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 IT'S OUT
--------- Old World is a new entry (coming later this year!!!) to the increasingly vast Civ-a-like 4X TBS genre, and this one promises a historical setting like Civ itself and its upcoming competitor Humankind (unlike all the fantasy and sci-fi entries that make up most of that genre). And it's being developed by a Civ veteran, Soren Johnson! Let's hope it doesn't end up like other Civ veteran Jon Shafer's At the Gates.   Old World is a little more limited in scope than Civ or Humankind, finishing up well before the modern era, and with choices of leaders being strictly from around the Mediterranean and Fertile Crescent. But it is attempting to make up for this by having a very sophisticated events system (with over a thousand events) and a dynasty system - i.e. your leaders age and die and are succeeded. As one article puts it: quote:Old World’s character system is reminiscent of games like Crusader Kings 2 and adds a layer of personality and flavor absent from other historical 4X games. Take, for instance, your start as Queen Hatshepsut from Egypt. You begin the game with a daughter who you can quickly “marry off” to a provincial family in your empire, strengthening your relationship with that family. The events system is closely tied in: quote:Throughout a typical game of Old World, you’ll face various events that center on these characters, forcing you to decide how you’ll react, further changing the characters’ opinion of you, training, capabilities, and more. It's also got some very interesting mechanics, including a resource you need to accumulate ("orders") to move your armies around: quote:...an action system called “Orders”. Each turn, you accumulate Orders to move your units, perform tasks, and more. This means that you can use those orders to move a particular unit multiple times (until they become exhausted), have workers build improvements, command military units to attack foes, and more. You have a limited amount of orders, which can be increased through a variety of means, including increasing your leader’s legitimacy, through certain technologies, and more. Here's the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTwUvZyftgM      
Microplastics fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 4, 2022 |
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Apr 16, 2020 11:37
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I notice a bunch of the screenshots are on a map of Europe/Med basin. Is that the main map? Is there an autogen option like in Civ?
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Apr 16, 2020 12:50
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:How do the "action resource" points work? Orders are more or less exactly what they say on the tin: You spend Orders to do anything useful with your units. Moving a unit requires an order (not as bad as it sounds, more on that in a bit), attacking requires an order, cutting down trees or building an improvement requires an order, etc. Aside from an amount of base Orders you receive dependent on difficulty, your main sources of Orders will be the Legitimacy of your current ruler (1 per 10), bonuses from city family seats (more on that in another post, gotta keep this one kinda brief), one-time Order boosts from events, among other things. Orders will quickly become the limiting factor in how you spend your turns, forcing you to make strategic decisions between whether to focus more on developing your cities or on maneuvering your armies to deal with threats/initiate offensives. Fortunately, Orders are a resource unto themselves, so although you can't store them for later turns (any Orders not used during a turn are sold for gold), you can buy additional Orders during a turn with certain resources, most notably with Training (the primary resource for doing military stuff) but later on you can use Gold or even a portion of your Legitimacy. Whether more avenues of purchasing Orders ends up in the final game I cannot say. Oh, and it's worth noting in this build that you can undo your executed Orders at any time though whether this is part of the intended overarching design or just a temporary crutch to facilitate easier testing I'm not sure. Now you may be wondering "I need Orders to move my units? Doesn't that mean I'm going to spend all my Orders slowly moving my military every turn? That sounds terrible!" Well, yes and no. Your immediate thought may be some slow and awkward "Spend 1 order to move one tile" type of deal but it's quite a bit more forgiving than that. How it actually works is that units have two important attributes: Their movement speed and their fatigue limit. The fatigue limit tells you how many times that unit can act on this turn while the movement speed tells you how many tiles the unit can move per action. The important part is that performing an action is what consumes the Order. Naturally, movement speed may be limited by terrain as you'd expect in any Civ game. So for a quick example, the Scout is your bog standard exploration unit. It has 3 movement speed and 4 fatigue limit, so at any time you can spend an order to move that Scout up to 3 spaces in open terrain at the cost of one order and one Fatigue point. You can do this up to four