rest of the chapter: Kiku is the best samurai. Yamato is totally welcome on the crew as far as I'm concerned. To heck with that "allied crew" stuff. Oden sailed with Whitebeard and Roger. Let Yamato sail with Luffy. There's something about the scale of the New Onigashima plan that's making me wonder in the back of my head- what if Kaido wins and actually upsets the balance of the world, waging a global war from his insurmountable pirate fortress? They've hinted at the consequences of the ancient weapons falling into the wrong hands, what if the story after this arc is dealing with the consequences of that actually happening? It's not an outcome I'd bet on- it still seems very unlikely the Strawhats would end an arc by fleeing again- but there's just enough drama and interesting consequences that for the first time it seems like a possibility. Maybe Kaido really is an insurmountable obstacle at this time.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:26
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i am tim! posted:Alright, one interesting thing that I have taken away from rereading the new scanlation is that Kaido says “It doesn’t matter whether Kozuki or Kurozumi rules!” which makes me think that he still wants a local ruler. I reckon he thinks that the factories will be easier to run with a puppet king that has a legitimate pedigree, and has decided that Momo would be a lot easier to control than Orochi. It would explain why he wanted the boy brought back alive; it wasn’t about seeing if he had grown up to be like his badass dad, it was about getting ahold of a scared child he could immediately replace the slimy snake jerk with. But that line of thinking does bring up a very dumb/weird thought: Kaido might respect his son's gender identity, but the purpose of a dynastic ruler is to produce children. If Yamato is to be Shogun... I wonder if Kaido is going to set his son up with a consort with which he can produce children at some point. Children of dynastic importance not being able to chose their own spouses is already a timeless theme. It gets a bit more interesting/troubling when we're acknowledging that they can chose their own gender identity.
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Jul 19, 2020 01:37
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Man, has anyone considered how cool and insane it is that there's a talking skeleton on the crew? I don't think that gets enough attention. It's pretty crazy.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:55
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There was a translator's note in the version that got taken down that Luffy called Yamato, "Yama o" in the same way that he calls Law "Tora o," and the o means man or guy. "Tora o" is usually translated as Tra-guy, so I hope they go with Yama-guy or something like that. I just think it's nice and wholesome that Luffy's disrespectful nickname is explicitly masculine for Yamato.mabels big day posted:OK but the cover story page this week? THat's the funniest thing i've seen and 100% makes Pound not dying worth it
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Aug 1, 2020 03:01
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Meme Emulator posted:Wait really? I thought he just dropped the T, like that guy with the bone disease that worked at the planetarium in South Park.  That's ya-ma, in katakana, and then the kanji for the male gender, pronounced "o". He is just saying Yama-o, and dropping the "t", but the "o" explicitly means "man" based on how it's spelled. (Again, he does the same thing with Law, calling him to-ra-o, and that's usually translated as Trafy or Tra-guy.) Translating Yama-o as... just Yamao is fine because the joke makes sense as Luffy just mispronouncing it slightly. But he's actually giving Yamato a nickname, and an explicitly masculine one at that. Eiba fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 3, 2020 |
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Aug 3, 2020 02:25
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Remalle posted:Yamabro
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Aug 3, 2020 02:30
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I wouldn't imagine any new players to show up to the party at this point- even Big Mom's family besides Perospero probably won't show up on Onigashima until things are more or less done. However! What's going on here is huge, and I imagine the government is very much into addressing this situation as harshly as they can. I wouldn't be surprised if, after the victory party when the Strawhats are ready to leave their friends behind and start their next adventure, a non-trivial Navy presence will be in their way. As a side note... Marines vs Navy. What are peoples thoughts? I have thought of them as "Marines" for like well over a decade... but I believe the word they're actually saying is the word for "navy," not the Japanese word for marines. I think it's best to pretend like the giant "Marine" painted on everything is basically just another language and call them the Navy, because that's what they are, but that feels so drat weird after so long.
