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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



The other argument I've seen in favor of slingshotting the slide is that it's a gross motor function, which means that when you're dumping adrenaline and making GBS threads your pants you're less likely to gently caress it up than trying to hit a smaller control like a slide catch.

The counterargument to that tends to be that you should train so that you can use your guns controls during those high-stress moments.

I'm high-drag enough to be officially classified as a sea anchor so I'm not going to opine on who is correct.

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MantisClaw
Jun 3, 2011


The counter argument to anything related to gross motor skill is that pressing the trigger straight to the rear without disrupting the sights is a fine motor skill, yet everyone still says you should do that.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I


Cyrano4747 posted:

The other argument I've seen in favor of slingshotting the slide is that it's a gross motor function, which means that when you're dumping adrenaline and making GBS threads your pants you're less likely to gently caress it up than trying to hit a smaller control like a slide catch.

The counterargument to that tends to be that you should train so that you can use your guns controls during those high-stress moments.

I'm high-drag enough to be officially classified as a sea anchor so I'm not going to opine on who is correct.

Yeah, this is basically what it boils down to. You will do what youíve trained to do. In the final analysis, the slide catch is superior because it allows you to keep your grip and muzzle position much closer to a firing position than overhand racking, but youíre starting to split hairs there. Maybe thatís worth doing for competing in IDPA or something, but for practical purposes youíre extremely unlikely to be reloading in a defensive scenario. Maybe more likely to be clearing a failure to cycle, where racking all the way back would be necessary, but again, weíre getting into the weeds there.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

The only argument I've ever heard for slingshotting instead of using the slide release is that on some pistols, it's a slide lock only and not really meant to be actuated to release the slide. Sure, you can do it, but each time, you do a teeny tiny bit of damage to it somehow, like you're wearing down a part that shouldn't be worn down, and eventually it won't lock the slide back reliably, and the gun will just start Taurusing all over the place.

I don't know if that's true or not, mind you. It's just the only thing I've ever actually heard in this whole debate, and I only kind-of listen because I'm a revolver guy. I think I've only ever heard people say this about polymer frame, striker-fired pistols, though.

I don't know.

darnon
Nov 8, 2009


The slide slamming into the catch on empty like it's, y'know, designed for is much more force to potentially damage than manually sliding the release out of its catch notch.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

The PMR-30 manual does indeed say not to use it as a slide release and to slingshot it. Not sure why they would even bother including it though if theyíre gonna say not to use it, might as well make it CZ-52 style with a hold open and no manual release.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

tarlibone posted:

I think I've only ever heard people say this about polymer frame, striker-fired pistols, though.

I don't know.

I've personally seen it on two pistols, both metal-framed, hammer-fired guns: a 1911, and a Beretta 84.



darnon posted:

The slide slamming into the catch on empty like it's, y'know, designed for is much more force to potentially damage than manually sliding the release out of its catch notch.

The forces are different, though; one is a straight impact to the rear surface of the slide stop, and the other is sliding two surface against each other under spring tension. I've never seen a thin, stamped-metal slide stop wear out (as on a Glock or SIG), but the larger, machined slide stops appear to wear more, especially at the top rear corner. And once that sharp-edged corner is no longer sharp-edged, it doesn't lock the slide back reliably. Or at all.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019




Train to shoot with your weak hand in case one of your hands gets injured... but ONLY EVER DROP THE SLIDE IN A WAY THAT NEEDS BOTH HANDS!!

I just do whatever feels best on the particular gun.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

The only gun I slingshot is my Beretta 81BB because the slide release is super loving hard to reach.

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

I had a slide stop/release break on a S&W M&P40 but no idea if thumbing it to release the slide contributed to that in any way. There's my useless anecdote on the topic.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Final Blog Entry posted:

I had a slide stop/release break on a S&W M&P40 but no idea if thumbing it to release the slide contributed to that in any way. There's my useless anecdote on the topic.

Not totally useless anecdote. I didn't know S&W M&P40 slide stops can break.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



I slingshot every gun because every gun has a dot on top and it's way easier to reach the dot to grab than the dinky slide release on most guns.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


L0cke17 posted:

I slingshot every gun because every gun has a dot on top and it's way easier to reach the dot to grab than the dinky slide release on most guns.

I sweat like a pig and always get my dot glass wet. So I slide stop.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



My G43 will occasionally not drop the slide when I only use the release. I think it's the Hornady Critical Defense rubber stoppers on the end of the hollow point or something.