times, meaning you spend four Orders to move your Scout up to 12(!) spaces in open terrain. Military units may or may not use one of their fatigue points to actually execute an attack, and they typically start with less of them and with less movement speed, so they aren't quite as mobile but it's still not as bad as going 1 for 1 like you might expect. And that's not all, since all units have a March ability wherein your can spend Training to replenish a fatigue point, giving you a crucial extra action should you need it to evade enemy attacks or get that last bit of damage in against a weak unit. It's fun! Last, you create units (and Projects, which are kinda buildings kinda not, it's weird) in your cities as you'd expect from a Civ game, but even then it's a bit different. There's no such thing as "production" or "hammers" to abstract the process of creating things in your cities. Everything you collect in the game is a discrete resource, and those resources are all used in different ways. As far as building things go, units in particular have at least two resource costs. There's an upfront resource cost that you deplete from your stores to start the process, and then there's a development resource cost of sorts that is diverted from the city's actual yields per turn. Just to give an example in practice, a Warrior costs 50 iron and 60 Training. The iron cost is immediately depleted from your total iron stockpile, but then the Training cost is covered over time by the city. A city may have a base Training yield of, say +8 per turn. This yield is typically put towards your total Training stockpile that you can use for buying Orders, fatigue points, and other stuff. If you're queuing the warrior though, that +8 is instead diverted to building the unit. At +8 per turn that means you'd need 8 turns total to complete the building of the Warrior (8 * 8 = 64, which covers the 60 Training cost) I could go on about some other related things but I need to go, hopefully my explanations have been clear enough. 
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Apr 16, 2020 13:16
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Giant Bomb streamed this for a couple of hours yesterday if people want to see some gameplay: https://www.giantbomb.com/shows/old-world-041520/2970-20116
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Apr 16, 2020 13:32
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Elenkis posted:Giant Bomb streamed this for a couple of hours yesterday if people want to see some gameplay: Sadly the link is broken (and I couldn't find it through searching) - has it expired?
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Apr 16, 2020 16:22
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OP I cannot tell from your post if this is a game that is released or a game in development. I feel like this is important information.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:29
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Ok it says on their page it's coming summer 2020. I think you should put that in the OP!!!
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Apr 16, 2020 16:37
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Here's a nice little preview from IGN https://www.ign.com/videos/11-minutes-of-old-world-gameplay
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Apr 16, 2020 17:03
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Chomp8645 posted:Ok it says on their page it's coming summer 2020. I think you should put that in the OP!!!  duly added
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Apr 16, 2020 17:49
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Sadly the link is broken (and I couldn't find it through searching) - has it expired? Looks like it got pulled. Possibly for breaking embargo?
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Apr 16, 2020 18:06
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Both of those video links are broken. Maybe they aren't allowed to show gameplay yet? The "orders" mechanic sounds interesting. Reminds me of the action points in the boardgame Through the Ages, where you need to spend a point whenever you build something, research something, get a leader, etc. So you have to invest in developing your government or you'll have a ton of resources with no way to spend it. Hopefully in Old World it lead to less micromanagement than similar games in this genre.
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Apr 16, 2020 18:08
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Super Jay Mann posted:Orders stuff. I like it. Another question: I absolutely hate events in every strategy game ever. Hate them. I understand that events may be required in this game to create some kind of family conflict to form your future leaders, but what about the other events? Are the events actually meaningful and fun, or am I choosing whether to jerk off the scholars for +5 science or to jerk off the farmers for +5 food? How big of a role do events play? The Human Crouton fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 18:12
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Elenkis posted:Looks like it got pulled. Possibly for breaking embargo? Yeah, there's a video embargo that they weren't clear about apparently.