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Aug 4, 2020 00:49
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RatHat posted:I wouldn't have minded the birdcage if Zoro and Fujitora weren't there. It was just profoundly stupid that even they couldn't break it. You'd think a string power would be weak to strong swordsmen. Zoro pushing on a string with sparks flying from his swords was a bad visual. If Doflamingo can coat an entire island in these strings, why doesn't he make invincible armor clothes out of them? Or he could have implied better that this had all been set up. Using his powers he meticulously wrapped the kingdom in secret for years and years, so it's not just a last minute desperation attempt by one man that's stopping literally every strong person on that island easily, but something that represents a whole lot of effort on Doflamingo's part. At the time I think I was inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt and just roll with the story, but in retrospect... yeah. It could have been done better. Like, I think most people here would rather just not have Birdcage at all- the fight would have been fine without it- but if you want to do something like Birdcage, it could have been better thought through. And probably should have been, given its unprecedented scale.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:30
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No Wave posted:Luffy's powers have never extended beyond his own body and he doesn't do anything these days a normal person can't one way or another (outside of eating a lot). Like being a rubberman hasn't really been relevant for the past five hundred chapters. Gear 3rd is the most preposterous ofc but it's generally just a fun visual for hitting someone hard. Because if Luffy is using haki to turn bombs into rubber, that's kind of significant. But I honestly forget if we saw other people doing the same thing or not, or what we were told when it first happened.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:17
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naginalJJ posted:Why I believe you're looking for https://onepace.net [one day later] Fishman island sucks. Christ. Like, the flashback is good, and it's kind of funny that the Strawhats do a coup by accident as the result of a misunderstanding, but literally everything else is dumb and makes no sense and is bad. Everything. Two really petty dumb things: 1) Hody makes everyone walk on fumi-e of queen Otohime. Disrespecting her memory by walking on her image, right? Nearly half the population doesn't have feet. Are the merfolk showing enough disrespect by floating over the picture? 2) Van der Decken. First, literally everything about his character is terrible. But accepting him on his own terms- he's introduced as wanting to marry Shirahoshi because he's a creep. But it turns out that he's actually one of the only ones who recognizes Shirahoshi is a weapon, and wants to harness her power to fulfill his family dream of... accruing riches... by marrying her. Okay. A terrible mix of boring and creepy, but okay. Technically makes sense. But then when Shirahoshi says he's "not her type," he wants to kill her because of his heartache is too painful or some poo poo. But like... his desire to actually marry her has already been established as a sham. What the gently caress is he talking about. Is he trying to make sure her power doesn't fall into anyone else's hands? It's never explained. He says he's happy to destroy Fishman island with the big boat... because he's comically sad about an obvious rejection. Van der Decken and Hody are the villains, but one is just... literally dumb, and the other, Hody, the story goes out of its way to disconnect from the emotional heart of the story. Like even before the anime apparently messed it up, the interesting principle he represents is generational hatred- someone who hates without having experienced the cycle of violence first hand. But like, even if that was pulled off perfectly it's real bad because fishmen are still treated terribly, and Hody justifiably knows his history, even if he didn't personally interact with humans. It's just an incoherent message no matter how you parse it, so Hody just goes crazy and is a hyper-rear end in a top hat for no reason to clarify the morality of the situation. And everyone who follows him is totally on board with that, which means none of them can have coherent motivations either. I think at the time I gave it the benefit of the doubt, and looking back I mainly remembered the amazing flashback. I have actaully reread it recently, but I guess I just skimmed all of Hody's dialog. And all of Hody's underling's dialog. Having it all drone on and on and on in anime form really emphasizes just how much of that arc was a loving waste of time. And I haven't even talked about Sanji. And I won't. Though I will say, I did notice that his disgusting bigotry towards okama is clearly shown as a personal hangup. Ussop is confused and thinks Sanji is being rude when he refuses to thank the okama who saved his life with a blood transfusion. Okama are just another kind of people to most people. Sanji's the only one who's disgusting. But christ is he gross.