If I give it a shake, it shuts. I cannot replicate it on command either. But the gun doesn't have really high round count compared to my others, so I'm not too worried about it.

I've also never had a malfunction with the G43 at the range, which I cannot say about my G19.





(I got three on that particular poo poo ammo from the extractor shearing the rounds, so it doesn't really count.)

Trillhouse
Dec 31, 2000



i never got used to sling shotting because i thought using the slide release looked cooler.

now pushing the bolt release on your AR-15 with your thumb vs smacking it with the bottom of your hand...i go back and forth on that one. thumb is much faster...but not as cool as smack. and can't be done in anger really.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




MantisClaw posted:

The counter argument to anything related to gross motor skill is that pressing the trigger straight to the rear without disrupting the sights is a fine motor skill, yet everyone still says you should do that.

pushing the mag release is also a fine motor skill!

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

poopgiggle posted:

pushing the mag release is also a fine motor skill!

Right? Fine motor skills are fine (see what I did there) as long as you practice them to the point where you don't have to consciously think about them to do them. And can do them with either hand. Or when injured.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019




Trillhouse posted:

i never got used to sling shotting because i thought using the slide release looked cooler.

now pushing the bolt release on your AR-15 with your thumb vs smacking it with the bottom of your hand...i go back and forth on that one. thumb is much faster...but not as cool as smack. and can't be done in anger really.

On some pistols you can make the slide drop just by slamming the mag in really, really hard, which will make you look even cooler.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




lookin butch as hell by reracking with my teeth

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

Owlbear Camus posted:

lookin butch as hell by reracking with my teeth

Teeth? How adorable. Reminds me of when I used my tongue.

Nowadays, if I'm blastin' semi, I bring the gun up to my face, inhale sharply, and the force of my breathing draws the slide back. I need that breath anyway so I can shout "THAT'S MY PURSE! I DON'T KNOW YOU!!"

If I'm being stealthy and I need to rack the slide, I draw the gun back super-fast and then forcefully shove it forward suddenly. The inertia racks the slide.

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



I wind up slingshotting 99% of the time because my thumbs are so long Im constantly riding the slide stop.

smax
Nov 9, 2009



Iím a slingshotter, but Iím a lefty so I donít necessarily have a slide release right next to my thumb. It just makes more sense for my purposes.

I do change things up slightly for my P238. The gun is so small, my hands are relatively big, and the spring is relatively weak - Iíll keep my weak hand wrapped around my firing hand like normal, and pinch the sides of the slide with my thumb and index finger from below to slingshot it without significantly changing my grip. Oddly, it feels more natural to do it that way with that particular gun than a traditional slingshot.

Disclaimer for newbie thread- my personal preference, YMMV, may not be the greatest idea in the grand scheme of things.

Trillhouse
Dec 31, 2000



Dip Viscous posted:

On some pistols you can make the slide drop just by slamming the mag in really, really hard, which will make you look even cooler.

i've done uspsa shoots with guys who file the slide release a little so this happens every time.

seems too sketchy to me imo. I can hit the slide release on my cz with my dominant hand thumb.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


If you're using a slide release in USPSA you hosed up

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

If you're using a slide release in USPSA you hosed up

It me erry time

Because you can't plan your reloads ON THE STREET

I plan reloads sometimes. But that's a lot of poo poo to remember when I can barely keep track of where all the targets are to begin with.

NickBlasta
May 16, 2003

Clearly their proficiency at shooting is supernatural, not practical, in origin.


MazeOfTzeentch posted:

If you're using a slide release in USPSA you hosed up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R93cHUVj3W4

Me when people say "fine motor skills"

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!


I'm "one of you" now. I finally own a firearm. I've been shooting a few times over the years, got my scout riflery merit badge, been to the range a dozen other times. Always with someone else's guns. (A reasonable variety too.)

I bought some parts, and built an AR. (Yay! lego gun!) It's pretty. PSA lower, and Always Armed upper. With some cheap Chinese accessories.

It works. I can shoot what I consider to be reasonable groups with it. I've had some 160 rounds through it. And it's had exactly zero failures. I feel pretty good with that.

I ended up at a county range a week and a half ago, and really enjoyed working with a friend and a spotting scope.

My big hangup, is I am generally, uncomfortable in gun shops, and even ranges. They end up feeling like clubs, and I'm an outsider. Also, my "goals" don't seem to align much with people there. Maybe I don't feel like I should be there? Excepting here, and a couple youtube channels, I feel that most of gun culture doesn't align with how I view the world. And that's a bit uncomfortable. I also feel a lot of "I"m going to do it wrong" while I'm at a range around anyone but friends. Maybe exposure therapy is the method there.

