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californiasushi
Jun 6, 2004


the last pretty big mhs reliability test was reported on last year. it was a lot acceptance test where 3 m18's were fired 12,000 rounds each with zero stoppages. apparently they're usually allowed 12 stoppages in 5,000 rounds.

i don't really know much about how effective they are downrange but i know our sigs p320 x series have a few thousand rounds through them now and i can't remember ever having a malfunction

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Trillhouse
Dec 31, 2000


I rented an 320 X5 (non legion) once and it was easily the nicest striker-gun I've ever shot. I'm always kinda on the lookout for a discount used one.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.

Somebody Awful posted:

If you're giving advice to novice shooters, citing someone who put his ego ahead of good judgment and made a fool of himself in public seems counter-productive.

a) Caleb is a demonstrably good shooter who also has figured out that pissing off idiots makes him youtube money. The second doesn't invalidate the first.
b) Paul Harrel's content is trash aimed at low-information gun owners and I can't really fault anyone who points that out.


Loan Dusty Road posted:

You kinda sorta maybe skipped this part.

If a newbie has a reason to not pick a Glock as a first pistol, and they weigh it against the disadvantages of not getting a Glock, and they choose not to get a Glock, then that's a-ok.

I have said at least twice today that I am not trying to say everyone should get a Glock as their first pistol. Just don't use dumb standards (like handfeel) to pick defensive pistols.

quote:

So what if you made no "mistakes" and bought the glock first and ended up shooting an M&P better?

Selling Glocks and Glock poo poo is much easier and involves losing less money.

poopgiggle fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 6, 2020

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




What's wrong with Paul Harrel? I've probably watched several hours of stuff from him recently when getting a feel of what gun would be a good first gun.

I mean a Glock wasn't even in his running for stuff he'd recommend, but he did steer me towards an autoloader pistol for my first gun

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.

Nitrousoxide posted:

What's wrong with Paul Harrel? I've probably watched several hours of stuff from him recently when getting a feel of what gun would be a good first gun.

I mean a Glock wasn't even in his running for stuff he'd recommend, but he did steer me towards an autoloader pistol for my first gun

poopgiggle posted:

You said mean things about an Internet personality that I like!

It was probably Paul Harrell. I loving hate Paul Harrell's videos. They appeal to low-information, low-effort gun owners who don't know any better. His competition record is a bunch of restricted service competitions from decades ago. His ballistic testing methodology uses non-repeatable test media and flies in the face of accepted industry practices. His FBI Miami Shootout video does get good reviews, and I'm sure he has some good information in his videos, but he puts out enough bullshit that it casts doubt over everything else he puts out. I fully expect to get hate mail for this paragraph.

Lucas Botkin (T-Rex Arms): he finally entered a 3-gun match, not even a super competitive one, and zeroed it. Came in like 200th place. Do not look to him as a source of shooting technique.

E: I changed "I loving hate Paul Harrell" to "I loving hate Paul Harrell's videos." I have never met Paul Harrel, and never talked to him online. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy IRL. The real issue I have is that his videos are a poor source of information. I edited this post to reflect that.

In addition to the above, all the Paul Harrel content I've managed to make it through (which isn't much because I get mad after a couple minutes) is stuff you'd read in early 90s gun magazines.

The full post that I quoted just there has some better defensive shooting info sources, btw.

poopgiggle fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 6, 2020

Ceros_X
Aug 6, 2006

U.S. Marine


Disagree that Paul Harrel is trash.

I was a huge Glock fanboi and recently switched to an X5. I cannot wait for the influx of cheap USGI holsters mags etc to flood the market in a few years for the P320. One of the reasons I sold my Beretta 92FS is to get out of it while it was good and to move myself in a position to get the P320. I was really blown away by the X5 - I didn't take too much of a bath selling all three of my Glocks and moving to the Sig platform. I still think Glocks are good, cheap guns (I'm one of the people that can naturally shoot a stock Glock pretty well, apparently :V) but the X5 is a better shooting gun with a smaller aftermarket and more expensive parts for now.

