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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




Fried green tomatoes went well:

It's summer y'all. Snap beans, sauteed squash and onions, hoecake, fried green mater. Maters maybe could have used some kind of sauce? It was the best damned squash I've ever cooked, and I forgot how good fresh snap beans are just boiled in well salted water. I fried everything in a lard/bacon grease mix and I feel like it upped my frying game 100% vs oil. Everything was crunchy and crispy and brown and not at all greasy.

Had some cute lil baby yellow and pattypan squash from the garden:

Browned onions in bacon grease, and then added squash. Kept it on very high heat to get color on the squash:

It probably would have been best at this point. I stuck it on the back of the stove while I did the green tomatoes and it steamed and got a little mushy, but still one of the best squash things I have ever cooked, especially for having 4 like ingredients.

Hoecakes frying looking so pretty:

Martha white cornmeal mix, and then add roughly equal parts hot water and buttermilk to make a batter. So tasty.

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Croatoan
Jun 24, 2005

I am inevitable.
ROBBLE GROBBLE


Hoecakes are so good. I much prefer them over regular old pancakes. Crepes, I still like equally but pancakes are just so boring for as many calories are in them.

Back to gritchat, I added too much pepper to mine today and now they suck.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Croatoan posted:

Hoecakes are so good. I much prefer them over regular old pancakes. Crepes, I still like equally but pancakes are just so boring for as many calories are in them.

Back to gritchat, I added too much pepper to mine today and now they suck.

i love a good buttermilk pancake. but honestly, one, maybe two, max. i don't need a giant stack.

as for grit issues, why not make more grits and add to them :V

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


mediaphage posted:

i love a good buttermilk pancake. but honestly, one, maybe two, max. i don't need a giant stack.

as for grit issues, why not make more grits and add to them :V

And a little cheese, for good measure

Doom Rooster
Sep 3, 2008



Pillbug

Biscuits and gravy development trip report.

Landed on final* recipes after 22 batches of biscuits, 5 batches of sausage and 8 batches of gravy.

Random thoughts/learnings:

Buttermilk is indeed, absolutely king. We tried an early recipe without, and didn't love it, then tried our final buttermilk recipe with whole milk swapped in and some levener adjustments, and it was "fine", but I would only ever make it if I just straight up could not get my hands on buttermilk.

We ended up using 100% tallow since we have a ton of it and it tasted great. Just about any fat can make a biscuit that is both recognizable as a biscuit, and tasty though. Butter is really the only one that takes special consideration as far as technique goes due to the water content. I even made a batch with unrefined coconut oil as the fat, and it was delicious. Terrible with sausage gravy, but I'll find a good use case for it at some point. Maybe strawberry "shortcake".

Just about every sausage I have ever made, and every legit recipe I have ever seen, calls for ~10% liquid. This is the right call for cased sausages, and even for breakfast sausage you plan on slicing into patties and eating. It's the wrong call for sausage you specifically plan on crumbling and browning though. By the time all of the water is released and cooked off, all of the protein that came out with the water forms a layer on the bottom of the pan and burns before you get any brown on the actual sausage crumbles. This doesn't happen in a nonstick pan, but we only have 8" nonsticks for eggs, and need to make a massive batch in a 22" stainless rondeau.

Normally, I would grind in some backfat or belly to get the fat content of the sausage up to 30%ish, but that would be kind of a pain in the rear end here. I ended up going with straight shoulder, which for crumbling works fine, it just doesn't leave enough grease on its own for roux making. This was a blessing in disguise, because I decided to try supplementing with a little bit of the apple/oak smoked tallow we still had lying around. It's loving incredible. The smoke flavor is pretty volatile, and there's not a TON of it in the gravy to begin with, so after cooking, the gravy didn't taste "smokey", so much as it was just a very pronounced savoriness that was night and day from the other batches. I have 40lbs of brisket trim in the smoker rendering right now to make sure we can keep doing this forever.

I also highly recommend you plan on using a lot of black pepper in your gravy, but split it in half. I found a really positive difference when I bloomed half of the pepper in the sausage/beef fat before adding the flour for the roux.

