Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«15 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Warthur
May 2, 2004

WEIRD LOOKIN' DICK

Blockhouse posted:

My favorite part of these comments is the guy who starts off being sort of sympathetic to Zak and then slowly realizes he's talking to a malignant narcissist
Also known as "Most people who have tried to be friendly with Zak". Do I recall that even RPGPundit has cut ties with him?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Pundit partially cut ties because Zak still fronts as a leftist and therefore can't openly support things like gamergate, the way Pundit does.

Kemper Boyd
Aug 6, 2007

no kings, no gods, no masters but a comfy chair and no socks


Nuns with Guns posted:

Pundit partially cut ties because Zak still fronts as a leftist and therefore can't openly support things like gamergate, the way Pundit does.

I actually think Zak doesn't do GG because GG rejected him back in the day.

Warthur
May 2, 2004

WEIRD LOOKIN' DICK

Nuns with Guns posted:

Pundit partially cut ties because Zak still fronts as a leftist and therefore can't openly support things like gamergate, the way Pundit does.

Pundit went full Trumpist too, didn't he? Odd that Zak Smith AKA Zak Sabbath AKA Zak S. doesn't identify more with Trump, seeing how they have so much in common (abusers who use their wealth to try and exert a chilling effect on criticism and who have absolutely bugshit online personas).

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Kemper Boyd posted:

I actually think Zak doesn't do GG because GG rejected him back in the day.

Not sure about that... given the kind of people who became leading voices for GG, I don't think it's possible to be rejected by them

Warthur posted:

Pundit went full Trumpist too, didn't he? Odd that Zak Smith AKA Zak Sabbath AKA Zak S. doesn't identify more with Trump, seeing how they have so much in common (abusers who use their wealth to try and exert a chilling effect on criticism and who have absolutely bugshit online personas).

Yep, Pundit happily embraced the alt-right since it was a more mainstream version of exactly what he'd been espousing for years anyway.

Kemper Boyd
Aug 6, 2007

no kings, no gods, no masters but a comfy chair and no socks


Nuns with Guns posted:

Not sure about that... given the kind of people who became leading voices for GG, I don't think it's possible to be rejected by them

This was like six? years back, but I distinctly remember GG'rs going all "why are you trying to drag us into your beefs" at Zak, which is nothing short of amazing.

Warthur
May 2, 2004

WEIRD LOOKIN' DICK

Nuns with Guns posted:

Not sure about that... given the kind of people who became leading voices for GG, I don't think it's possible to be rejected by them
I think it's more a case that Zak had built his reputation on D&D With Porn Stars, and put a lot of energy into being the cool quasi-feminist gamer who did alt-porn and who knew how to relate to the titular Porn Stars way better than typical gamer dorks would because he was just that much of a cool sex-positive feminist (where "sex-positive feminism" is redefined as "feminism which does not criticise the type of art I make or the industry I work in for any reason", and all other flavours of feminism - sex-positive or otherwise - is redefined as Tipper Gore bullshit).

Gamergate is a campaign based on:
a) screaming about feminism Going Too Far,
b) adamantly defending sexualised content in games,
c) shaming people for sexual behaviour (real or imagined), and
d) creating an Us and Them in the minds of its advocates, in which less-than-conservatives hairstyles or hair colours were very much framed as a characteristic of Them.

This screwed Zak when it came to him engaging with GG. He was super-keen on b), but his past positions on a), c), and d) meant that there was no real prospect of him making any headway in that scene.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Slimnoid posted:



Truly the mind of a balanced individual and not someone who shits his pants on a regular basis.

loving av/post combo magic right here

edit: here, so you don't all have to page back to find it:

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018


i look forward to his attempts to serve papers on twitter and SA user names

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011


That Old Tree posted:

I could've sworn some Kickstarter collaborator of Zak's was like "look, I can't kick him out and I can't just scrap this whole thing, but I wash my hands of this bullshit and I'm sorry." I guess that wasn't this Evans guy, though? Or did he change his mind thanks to Zak's amazing ability to poo poo all over a comments section as if they were his pants?

That was Patrick Stuart who got linked with the false machine stuff earlier I think.