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Aug 9, 2020 22:54
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Asuron posted:Hey, Zeo was cool But when the giant ship Noah was falling towards the island (again), looking like it'd kill everyone, even Hody's followers, Zeo gave a speech about how they'd be striking a blow against humans by dying. Somehow. Even though it was Hody's fault they would die. It was dumb as heck, and the only good part was he gave the speech in front of Brook who was like, "that's not how dying works, you idiot!" Like, all the ideas were nonsense. Van der Decken's gimick of "I want to marry/kill Shirahoshi because she can control sea kings which will bring me profit somehow" is the most coherent villain in the arc. Which is weird because the ideas in the flashback were engaging, even when they were a bit sloppy. Oda could comment on these issues, he just deliberately had Hody be about something else that made no sense. Probably because it's hard to have a hatable villain who's all about racial justice, so they made him like... just an insane angry man who killed "weak" merfolk- physically weak- trying in vain to save their homes because, he says, their weakness was the reason humans looked down on fishpeople. Because they weren't strong enough. Physically. When like, "fishmen are stronger than humans, so humans fear them," is a basic part of the racism this whole time. Hody's ideology is deliberate nonsense to cover for his real feelings which are... ??? He's just angry and mean or something? In his brief flashback it looked like he had a lovely life in the Fishman District, and they always called him "Hody from the Fishman District" and "Arlong from the Fishman District," and his whole 10,000 man army was from the Fishman district, and all the people who lived comfortable lives on the island proper looking down on the Fishman District people... but no one ever really called that out. There's no, "Hey, his hate is misguided because he lived a lovely life in the slums and hates his 'own' society that would do that to him, but has displaced that anger onto humans, and the 'soft' anti-conflcit fishmen who want to work so hard to reconcile with the humans without reconciling with their own underclasses first. Perhaps we helped create this monster by neglecting the poor members of our society." Like, that's an idea that was about half presented by the manga. I think the Fishman District concept was supposed to be important, 'cause they abolish it after Hody's beaten ("We can't keep an eye on it, let's employ these strong brutes in constructive manual labor" Neptune says), but the line is never really drawn between it being hosed up and Hody's hatred and violence. Instead it's emphasized that Hody has an "empty" pointless ideology. And so he does, and it doesn't make any sense with regards to the actions he takes. "If everyone dies, including my comrades, there will be more hate!" without stopping to wonder who will still be around to do the hating and what they'll accomplish with it. Most One Piece villains are pretty straightforward- they want power. Makes sense. Hard to mess that up. Dealing with the implications and fighting them is the interesting part. But Fishman Island was all about Hody's ideology, which is explicit nonsense. Actually fighting him was... pretty boring, to be honest. It's a mess, and watching the anime for this arc has made me resent it even more. We'll see whatever else the anime makes me resent, but having spent some time with it, really thinking it over, Fishman Island is definitely my least favorite arc in One Piece. Even other messes like Dressrossa, there's so much going on that there's something to appreciate. Imagine if Dressrossa was just explaining over and over again Kyros's whole deal about protecting his daughter and literally nothing else. That's Fishman Island. Hody's the only show in town and it's a bad show, even if Zeo is kinda funny.
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Aug 10, 2020 03:11
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Punk Hazard and Dressrosa had a ton of great character moments for the crew. I'm particularly struck by just how many ways different members of the crew were driving Punk Hazard. Nami and Chopper want to help the kids, Sanji wants to help the Samurai. Brook is left alone on the ship and is just so happy to see people again. When Zoro and Luffy both get taken out for dumb reasons, Zoro shouts a great focusing motivational thing at Luffy. Sanji befriends the G5 guys by accident 'cause he wanted to help Tashigi- the one and only good "Sanji does a dumb horny thing and there are consequences" plot point in the whole manga. All the Strawhats get to do their own thing, and we just get to spend some time with the crew. It's great. And then they run a lot and I get that that's not super interesting, but still. Lotta interesting motivations for all the running. Fishman Island did not have that. None of the crew mattered or did anything with a couple exceptions: Sanji was disruptively horny. Nami had to deal with the emotions of meeting the man who was responsible for Arlong, but was also Luffy's friend, and wrestled with some really difficult feelings. Those were like the two character bits, and while one of them was fantastic the other... was basically the worst gag in the whole manga. Not even Luffy did anything. He fell asleep during the backstory and tried to stop Hody from making a mess of things, because what else was he going to do. It was so accidental and uninvolved. The only other arc that felt that way was Skypia, where the Strawhats are just wandering around as things happen, but that was awesome because you had all this passion about land and rights and good poo poo like that, and the Strawhats just had their own pirate-y motivation of finding treasure. It was a really fun dynamic. Fishman Island was like if the Strawhats were just kind of vacationing in Skypia and didn't do anything until Enel was going to destroy the town for his own reasons 2/3rds of the way through the arc. There's just so little going on outside of the flashback in Fishman Island. I guess the rejection of the concept of "hero" because he didn't want to share the meat was a good/funny development, especially since it was independently articulated by Zoro in the exact same way. I am somewhat sorry for starting the "actually, parts of One Piece are bad" discussion this time. I get that negativity is a bummer, and this is such a positive good manga. It's just... everything I actually like about this manga feels like its absent from Fishman Island and explaining how I felt and why I felt that way helped deal with that renewed disappointment when I got around to seeing it in anime form. Some people pointed out that Hody had some interesting parallels to real life kinds of people and I've been thinking about those and they're kind of neat, so that's a positive thing that came from this. Also, I didn't give my island a One Piece name in Animal Crossing, but my town tune is Bink's Sake and it's great.