More detail below, but flour type is much less important than process and fat type. We ended up using Sir Galahad flour in our final recipe, even though it's technically a HIGH protein flour, which is anathema to conventional biscuit wisdom. It's the only flour that we normally use for other applications, so it was great to find that with the rest of my recipe done properly, it was indistinguishable from AP.


*the only thing left to try on the biscuits is to use butter flavored popcorn salt, to see if getting butter flavor while using only tallow, works. I have low expectations, but maybe I'll be surprised.


ThePopeOfFun posted:

I'm going to try out a low protein flour like White Lilly. "Northern" biscuits don't taste the same, because most flour up here has higher protein. Probably worth your time.


mediaphage posted:

If you don’t overwork your dough you really don’t need to track down white lily. I use canadian AP flours (and also whole wheat, even), which are stronger than most US flours, to make my biscuits and they always turn out great.


ThePopeOfFun posted:

I'll have to try out the different flours. I'm pretty convinced a lower protein flour is going to make a difference, even after accounting for technique. Whether that difference is better or not dunno

Mediaphage is right, but there is also a little more to it than just overworking. If you are using butter, which is usually 10-15% water, overworking is a major concern, and should be avoided at all costs. If you are using lard/tallow/shortening/any 100% fat and work it in well before adding buttermilk, it becomes much less of an issue. Our tallow is pretty soft, so it's super easy to really thoroughly coat all of the flour with it, which provides even more insurance against gluten development. After settling on final proportions, I did a large batch that I split into three smaller batches. First batch I made using the standard "mix until it's a shaggy dough, then gently pat it together into shape and cut". The second I purposefully mixed until it was a completely homogeneous dough, then rolled it out into shape. Third batch I straight up kneaded like a wet sourdough bread for a solid two minutes before forming.

Batches 1 and 2 were nearly indistinguishable from each other. Batch 3 was definitely a little tough and dry, but honestly not too bad. This is great because in case of emergency, we can grab a line cook who has never made them before, follow the recipe with just "mix until dough comes together completely, but do not overwork." and still have a great product come out.


ThePopeOfFun posted:

I throw an acid in everything, and I'd throw it in gravy, too. Not enough to pick it out. You could do lemon, vinegar, buttermilk. I guess your biscuits could have it if you went with buttermilk. I just hate boring gravy.

We're not making lemon gravy, lmao. If you didn't know it was there you'd never guess. Just enough to tell your tongue "sour" without adding flavor.


I am definitely familiar with the effect of acids, and their usual benefits. I pulled a half batch of gravy, and did side by sides against the control batch. I did increasing 0.02% increments of citric acid in sub batches. By the time we could even recognize a difference from the control at 0.08%, we didn't like it as much. By 0.1% we really didn't like it. We greatly preferred the only sourness to come from the buttermilk biscuits.

If your cream gravy is boring, it's a problem with the amount of flavor is your sausage, or not enough pepper or salt, not a lack of sourness. With fresh garlic, garlic powder, fresh sage, dried sage, onion powder, red pepper flakes, cayenne, black pepper, salt, sugar and MSG, boring is NOT a word I would use to describe our final product.


All in all, this has been a really fun recipe to develop. Biscuits and gravy has always held a pretty special place in my heart, so I tried to stick to a very traditional flavor profile, but really nail it.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
i like nice words


Did you try ATK's method? You melt the butter, let it cool a minute, then pour into cold buttermilk. The butter turns into tiny bits of slush. The advantage is that you can get all-butter flavor without any risk of overworking it.

Resting Lich Face
Feb 21, 2019


This case of an intraperitoneal zucchini is unusual, and does raise questions as to how hard one has to push a blunt vegetable to perforate the rectum.


Did someone say fried chicken?

ThePopeOfFun
Feb 15, 2010



This is beautiful. I'd read any of your test notes, any time.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Doom Rooster posted:

Biscuits and gravy development trip report.

Landed on final* recipes after 22 batches of biscuits, 5 batches of sausage and 8 batches of gravy.

Random thoughts/learnings:

Buttermilk is indeed, absolutely king. We tried an early recipe without, and didn't love it, then tried our final buttermilk recipe with whole milk swapped in and some levener adjustments, and it was "fine", but I would only ever make it if I just straight up could not get my hands on buttermilk.