I have a long history playing paintball. Most of my trigger time, is getting to a position, and attempting to take a shot under pressure, and "close enough". While I find shooting for precision fun. I would also like to be able to using a gun in a practical sense. Where does one go for that? What's the terminology I should be looking for? Where does one get lessons?

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

Nerobro posted:

My big hangup, is I am generally, uncomfortable in gun shops, and even ranges. They end up feeling like clubs, and I'm an outsider. Also, my "goals" don't seem to align much with people there. Maybe I don't feel like I should be there? Excepting here, and a couple youtube channels, I feel that most of gun culture doesn't align with how I view the world. And that's a bit uncomfortable. I also feel a lot of "I"m going to do it wrong" while I'm at a range around anyone but friends. Maybe exposure therapy is the method there.

Can we make this the board's title, or is that too many characters?

Oh, and welcome! This paragraph describes me to some degree a couple years ago when I finally got a gun and, yeah, felt like an outsider everywhere but here. But instead of building a Lego gun, I bought a revolver, because revolvers are the best guns.

If I ever build an AR, it'll be because I like building things. It's sad that you can't build other kinds of rifles as easily.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



Nerobro posted:


My big hangup, is I am generally, uncomfortable in gun shops, and even ranges. They end up feeling like clubs, and I'm an outsider. Also, my "goals" don't seem to align much with people there. Maybe I don't feel like I should be there? Excepting here, and a couple youtube channels, I feel that most of gun culture doesn't align with how I view the world. And that's a bit uncomfortable. I also feel a lot of "I"m going to do it wrong" while I'm at a range around anyone but friends. Maybe exposure therapy is the method there.


I have been shooting for 30 years and had guns of my own since I was a teenager and I still don't always feel comfortable in some gun stores. The thing to remember that sometimes helps, is in the shop and especially at the range you're generally around people who are into guns so if you focus on that you can often relate on a level where you share a lot more in common than about politics or whatever. I try to talk about the hardware and avoid the rest.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Nerobro posted:

I would also like to be able to using a gun in a practical sense. Where does one go for that? What's the terminology I should be looking for? Where does one get lessons?

About where are you located?

It sounds like taking some training classes and competition might be more your speed.

Take a look at disciplines like USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge, and multigun (2-gun and 3-gun). I'm gonna shamelessly plug my match playlist to get an idea of what practical shooting competition looks like.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWnlG4U0XLmKtK-XrPyJgzJmdOfnQVXNi

To find matches near you, sign up for a Practiscore account (free) and use their search feature. For a first match, I recommend steel challenge, there's little to no movement, just a draw and shoot the steel in front of you (shooting the red marked stop plate last), or a falling steel match.

As far as training, the environment and availability varies wildly, as does the curriculum. It sounds like you're experienced enough to skip over the basic NRA training which is often centered on brand new shooters and safety.

MazeOfTzeentch fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jul 25, 2021

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


There is also an increasing number of non-fuddy shooters and stores run by the gun version of Comic Book Guy are slowly losing market share.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!


tarlibone posted:

Can we make this the board's title, or is that too many characters?

Oh, and welcome! This paragraph describes me to some degree a couple years ago when I finally got a gun and, yeah, felt like an outsider everywhere but here. But instead of building a Lego gun, I bought a revolver, because revolvers are the best guns.

glynnenstein posted:

I have been shooting for 30 years and had guns of my own since I was a teenager and I still don't always feel comfortable in some gun stores.

Well yay, i'm not alone.

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

About where are you located?

It sounds like taking some training classes and competition might be more your speed.
*snip*
As far as training, the environment and availability varies wildly, as does the curriculum. It sounds like you're experienced enough to skip over the basic NRA training which is often centered on brand new shooters and safety.

Chicagoland, near west suburbs.

I appreciate the list of organizations. I was thinking that "dive into training" was the way to go for that.

I'm all for being in competitions.

A local range has a 30 minute into thing, that I might take "just to take".

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

Nerobro posted:

Well yay, i'm not alone.

Chicagoland, near west suburbs.

I appreciate the list of organizations. I was thinking that "dive into training" was the way to go for that.

I'm all for being in competitions.

A local range has a 30 minute into thing, that I might take "just to take".

Fellow Illinoisan!

Understand that I love you because guns and Goons and stuff. Understand also that as a downstater, I distrust you, incorrectly assume that my taxes are supporting your infrastructure, and I just know you're supporting the wrong baseball and hockey teams.