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Aug 13, 2020 06:41
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I've been going through post-timeskip One Pace since someone linked it a while back. I enjoy hearing the characters and seeing everything in color. But interesting animation is actually pretty rare... I wonder if someone's just put the anime voices over the colorized manga. That said, I'm enjoying spending more time with it. When I reread the manga I do it really quickly, but the anime forces you to dwell on things as they happen more. Sometimes that's good, there have been emotional speeches that have a lot more impact in the anime, hearing it all said slowly. Sometimes it's real bad, as in... every bit of dialog in Fishman Island outside of the flashback. Punk Hazzard and early Dressrossa are great though.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:15
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Bisse posted:Fights dont seem to happen based on interesting matchups anymore. loving Brook’s most recent fight that I can recall was a 1on1 with Big Mom. Katakuri was a pretty awkward match for Luffy which just made it more interesting. The only recent good matchup example I can think of is Zoro vs Killer. Other than that its been just complete mayhem matchups wise which, to be honest, is a lot more interesting. Whole Cake island and Zou didn't really have smaller fights. We have yet to get to the fights in Wano. All that is just to say, it's not that fights aren't cool/appropriate anymore... they just don't happen at all anymore. But I have the sneaking suspicion that they will happen again in the very near future. Last Celebration posted:I’m sorry, I should have clarified. Early on in Dressrossa Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Kinemon, and Franky were on a mission and walked into a bar. Antics ensued and everyone got distracted by different things. Franky is the one who said, in so many words, "I guess I have to take charge here if we're going to get anything done." Not cool collected Sanji, but Franky. Relatedly, I had forgotten that it was Franky who forced the conflict with Doflamingo. The plan was to mess with him and run away, and that plan was still viable when Franky, in sympathy with the dwarfs, said he couldn't leave it at that. Straight up saying it didn't matter what Luffy thought, he was going to go ahead regardless. Of course Luffy told him to do it up, but it was a really great moment for Franky. His over the top tears for every sad story aren't just for show. He's one of the most compassionate Strawhats, in addition to being really proactive. Basically, whatever was actually cool about Sanji- going off and doing what needed to be doing, being honorable and chivalrous- is even better about Franky. When I was much younger reading this, I thought Sanji was cool as heck. Both the aesthetics and his actions. Now that I'm older I can see that Franky is actually the most admirable Strawhat. There are some others I like better for their interesting character, but that big goofy cyborg is just such a good guy. Also, I'm blitzing through the One Pace anime still and I have to say... the first half of Dressrossa owns. All the fighters in the coliseum, the dwarfs, Franky, Fujitora, Ussop vs Sugar and the ensuing chaos, and Doflamingo's ire- it's all so good. Even Rebecca and Kyros's story has a lot more weight than I remember it having. Maybe because I always kind of skimmed it in the manga, but I was forced to stay there with that crying girl in the flashback as the tin soldier brings her mother's body out of the flowers, and that was sad as heck, as was their subsequent miserable but loving life together. I haven't watched the second half yet, and I remember having issues with it, but this might just be one of those things where the ending leaves a bigger impression in your memory. Most of Dressrossa so far has been way better than I remembered it.