Goons Are Great
Nov 24, 2013

Please drink responsibly



I wonder if he realizes that there are countries out there where you cannot just sue someone for being mean, but I'm sure he will figure out when he hires swarms of international lawyers all over the place to sue everyone on SA.

Conskill
May 7, 2007

I got an 'F' in Geometry.


Goons Are Great posted:

I wonder if he realizes that there are countries out there where you cannot just sue someone for being mean, but I'm sure he will figure out when he hires swarms of international lawyers all over the place to sue everyone on SA.

If he's wise, he'll step back, observe that trying to litigate everyone who's ever said anything mean to him is going to just going to increasing expand the circle of people talking about him making GBS threads himself in a Chick-fil-A as the least of his concerns for years if not the rest of his life, and quietly reassess his plans.

...

Oh, right.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Mors Rattus posted:

i look forward to his attempts to serve papers on twitter and SA user names

It's super funny because there are countries with absolute bullshit defamation laws, like obviously wherever Ettin lives and East Asia (where you can be sued for defamation for posting anything negative about anyone, even with verifiable proof that everything you said is 100% true), but those of us in the US? Good loving luck there, shitpants. The US sucks but in this particular instance, its laws are very good and correct.

GreenMetalSun
Oct 11, 2012


Tibalt posted:

"They'll pay! They will ALL PAY! PAY FOR WHAT THEY DID TO ME!"

"Sir, this is a Chickfila bathroom"

Bold of you to assume this is happening in a bathroom.

S.D.
Apr 28, 2008


I can't recall what thread I read it in, but someone suggested that this thread should go on a forum tour, ala the chickencheese thread of yore. I think it's only fair to everyone involved that everyone see Ettin's apology and to find out that Zak S/Zak Sabbath/Zak Smith is a litigious rapist and pant shitter.

That in fact reminds me that there was a GBS thread that involved Zak posing as his ex that everyone shouted him down in? Doe anyone else recall that one?

Edit: also here's a link to said ex's gofundme page. https://www.gofundme.com/f/gxywr5-legal-funds Zak is suing her for talking about how he abused her.

S.D. fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 12, 2020

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006



when says accountability he doesn't just mean lawsuits, obviously, only an utter fool would think that.

quote:

It's wild that you think after all this time I don't know how much lawsuits cost.

But "accountabilty" doesn't just mean lawsuits. For example: you said you'd apologize for your false accusations under certain circumstances. That is a form of accountability.

----

For the record, these kinds of conversations make it very clear to me why so many RPG people believe pretty much any gibberish. They either don't read or don't understand what words mean.

Like a person who blandly assumes "accountability" must only mean "lawsuit" and has to repeatedly have the definition of "everyone" explained to them is the kind of person who won't be able to evaluate any kind of written document.

It's no wonder I posted all that evidence and pointed out all those flaws in Mandy's story and it just went over your head.

The remaining mystery is: what do people like you -get- out of RPG books? Pretty much all that's in them is very precise words with very precise meanings. Do you spend the whole game going "what do they mean by 'armor class;'?
i'd expected goons to be smart enouhg to comprehend his masterful use of the term accountability but apparently it is goons who are the true posters

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


S.D. posted:

I can't recall what thread I read it in, but someone suggested that this thread should go on a forum tour, ala the chickencheese thread of yore. I think it's only fair to everyone involved that everyone see Ettin's apology and to find out that Zak S/Zak Sabbath/Zak Smith is a litigious rapist and pant shitter.

That in fact reminds me that there was a GBS thread that involved Zak posing as his ex that everyone shouted him down in? Doe anyone else recall that one?

Edit: also here's a link to said ex's gofundme page. https://www.gofundme.com/f/gxywr5-legal-funds Zak is suing her for talking about how he abused her.

As soon as this hits CSPAM, this thread will explode.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Mitchell spread hands and smile alike. "Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured."



College Slice


Oh no! My criminal record!

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Kemper Boyd posted:

This was like six? years back, but I distinctly remember GG'rs going all "why are you trying to drag us into your beefs" at Zak, which is nothing short of amazing.

