Libra posted:

Remember when Zoro was getting encased in wax and his plan was to slice through his own legs and fling the rest of himself swords-first at Mr 3?
And when it looked like he might end up totally immobilized he switched to a cooler pose, just in case.

That was pretty good.

Scratchman Apoo posted:

Eiba posted:

What Jinbe gets out of Fisher Tiger's flashback is that he's still around. He has to deal with the weight of that story. His seriousness, dedication, and nearly comical propensity for self-sacrifice are all informed by the fact that he was there for Fisher Tiger's story. Jinbei is good and has the potential to be even better going forward.

But, uh, I kind of get the feeling behind, "Oden was a waste of time."

This really gets me going. I love this. Fisher Tiger had a hard time, and was defined by internal conflict. What he felt (hatred) and what he knew was right (reconciliation) were incomparable and in the end, while he did everything he could to do what was right and no one could fault him for that, what he felt ended up killing him. I'm tearing up just thinking about it.

Noland is the other kind of historical flashback star, and he's also incredible. There's a lot going on in his relationship with Kalgara- respecting people who see things differently and staying true to his own beliefs was hard. Misunderstandings nearly tore his relationship apart, but his strength of character got through eventually and it was beautiful and stuff.

In that context Oden was just... cool? His great symbolic acts of self-denial were just him believing that some lying assholes weren't lying, and then doing what he could to let his friends get away when it was clear the jig was up.

It's nice that he was curious about the world, knew and respected Roger and Whitebeard, was strong, and wanted to protect his friends. But I don't really get it. Those are all just synonyms for "he was good," and not something that shows his struggle, how he tried to be good. If anything the sacrifice of his honor kind of undercut the potential for that sort of feeling- he didn't seem to care at all that he was being humiliated. He was more like, "Oh, I have to humiliate myself to make everything better? Cool, I don't care about my reputation at all so this is easy stuff." And like, it's both not a challenge for him, and also makes him look actually foolish because the guys who made the deal were just lying.

Maybe his desire to open the country in the first place is something that has more emotional weight in a Japanese context? I get all closed/open, Tokugawa/Meiji, Deijima Island/Black Ships kinds of deals on a historical level, but maybe it's more of an emotional issue than just that.


Like, this is where I'm coming from. I don't want to be mistaken- I'm not asking in bad faith for people to say what's good about Oden so I can tear him down. I really want to know what about his character is "one of the best" Oda has made, and I'm just explaining why he didn't land for me immediately in the hopes someone can help me with that.

I guess the short version is: I can see that he did good things, but he also never really seemed to have to try at all, so him just being effortlessly good never got my blood pumping, if that makes sense.

If I was to make an effort to get what was cool about him... I suppose part of his story is how people saw him- he was just a guy with these traits and didn't think they were special- but other people slowly saw the value in his particular quirks? If he's just kind of a static unorthodox guy, his being bamboozled by Orochi's deal at the end is kind of more a tragedy because he's continuing to just do his own thing in a setting where it is, for once, not an advantage at all, and that's more straight up tragic than self-sacrificially noble? Is that something along the right track of why he's so appealing?

This arc really seems to hinge on the idea that Oden was really special, and I'd rather be in on that than just kind of like I am now.

i am tim! posted:

But the zoan jailers in Impel Down were described as being awoken. Luffy was able to deck the cow one with a wax pillar bullet.

Libra posted:

It's actually very correct and accurate, the same thing happens to my robot arm when I turn into a dinosaur.

TheLoneStar posted:

Frankly, I'm happy. Wano really feels like it drags in some places. I'm ready to just get to the main action already.

I really hope it turns out he's alive. Kanjuro just getting offed off-panel given his relevance would be so anti-climactic. A flashback should occur, at least, if he really is dead.

TheLoneStar posted:

Don't Zoans in general have a bit of a healing factor?

RealFoxy posted:

The closest thing to sex that's ever been addressed outside of people just having children was Luffy's mushroom on Amazon Lilly played as a gag so I wouldn't think too much about this stuff, this ain't Berserk

Elfgames posted:

we are definitely going to get a rescue/war arc where luffy comes rocking in as the loving king of the pirates to take down the gov. if not oda's a hack

XkyRauh posted:

But he suffers the damage for everything that's pulled in, right? At least, that's what he told Ace during their battle...

HerraS posted:

my friend may I introduce you to the "Blackbeard has two identical brothers who live inside him in a black hole" theory

Rohan Kishibe posted:

Oda pulled the No One Dies in One Piece thing for so long that even after Ace and Whitebeard and Monet and Pedro and etc, I'm genuinely in suspense over whether Kiku bought it, what a crazy place to be in One Piece.

Rohan Kishibe posted:

I really like that in Whole Cake Island, Big Mom has this personal connection and enmity with, I think, every single member of the Strawhats. A lot of the time, the villain only ever really talks to or even knows one or two of the crew.

I also just made the connection that maybe the reason Zeus is such a slave to his appetite has something to do with literally being made of Big Mom's soul.

Kild posted:

so you just dont want kidd to be here then huh

Larryb posted:

Luffy dies, Usopp becomes Pirate King.

Begemot posted:

It's these thin wispy ones, like in traditional illustrations of eastern dragons.

The Sanji stuff this chapter was totally fine, people are getting outraged over what they thought was happening last week. He got tricked trying to RESCUE SOMEONE not because he was horny, you idiots.

Ethiser posted:

I hope Momo holds the island up when it looks like it’s going to fall on the capital.