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The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Gin and Juche posted:

If you squeeze a round of and don't want to fire the follow-up do you just put it on safe and let go of the trigger?



On the Franklin, yes. No clue on the others. I'd never put one of these in a serious duty gun, but in that little suppressed 22, it's a hoot.

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Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




Yes this is how the FOSTECH works as well. You hold the trigger then move it to safe if its the ar-15 II version or you slide the triggle paddle on the sporting model.


Honestly they look really fun but yeah it doesn't seem super safe lol.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



I double tapped a skunk in the head with binary mode. Cause I tell you what, seeing that white stripe down a critter's back and realizing it's not a raccoon is a real pucker factor flip the selector all the way kind of moment.

Other than that I haven't used it other than for range giggles.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




The Rat posted:

I double tapped a skunk in the head with binary mode. Cause I tell you what, seeing that white stripe down a critter's back and realizing it's not a raccoon is a real pucker factor flip the selector all the way kind of moment.

Other than that I haven't used it other than for range giggles.

You say binary so I'm assuming its a Franklin? It seems like the FOSTECH are being called both echo and binary now on the web searches. I read many reviews and and videos it's all just anecdotal but I'm curious what you have and if it runs well?

Any issues with it?

I assume you would need a lower with the 3 point safety. If it only has OFF and SEMI like mine I would assume you would need to get the FOSTEC sport trigger because it removes the control for binary/echo to a flipper at the top of the trigger guard. If you have the trigger down you hold it down and flip the little gear thing and that disconnects and lets you reset to no cocked hammer.

Wendigee fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 10, 2021

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



I have the Franklin, yeah. It comes with its own safety selector, went in a standard lower no problem.

As far as issues, every once in a while in binary it'll have a weird dead trigger that is remedied by charging the gun again. In semi I haven't had any issues.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




The Rat posted:

I have the Franklin, yeah. It comes with its own safety selector, went in a standard lower no problem.

As far as issues, every once in a while in binary it'll have a weird dead trigger that is remedied by charging the gun again. In semi I haven't had any issues.

I've heard about this issue, and it is why the reviews I read said to go with a fostech instead. I guess it doesn't have the problem but it has a few more parts and is a bit harder to assemble, but nothing like a Ruger 22/45 mkIII which I can now do after watching videos and playing around with it.



question: my receiver is only marked safe and semi... there is no mark for burst or whatever.... was you're lower the same or did if have the auto selection also? I'm wondering if my receiver will allow a rotation to a third postion.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Unless if there's a stop on the exterior of the receiver, there's nothing that will prevent the safety that the Franklin comes with from rotating to the third position. What stops a regular safety from rotating is that it doesn't have the track cut into it to allow it to rotate that far.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




The Rat posted:

Unless if there's a stop on the exterior of the receiver, there's nothing that will prevent the safety that the Franklin comes with from rotating to the third position. What stops a regular safety from rotating is that it doesn't have the track cut into it to allow it to rotate that far.

thank makes sense, thank you for explaining Rat. I will go take a peak.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




my current selector has a ridge that won't let it go past 2 positions... so its safe and semi only on my receiver. unless i wanted to modify that the fostech sport much be the most dangerous and best option. I'll write a will to my nephew in case i blow myself up.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Your lower has a ridge?

Could just bust out the dremel on it.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




Post pictures before you start cutting anything.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



This is from a ways back but I"m getting caught up and it's something I've been reading a bit about recently:

Seamonster posted:

That's a good question and I'm not sure there is a term specifically for it but it seems to be correlating specifically with the second wave of smokeless powder rifles for whatever reason. Muzzleloaders and late black powder cartridge guns have "exposed" barrels. Early smokeless rifles like the Lebel, Mauser 88, Krag and Lee Metford as well but once the second round comes through we start seeing barrels covered with extra wood; Mauser 98, 1906 Springfield and your mentioned Lee Enfield...

The Gewehr 88 (not a mauser, btw) has the barrel completely covered by a barrel shroud that free-floats it. That metal bit you see on the outside is a hollow tube. The major benefits they were going for were accuracy and insensitivity to weather as far as dampness, barrel bedding, etc. as well as heat dispersion from rapid fire. Basically most (? not sure about the heat dispersion thing) of the benefits that people using FF tubes in ARs are going for today, only the 1880s version.


Rodenthar Drothman posted:

This is based on nothing but my own suppositions, but I always assumed it was because of the heat. These powders generated more heat, so they enclosed the barrels to guard hands. As for the actual stock, I think it’s because they thought supporting the barrel all the way forward would improve accuracy? And that was only recently dispelled.

They knew about pressure points on rifle stocks for a long time. I can't say when, exactly, but certainly before the first wave of smokeless rifles. It's one of the big reasons why if you look at sporting firearms going back to. . . gently caress, black powder rifles at least, you can see them having a lot less wood along the rifle stock than their military counterparts.

