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Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Nap Ghost

So that this doesn't continue to poo poo up the CE thread, argue here about whether voting for Biden is worthwhile. I personally will almost surely vote for him, but I will not campaign or fight for him because I don't believe anything will be fundamentally different (because he's gonna lose).

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M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

Exciting Lemon

I'm going to vote for him while complaining the whole time because he is the most worthless candidate to be put forward by the DNC in my lifetime. He's a sundowning old white boomer with terrible policies and a history of generic old white dude racism and misogyny. Plus a life of credible workplace sexual misconduct at a minimum.

But on the other hand you have trump so we need a tourniquet to stanch the bleeding for a year or two. I expect Biden to at a minimum not make things worse during his term, but his way into keeping them bad because of how much he sucks.

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


I'm pissed we have to stare down the barrel of this for another 6 months.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Nap Ghost

SquirrelyPSU posted:

I'm pissed we have to stare down the barrel of this for another 6 months.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Johnny Pussy?


SquirrelyPSU posted:

I'm pissed we have to stare down the barrel of this for another 6 months.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


Pillbug

I'll vote for Biden if I absolutely have to, but that doesn't mean I'm happy about it or even slightly okay with the fact that the DNC had four years to learn from its 2016 mistakes and come up with a candidate who could defeat Donald loving Trump.

If the Democrats lose this election, I'm leaving the party and will just be an independent from now on.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

Exciting Lemon

pantslesswithwolves posted:

I'll vote for Biden if I absolutely have to, but that doesn't mean I'm happy about it or even slightly okay with the fact that the DNC had four years to learn from its 2016 mistakes and come up with a candidate who could defeat Donald loving Trump.

If the Democrats lose this election, I'm leaving the party and will just be an independent from now on.

The "Democrats" are now essentially two parties, a split at the local level with the younger socialists voters who were Bernies biggest backers and helped swing a lot of local elections away from old incumbents. That portion of the party is slowly growing and needs more local level activism on a week to week and month to month basis. The amount of community organizing they've done is already leaps and bounds ahead of what the DNC does, and is almost getting to the effectiveness of the GOP's equivalent church deathcultist community activism.

The national DNC on the other hand is so firmly entrenched with wealthy liberal conservatives that they will never change until removed by the younger party, and then you'll see a huge nation wide messaging shift assuming the people who rose to power don't also immediately fall to a briefcase full of cash.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


Gonna write in Robespierre because people give a poo poo about protest votes!!!!

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.



Kawasaki Nun posted:

Gonna write in Robespierre because people give a poo poo about protest votes!!!!

I'm genuinely curious what percentage of the national vote Bernie would get if he isn't the nominee.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


A Bad Poster posted:

I'm genuinely curious what percentage of the national vote Bernie would get if he isn't the nominee.

I'm sure someone in the Trump campaign will let everyone know what the spread was, and will undoubtedly play up how important those votes were in cementing his victory.

It's a nice wedge to keep his opposition divided and angry.

Jim Long-un
May 28, 2010

Well the word got around they said this kid is insane, man
Banged in the mouth and now he's got AIDS, man


The DNC pulled this poo poo because they know that no matter how hard they gently caress over their own voting base they can yell TURNMP and get a good portion of them to slump along into the polls and still press the button despite being totally super mad and unhappy about it. But as long as you still press that button they don't give a single poo poo. The Democratic party is no longer a political party by any real definition, it has no agenda, nor the competence or will to acquire and use political power to accomplish anything. At best it's a bunch of fart-sniffing bluebloods who are far too isolated to ever understand the struggles of the people they're allegedly representing; at worst they are an active act of sabotage towards the viability of any real left-wing movement (and after the last two primaries, I'm leaning towards the latter). And the only leverage you have at all against them is your vote. It counts for vanishingly little in our system but it's literally all you have. If you see them flagrantly deny your values, openly commit graft and fraud and election rigging while waging a propaganda war directly against your interests, and you still give them your vote, you are a worm and they will treat you like one. And you will deserve it. Trump, for all his insufferableness, is the best thing to happen to the American left wing in decades. And now that the Republicans are playing at appropriating the socialist face the Democrats are currently occupied with undermining at any cost, it's more important than ever to give momentum to the real left-wing movement to slow the further entrenchment of the right wing. If Bernie is not nominated, I will be voting downticket to support any non-shitlib candidates on the ballot, but I will decline to vote for president, and then I will go home and watch Trump sweep.