BrianM87
Oct 30, 2006
I keep missing. Are you sure the bullets work?

My got-to recommendation to new shooters is always going to be Gen 5 Glock 19 with Ameriglo agent sights. The combination of good sights right out of the box, cheap magazines, the store probably has a holster they can buy with it, and that they are just generally more available (At least in my area) makes them a pretty easy choice. I have no problem steering new shooters towards other options if they want to look at other things though. If they find something else they want I try to make sure they understand what they are getting in to and have them demonstrate that they can get a proper grip, reach and manipulate the controls without needing to adjust their grip too much, and look up prices of various accessories they may want in the future so that they understand their investment probably isn't going to end with just buying the gun. My recommendation to them is just that: a recommendation. They don't have to follow it. I will try to give them all the good information that I have but at the end of the day it's their money, their decision, and they'll buy what they want.

I have not found it to be particularly hard to teach people to shoot Glocks but most of my professional experience has been centered on only using them so experience teaching others to use different platforms is fairly limited. I did just pick up the P320 M18. Like I said in the Glock thread, I found it easier to run my Glock quickly but I think I can get there with the P320 too. I would not feel bad telling a new shooter to go that route either. M&Ps....I've had 3 and never kept one more than a couple months, I think they're an unreliable and inaccurate turd, but that's been my experience. I haven't tried the 2.0.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES


Comparing the X5 to a stock glock is hardly an apples-apples comparison.

Also yeah seconding that Paul Harrell makes bad videos for people who don't know better and gives questionable advice. Also was involved in a "defensive" shooting that resulted in death in extremely suspicious circumstances.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

Don't let Lowtax go down with the ship. Do your part for these dead gay forums.


poopgiggle posted:

a) Caleb is a demonstrably good shooter who also has figured out that pissing off idiots makes him youtube money. The second doesn't invalidate the first.
b) Paul Harrel's content is trash aimed at low-information gun owners and I can't really fault anyone who points that out.

You seem awfully fixated on Paul Harrell, who I didn't mention and wasn't planning to. I'm sure Caleb Giddings is a good shooter, but after seeing how he behaves to get attention I frankly don't give a gently caress. Larry Vickers is supposedly a good shooter but he's also a racist blowhard who endorsed snake oil and if you cited him I'd tell you to depart posthaste.

Since you brought it up again, there's one other point I need to touch on:

poopgiggle posted:

Lucas Botkin (T-Rex Arms): he finally entered a 3-gun match, not even a super competitive one, and zeroed it. Came in like 200th place. Do not look to him as a source of shooting technique.

This Lucas Botkin of T-Rex Arms, who earned a place in the OPs of the Racism, authoritarianism etc. thread for being "a homophobe that belongs to a fundamentalist Christian organization that sees women as breeding stock to guard against Satan and nothing more"?

Somebody Awful fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 7, 2020

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES


Yes that one

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
Posters' Local 42069





Clapping Larry

what does the last fifty posts have to do with newbie questions

if I want to mount an optic on a rifle (it's a marlin 1894) how many Things do I need to buy? I'm confused because there's a bunch of kits that say like, "Mount and rings" or just "mounting system" which includes rings?

I'm assuming it's three things... mount, rings, and scope?

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


Gunshow Poophole posted:

what does the last fifty posts have to do with newbie questions

if I want to mount an optic on a rifle (it's a marlin 1894) how many Things do I need to buy? I'm confused because there's a bunch of kits that say like, "Mount and rings" or just "mounting system" which includes rings?

I'm assuming it's three things... mount, rings, and scope?

Are you wanting to add a rail for the optic? Or is the receiver drilled/tapped for rings?

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Gunshow Poophole posted:

I'm assuming it's three things... mount, rings, and scope?

