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Chichevache
Feb 16, 2010

One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.


A Bad Poster posted:

Trump is change, just not for the better for most people on earth.

Know what does need to change and is entirely within the DNC's control? Same day primaries across the country. This slapdash bullshit needs to end, I don't give a gently caress if New Hampshire and Iowa get mad about it. An artificially inflated importance of a segment of an electorate is bad for democracy.

Does the DNC actually have the power to force states to change their primary election days? I thought that was a power held by the state's voters.

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Brute Squad
Dec 20, 2006

Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human race






Dinosaur Gum

PookBear posted:

Yeah but most international conglomerates don't tend to imply they're democratic

Representative democracies are still democracies. The DNC have the same basic setup as literally any large national organization. It gets slightly more granular state-by-state because you need town and borough-level committees to organize GOTV and other local electoral events.

There's a lot of problems with the DNC, but pretending that their organizational structure and by-laws are unique or explicitly designed to be un-democratic is dumb as hell. I read through them, they read like bog standard, robert's rules based, organizing docs. Especially when you're dealing with an organization with millions of members, a super broad scope, and also requires defined leadership at every level of the political process.

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


Brute Squad posted:

Representative democracies are still democracies. The DNC have the same basic setup as literally any large national organization. It gets slightly more granular state-by-state because you need town and borough-level committees to organize GOTV and other local electoral events.

There's a lot of problems with the DNC, but pretending that their organizational structure and by-laws are unique or explicitly designed to be un-democratic is dumb as hell. I read through them, they read like bog standard, robert's rules based, organizing docs. Especially when you're dealing with an organization with millions of members, a super broad scope, and also requires defined leadership at every level of the political process.

Do you really not get the problem with this many layers between dem voters and party leadership? Back before we directly voted on senators, you'd vote for state level senators and then they'd vote on who to send to DC. There is zero loving reason to have this this many layers between voters and national leadership other than to make it incredibly difficult to change the status quo.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Johnny Pussy?


PookBear posted:

Do you really not get the problem with this many layers between dem voters and party leadership? Back before we directly voted on senators, you'd vote for state level senators and then they'd vote on who to send to DC. There is zero loving reason to have this this many layers between voters and national leadership other than to make it incredibly difficult to change the status quo.

This would be a problem if Tom Perez were the Dem nominee for President or holding elected office as a result of this position. He's not though. As it's already been pointed out,

Brute Squad posted:

So, they're like any other national organization or large bureaucracy?

And for all the gnashing of teeth about Perez, he's done surprisingly well as chair. He's been a huge improvement over DWS (which isn't a high bar but even still) and him turning off the money spigot for consultants to go on cable news and parrot talking points and instead focusing that money on GOTV and the ground game is likely the reason why Virginia had two very good statewide elections for Dems. Ditto for 2018's midterms. It caused a lot of whining from talking heads that were upset they suddenly weren't getting paid to go on TV by the DNC but that has since muted itself out due to the aforementioned results.

I don't have any patience either for people whining that Perez is this evil mastermind for not postponing Wisconsin or other state primaries, because shocker, he does not have the power to do so. It's clear as day what he has the ability to control in regards to the Democratic Party and the information on this isn't hidden anywhere but that doesn't stop people from making up talking points to suit their reality.

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


Brute Squad
Dec 20, 2006

Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human race






Dinosaur Gum

PookBear posted:

Do you really not get the problem with this many layers between dem voters and party leadership? Back before we directly voted on senators, you'd vote for state level senators and then they'd vote on who to send to DC. There is zero loving reason to have this this many layers between voters and national leadership other than to make it incredibly difficult to change the status quo.

Do you really not see how this is not a unique problem to the democratic party and a product of decades of parliamentary and procedural work on running organizations efficiently and inexpensively? You have that many layers because you need people working on specific tasks and goals at each of those layers. You have precinct-level leadership so you have party members to work each voting site. You have county and district and state level to organize fundraising and candidate events at their level, and in such a way that you don't have complaints about different subgroups within those not getting equal treatment.