KirbyKhan
Mar 20, 2009




Soiled Meat

Jim Long-un posted:

If Bernie is not nominated, I will be voting downticket to support any non-shitlib candidates on the ballot, but I will decline to vote for president, and then I will go home and watch Trump sweep.

Same

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


I'm feeling pretty good about Joe, word is he's been using this quarantine time to practice saying "Listen here, Jack!" to a mirror five hours a day

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


I think calling Trump insufferable is insulting to the word. If he had any legislative tact, can you imagine what could have transpired in the last 3 years? He poses a serious, critical threat to mankind and has zero compunction about watching millions of his "constituents" die so long as it is outside of his line of sight. This idealistic position taken by a vocal contingent of the Sanders support is hilariously naive. Our electoral process is earth-shatteringly broken, but right now its what we got and I cannot understand a world-view in which putting Cantaloupe McFuck Face in the Hague is not a national priority.

/end tweet

e: Overall I agree with your position, just not the voting part of it and I wanted to put CMcFF into writing.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


I'm continually impressed at how much people let their egos control how they vote.

All the talk about the greater good really is just noise from most people.

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


I don't necessarily take issue with letting your ideals guide your actions, but I think there is an upper threshold for that, and we are well beyond it. In my opinion anyways.

Given a choice, I would vote Sanders, but it doesn't look like I'll get that chance (outside of the primary). So be it, I'll hopefully get the opportunity at some point to voice my criticism with the DNC with the lack of quality candidates. There is no higher priority in my world than seeing this dude escorted far away from any position of authority. I guess that makes me a single-issue voter.

A Bad Poster posted:

I'm genuinely curious what percentage of the national vote Bernie would get if he isn't the nominee.

I was going to guess 5%, but googling really quick, 538 estimates 4%.

Linky

SquirrelyPSU fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Apr 7, 2020

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


Great, lets get it all out.

The Democrat establishment is largely ok with being a permanent minority party and putting up performative resistance to Republican ideals while simultaneously voting for them for token concessions. Incrementalism was only ever to the right, neoliberalism was just a cover to pass Republican policy when the GOP couldn't get the messaging down to do it and both the Clinton and Obama administrations were abject failures for Democrat policies. The Democrat Party refuses to offer up policies that will substantially benefit the people it supposedly represents, and there is no reason to support them while they continue to do so. Bush is Obama is Trump is Biden when it comes to the vast majority of this country who have been sold down the river for decades by the establishment of both parties.

The 'base' of the Democrat Party is predominantly older conservatives who either due to abortion rights or racism can't pull the level for the GOP. They're fine with tax cuts, cutting social programs, a police state, homophobia, runaway defense spending and evangelism. The Democrat Party and notably the supporters of Biden are fine with Trump's policies, it just his messaging they don't like. As the rich burn down the world for the second time in two decades, the party is coalescing around a guy who not only built his career on one right wing policy after another, but actively opposes tremendously popular policies like Medicare4All. Joe said it himself, nothing will fundamentally change. Well, I heard him loud and clear, and so did many others. We are not the same, I will never vote for Biden.

Riot Carol Danvers
Jul 30, 2004

It's super dumb, but I can't stop myself. This is just kind of how I do things.


Imagine Trump without the need to campaign for reelection - four more years of a man who has actively caused the deaths of thousands in the US alone, but without any reason to even pretend to give a gently caress. An administration so craven it thinks kids in cages is fine and that ICE should be it's own army, complete with corporate sponsorships. That's not even counting how badly their incompetence and malice are hurting and killing people during a godamn global pandemic.

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


Proud Christian Mom posted:

Great, lets get it all out.