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Aug 14, 2020 23:39
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Nuebot posted:I used to think Sanji was mostly cool. His introduction still had his lame "romantic" poo poo, but the bigger focus was him caring about not wasting food and clowning on idiots in authority even at his own expense which was fun. I can't pinpoint the exact arc the change happened, because I remember him being a complete goof in both skypeia and alabasta, but really quickly he just kind of stopped being the cool guy he was and just became the weird perverted creep that set the framework for whatever he is now. Occasionally moments would shine through during fights and stuff where he'd almost seem like the character he was in that first arc, but he's basically 100% different now and I don't like the character anymore because nothing about him is interesting, cool or fun. Aside from token background comments about how good of a chef he is, most of his food stuff has been dropped entirely for nose bleeds and comical heart eyes. I don't think he's even mentioned looking for the All Blue or whatever, or why he wants it, in forever either. Even Chopper has been more on point with who they are and were as a character than he has. Before then it was, as often as not, it was him being goofy, but kind towards a woman. It was pretty creepy if you thought about it, but essentially him just being kind and attentive. Thriller Bark sets up a vile villain who abuses his power to sexually assault women. This understandably infuriates Sanji. How dare he use his power to take advantage of women. But the twist is that he's really mad because he's jealous. It's a joke that completely ruins his character. He doesn't wish he could protect women against sexual assault, he wishes he had that opportunity himself. How loving funny. The gag gets worse and more mean spirited from there on, but that's the moment where you have to realize that every time he's got hearts in his eyes going forward, he doesn't actually give a poo poo about women, he's just got a boner and he's an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 15, 2020 01:21
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Len posted:Should I read or watch One Piece? I've got a Shonen Jump sub right now to read Yugioh but there are so many chapters of this it's daunting I get the length being intimidating, but the length is really one of it's assets. If you enjoy it there's a lot ahead for you to enjoy, because the quality never lets up. There are dips here and there, but if you enjoy it by chapter 100, you're going to be enjoying it to chapter 1000. Some manga peter out and feel like they were a waste of time in retrospect. One Piece does not. Reading it is what you'll have to do eventually 'cause the anime really does nosedive eventually, but if you want to watch some of it you'll get to hear all the characters voices, and they're pretty good voices.
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Aug 15, 2020 17:17
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I mean, that's really the tragedy of Sanji isn't it. He would be amazing if it weren't for... his thing. Like, a cool character with an embarrassing gimmick is a fine idea: Zoro has an impossibly bad sense of direction that has gotten more and more absurd. It's fun. If Sanji did everything he did, and was occasionally incredibly undignified... he would be the coolest. His status as the weakest of the monster trio- someone who can consider himself a rival of Zoro, but like, he's the god drat cook- is really compelling. His Mr. Prince tenancies are really cool. He just disappears and goes off to do what needs to be done. Sanji being absent for the Galley La stuff on Water Seven and then showing up at the protagonist of the Sea Train mini arc was so drat cool. He figured he'd do more good leaving the main stuff to others, and using his power where no one else was. I love that. Oda clearly thinks Sanji's treatment of women is goofy and innocent. If I agreed, I'd really like Sanji. I... don't agree. It's a shame.
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Aug 16, 2020 23:17
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This whole derail stemmed from the op saying "Oda doesn't care about this in the same way you do," when they meant "Oda doesn't care about this in the same way we do." By explicitly excluding themselves from the value, while commenting on Oda's value and the value of the person they were responding to, they created the strong impression that they had a neutral feeling on the subject. That's why they got poo poo. As it turns out, they don't actually have a neutral feeling on the subject, Sanji being a perv is actually bad and we all understand that, the OP was just being really neutral in a (imo) misleading way. It's fine. The fact that they got poo poo is kind of fine, and what they said turns out to be fine. Don't worry about it. Snazzy Frocks posted:Can someone link these people to a d&d thread so we can get back to talking about who's gonna beat up who Asuron posted:This is a pretty interesting point. I can’t remember the last time i saw a depiction of an openly fay or trans person without them being treated like a joke. I think you hit it on the head, Oda’s representation of them is full of stereotypes and stuff that has aged poorly, but he’s actually trying to show them in a really positive light.