That's not even touching on the difficulties of running a parallel election campaign for leadership at all levels when your primary purpose is electing and supporting people for political office. You are out-of-the-gate doubling the amount of information and decisions your members have to deal with. Members who you can't even reliably get to the polls for your primaries. Or handling voting at a national level in a secure, democratic, and equitable fashion. Because you can't guarantee the use of the state electoral apparatus for your party in every state.

You want to change the status quo of a bureaucracy, you get your members into the bureaucracy and work at it until you own it. Yes, it takes a lot of time, money, and energy, but that's politics. Direct electing a national party chair isn't going to change the status quo of a party's machinery. Not with all the parts in the machinery that have to exist for the party to properly function at all the various election levels in our country, and not when they are still democratically elected by their constituents or constituents representatives.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005



This may be different outside the south but my experience has been that the first 2 or even 3 tiers there are either depopulated or held by people begging anyone else to take over so they can retire, merely showing up can result in a shocking amount of power.

A Bad Poster
Sep 25, 2006
Seriously, shut the fuck up.



shame on an IGA posted:

This may be different outside the south but my experience has been that the first 2 or even 3 tiers there are either depopulated or held by people begging anyone else to take over so they can retire, merely showing up can result in a shocking amount of power.

You could say the same about a voting booth.

LtCol J. Krusinski
May 7, 2013


I was a very low information / politically uninformed supporter of Biden way back.

In my very red state you can just vote the down tickets and your ballot still counts (Pretty sure itís this way everywhere but I dunno, election law is hosed in places) so Iím just going balls deep on learning about all the non POTUS elections like local district judges and poo poo.

There is a tiny part of me that wants to go ďLetís not call him a rapist, there is one unsubstantiated claim of surprise sexĒ but Iíve come to understand all the things wrong not just with that statement but the implications and what have you and with that type of thinking.

Plus ďI donít think X is a YĒ ages like a cat turd, because they somehow seem to keep proving anyone that says that wrong.

To say Iím disappointed about the presidential nominees is an understatement. Again though, deep red trump +40 state here, so his winning here is a foregone conclusion. My not voting for POTUS wonít hurt or help any campaign. Iím not voting for rapey sundowners.

If my vote counted Iíd have a much harder time sitting out a presidential election where trump was the incumbent. I get and feel where you guys who get pissed at those of us who wonít vote Biden with Trump in office are coming from.

Itís a poo poo sandwich.

LtCol J. Krusinski fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Apr 10, 2020

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


shame on an IGA posted:

This may be different outside the south but my experience has been that the first 2 or even 3 tiers there are either depopulated or held by people begging anyone else to take over so they can retire, merely showing up can result in a shocking amount of power.

there's probably some correlation between people working multiple jobs just to survive and lack of younger individuals participating in the local political apparatus but damned if Democrats will ever figure out what it means

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


It means they didn't work hard/save enough or learn to code

Chichevache
Feb 16, 2010

One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.


Proud Christian Mom posted:

there's probably some correlation between people working multiple jobs just to survive and lack of younger individuals participating in the local political apparatus but damned if Democrats will ever figure out what it means

That's not supported by youth voting trends over the last 50 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You...e_United_States

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

I was a very low information / politically uninformed supporter of Biden way back.

In my very red state you can just vote the down tickets and your ballot still counts (Pretty sure itís this way everywhere but I dunno, election law is hosed in places) so Iím just going balls deep on learning about all the non POTUS elections like local district judges and poo poo.

There is a tiny part of me that wants to go ďLetís not call him a rapist, there is one unsubstantiated claim of surprise sexĒ but Iíve come to understand all the things wrong not just with that statement but the implications and what have you and with that type of thinking.

Plus ďI donít think X is a YĒ ages like a cat turd, because they somehow seem to keep proving anyone that says that wrong.