The Democrat establishment is largely ok with being a permanent minority party and putting up performative resistance to Republican ideals while simultaneously voting for them for token concessions. Incrementalism was only ever to the right, neoliberalism was just a cover to pass Republican policy when the GOP couldn't get the messaging down to do it and both the Clinton and Obama administrations were abject failures for Democrat policies. The Democrat Party refuses to offer up policies that will substantially benefit the people it supposedly represents, and there is no reason to support them while they continue to do so. Bush is Obama is Trump is Biden when it comes to the vast majority of this country who have been sold down the river for decades by the establishment of both parties.

The 'base' of the Democrat Party is predominantly older conservatives who either due to abortion rights or racism can't pull the level for the GOP. They're fine with tax cuts, cutting social programs, a police state, homophobia, runaway defense spending and evangelism. The Democrat Party and notably the supporters of Biden are fine with Trump's policies, it just his messaging they don't like. As the rich burn down the world for the second time in two decades, the party is coalescing around a guy who not only built his career on one right wing policy after another, but actively opposes tremendously popular policies like Medicare4All. Joe said it himself, nothing will fundamentally change. Well, I heard him loud and clear, and so did many others. We are not the same, I will never vote for Biden.

No we're not the same, and that's fine. You have decided that the revolution (against the DNC, not the pitchforks and fire kind) needs to occur in this moment, and I'm saying that Fake Billionaire over there needs to get up out the paint first before I think that's possible. I have yet to decide how to best apply my talents to aiding in the destruction of the current establishment of the DNC.

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.



Riot Carol Danvers posted:

Imagine Trump without the need to campaign for reelection - four more years of a man who has actively caused the deaths of thousands in the US alone, but without any reason to even pretend to give a gently caress. An administration so craven it thinks kids in cages is fine and that ICE should be it's own army, complete with corporate sponsorships. That's not even counting how badly their incompetence and malice are hurting and killing people during a godamn global pandemic.

You think he's spent the last 4 years doing rallys just for his reelection, and that he'll stop if/when he wins a second term? He'd hold even more of them as a victory lap.

Riot Carol Danvers
Jul 30, 2004

It's super dumb, but I can't stop myself. This is just kind of how I do things.


What I mean is he will have four more years where he isn't tempered even the slightest by the need to run for reelection. It will be a loving firesale of awful.

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.



Oh, yeah. Trump with a mandate is a scary thought. And this time, if he wins he will almost certainly win the popular vote too, not that it matters really, but it'll give him another nice map to look at when he needs a pick-me-up after people are mean to him.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


Proud Christian Mom posted:

Great, lets get it all out.

The Democrat establishment is largely ok with being a permanent minority party and putting up performative resistance to Republican ideals while simultaneously voting for them for token concessions. Incrementalism was only ever to the right, neoliberalism was just a cover to pass Republican policy when the GOP couldn't get the messaging down to do it and both the Clinton and Obama administrations were abject failures for Democrat policies. The Democrat Party refuses to offer up policies that will substantially benefit the people it supposedly represents, and there is no reason to support them while they continue to do so. Bush is Obama is Trump is Biden when it comes to the vast majority of this country who have been sold down the river for decades by the establishment of both parties.

The 'base' of the Democrat Party is predominantly older conservatives who either due to abortion rights or racism can't pull the level for the GOP. They're fine with tax cuts, cutting social programs, a police state, homophobia, runaway defense spending and evangelism. The Democrat Party and notably the supporters of Biden are fine with Trump's policies, it just his messaging they don't like. As the rich burn down the world for the second time in two decades, the party is coalescing around a guy who not only built his career on one right wing policy after another, but actively opposes tremendously popular policies like Medicare4All. Joe said it himself, nothing will fundamentally change. Well, I heard him loud and clear, and so did many others. We are not the same, I will never vote for Biden.

*farts*

Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Apr 7, 2020

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


Speaking of insufferable, the all-caps firestorm of POPULAR VOTE is enough to make me sick to my stomach

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



SquirrelyPSU posted:

I have yet to decide how to best apply my talents to aiding in the destruction of the current establishment of the DNC.

Go to the local poo poo. All of it. I got a seat on the state party executive committe a few weeks ago entirely because I was the only person under 70 at the county convention.