We ended up using 100% tallow since we have a ton of it and it tasted great. Just about any fat can make a biscuit that is both recognizable as a biscuit, and tasty though. Butter is really the only one that takes special consideration as far as technique goes due to the water content. I even made a batch with unrefined coconut oil as the fat, and it was delicious. Terrible with sausage gravy, but I'll find a good use case for it at some point. Maybe strawberry "shortcake".

Just about every sausage I have ever made, and every legit recipe I have ever seen, calls for ~10% liquid. This is the right call for cased sausages, and even for breakfast sausage you plan on slicing into patties and eating. It's the wrong call for sausage you specifically plan on crumbling and browning though. By the time all of the water is released and cooked off, all of the protein that came out with the water forms a layer on the bottom of the pan and burns before you get any brown on the actual sausage crumbles. This doesn't happen in a nonstick pan, but we only have 8" nonsticks for eggs, and need to make a massive batch in a 22" stainless rondeau.

Normally, I would grind in some backfat or belly to get the fat content of the sausage up to 30%ish, but that would be kind of a pain in the rear end here. I ended up going with straight shoulder, which for crumbling works fine, it just doesn't leave enough grease on its own for roux making. This was a blessing in disguise, because I decided to try supplementing with a little bit of the apple/oak smoked tallow we still had lying around. It's loving incredible. The smoke flavor is pretty volatile, and there's not a TON of it in the gravy to begin with, so after cooking, the gravy didn't taste "smokey", so much as it was just a very pronounced savoriness that was night and day from the other batches. I have 40lbs of brisket trim in the smoker rendering right now to make sure we can keep doing this forever.

I also highly recommend you plan on using a lot of black pepper in your gravy, but split it in half. I found a really positive difference when I bloomed half of the pepper in the sausage/beef fat before adding the flour for the roux.

More detail below, but flour type is much less important than process and fat type. We ended up using Sir Galahad flour in our final recipe, even though it's technically a HIGH protein flour, which is anathema to conventional biscuit wisdom. It's the only flour that we normally use for other applications, so it was great to find that with the rest of my recipe done properly, it was indistinguishable from AP.


*the only thing left to try on the biscuits is to use butter flavored popcorn salt, to see if getting butter flavor while using only tallow, works. I have low expectations, but maybe I'll be surprised.




Mediaphage is right, but there is also a little more to it than just overworking. If you are using butter, which is usually 10-15% water, overworking is a major concern, and should be avoided at all costs. If you are using lard/tallow/shortening/any 100% fat and work it in well before adding buttermilk, it becomes much less of an issue. Our tallow is pretty soft, so it's super easy to really thoroughly coat all of the flour with it, which provides even more insurance against gluten development. After settling on final proportions, I did a large batch that I split into three smaller batches. First batch I made using the standard "mix until it's a shaggy dough, then gently pat it together into shape and cut". The second I purposefully mixed until it was a completely homogeneous dough, then rolled it out into shape. Third batch I straight up kneaded like a wet sourdough bread for a solid two minutes before forming.

Batches 1 and 2 were nearly indistinguishable from each other. Batch 3 was definitely a little tough and dry, but honestly not too bad. This is great because in case of emergency, we can grab a line cook who has never made them before, follow the recipe with just "mix until dough comes together completely, but do not overwork." and still have a great product come out.


I am definitely familiar with the effect of acids, and their usual benefits. I pulled a half batch of gravy, and did side by sides against the control batch. I did increasing 0.02% increments of citric acid in sub batches. By the time we could even recognize a difference from the control at 0.08%, we didn't like it as much. By 0.1% we really didn't like it. We greatly preferred the only sourness to come from the buttermilk biscuits.

If your cream gravy is boring, it's a problem with the amount of flavor is your sausage, or not enough pepper or salt, not a lack of sourness. With fresh garlic, garlic powder, fresh sage, dried sage, onion powder, red pepper flakes, cayenne, black pepper, salt, sugar and MSG, boring is NOT a word I would use to describe our final product.


All in all, this has been a really fun recipe to develop. Biscuits and gravy has always held a pretty special place in my heart, so I tried to stick to a very traditional flavor profile, but really nail it.