Correct. The mount is your rail you'll (more or less) permanent install to the rifle, so that you can mount the rings to the rail which holds your scope. Rings can either just be single rings you mount directly to the rail, or cantilever mount things that have a base with 2 spaced out rings. There are dovetail mounts too, that work their own way different from rails. Depends what you're doing and what you got. If you're working with a bare receiver top, you will have to figure out your own mount + rings combo.

You might need something to level the scope with, and to bore sight it. Not sure if you can bore sight just by looking through the rear of the receiver.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.

I'm gonna let the Paul Harrell poo poo drop, because I've said what I'm going to say, but

Somebody Awful posted:

This Lucas Botkin of T-Rex Arms, who earned a place in the OPs of the Racism, authoritarianism etc. thread for being "a homophobe that belongs to a fundamentalist Christian organization that sees women as breeding stock to guard against Satan and nothing more"?



the reason to not listen to him re: shooting is that he has never (to my knowledge) demonstrated, in a controlled setting, solid shooting skill.

the reason you shouldn't give him or his company money is because you will be funding his dad's weirdo racist cult. I left that out, and maybe I shouldn't have.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

Gunshow Poophole posted:

what does the last fifty posts have to do with newbie questions

if I want to mount an optic on a rifle (it's a marlin 1894) how many Things do I need to buy? I'm confused because there's a bunch of kits that say like, "Mount and rings" or just "mounting system" which includes rings?

I'm assuming it's three things... mount, rings, and scope?

That depends. If the rifle has a rail build into or otherwise attached to the receiver you'll just attach a scope mount OR rings to that, plus the scope, and that's it. If it doesn't have some sort of attachment system built in then you will have to attach one. Some rifles like HKs have a clamping system to do this but most older rifles require holes to be drilled and tapped in order to attach a mount. Depending on your rifle these holes may have been drilled from the factory or by a previous owner.

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
Posters' Local 42069





Clapping Larry

thanks, it's tapped for a scope mount. so for some versatility, I could get a picatinny rail that I permanently attach to the receiver, which will allow me to then mount a variety of stuff to it, correct?

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

Gunshow Poophole posted:

thanks, it's tapped for a scope mount. so for some versatility, I could get a picatinny rail that I permanently attach to the receiver, which will allow me to then mount a variety of stuff to it, correct?

Correct. Any modern optic intended for the western market is going to either fit a Picatinny rail directly or fit into a mount or rings that fit onto a Picatinny rail. These may also be called Weaver rails but that's basically an older version that's more or less the same thing.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Gunshow Poophole posted:

thanks, it's tapped for a scope mount. so for some versatility, I could get a picatinny rail that I permanently attach to the receiver, which will allow me to then mount a variety of stuff to it, correct?

What kind of optic?

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
Posters' Local 42069





Clapping Larry

Tyro posted:

What kind of optic?

dunno yet which is why i'm asking the general like, setup questions now.

gonna learn on irons and then I dunno. what's the grotesquest perversion of cowboy aesthetic possible, like a red dot or something?

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Gunshow Poophole posted:

what does the last fifty posts have to do with newbie questions

Every time there's 50 new posts to this thread in a day I know it's a bunch of angry bullshit that probably turns off newbies from this forum.

Ceros_X
Aug 6, 2006

U.S. Marine


Pennywise the Frown posted:

Every time there's 50 new posts to this thread in a day I know it's a bunch of angry bullshit that probably turns off newbies from this forum.

Good thing that isn't what happened here so...??

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

We have different definitions I guess. It doesn't have to be screaming to be angry. Telling people what they have to do or what they can't do is offputting to new people.

Ceros_X
Aug 6, 2006

U.S. Marine


Pennywise the Frown posted:

We have different definitions I guess. It doesn't have to be screaming to be angry. Telling people what they have to do or what they can't do is offputting to new people.

Literally no one is doing that. Everyone is sharing their experiences with different popular mainstream handguns.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

Gunshow Poophole posted:

dunno yet which is why i'm asking the general like, setup questions now.

gonna learn on irons and then I dunno. what's the grotesquest perversion of cowboy aesthetic possible, like a red dot or something?