I know for a fact that at least as early as the Mauser m71 the stock and the way it interacted with the barrel bands was the first thing they looked at to try and deal with the disappointing accuracy (turns out it also had to do with the single locking lug, a problem that Mauser fixed for the Turkish m1887 - basically a slightly improved m71/84 - but not the German army's m71/84). Hence them focusing on the bedding of the barrel for the Gew 88 and going with the free-floated tube design. Miegs, the guy who designed that barrel shroud, was earlier a member of the commission that was trying to figure out why all the m71s and m71/84s had disappointing accuracy.

There's a major trade-off with rifle when it comes to attaching the metal to the wood: you want the barrel to be as free as possible, but you also want the whole thing to be durable and not prone to snapping off. I'd have to look into it, but I suspect that the move away from the basic flintlock/caplock pattern of a lock bedded into the wood next to a single piece barrel/breach system and over to the cartridge model of a receiver that the barrel screws into and which holds the bolt runway offered a lot more opportunities for deleting wood forward of the chamber. On a muzzle loader you need all that wood because it's what's holding the chamber/barrel on the gun. If you remove too much the barrel acts as a very long lever over a relatively small section of chamber that's locked into the stock, which is a recipe for breaking poo poo. Once you have a receiver holding the barrel that gives you a much larger area to put screws in, and much wider apart (tang and just under the chamber, traditionally) which is a lot more stable if you're cutting back on wood and banding up front.

Even so, a fully supported barrel is still going to be less prone to damage. Much more of a big deal on military guns than on hunting guns, and the military has different needs with regards to accuracy. This poo poo continues on today: I read recently (I think in the AR thread?) someone mentioning that the reason for that dumb m4 barrel profile was that the USMC wanted it stiffer so people didn't gently caress up their guns during rappelling and bayonet training.

You are right about the handguard aspect, though. It's less about the extra heat generated by the new powders, and more to do with the volume of fire that repeating arms allowed, especially as the designs get refined. Off the top of my head the typical ROF for a skilled Union soldier in the Civil War using a Springfield 1863 was 3 shots per minute, while a raw recruit with the Dryse needle gun (a paper cartridge Prussian breech loader) was expected to get six off. The m71 (a single shot black powder cartridge rifle) about doubled that, while the m71/84 (same gun with a tube magazine) raised that to about 26 per minute. Meanwhile Prussian tests on french Lebel rifles - using the first true smokeless powder - showed 43 rounds per minute. All of those numbers are under test conditions and just going for speed, so take all that with a grain of salt, but it gives a sense of how much the potential volume of fire is increasing in the latter half of the 19th century. I can tell you from personal experience that just putting 50 rounds through a military Mauser over a couple of relatively leisurely minutes bench firing will get the barrel hot enough to burn you if you carelessly touch it.

the tl;dr is basically that military and civilian weapons have different requirements and different emphases, and that in turn drives the design of the stock.

Rodenthar Drothman
May 14, 2013

I think I will continue
watching this twilight world
as long as time flows.

Neat! Thanks for the rundown - that all makes total sense, things that seem obvious only after they’re explained.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

Big same, thank you all for helping me understand it better.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

I ran a brass wire "snake" tool through a brand new revolver's cylinders and barrel to see how it worked. There was no grit to remove, just the original assembly lube. Was that bad, or could I have hurt the precision machining?

fatman1683
Jan 8, 2004
.

Happy Thread posted:

I ran a brass wire "snake" tool through a brand new revolver's cylinders and barrel to see how it worked. There was no grit to remove, just the original assembly lube. Was that bad, or could I have hurt the precision machining?

Brass is much softer than steel, and is often used in bore and chamber brushes. As long as you weren't doing anything silly like spinning the brush on a drill, you didn't damage anything.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Hooray! I sprayed on some CLP afterward and have some other oil they sold with it I'll put on soon. I think it's ready to use.

Should I be concerned that the trigger finish is very corroded after several months of disuse? Can't see if it continues inside the machinery. Fingerprint oil I guess, must not have come with as much lube protection on it there. Do I wet sand it smooth again?

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Mar 14, 2021

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Take a pic. Depends a lot on what “corroded” means. Fingerprint oil shouldn’t rust your trigger.

I’d probably try just cleaning it first.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Cyrano4747 posted:

Take a pic. Depends a lot on what “corroded” means. Fingerprint oil shouldn’t rust your trigger.

I’d probably try just cleaning it first.

My fingerprint oil has rusted stainless steel guns. Take that.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




infrared35 posted:

My fingerprint oil has rusted stainless steel guns. Take that.

Wash your drat hands, you heathen.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



infrared35 posted:

My fingerprint oil has rusted stainless steel guns. Take that.

Pretty sure you're also the person who's rusted carry pieces with rear end sweat, so I'm just gonna assume you're not following this advice:

Captain Log posted:

Wash your drat hands, you heathen.

after scratching.

(in all seriousness I have heard that some people have hosed, alien-like skin chemistry that can rust poo poo pretty quick. Most people aren't that way, though)

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




Clearly ir35 has too much salt in his diet and needs to cut back on drinking travelers' tears.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

I remember when I was a kid, my mom could only wear wind-up watches. The decent-quality electronic watches of the time (the very early 1980s) would have dead batteries within a week.