This is all great dude, nice job.

It's funny because it looks like we add basically almost the exact same stuff in the sausage gravy. I like that you settled on using a lot of black pepper in the gravy as I think it's wonderful, and like you I tend to add it twice. Do you actually bother making sausage, or do you just add a bunch of that to fresh pork as you cook it? Done right, I'm not convinced there's a real big difference when you're using it to make crumbles / gravy.

In terms of biscuits, nice that you nailed it down. Have you tried using buttermilk powder? I haven't done a side-by-side, but I will say it still makes a good biscuit, and since I don't always have buttermilk right on hand, it's nice to have in the pantry. In that vein, you might consider also adding butter powder if you're looking for the butter flavour without the risk of water. Or I wonder if you could just clarify butter / use ghee, and add milk powder if you really needed more of the milk protein flavour.

I tend to do the frozen butter add, which I find really keeps things from getting overworked, but it can be a pain and I dunno how easy it would be in a production environment.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012





To get the flakey biscuits I tend to laminate the dough in like 5 layers after I fold in the peas of butter

pleasecallmechrist
Sep 22, 2013

I lack the most basic processes inherent in all living organisms: reproducing and dying.

Alright y'all. Came a bit to the thread but I can effort post like a mofo on this one. Learned to cook from my TN and GA grandmother's. Still live round here. All my love to anyone who opens their table to others.

Cookbook recommendations:

The Southerner's Cookbook-Garden & Gun
-this is and the following are my babies. Best cookbooks I have. Sourced from cooks and chefs throughout the South. This is divided by food group with gorgeous pictures of regions throughout the south. Southern staples to dinner parties though make no mistake this is for the homecook.

United Tastes of the South-Jessica Dupuy
-very similar to the above but divided by Southern region with food groups inside of each respectively. Once again beautiful pictures anecdotes and recipes galore all for the home cook. These first two entries aren't intellectualy stimulating as much as big beautiful delicious cookbooks that can silence anyone who would say the South isnt one of if not the most beautiful part of the US. Food- landscape or otherwise.

Georgia Entertains-Margaret Wait DeBolt
-a community Cookbook from a different time. The kind where people took being a housewife and its corresponding knowledge (think of the legendary Picayune Creole Cookbook) where recipes include notes like this is good for children or how to make various punches and home remedies and a sort of knowledge that is fascinating and delicious and is absolutely for home use and makes you realize that we have created a massive blindspot for basic knowledge. Great dishes and desserts, simple and elegant.

The Glory of Southern Cooking-James Villas
-the author tells how this book begins in the foreword and he is explaining to his Yankee food magazine editor that he believes Southern food to be as complete, complex, varied and beautiful a cuisine as French or Italian and maybe even Chinese, and he would like to prove it. This book does exactly that. With small anecdotes on the origin and tale of each recipe with small asides this book travels the South and brings some of the most varied and beautiful dishes we have to light. Definitely had the staples but make no mistake this man has been to dinner parties and has developed taste. Never snooty or arrogant, simply educated on what good food can and should be and a passion for it when he finds it.

Classical Southern Cooking-Damon Lee Fowler
-Fowler is a food historian and this book does exactly that. Investigates the origins of Southern food, traditional techniques as well as provide recipes for those who want to know as traditional a way as possible.

Soul Food-Joyce White
-a collection of recipes and stories from the potlucks of black churches throughout out the South and general USA. Down home cooking with cultural differences and insights on full display. Delicious too

Pickles, Pigs and Whiskey-John Currence
-founder of city Market, this one is probably the most "chefy" but it's still down to earth with some good ideas and changes to traditional fare

The Southern Junior League Cookbook
-all home cooks should know junior league. It is a community collection of community women and their recipes. They do lean toward the more middle to upper class rather than country but with the availability of ingredients now there isn't much difference. Each city has their cookbooks, some of which are legendary, and the most popular and revered recipes are collected in regional versions. This is the South's.

Most of these if not all can be found abebooks. They're also very good for finding junior league cookbooks of all regions. Pretty cool to see how Arkansas might make different dishes than Virginia or New Orleans vs Lafayette.

If you want true down home country style cooking, look at YouTube.