So consider this your handshake, and when you turn around, your shaking-a-fist-at-behind-your-back-ing. Take a class and apply for your CCL immediately, and who knows? Approval might come in time for your first renewal.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Nerobro posted:

Well yay, i'm not alone.

Chicagoland, near west suburbs.

I appreciate the list of organizations. I was thinking that "dive into training" was the way to go for that.

I'm all for being in competitions.

A local range has a 30 minute into thing, that I might take "just to take".

Drop into the Competition megathread and ask around; I know Lunchboxxx and some others are in that area and they probably know all the cool places to go. Also, if you feel like going to Michigan, may I suggest MDFI?

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE




Nerobro posted:

My big hangup, is I am generally, uncomfortable in gun shops, and even ranges. They end up feeling like clubs, and I'm an outsider. Also, my "goals" don't seem to align much with people there. Maybe I don't feel like I should be there? Excepting here, and a couple youtube channels, I feel that most of gun culture doesn't align with how I view the world. And that's a bit uncomfortable. I also feel a lot of "I"m going to do it wrong" while I'm at a range around anyone but friends. Maybe exposure therapy is the method there.

I've been shooting for more than 30 years and I still do not feel entirely at ease on a range with other people there that I do not know. It's ok to be vigilant-- everyone present is handling devices that can be incredibly dangerous if misused or used with ill intent.

I've also left stores and never returned because of loud displays of bigotry or conspiracy theorizing (or both). You're not alone in finding these spaces occasionally uncomfortable. The good news is that a growing number of people from outside of the traditional demographics associated with the shooting sports are warming to the idea of knowing how to safely handle firearms and recreational marksmanship!

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



Shot since I was a little kid. I still cannot forget some of the loving butt puckering moments I've experienced in gun stores. Not around friends, or family, or gun ranges, but stores. Nothing quite like the time two maaaaybe twenty-one year olds were laughing like mad while trying to paint each other with Crimson Trace laser grips on a revolver, while jumping and dodging around stuff. With their fingers on the trigger to dry fire at the wrong times.

While some persons are great, people are the worst.

Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006


Nerobro posted:

My big hangup, is I am generally, uncomfortable in gun shops, and even ranges. They end up feeling like clubs, and I'm an outsider. Also, my "goals" don't seem to align much with people there. Maybe I don't feel like I should be there? Excepting here, and a couple youtube channels, I feel that most of gun culture doesn't align with how I view the world. And that's a bit uncomfortable. I also feel a lot of "I"m going to do it wrong" while I'm at a range around anyone but friends. Maybe exposure therapy is the method there.

I would check out several different ranges and stores. Most clubs and ranges lean conservative in a political sense but usually there are ones that are actually pretty open and accepting regardless of who you are or what you believe. Also this might sound odd but check out meet up, I stumbled on a lgtbq+ gun group focused in my area.

Nerobro posted:

I have a long history playing paintball. Most of my trigger time, is getting to a position, and attempting to take a shot under pressure, and "close enough". While I find shooting for precision fun. I would also like to be able to using a gun in a practical sense. Where does one go for that? What's the terminology I should be looking for? Where does one get lessons?

Sounds like you would like IDPA, IPSC and the action shooting sports.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



discord link?

Trillhouse
Dec 31, 2000



Yeah gun culture can be pretty lovely. I really, really hate the new-school "tactical instagram operator" and find them equally as obnoxious as boomer fudds.

Competiive shooting is usually a lot better because it's mostly concerned with the sporting/game aspect. Plus, like any proper martial art, it's completely humbling and showing up more than once means you've accepted that there are old guys with pot bellies out there that can absolutely destroy you in every aspect of marksmanship. There are a lot of guys (especially cops lol) that show up once and never come back because they can't accept that they're not as good as they think they are.

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Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE




Trillhouse posted:

Yeah gun culture can be pretty lovely. I really, really hate the new-school "tactical instagram operator" and find them equally as obnoxious as boomer fudds.

Competiive shooting is usually a lot better because it's mostly concerned with the sporting/game aspect. Plus, like any proper martial art, it's completely humbling and showing up more than once means you've accepted that there are old guys with pot bellies out there that can absolutely destroy you in every aspect of marksmanship. There are a lot of guys (especially cops lol) that show up once and never come back because they can't accept that they're not as good as they think they are.

I enjoyed shooting competitions a lot more once I came to understand that I wasn't competing against other shooters, but rather against myself. Marksmanship is the ultimate sport of personal accountability.

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