The most aesthetic clash you could have with a cowboy gun is probably anything on this page: https://russianoptics.net/nightvision.html

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Ceros_X posted:

Literally no one is doing that. Everyone is sharing their experiences with different popular mainstream handguns.

Ok. I won't derail this.

FauxhawkSatan
Mar 27, 2010


Pennywise the Frown posted:

We have different definitions I guess. It doesn't have to be screaming to be angry. Telling people what they have to do or what they can't do is offputting to new people.

Just because we have differing opinions doesn't mean we're angry. You have multiple good posters making well articulated and well reasoned arguments on what a newbie should consider when picking a gun. Sometimes we're a little blunt but this is the internet after all.

The only slightly off topic portion is the Paul Harrell/Caleb Giddings/Lucas Botkin posts but explaining to newbies why you shouldn't believe what someone on YouTube says is a good thing.

Proper Kerni ng
Nov 14, 2011



heeeyyy could all y'all maybe do us a favor real quick and shut the gently caress up so new guys can ask questions

Gunshow Poophole posted:

what's the grotesquest perversion of cowboy aesthetic possible, like a red dot or something?
A red dot sight on an 1894 is in fact an awesome choice, and one that's pretty much guaranteed to be super fun. If you're planning on longer range hunting or target shooting, a decent scope with non-cheap rings will probably be a better choice, but for fun target shooting (like seeing how many water-filled soda bottles you can KA-BLOOSH in five seconds) and hunting inside 75 yards or so, a red dot will be a lot easier and more entertaining to use.

One thing about accessorizing cowboy guns is that it doesn't matter how goofy you try to make them, all you've done is make a prop from an action movie sub-genre. Peep sights or a long brass tube scope? Historically Accurate Western. Red dot? Space Cowboy. Giant night vision scope? Small Town Sheriff Revenge Thriller. Chrome with neon green and orange furniture? Screwball Comedy. Visible laser? Terminator movie. Grenade launcher? Post-Apocalyptic Anime. Lever actions are just fun as hell no matter what you do with them.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Proper Kerni ng posted:

heeeyyy could all y'all maybe do us a favor real quick and shut the gently caress up so new guys can ask questions

A red dot sight on an 1894 is in fact an awesome choice, and one that's pretty much guaranteed to be super fun. If you're planning on longer range hunting or target shooting, a decent scope with non-cheap rings will probably be a better choice, but for fun target shooting (like seeing how many water-filled soda bottles you can KA-BLOOSH in five seconds) and hunting inside 75 yards or so, a red dot will be a lot easier and more entertaining to use.

One thing about accessorizing cowboy guns is that it doesn't matter how goofy you try to make them, all you've done is make a prop from an action movie sub-genre. Peep sights or a long brass tube scope? Historically Accurate Western. Red dot? Space Cowboy. Giant night vision scope? Small Town Sheriff Revenge Thriller. Chrome with neon green and orange furniture? Screwball Comedy. Visible laser? Terminator movie. Grenade launcher? Post-Apocalyptic Anime. Lever actions are just fun as hell no matter what you do with them.

Yeah my 1894c is leaning into the Space Cowboy aesthetically, and I haven't even decided if I'm going to install the Mlok handguard I have for it or not. Red dot is a great choice.

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


poo poo, now I need to definitely get a lever gun and put a red dot on it. Been rewatching Cowboy Bebop and now I wanna live my space cowboy fantasies.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

jwang posted:

poo poo, now I need to definitely get a lever gun and put a red dot on it. Been rewatching Cowboy Bebop and now I wanna live my space cowboy fantasies.

Search reddit or just Google images for "space lever action" or things like that and you'll find some pretty neat modern/future looking lever guns people have put together. It's kind of a small fad recently and it can be done very well IMO.