I will get to my recipes n opinions on thread questions a little later but wanted to at least put these books out there. If you are new to Southern food then welcome to you and I hope you feel the love n value that goes into this food. To all my Southern folk, y'all come.

pleasecallmechrist
Sep 22, 2013

I lack the most basic processes inherent in all living organisms: reproducing and dying.

Just my opinions:

Cornbread is crumbly, savory, dark on the outside. That Jiffy poo poo is northern corn muffins and is basically cake. It's delicious in a bowl with milk.but it doesn't count and ain't Southern

For tomatoes to be fried they should almost be white at the top. A little green at the bottom is okay. Slice, wash in water, dredge both sides in your breading mix (I like straight Marth White) and shallow fry in a skillet. Adding little fork tines of crisco around each to fry evenly. Watching my mom do this shows she had the patience of Job and is more relaxing than Bob Ross

Hell yes to all recommendations for squash. Fry em in butter, pickle them or put them in succotash with other summer garden vegetables.

For the one that hasn't been discussed, and the uninitiated, if you are cooking pole/green/snap/etc beans, especially canned, Southern style, you put some onion, Seasoning salt, most often a hock (though is prefer that in my black eyed peas) in a pot with those and some water or stock and you boil those bastards down with a vengeance until there isnt hardly a drop of liquid in the pot. You never knew those beans had so much umami til you try that.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


pleasecallmechrist posted:

That Jiffy poo poo is northern corn muffins and is basically cake. It's delicious in a bowl with milk.but it doesn't count and ain't Southern

lol

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

pleasecallmechrist posted:

Alright y'all. Came a bit to the thread but I can effort post like a mofo on this one. Learned to cook from my TN and GA grandmother's. Still live round here. All my love to anyone who opens their table to others.

Cookbook recommendations:

The Southerner's Cookbook-Garden & Gun


Slight aside, but anybody interested in the south needs to check out Garden & Gun. I love it because it perfectly encapsulates the south to me - it's got a good appreciation of high & lowbrow southern culture, it's got a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek awareness of the poo poo that's nuts about the south, and it's willing to call out the things that need to change but it's also got a massive amount of straight presentation of stuff that's batshit insane but the editors don't necessarily seem to realize it.

They had a writeup of bourbon that dug into the differences between Pappy Van Winkle and Weller that was built around a bourbon tasting organized by a local chef that involved roughly a dozen people drinking 24 bottles of bourbon over the course of about eight hours and then going out to get hosed up *afterwards*.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




What are quick southern-ish meat/protein dishes that come to mind?

I sear a ham steak real quick sometimes, but I'd love some more ideas for things to eat with my million vegetables.

Snapbeans with onions and bacon grease, butterbeans, and a kind of lame smothered chicken breast tonight.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

What are quick southern-ish meat/protein dishes that come to mind?

I sear a ham steak real quick sometimes, but I'd love some more ideas for things to eat with my million vegetables.

Snapbeans with onions and bacon grease, butterbeans, and a kind of lame smothered chicken breast tonight.

Can make lots of stuff with a sausage.

I think we should knock off the cornbread gatekeeping, there's very little more annoying, especially because we can break down cornbread along all sorts of lines, including class, region, and ethnicity. The biggest reason many traditional cornbreads never had sugar - aside from cost / availability questions - is a) because they used naturally sweeter cornmeal and b) they kept a bottle of molasses or syrup on the table to drizzle it in. really the end effect is the same. just like some people will make cornbread with 100% corn, some with whole wheat, some with white flour, etc. it doesn't have to be this big, monolithic concept.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
i like nice words


Imo the way to get a quick dinner is to batch cook on the weekend (or whenever you have time). You can make a bunch of ribs, smothered pork chops, stewed chicken & rice, whatever, and then it's super fast to reheat alongside a vegetable.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Less quick but if you don't need it right away I'm a big fan of braising everything together in a pot. Very very little active effort so it can do it's thing. Lots of southernish stuff works great as a braise.

Even if you can't portion out all your proteins ahead of time, doing some batches of stuff like a cooked down red sauce, a bowl of caramelized onions, etc., can make for complex meals quickly - just add a handful of this or that to your rice or potatoes, say.

mediaphage fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jun 30, 2020

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

What are quick southern-ish meat/protein dishes that come to mind?