Warthur posted:

I think it's more a case that Zak had built his reputation on D&D With Porn Stars, and put a lot of energy into being the cool quasi-feminist gamer who did alt-porn and who knew how to relate to the titular Porn Stars way better than typical gamer dorks would because he was just that much of a cool sex-positive feminist (where "sex-positive feminism" is redefined as "feminism which does not criticise the type of art I make or the industry I work in for any reason", and all other flavours of feminism - sex-positive or otherwise - is redefined as Tipper Gore bullshit).

Gamergate is a campaign based on:
a) screaming about feminism Going Too Far,
b) adamantly defending sexualised content in games,
c) shaming people for sexual behaviour (real or imagined), and
d) creating an Us and Them in the minds of its advocates, in which less-than-conservatives hairstyles or hair colours were very much framed as a characteristic of Them.

This screwed Zak when it came to him engaging with GG. He was super-keen on b), but his past positions on a), c), and d) meant that there was no real prospect of him making any headway in that scene.

That's fair, I could see him washing out because he tried to Personal Army it or just didn't fit in well enough.

S.D. posted:

I can't recall what thread I read it in, but someone suggested that this thread should go on a forum tour, ala the chickencheese thread of yore. I think it's only fair to everyone involved that everyone see Ettin's apology and to find out that Zak S/Zak Sabbath/Zak Smith is a litigious rapist and pant shitter.

That in fact reminds me that there was a GBS thread that involved Zak posing as his ex that everyone shouted him down in? Doe anyone else recall that one?

Edit: also here's a link to said ex's gofundme page. https://www.gofundme.com/f/gxywr5-legal-funds Zak is suing her for talking about how he abused her.

That GBS thread actually kind of sucked and the attention it gave Zak led to him starting another round of harassment on people he's already driven off the forums. Zak didn't post in that though, it was GBS 2.0 posters "laughing" at a post Zak probably wrote under Mandy's name on Mandy's tumblr about being a chainmail bikini feminist and how SA sucks, with proof of this being a screenshot of a post from a gassed GBS 2.0 thread where a poster said "looks like that whore got n****red". Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he posted that in hopes he could bait some of the shittier subforums into validating assertions that SA are nothing but hateful trolls whose complaints against him are nothing but smears from jealous reactionaries.

Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Apr 12, 2020

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine


Yeah the GBS thread and associated fallout is a loving strong argument that this thread should stay put instead of just digging up more harassment for people who don't even post here anymore.

Fsmhunk
Jul 19, 2012

Megatron is a wimp!


As a Canadian I would like to say I certainly hope nothing bad happens to Zak. I really hope nobody does anything bad to him, up to and including causing him injuries incompaitable with life. I, in all good faith hope that he doesn't contract Covid-19, and die from complications. It would be very bad if a deragned former associate where to do something to him.

Dragonmaw
Mar 3, 2010

Dr. Funk's
House o' Love


One of the funniest Zak Smith pathologies is his inability to back down from a fight but his desire to seem above it all so he replies to every single comment with some copypasta to show how not mad he is.





He could literally just be quiet and let it all go away, or express even fake contrition to assure the fence-sitters, but no, goddamnit, the world HAS RULES and YOU MUST ABIDE BY THE RULES and I DEFINE WHAT THE RULES ARE.

It's also the clearest tell that someone is a Zak sockpuppet because he's literally incapable of suppressing this behavior, for whatever reason.

No wonder all his RPGs suck.

Dragonmaw fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 12, 2020

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013


I honestly have to wonder what sort of hosed up thought process you need to try to lawyer people into thinking you're cool, and also think anyone would ever "sign a legal document" for anything besides like contracts. Though the latter is probably just another attempt to bully people into silence, it would be much funnier if Zak was just constantly pestering his lawyer with requests for "legal documents" writing up his every opinion and statement.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Terrible Opinions posted:

I honestly have to wonder what sort of hosed up thought process you need to try to lawyer people into thinking you're cool, and also think anyone would ever "sign a legal document" for anything besides like contracts. Though the latter is probably just another attempt to bully people into silence, it would be much funnier if Zak was just constantly pestering his lawyer with requests for "legal documents" writing up his every opinion and statement.
To be honest I think that the burning emotional Need is what is in the driver's seat, all the linguistic and rationalization stuff is just in service to that. It really probably is not a pleasant experience and while I must condemn his history of pants-making GBS threads and sexual abuse, I hope that as a fellow human being, the guy gets out of it - or gets himself some help.