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.



shame on an IGA posted:

Go to the local poo poo. All of it. I got a seat on the state party executive committe a few weeks ago entirely because I was the only person under 70 at the county convention.

Jesus, really?

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



Yeah none of the other 12 people there wanted to commit to driving 90 minutes once a month

e: I feel like that goes a long way to explaining how we got into this loving situation, actually

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 7, 2020

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


I do really believe I should try harder in this area, unfortunately the period of time that I've spent in my 30's unfucking poo poo I did in my 20's is taking a bit. I'm not gonna be ready in time for the general. I know some people in the PA House lobbying community that I plan on hanging out with when I get my poo poo together.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Nap Ghost

I really hope the biden ticket does something to motivate people, because all I can see right now is a red sweep in november.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



sexpig by night posted:

I see you have selected 'find out', a bold choice.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006



yes this is the Biden campaign in a nutshell

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


While living through a pandemic "I'm not really motivated enough to vote for someone who would properly fund and staff the CDC and other essential federal agencies. Like what's in it for me???"

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


While living through a pandemic: "Wow I'll absolutely never look back at how we got here and then rage impotently when I repeat the process all over again"

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


Hah repeat the process over again? I imagine a Trump directed economic recovery will leave people pining for TARP and it's affiliate programs.

What we are seeing is a pretty severe consequence of the Trump administration. It's been by sheer luck alone that the United States hasn't been dragged into another middle eastern war, not for lack of trying. If you think the next 4 years will even brush up against the competency and consideration of the Obama administration then I have a bridge to sell you.

I supported Bernie every way I could, and it's a loving tragedy that he has dropped out. The reality is that things are bad and poised to get much, much worse if Trump gets a second term.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Are people really trotting back out "the choice between lesser evils is still evil"?

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

Hah repeat the process over again? I imagine a Trump directed economic recovery will leave people pining for TARP and it's affiliate programs.

What we are seeing is a pretty severe consequence of the Trump administration. It's been by sheer luck alone that the United States hasn't been dragged into another middle eastern war, not for lack of trying. If you think the next 4 years will even brush up against the competency and consideration of the Obama administration then I have a bridge to sell you.

I supported Bernie every way I could, and it's a loving tragedy that he has dropped out. The reality is that things are bad and poised to get much, much worse if Trump gets a second term.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Are people really trotting back out "the choice between lesser evils is still evil"?

How do you not understand the concept of "I don't want to vote for a sundowning segregationist rapist?"

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


No one does? Being an adult and exercising the franchise involves making decisions that aren't comfortable or easy?

I'm sure the process of fixing the country after Trump appoints 2 more heritage foundation morons to SCOTUS will be a breeze.

In Louisiana there was an election with a famous bumper sticker. It said "vote for the crook. It's important. " The election was between Edwin Edwards and David Duke.

I guess if my home state was as principaled as half the people in this thread we could have had the privilege of having a real life leader of the KKK as the Governor.

Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Apr 8, 2020

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


The President of the United States is just a few degrees of separation away from using a global pandemic as a stick to beat states that don't support him. But yeah, I think how Biden presents on camera is the more pressing topic of analysis. I'm brave.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


A reduction of a decision as essential as who is president to "I don't wanna" certainly gives Boomers a run for their money as to who is more selfish. Jesus Christ.

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Why reply in one post when three will do? While I'm at it, why not completely change my tone from "completely reasonable" to "condescending?"

Jesus Christ you're an insufferable poo poo.

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Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Nap Ghost

I'm going to vote for biden because I understand our two party system. I'm going to make sure everyone I personally know votes because it's important, and I loving hope there are some people worthwhile elsewhere on the ballot I can recommend.

With that said, I do not care for Joe Biden, and I cannot fight for him. I can't argue for him, because I cannot fight for a rapist piece of poo poo. I will not volunteer with the democratic party as I have the past four years because they no longer represent me. I don't genuinely believe that they will win in the fall. The party does not support me and is beholden to the exact same handful of billionaires that are running the republican party.

Good luck calling people selfish assholes for not wanting to support a rapist racist piece of poo poo, though.

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