I sear a ham steak real quick sometimes, but I'd love some more ideas for things to eat with my million vegetables.

Snapbeans with onions and bacon grease, butterbeans, and a kind of lame smothered chicken breast tonight.

Generically, I'd say chicken-fried whatever you've got, pan-grilled pork or beef with veggies cooked in the grease, any meat stewed with greens are all pretty typical southern (not solely southern of course, but typical dinner food).

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


pleasecallmechrist posted:

Just my opinions:

Cornbread is crumbly, savory, dark on the outside. That Jiffy poo poo is northern corn muffins and is basically cake. It's delicious in a bowl with milk.but it doesn't count and ain't Southern


Lol what

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




All Cornbread Is Delicious. We should celebrate our differences and not let them divide us!


We must present a united front against the real enemy- people who call a Coke Ďpopí and think mayonnaise is gross.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Hard agree, and besides it's not like regional food doesn't tack elsewhere over time. You can sub just about any cornbread variety for any other - sweet, cakey yellow is still delicious with a pot of beans and some collards - so at the end of the day people should eat the stuff they like to eat. I do advise everyone to try another way of doing it, though, as you never know what you might discover.

I'll confess...I don't like mayo on things. Only in things. I might dip fries in aioli or tartar sauce.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Nth agree that food purist debates are just dick-waving, eat what tastes good to you.

This is currently my go-to recipe for cornmeal, which the author presents as a kind of cornbread but to me is closer to a pupusa - it's skillet-fried cornmeal mush, and if you do it right it's a killer base for beans or greens.

https://slate.com/culture/2014/07/hoecakes-recipe-and-history-how-the-southern-cornbread-got-its-name.html

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012





mediaphage posted:

Hard agree, and besides it's not like regional food doesn't tack elsewhere over time. You can sub just about any cornbread variety for any other - sweet, cakey yellow is still delicious with a pot of beans and some collards - so at the end of the day people should eat the stuff they like to eat. I do advise everyone to try another way of doing it, though, as you never know what you might discover.

I'll confess...I don't like mayo on things. Only in things. I might dip fries in aioli or tartar sauce.

Making a batch of chicken and dressing with super sweet corn bread tastes really strange (I did it) but other than that agreed

pleasecallmechrist
Sep 22, 2013

I lack the most basic processes inherent in all living organisms: reproducing and dying.

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

What are quick southern-ish meat/protein dishes that come to mind?

I sear a ham steak real quick sometimes, but I'd love some more ideas for things to eat with my million vegetables.

Snapbeans with onions and bacon grease, butterbeans, and a kind of lame smothered chicken breast tonight.

Shrimp in all its forms is quick. Filets of any fish. Grilled trout, crappie, catfish, blue gill. Switch the smothered chicken out for smothered pork chops. Broiled pork chops with broiled brussel sprouts is nice. My mom always used Dale's for pork chops so I'm under the impression that it is a Southern marinade. Salisbury steak is also quintessential. Smoked two whole chickens last night.

My garden is producing like mad right now. Been canning pole beans like crazy. Any pickled squash recipes are welcome. I also have a metric poo poo ton of chili peppers so besides pickling them and making pepper vinegar, y'all have any ideas?

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


Pickled squash recipes would be good too. Garden is just pumping out the 1st ones and looks like there'll be lots there.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

pleasecallmechrist posted:

I also have a metric poo poo ton of chili peppers so besides pickling them and making pepper vinegar, y'all have any ideas?

This is more south Asian than the American South, but I love sambal in all its forms and I always make a jar when the garden comes in. If you google sambal recipe you'll get a million of them, but they all boil down to chili + aromatics + oil + umami sauce, and it's really up to you what variation and what amount you want for all of that. I usually go with a paste made from a handful of dried bird peppers, a few fresh garden peppers of whatever type, 2-3 cloves of raw garlic, some olive oil, and a splash of braggs and some rice vinegar and some salt all roughly chopped in a food processor. Other common recipes include frying onion and garlic first, using fish sauce or dried shrimp as well, adding sweeteners or coconut milk, and/or roasting the peppers. It's pretty mix-and-match, so experiment until you find what works for you personally. Then add it liberally to anything.