At some point, she took a gamble on one of the cheap digital watches at Wal-Mart. These were maybe $5, and something about their construction insulated the electronics from her antagonistic body chemistry. She'd have one of those for a year or two at a time, thankful she didn't have to wind her watch every day.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




I keep my hands meticulously clean and cannot stand having poo poo on them. I have to use a medicated hand cream for a pretty benign skin condition. Sitting with the poo poo on my hands for fifteen minutes is torture.

But I don't have to constantly wash them, because that will ruin your skin. I just avoid greasy poo poo and wear gloves when I'm doing projects or cooking.

As a kid, I could normally tell which friends had handled stuff in my house. Because it would have hand/finger prints.

Rodenthar Drothman
May 14, 2013

I think I will continue
watching this twilight world
as long as time flows.

Yes hi hello it is I, the fingerprint-haver.
I’m a fricken greaseball even when I don’t go into work, just make sure you have shop towels or clean microfiber cloths around when you’re handling stuff.
... cotton shirts also work.

It’s also possible that if you had recently eaten fruit last time you handled the gun and didn’t wash your hands, the juices could gently caress poo poo up. Especially stuff like citrus. That’ll rust stuff right up if it’s not a quality stainless.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Happy Thread posted:

Do I wet sand it smooth again?
Just so this doesn't get lost in skin pH chat, If you are asking if you should take sandpaper to a gun, do not take sandpaper to a gun.

I want to say "never take sandpaper to a gun ever" but there's probably some situations where someone skilled can get away with it.

ZarathustraFollower
Mar 14, 2009





Lipstick Apathy

stealie72 posted:

Just so this doesn't get lost in skin pH chat, If you are asking if you should take sandpaper to a gun, do not take sandpaper to a gun.

I want to say "never take sandpaper to a gun ever" but there's probably some situations where someone skilled can get away with it.

Honing & polishing internal parts or roughing up a sear to increase trigger pull for a competition are the main ones that come to mind. But that falls under "someone skilled".

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Somebody Awful posted:

Clearly ir35 has too much salt in his diet and needs to cut back on drinking travelers' tears.

It's the only life I've ever known.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



ZarathustraFollower posted:

Honing & polishing internal parts or roughing up a sear to increase trigger pull for a competition are the main ones that come to mind. But that falls under "someone skilled".

Also situations where you're looking at something that's just fuuuuuuucked with rust. But, again, "someone skilled."

edit: to be clear by "fuuuuuuuuuucked" I'm talking where you're getting scale off as a prelude to media blasting it for refinishing.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



Cyrano4747 posted:



(in all seriousness I have heard that some people have hosed, alien-like skin chemistry that can rust poo poo pretty quick. Most people aren't that way, though)

My jframe when I took it out and shot it for the first time with maybe 2 boxes of ammo had a rust splotch the shape of my finger on the trigger and only on the trigger a week later when I got it back out.

Weirdest thing because I had no issues on any other gun like that ever. I just make sure now to wipe it down every time with a little oil there.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



The quality of steel also comes into play. Quality stainless is much less prone to rust than raw, in the white, high carbon steel. Blueing is less prone to rust than raw steel, and non-oxidation coatings (phosphate coatings, plating with corrosion resistant metals, paint) are even less rust prone than oxidation based ones like blueing.

Could be that they cheaped out on the metal for the trigger.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004




Somebody Awful posted:

Post pictures before you start cutting anything.

looking into it closely, its possible that the selector itself is designed to not rotate past 90 degress. both of the silly switches come with a new selector i beleive.

I will get a video and pictures tomorrow if you will take a look!

pipebomb
May 12, 2001

Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?
It must be so boring.


What do y’all carry in your range bags insofar as tools? I’ve got a leatherman and picked up a set of these (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-25-key-Metric-Standard-SAE-Folding-Hex-Key-Set/999920984) for needing tighten/loosen any of the 500 things using different size/type screws.

Other than a quick clean kit, what else would you recommend in the tools area? (Not first aid related - I’ve got a nice trauma kit I keep in the car.)

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

I have a Leatherman MUT with the bit driver kit as my EDC but in my range bag I have an AR & AK front sight adjuster tools, a staple gun, batteries for my electronics, and a couple specific hex wrenches for my screw-in BFA's.

pipebomb
May 12, 2001

Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?
It must be so boring.


Batteries and staple gun - excellent additions for me. Thanks.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Not a tool per se but masking tape to cover up holes in paper targets. And when I run out of staples for my staple gun.

Also some permanent markers for writing on my targets.

pipebomb
May 12, 2001

Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?
It must be so boring.


Tape, not a bad idea. I keep a few sharpies around at all times, even off range. 👍

Rodenthar Drothman
May 14, 2013

I think I will continue
watching this twilight world
as long as time flows.

Me too. Sometimes daddy needs a little pick-me-up.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019



A thin brass rod is essential for me. Cases get stuck, and on a break action you can't just keep racking the bolt and hope it clears.

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Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006


I keep a set of punches in mine since sometimes i need to pop the trigger group out of a shotgun and a long screwdriver to taking stocks off but I’m a weirdo clay shooter. Also sharpies, various lubricants and a cheap cleaning kit that lives in my trunk.

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