AhhYes
Dec 1, 2004

* Click *


College Slice

Former Marine here, so not new to firearms, but never owned one myself.

Been thinking about buying something, and my familiarity with the M-16 has me thinking an AR of some kind. Would basically only go to the range.

Pretty sure I'd like a carbine variant, as short/small as I can legally go. Anyone care to feed me a few recommendations? I'd want something reliable and super basic. Iron sights, no frills. TIA

Action-Bastard
Jan 1, 2008



AhhYes posted:

Former Marine here, so not new to firearms, but never owned one myself.

Been thinking about buying something, and my familiarity with the M-16 has me thinking an AR of some kind. Would basically only go to the range.

Pretty sure I'd like a carbine variant, as short/small as I can legally go. Anyone care to feed me a few recommendations? I'd want something reliable and super basic. Iron sights, no frills. TIA

You might have more success posting this in the AR15 thread, but whats your budget for this rifle?

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

Don't let Lowtax go down with the ship. Do your part for these dead gay forums.


Knowing your ideal price range would help, but for a basic carbine you could do worse than a Ruger AR-556, S&W M&P-15, or some combination of pre-assembled upper and lower halves from Aero Precision. Palmetto State Armory used to be one of the go-to budget brands but the quality slipped and they've had an ongoing problem with customers' credit cards getting compromised.

If you haven't checked it out yet, we have an AR-15 megathread that can give you lots more options.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

AhhYes posted:

Former Marine here, so not new to firearms, but never owned one myself.

Been thinking about buying something, and my familiarity with the M-16 has me thinking an AR of some kind. Would basically only go to the range.

Pretty sure I'd like a carbine variant, as short/small as I can legally go. Anyone care to feed me a few recommendations? I'd want something reliable and super basic. Iron sights, no frills. TIA

If you're looking for an AR recommendation, this thread is focused on that and, IIRC, recently got a refreshed after the old one got super long.

AhhYes
Dec 1, 2004

* Click *


College Slice

Action-Bastard posted:

You might have more success posting this in the AR15 thread, but whats your budget for this rifle?

Right. I'll check out the AR thread for sure but I know so little of the market that I thought the newbie thread would be best.

I could see spending up to 1k or so.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE





Illegal Hen

For $1k you can get yourself a really nice prebuilt AR-15, or a mid-tier AR-15 and lots of ammo. Also going iron sights saves you .

As mentioned, the AR-15 thread's OP will help a lot there.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




I assume one should get a light for a gun that is being purchased, at least in part, for home defense correct?

Should you basically get a blinding light, the hope being that you can discourage a would be attacker from continuing to be aggressive? Or is that not a thing that actually stops anyone in the real world?

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I


Yeah, a blindingly bright light can definitely impede a less motivated opponent, at least discouraging them for long enough for them to realize ďah gently caress, gun.Ē A strobe is even better in that regard, but for a home defense gun you probably donít want to be fiddling with settings like that. The Streamlight TLR-2 is generally what gets recommended.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone




So 300 lumens should do the trick? I looks like that suggestion doesn't have a USB recharged battery, and I don't really want to be fussing around with tiny non-rechargeable batteries.

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Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES


Anonymous Robot posted:

Yeah, a blindingly bright light can definitely impede a less motivated opponent, at least discouraging them for long enough for them to realize ah gently caress, gun. A strobe is even better in that regard, but for a home defense gun you probably dont want to be fiddling with settings like that. The Streamlight TLR-2 is generally what gets recommended.

No definitely not the TLR-2

The TLR-1 HL is the entry-level light most recommended. Lasers are mostly worthless.

Nitrousoxide posted:

So 300 lumens should do the trick? I looks like that suggestion doesn't have a USB recharged battery, and I don't really want to be fussing around with tiny non-rechargeable batteries.

More lumen is always better, the TLR-1 HL has 1000 and can usually be found for just over $100. It's definitely the one to go with.

I don't know of any good lights that are USB rechargeable.

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