See: https://www.chilipeppermadness.com/chili-pepper-recipes/sauces/sambal-oelek-recipe/; https://www.nyonyacooking.com/recipes/sambal-nasi-lemak~HkVJdwiPMcZ7

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


pleasecallmechrist posted:

Shrimp in all its forms is quick. Filets of any fish. Grilled trout, crappie, catfish, blue gill. Switch the smothered chicken out for smothered pork chops. Broiled pork chops with broiled brussel sprouts is nice. My mom always used Dale's for pork chops so I'm under the impression that it is a Southern marinade. Salisbury steak is also quintessential. Smoked two whole chickens last night.

My garden is producing like mad right now. Been canning pole beans like crazy. Any pickled squash recipes are welcome. I also have a metric poo poo ton of chili peppers so besides pickling them and making pepper vinegar, y'all have any ideas?

If you haven't considered, you should totally do some lacto fermentation on those peppers if you're just doing vinegar quick pickles. Obviously a variety of hot sauces can arise: not really southern, but an easy fresh one you can do is peri peri; just needs a few hot peppers, onion, lemon, and salt (garlic + everything else delicious but optional). Do you have a smoker setup at all? Chiles do great smoked. Stuff them and fry (or don't), char and serve fresh with breakfast, lunch, or dinner.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




If pork fat and dairy were vegan, I could totally do it.



Really needed some cornbread but I didnít want to turn the oven on because itís still 83 outside

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

We are all drinking from the highball glass of ideology.

Those peas look legit. Greens too. Hell it all looks good.

And you know, this is something that a lot of people who only see the bbq and fried stuff don't understand - proper southern cookery is primarily a vegetable cuisine. I mean, meat and three, or whole meals made of beans and cornmeal, the presence of a million and a half days to stew tough leaves. I would love it if that part of the cuisine got more credit.

Mr. Wiggles fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Aug 13, 2020

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Earlier in this thread, someone stated that grits were "just polenta". This is untrue, though there are of course similarities between the dishes. The big difference is that the dish known as "grits" in the American south, historically and traditionally, is not made with corn grits but rather with hominy grits. In my view this is not just a piece of trivia to be pedantic about on the internet. Remember that southern cooking -- again, historically -- is more a cuisine of poverty and deprivation than of wealth and choice.

Hominy, in case you're unfamiliar, is maize which has been processed by boiling in an alkalai solution. Commonly lime, but sometimes lye. This process was discovered by the Aztecs, and is known as nixtamalization because "nixtamal" is the Nahuatl word for hominy. And where southerners ground hominy to the fineness of grits and made a porridge, Mesoamericans ground it finer to produce something else you probably know and love: masa.

So why would you do this to corn? Two big, useful reasons. One is:

Wikipedia posted:

...the alkalinity helps the dissolution of hemicellulose, the major glue-like component of the maize cell walls, and loosens the hulls from the kernels and softens the maize. Some of the corn oil is broken down into emulsifying agents (monoglycerides and diglycerides), while bonding of the maize proteins to each other is also facilitated. The divalent calcium in lime acts as a cross-linking agent for protein and polysaccharide acidic side chains.[3] As a result, while cornmeal made from untreated ground maize is unable by itself to form a dough on addition of water, the chemical changes in masa allow dough formation.
But the other is even more important when maize is a staple starch in your diet:

quote:

The nixtamalization process was very important in the early Mesoamerican diet, as unprocessed maize is deficient in free niacin. A population that depends on untreated maize as a staple food risks malnourishment and is more likely to develop deficiency diseases such as pellagra, niacin deficiency, or kwashiorkor, the absence of certain amino acids that maize is deficient in. Maize cooked with lime or other alkali provided niacin to Mesoamericans. Beans provided the otherwise missing amino acids required to balance maize for complete protein.
...
In the United States, European settlers did not always adopt the nixtamalization process, except in the case of hominy grits, though maize became a staple among the poor of the southern states. This led to endemic pellagra in poor populations throughout the southern US in the early 20th century.
Oops!