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Apr 16, 2020 19:10
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The Human Crouton posted:I like it. You're definitely choosing between jerking off one faction for another for resources most times, the difference is that the groups you're casting aside can and will hold it against you in ways you wouldn't expect. And most decisions are in fact part of rather long and involved decision trees where choosing one course of action will cascade into a bunch of other sometimes more difficult decisions as consequences of your earlier choice. It's also worth noting that because of how your Court works (for example, you need to appoint someone in your employ as an Ambassador in order to do any kind of diplomatic actions with anyone, and these people have their own traits, bonuses, maluses and, possibly most importantly, opinion of you as a ruler). Also worth pointing out here is that aside from rival nations and tribes your civ also has Families that are established as you found new cities that you have to keep in your good graces lest the cities and units that are a part of them don't become completely worthless to you. So that's another layer if diplomacy to worry about that comes into great effect when it comes to event chains. If you're the type of guy who's turned off by RNG swings and events possibly screwing you if timed poorly then this probably won't be the game for you. On the other hand you can get into some pretty gnarly situations if you aren't careful. One example I can point to in my own experience is when I appointed my Schemer wife as my Ambassador because she had high Charisma, and then I sent her on a mission to broker a Peace deal between my civ (the Babylonians) and a local Tribe. Tribes in this game are kinda sorta "barbarians you can do diplomacy with" just as an fyi. Next turn I'm told by event that everything's fine, my queen consort ambassador totally has a plan that will secure peace for our nation and there's nothing at all suspicious about it! Of course there was an option to call her out on her totally not suspicious "negotiations" but I thought nothing of it and just went ahead with it. We end up in peace for a while and everything is good until several turns later when an emissary from the tribe tells me that my totally trustworthy wife kinda sorta kidnapped the infant son of the Tribe's leader and negotiated the peace with the Tribe leader under duress and that maybe we should uh, give him back? And also murder the scheming woman who kidnapped him which, if I had chosen to do so, would have royally pissed off the Family she's a part of? Long story short, we weren't at peace anymore. At least this wonderful and totally queen consort had the privilege of become Queen proper when the King died of illness a few turns later, so there's that. 
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Apr 16, 2020 19:14
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Well now. This game has me quite interested. A game focused on a period of history instead of the whole of history. https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/04/14/preview-shape-nations-and-annoy-kings-in-old-world-the-new-4x-from-civ-4s-soren-johnson/ I was able to watch that Giant Bomb video and the state of the game looked good. Very few minor rough edges here and there, impressive overall for an early access game. Watching the video made me want to play it. It seems more of a Civilization type game than a Crusader Kings 2 -style personality management game, but there was enough difference there to make it worth checking it out. So far the people who have had access to the game seem to like it and see it as promising. The events that The Human Crouton hates are something that I personally like to see in a game like this, in my view they serve the purpose of forming a different experience each time you play, creating a story for your empire and dynasty that is more of a memorable one than just +5 food for option A etc. Not to say that there won't be such options in this game, but the events did not seem too bad. Personal tastes maybe. Choosing between tyranny and rule of law for example would seem to shape the nation a lot, but that is just my first impression. The impacts of those decisions have an effect on the rival families in your empire, the rulers and heirs of your or other empires and so forth. Seems like good stuff. The choices seemed meaningful on the surface, can't speak of what's under the hood. If you just can't stand events at all, there's other games out there. This one looked good to me. I am still on the fence a bit, but I am more in the camp of wanting to buy it.
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Apr 16, 2020 19:17
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Super Jay Mann posted:Events. As described, those events don't seem too bad because it seems you are controlling them in some way by assigning family resources to them that affect the options and outcomes. It's really just abstracting the fact that you can't personally control all aspects of your empire into the game. I may not hate it once I see more of it. SlightlyMad posted:The events that The Human Crouton hates are something that I personally like to see in a game like this, in my view they serve the purpose of forming a different experience each time you play, creating a story for your empire and dynasty that is more of a memorable one than just +5 food for option A etc. Not to say that there won't be such options in this game, but the events did not seem too bad. Personal tastes maybe. I disagree on events generally creating variety. The variety of the game should be in the map, opponents, and other foundational rules of the game; rather than modifier type mechanics. Events can actually ruin the variety because I may start on poorer farmland than usual one game, begin to form a plan to adjust to this situation, but some dude sees a comet and now my farmland is productive. I mostly find events to be lazy randomization added to give the illusion of variety, to cover up for bad foundational rules, or just something added because they ran out to expansion ideas. It's something I could go on about forever, so I'm stopping at one paragraph instead. As described in this game though, they might be okay. That's assuming that they do indeed form some kind of narrative, and can be manipulated by choosing who brings these events before you.
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Apr 16, 2020 19:46
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Make no mistake, there's plenty of just plain RNG events involved (though none I've seen that have affected things like improvement yields or whatnot) and I can't say for sure to what extent these events will shape the course of your game as the game isn't finished and event chains/balancing are being added and tinkered with all the time, all I can really say is they exist and, if nothing else, have a profound effect on future diplomacy between nations/tribes/families.