Like, wouldn't it better to be able to enjoy your revenge, Zak?

iospace
Jan 19, 2038




Fun Shoe

He's a trust fund baby, consequences happen to OTHER people.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012



Dragonmaw posted:

He could literally just be quiet and let it all go away, or express even fake contrition to assure the fence-sitters, but no, goddamnit, the world HAS RULES and YOU MUST ABIDE BY THE RULES and I DEFINE WHAT THE RULES ARE.

It's also the clearest tell that someone is a Zak sockpuppet because he's literally incapable of suppressing this behavior, for whatever reason.

No wonder all his RPGs suck.
He also, shockingly, is super into playing games that involve pretend worlds that he's in charge of where the rules are frighteningly rigid and inflexible and he harbors an intense hatred for people who prefer games with looser rules.

His games are also super violent and sexually charged.

There's a lot to unpack here.

Froghammer fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 12, 2020

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Froghammer posted:

He also, shockingly, is super into playing games that involve pretend worlds that he's in charge of where the rules are frighteningly rigid and inflexible and he harbors an intense hatred for people who prefer games with looser rules.

His games are also super violent and sexually charged.

There's a lot to unpack here.

Ugh, I really hate those kinds of players. Just in general. Like, if you're not OK with the DM fudging some dice so that they can tell a better story, gtfo.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012



He still holds a grudge about "Storygamers", which is a split in the hobby that was mostly resolved 5ish years ago when streaming blew up and it became obvious to everyone important that the most important aspect an RPG can have is ability to tell a good story because that's the easiest part of the game to monetize.

Zak Smith is a fractally awful human being. The more you look at him, the worse he gets.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Ziggy Hero!
Ziggy! Save! Everyone!


Froghammer posted:

He still holds a grudge about "Storygamers", which is a split in the hobby that was mostly resolved 5ish years ago when streaming blew up and it became obvious to everyone important that the most important aspect an RPG can have is ability to tell a good story because that's the easiest part of the game to monetize.

Zak Smith is a fractally awful human being. The more you look at him, the worse he gets.


You think the likes of Critical Role's success just eats up poo poo lord OSR guys?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Froghammer posted:

He still holds a grudge about "Storygamers", which is a split in the hobby that was mostly resolved 5ish years ago when streaming blew up and it became obvious to everyone important that the most important aspect an RPG can have is ability to tell a good story because that's the easiest part of the game to monetize.

Zak Smith is a fractally awful human being. The more you look at him, the worse he gets.

Goddamn what an idiot.

I mean, I loving love crunchy systems that are as intuitive as a square doorknob as much as the next guy. poo poo, my prefered tabletop is goddamned battletech. THACO makes intuitive sense to me at this point.

But if you don't have a good story all of that is just kind of dumb, and if you need to fudge some poo poo to make the story work so be it.

I mean, what the gently caress are you playing an RPG for if not the story? Like, at that point just go hang out with the tabletop nerds.

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

Postin in the springtime




Imo a tabletop RPG is basically a collaborative storytelling exercise, with rules and rolls as a form of creative constraint + a way to throw a wrench in your story and make you adapt

I'm a pretty casual player so forgive me if this is like a touchy subject in TG

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011


alnilam posted:

Imo a tabletop RPG is basically a collaborative storytelling exercise, with rules and rolls as a form of creative constraint + a way to throw a wrench in your story and make you adapt

I'm a pretty casual player so forgive me if this is like a touchy subject in TG

this is a good take that simultaneously would get the aforementioned zak s loving pissed at you and shouting that you are an imbecile destroying the hobby

(it's not true for all RPGs, but it's a valid way to play with very good systems that work like that)

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

Postin in the springtime




Sorry for destroying the hobby everyone i hope nobody's pants were destroyed in the process

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012



alnilam posted:

Imo a tabletop RPG is basically a collaborative storytelling exercise, with rules and rolls as a form of creative constraint + a way to throw a wrench in your story and make you adapt

I'm a pretty casual player so forgive me if this is like a touchy subject in TG
It's not.