To say Iím disappointed about the presidential nominees is an understatement. Again though, deep red trump +40 state here, so his winning here is a foregone conclusion. My not voting for POTUS wonít hurt or help any campaign. Iím not voting for rapey sundowners.

If my vote counted Iíd have a much harder time sitting out a presidential election where trump was the incumbent. I get and feel where you guys who get pissed at those of us who wonít vote Biden with Trump in office are coming from.

Itís a poo poo sandwich.

holy gently caress the evolution of gip is complete

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


Our elections are also going to become even more of poo poo shows as consultants sell even more technology that 75 year olds don't know how to use to report vote totals.

But that's a separate topic than the olds voting us down the river because they want their racism to be folksy again

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X3UiSvgle0

lol

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020




No, no, no, he said "freeze" not "cut," so just because it won't keep up with the increasing cost of living, it's not really a cut, it just means you don't get a raise in benefits to match increasing cost of living in society this year.

(He's literally the boss from Christmas Vacation)

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


please keep telling me to vote for the guy that was part of ramping up the war in afghanistan and wanting to cut my benefits

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


One day, maybe one day soon, all 50 states electoral systems will take note of your disappoinment. They're sure to blink first. How couldn't they?

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

One day, maybe one day soon, all 50 states electoral systems will take note of your disappoinment. They're sure to blink first. How couldn't they?

What, exactly, do you hope to accomplish by making posts like this at people who have good reason to not like the presumptive Democratic nominee?

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


Do I need to make a separate thread?

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

Do I need to make a separate thread?

No, you need to answer the question.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


These topics seem to bleed into almost every other thread in GiP and I thought this was the place to address them?

There certainty has been multiple regular derailments in the current events thread on this topic without any type of mod intervention. I thought I was doing my part by keeping my replies out of the CE thread.

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

These topics seem to bleed into almost every other thread in GiP and I thought this was the place to address them?

There certainty has been multiple regular derailments in the current events thread on this topic without any type of mod intervention. I thought I was doing my part by keeping my replies out of the CE thread.

You seem to be misunderstanding the central premise of the question, which isn't "why are you posting here?" It's "why are you being an rear end in a top hat about it?"

Which I thought was clear from the original question being "what, exactly, do you hope to accomplish by making posts like this at people who have good reason to not like the presumptive Democratic nominee?" For the record, "posts like this" means being an rear end in a top hat.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


Why am I the only person being asked what they hope to accomplish?

The topic of the thread is literally to discuss the value or lack thereof of voting for Biden, per the first post.

Radio Free Kobold
Aug 11, 2012

"Federal regulations mandate that at least 30% of our content must promote Reptilian or Draconic culture. This is DJ Scratch N' Sniff with the latest mermaid screeching on KBLD..."



Kawasaki Nun posted:

Why am I the only person being asked what they hope to accomplish?

Because you're the only person being an rear end in a top hat in the thread, dummy. Chill.

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

Why am I the only person being asked what they hope to accomplish?

The topic of the thread is literally to discuss the value or lack thereof of voting for Biden, per the first post.

You're the only person in this thread who is absolutely loving insufferable in every single post they make. Your evasions and deflections can stop now, just answer the goddamned question already.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


McNally posted:

You're the only person in this thread who is absolutely loving insufferable in every single post they make. Your evasions and deflections can stop now, just answer the goddamned question already.

I don't have some kind of agenda I think I'm working towards by posting, despite what you want to believe.

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


So you're just an rear end in a top hat, check

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

I don't have some kind of agenda I think I'm working towards by posting, despite what you want to believe.

Gotcha. You're being an rear end in a top hat for its own sake.

Don't post in this thread anymore.

Tythas
Oct 3, 2013

Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars




Kawasaki Nun posted:

I don't have some kind of agenda I think I'm working towards by posting, despite what you want to believe.

were you not taught reading comprehension in school? he's asking why are you antagonizing the thread

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


Redcated

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


Kawasaki Nun posted:

One day, maybe one day soon, all 50 states electoral systems will take note of your disappoinment. They're sure to blink first. How couldn't they?