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Aug 20, 2020 10:02
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That chapter was amazing. Franky and Brook are the best. I can't wait to find out what they actually said though... the three different versions had three different quips. I kind of like the really awkward first translation best: "Oops, did I drive over something? Ah whatever. It's not like I drove over a flower or something." Amazing. With regards to Yamato this chapter: I can see where the concern is coming from. It's silly that he considers himself Momonosuke's father. It's presented as a joke 'cause it's so absurd. He's not really Momonoskue's father, he's never met the kid. So, uh, is it also part of the joke that he's got a feminine appearance and obviously is not really a man? I don't think so, considering both Kaido and Luffy have accepted he's a man, but like... he's a trans man with a gimmick of being delusional about his identity. So far just his identity as Oden, but that could go bad places. That said, it hasn't explicitly gone bad places yet, so I'd be careful about how to express concern and disappointment. If by the end of this Oda continues to nail it, and Yamato ends up being a really positive depiction of a trans person, then the only negativity would come from the people jumping to uncharitable conclusions. If people keep going, "lol, this is gonna be terrible," then it's gonna drag things down for everyone discussing it, even if it turns out to not be terrible in the manga itself. Or something like that. I dunno. I think Yamato is really cool so far, and while I'm totally aware of Oda's ability to drop the ball on this, I mainly just want to appreciate how cool Yamato is for now.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:00
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Is it just me, or is the official translation almost as awkward as the fan translations this week? Chapter still owned, but there were a few bits I had to read multiple times to make sense of the wording, and Franky's quip at the end is kind of weak. On a different subject, I'm watching Whole Cake Island in the One Pace anime, and holy poo poo it's good. There's a whole bunch of amazing moments that were great in the manga, but it's just a whole other thing to see animated. Carrot going Sulong animated, flying over the ocean with all her flowing hair, was amazing. Big Mom rampaging on the Sunny, sticking her hands through a door and tearing it up looking for the wedding cake was terrifying. And there are so many random musical numbers, it's amazing. But I'm mainly bringing it up because I had forgotten that this chapter is not the first time Brook cut Zeus in half. I had forgotten that, while Nami was the one who bullied Zeus into submission, it was actually Brook who physically captured him and handed him over to Nami. I do hope Zeus remains with Nami after this. It's a really hilarious power up for her, and I don't recall that she's done all that much with him so far. I just want her to pull him out in a future arc, like Elbaf or something, and have people recognize it as Big Mom's ability and freak out.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:58
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Jose posted:I don't see big mum being fully defeated just because I think that would be the end of Zeus and I think he'll become a permanent Nami power up but I also don't see her not being beaten. At this point though I think luffy will beat kaidou solo, zoro king and sanji queen. I could see maybe everyone else + Marco beating big mum but I think perospero arriving will convince her to stand down or something All that is to say, if someone needs to get beat down, it's Kaido. If Big Mom leaves this arc not getting beat up, I don't feel like that's a huge problem. That said, right now she is a huge problem. Someone mentioned Luffy getting trapped in a snake earlier, and I have to say, if you need an excuse to keep Luffy from fighting the arc antagonist right away, being harassed by Big Mom is a pretty good one. Better than the snake at least. Professorjuggalo posted:I want one of the other supernovas to show some ambition and go for a emperor seat in the chaos after mom/kaido go down, especially with how this arc has been laying on the theme of the new passing the old and change Am I forgetting someone or is he also the only supernova who hasn't done anything yet? Bonney didn't do much, but she did sneak into the Tenryubito city and reveal a relationship with Kuma.
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Aug 24, 2020 23:19
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Going over Dressrossa again, I was struck by the narrator saying of the Strawhat fleet, "These seven men would be at the center of an incident that would shake the world, but that's a story for another time." What if that incident takes place on Elbaf? Hajrudin wants to be king of the giants, right? The last time the giants were unified and active they were a global threat. What if the World Government takes it seriously when someone like Luffy, who can stand toe-to-toe with the Emperors (after the Wano arc), is potentially drawing Elbaf under his influence. I always kind of assumed the world-shaking incident was going to be the climax of the whole manga, like the Whitebeard War was the climax of the first half, but just from what we know Elbaf has the potential to really shake things up.
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Aug 27, 2020 21:48
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