The super, super stripped down version of this discussion involves GNS Theory: RPGs are balance of Gamism (the degree to which your game resembles a game, with all the trappings that games bring), Narrativism (the degree to which your game is capable of generating interesting stories), and Simulationism (the degree to which your game is "realistic"). In theory these are elements that should be working in harmony, but in practice they're usually at odds; introducing a mechanic or idea geared towards enhancing one of these elements commonly comes at the expense of one of the other two. Instant death spells, for example, are a staple of fantasy fiction and all but expected in the genre, but usually make for poor game balance (if they're bad they're useless, if they're good then combat tends to revolve around them).

There's a strong faction of the RPG community that adheres to Gamism so strongly that they think that an RPG that can't be won or lost in the traditional sense isn't really a game, just an exercise in mutual masturbation. These people are no fun to talk to.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Froghammer posted:


There's a strong faction of the RPG community that adheres to Gamism so strongly that they think that an RPG that can't be won or lost in the traditional sense isn't really a game, just an exercise in mutual masturbation. These people are no fun to talk to.

These people need to just play tabletop games.

I'm not even being snarky to talking poo poo. I do both. Tabletop poo poo can be a load of fun and really scratches that "crush your friend into dust over beers" itch. But the people who are looking for that in their weekend D&D session are in-loving-sufferable and always end up being the person in the group that everyone wants to get rid of.

edit: I should clarify tabletop strat games. Think WH40k, Battletech, etc.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Do I need a title?

Warthur posted:

Pundit went full Trumpist too, didn't he? Odd that Zak Smith AKA Zak Sabbath AKA Zak S. doesn't identify more with Trump, seeing how they have so much in common (abusers who use their wealth to try and exert a chilling effect on criticism and who have absolutely bugshit online personas).

Trump runs on a Republican ticket and Zak S doesn't like Republicans because they'll take away his demon titties.


Warthur posted:

This screwed Zak when it came to him engaging with GG. He was super-keen on b), but his past positions on a), c), and d) meant that there was no real prospect of him making any headway in that scene.

...which is why he created a harassment blog where he could use a paper-thin veneer of anonymity to mock Anita Sarkeesian for thinking maybe we should reflect more on why there's so many demon titties in video games.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

Froghammer posted:

There's a strong faction of the RPG community that adheres to Gamism so strongly that they think that an RPG that can't be won or lost in the traditional sense isn't really a game, just an exercise in mutual masturbation. These people are no fun to talk to.

Yeah, that's one of the first red flags for me when talking TTRPGS with someone. The idea of 'winning' at D&D is laughable, given the DM can win at any time they choose by simply upping difficulties or adding monsters arbitrarily.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006


Liquid Communism posted:

Yeah, that's one of the first red flags for me when talking TTRPGS with someone. The idea of 'winning' at D&D is laughable, given the DM can win at any time they choose by simply upping difficulties or adding monsters arbitrarily.

As one of my old DMs used to say "rocks fall, everyone dies, get out of my house"

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Liquid Communism posted:

Yeah, that's one of the first red flags for me when talking TTRPGS with someone. The idea of 'winning' at D&D is laughable, given the DM can win at any time they choose by simply upping difficulties or adding monsters arbitrarily.

This is why the good edition of D&D has encounter budgets (and ones that actually work) though.

The mark of good rules is that you don't have to fudge them.

Cyrano4747 posted:

These people need to just play tabletop games.

I'm not even being snarky to talking poo poo. I do both. Tabletop poo poo can be a load of fun and really scratches that "crush your friend into dust over beers" itch. But the people who are looking for that in their weekend D&D session are in-loving-sufferable and always end up being the person in the group that everyone wants to get rid of.

edit: I should clarify tabletop strat games. Think WH40k, Battletech, etc.

D&D is a tabletop strategy game. vv

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


anyways GNS theory, while broadly correct in terms of identifying the competing design pressures in traditional RPGs, was invented by a Simulationist to defend Simulationism as the one true way, when in fact virtually everything wrong with D&D comes from the obsession with simulation

meanwhile Narrative and Gamist design principles aren't actually at odds, as long as you accept that rules exist to shape narrative and that fudging rules is game design, not game mastery, and if you have to do it in order to realize the goals of the game then the designer has failed

all of which is a fascinating subject that i could talk about for hours, but also a pretty major derail from this thread about how Zak S. is a rapist

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«15 »