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Apr 16, 2020 20:33
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Super Jay Mann posted:Orders are more or less exactly what they say on the tin: You spend Orders to do anything useful with your units. Moving a unit requires an order (not as bad as it sounds, more on that in a bit), attacking requires an order, cutting down trees or building an improvement requires an order, etc. Aside from an amount of base Orders you receive dependent on difficulty, your main sources of Orders will be the Legitimacy of your current ruler (1 per 10), bonuses from city family seats (more on that in another post, gotta keep this one kinda brief), one-time Order boosts from events, among other things. Orders will quickly become the limiting factor in how you spend your turns, forcing you to make strategic decisions between whether to focus more on developing your cities or on maneuvering your armies to deal with threats/initiate offensives. Fortunately, Orders are a resource unto themselves, so although you can't store them for later turns (any Orders not used during a turn are sold for gold), you can buy additional Orders during a turn with certain resources, most notably with Training (the primary resource for doing military stuff) but later on you can use Gold or even a portion of your Legitimacy. Whether more avenues of purchasing Orders ends up in the final game I cannot say. Oh, and it's worth noting in this build that you can undo your executed Orders at any time though whether this is part of the intended overarching design or just a temporary crutch to facilitate easier testing I'm not sure. Thanks. Orders are still basically 1 for 1, but it's not one tile per one order which is good. What I'd like with the orders system is that it should cost me one order to send an army to some distant location where it'll muster with my other armies, even if it takes that army 4 or 5 turns to get there, it should only cost me one to order to get there, but it sounds like that isn't how the system is designed. As for units you can build a spearman, for X initial cost, plus some cost/turn based on how much of that resources you are making per turn. So presumably in the example of the spearman costing 60 training, if I had a city making 60 training a turn, then I should be able to build a spearman in one turn. What happens if I build a second spearman? Same cost? Ramping cost? Ongoing upkeep for each spearmen? And finally is it one unit per tile or do two spearmen combine to make a spearman army?
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Apr 17, 2020 04:27
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Thanks. Orders are still basically 1 for 1, but it's not one tile per one order which is good. What I'd like with the orders system is that it should cost me one order to send an army to some distant location where it'll muster with my other armies, even if it takes that army 4 or 5 turns to get there, it should only cost me one to order to get there, but it sounds like that isn't how the system is designed. Yes, you'd be able to one-turn a Spearman in that case, though it doesn't seem possible to ramp up a city's Training production anywhere near that high even much later in the game. I haven't played a ton into late game though (crashes and bugs and constant updates have a way of cutting off games unfortunately) so I'm not entirely privy to any balance issues like that. I don't think military units ramp up in cost (I haven't checked too closely) but they do have an upkeep cost. And even then spamming units generally isn't tenable if you don't have the orders to use them, so you're not going to see carpets over carpets of units like you would in Civ 5/6, unless you want half your army just sitting there doing nothing. As far as I could tell it's all straight 1UPT, no combined units or anything like that.
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Apr 17, 2020 04:32
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How is the battle system handled? Do units use the RPG/Tactics game model of 'health' or is it more strategic (unit health affects combat ability)?
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Apr 17, 2020 05:34
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This all sounds super cool, said by a guy who likes CK2 a lot but finds it a little too complicated, and likes Civilization a lot but finds it a little too simple. One doubt though - they speak of a thousand events like it's a big number, but that actually seems pretty low; with a "1 year per turn" timetable I'm guessing you will see a good amount of them in any single playthrough, and there will be some serious overlapping where you'll see the same events over and over after just a few games (or even in the same game for the "generic" ones). This already happens with CK2 which has at least ten thousand events if not more... But hey I guess they thought of this and there will be some mitigation/variance rule I hope. Anyway this game looks a ton more interesting than Humankind and I'm really looking forward to it!
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Apr 17, 2020 08:37
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TorakFade posted:This all sounds super cool, said by a guy who likes CK2 a lot but finds it a little too complicated, and likes Civilization a lot but finds it a little too simple. I think it was mentioned somewhere that they were at a thousand events in the game at that moment of development, three thousand were in the plan and more in the future. I could be wrong. CK2 and its DLC has been developed over a long time and they've added events all the way. I would think the same will be the case with Old World. I wonder how much the game would cost once it's complete. Right now I'm seeing 32.99€ at Epic, which seems reasonable but it's a pre-purchase price.