You keep having this idea that the DNC putting a gun to my head and saying "vote for biden or else" isn't going to have long term repercussions. Do you honestly not understand that telling women that they have to vote for a rapist or minorities that they have to support the candidate that was against busing is going to have long term consequences? Veterans to vote for a VP that escalated the war in Afghanistan? People that were evicted from their houses because the banks that they owed money to got bailed out and not the home owners?

Without using the word trump or republican explain why I should support him

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


PookBear posted:

You keep having this idea that the DNC putting a gun to my head and saying "vote for biden or else" isn't going to have long term repercussions. Do you honestly not understand that telling women that they have to vote for a rapist or minorities that they have have to support the candidate that was against busing is a bad idea? Veterans to vote for a VP that escalated the war in Afghanistan? People that were evicted from their houses because the banks that they owed money to got bailed out and not the home owners?

Without using the word trump or republican explain why I should support him.

Don't expect a response.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

Exciting Lemon

Biden has supported none of the things I want supported at the national level. He's a terrible candidate. Every vote for downticket candidates that doesn't include him is one more chance to politely inform the DNC via ballot that their bullshit is no longer tolerated by a section of the voting population. The bullshit is already not tolerated by a majority of the non-voting population, but according to pollsters and consultants those people don't matter.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


McNally posted:

Don't expect a response.

Just do whatever you're gonna do. Having you breathing down my neck for any post I make isn't really a tenable situation anyway.

I can't express that I find the constant whining about the primary process and the decision that the voters of this country have made tiresome?

Jesus it's a constant topic here and it got old over a month ago. People constantly posting about what they're not going to do isn't really ripe for discussion or much of anything other than constant, useless bitchfests where you have to agree or some idiot mod gets on your case. There is a whole forum where wrong think is expressly punished and naturally it's progressed elsewhere as well.

Pardon the interruption, let's get back to it

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


Kawasaki Nun posted:

Just do whatever you're gonna do. Having you breathing down my neck for any post I make isn't really a tenable situation anyway.

I can't express that I find the constant whining about the primary process and the decision that the voters of this country have made tiresome?

Jesus it's a constant topic here and it got old over a month ago. People constantly posting about what they're not going to do isn't really ripe for discussion or much of anything other than constant, useless bitchfests where you have to agree or some idiot mod gets on your case. There is a whole forum where wrong think is expressly punished and naturally it's progressed elsewhere as well.

Pardon the interruption, let's get back to whining

you honestly can't see the difference between genuine critiques of the political system that is going to result in a general election between two rapists and whining

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


PookBear posted:

you honestly can't see the difference between genuine critiques of the political system that is going to result in a general election between two rapists and whining

I can and do, which is why I have chosen the career I have and volunteer with the institutions I do. I don't continually post about my politics because making the same complaint to the same captive audience on this website doesn't accomplish anything at all, other than generating a really bad thread to read.

Consistently repeating that you're gonna write in a candidate or something like that isn't a discussion, it's a lengthy temper tantrum. And yet that had become the flavor of the month here and elsewhere. A bunch of people continually bemoaning the political procees and stating their intention to do something ineffective in protest. It's not a topic that really requires constant reassertion. Knock yourself out, it's gonna be people other than you that suffer the most significant consequences. But who gives a poo poo right? You have your own bland complaints about how things aren't improving quickly enough for you via the political process.

Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Apr 10, 2020

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Kawasaki Nun posted:

I can't express that I find the constant whining about the primary process and the decision that the voters of this country have made tiresome?

This would have been fine. This isn't what you've been doing.

Anyway, when you get back don't post in here anymore.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006


e; disregard

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SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003

UH OH GEORGE, LOOKS LIKE I'M A BIG DUMBASS!!!

ASK ME ABOUT COMING IN DEAD LAST IN THE GIP 2016 FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!

I LITERALLY CAME IN BEHIND SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T UPDATE THEIR ROSTER ONCE!!!!

YOOOOOGE!!!!


Redacted again

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