Today, in the era of industrialized baking, where B vitamin complex is sprayed onto every wheat product, the average American isn't doesn't have to worry about niacin deficiency. But as someone who enjoys history and views food as probably the least lovely and most shareable thing about my southern cultural inheritance, I'm sad that not many people (even in the south) seem to know this.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


mdxi posted:

Earlier in this thread, someone stated that grits were "just polenta". This is untrue, though there are of course similarities between the dishes. The big difference is that the dish known as "grits" in the American south, historically and traditionally, is not made with corn grits but rather with hominy grits. In my view this is not just a piece of trivia to be pedantic about on the internet. Remember that southern cooking -- again, historically -- is more a cuisine of poverty and deprivation than of wealth and choice.

Hominy, in case you're unfamiliar, is maize which has been processed by boiling in an alkalai solution. Commonly lime, but sometimes lye. This process was discovered by the Aztecs, and is known as nixtamalization because "nixtamal" is the Nahuatl word for hominy. And where southerners ground hominy to the fineness of grits and made a porridge, Mesoamericans ground it finer to produce something else you probably know and love: masa.

So why would you do this to corn? Two big, useful reasons. One is:

But the other is even more important when maize is a staple starch in your diet:

Oops!

Today, in the era of industrialized baking, where B vitamin complex is sprayed onto every wheat product, the average American isn't doesn't have to worry about niacin deficiency. But as someone who enjoys history and views food as probably the least lovely and most shareable thing about my southern cultural inheritance, I'm sad that not many people (even in the south) seem to know this.

you are correct, though i find the tone of this post weird

regardless most places i see serving grits today (and in my family growing up) hominy grits is held as a dish distinct from standard grits regardless of what they are historically. i imagine today it's probably regional as to whether you're getting hominy grits or cornmeal grits when you order.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Dinner tonight was chicken-fried chicken, fried pickled okra with some whole garlic cloves thrown in for variety, and rice with nuoc cham. I was out of milk so no cream gravy this time around, but some local hot sauce worked just fine. Despite the weird cut, the chicken is just one breast, halved. Oil was a little hot and I was using a pan so some spots came out dark, but it was still great.




God, I love okra. I pickled some the other week and it is excellent straight out of the jar too.

toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


Dinner tonight:


Collard greens and field peas/succotash.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Safety Factor posted:


God, I love okra. I pickled some the other week and it is excellent straight out of the jar too.

I am so pissed at myself - I've lost about half my garden yield this year by waiting too long so they got woody and inedible. I kept thinking "nah, that's too small and I'll give it a day" and then they're too big.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

If pork fat and dairy were vegan, I could totally do it.



Really needed some cornbread but I didnít want to turn the oven on because itís still 83 outside

Iíve been eating this same pot of peas and pot of greens for 8 days now with some cornbread and hoecakes and itís literally the best $8 I have ever spent.

Xun
Apr 25, 2010



Noob at baking here, how critical is Crisco for biscuits? I have easy access to butter and lard but getting Crisco would involve an out of the way trip to a specialty store. I see it all the time in biscuit recipes and my attempts at making biscuits never come out quite right. Although we do have issues with our crappy oven compounding things

Dead Of Winter
Dec 17, 2003

It's morning again in America.

Xun posted:

Noob at baking here, how critical is Crisco for biscuits? I have easy access to butter and lard but getting Crisco would involve an out of the way trip to a specialty store. I see it all the time in biscuit recipes and my attempts at making biscuits never come out quite right. Although we do have issues with our crappy oven compounding things

Itís not. You can use butter or lard in its place.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


Xun posted:

Noob at baking here, how critical is Crisco for biscuits? I have easy access to butter and lard but getting Crisco would involve an out of the way trip to a specialty store.

Crisco was basically the 1960s substitute for lard, so you should be good to go. For some more details: https://sweets.seriouseats.com/2010/05/how-to-make-a-flaky-pie-crust-recipe.html

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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




I used to just use crisco, now I use crisco, butter, and lard In about equal parts. Iíve done all lard and all butter, but I prefer all lard to all butter. Butter makes tougher biscuits or something in my experience. Theyíre not bad, theyíre just not melt in your mouth tender southern biscuits.

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