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Apr 17, 2020 10:11
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Krazyface posted:I notice a bunch of the screenshots are on a map of Europe/Med basin. Is that the main map? Is there an autogen option like in Civ? There seems to be both historic map(s) and randomly generated maps. I gotta admit I am liking the concept of this game even more the more I read about their development plans. A lot of the even crazy event chains in the game are stuff that have actually happened historically, and you can roleplay the game without knowing the consequences of your decisions if you prefer it that way. Quotes from history books might need spoiler tags some day. The events are not just numerical fluff either, but have a big impact on how the game plays out. The diplomacy alone seems a whole lot better than I've seen in many other 4X games, based on what I've read and seen so far. Can't comment on the final product obviously, or how good the AI will be etc., so it's just early impressions but this game seems to scratch that "one more turn" itch for me. If Crusader Kings 3 is more accessible than CK2, Old World will have stiff competition for my favorite spot. I like the previous games of these developers, so I am willing to put a lot of faith in them. And the ancient world setting with turn-based gameplay? Sign me up. I decided to pre-purchase this to get in on that early access train later this summer. Not something I often do. The listed release date on Epic Games Store is 8/31/2020, but it doesn't say if that is the beginning of early access or the official release. I am just guessing the latter since elsewhere they mentioned early access starting before summer. That would mean a short early access period but the game looked to be in pretty good shape already. Either way, I will be playing this soon enough.
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Apr 18, 2020 10:19
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Super Jay Mann posted:Make no mistake, there's plenty of just plain RNG events involved (though none I've seen that have affected things like improvement yields or whatnot) and I can't say for sure to what extent these events will shape the course of your game as the game isn't finished and event chains/balancing are being added and tinkered with all the time, all I can really say is they exist and, if nothing else, have a profound effect on future diplomacy between nations/tribes/families. Super Jay Mann posted:On the other hand you can get into some pretty gnarly situations if you aren't careful. One example I can point to in my own experience is when I appointed my Schemer wife as my Ambassador because she had high Charisma, and then I sent her on a mission to broker a Peace deal between my civ (the Babylonians) and a local Tribe. Tribes in this game are kinda sorta "barbarians you can do diplomacy with" just as an fyi. Next turn I'm told by event that everything's fine, my queen consort ambassador totally has a plan that will secure peace for our nation and there's nothing at all suspicious about it! Of course there was an option to call her out on her totally not suspicious "negotiations" but I thought nothing of it and just went ahead with it. We end up in peace for a while and everything is good until several turns later when an emissary from the tribe tells me that my totally trustworthy wife kinda sorta kidnapped the infant son of the Tribe's leader and negotiated the peace with the Tribe leader under duress and that maybe we should uh, give him back? And also murder the scheming woman who kidnapped him which, if I had chosen to do so, would have royally pissed off the Family she's a part of?
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Apr 19, 2020 13:29
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We can expect to hear the start date soon, that is when early access becomes playable. They will tweet about it next week. It will definitely be before August.
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Apr 23, 2020 16:45
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Looks a lot like Field of Glory: Empires, which managed to grab a hundred hours of my time earlier in the year. Looking forward to this.
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Apr 27, 2020 17:41
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Early Access officially opens up May 5th. Some streamers have access already to try it out.
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Apr 28, 2020 16:51
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SlightlyMad posted:Early Access officially opens up May 5th. Some streamers have access already to try it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVuAXLXb02g looks fun.
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Apr 28, 2020 21:45
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That is a good video to watch for learning, the player has experience with the game. Holy poo poo that assassination train! Choo choo. For those who haven't watched the whole video: Duke Remus killed the whole family lineage of his brother one by one and finally became king at age 65!  Those tooltips opening up on the screen like that are really nice. Encyclopedia at your fingertips.
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Apr 29, 2020 11:56
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SlightlyMad posted:Those tooltips opening up on the screen like that are really nice. Encyclopedia at your fingertips. Willing to bet that idea was wholesale nicked from At The Gates (and so it should be, it's a great way of doing help text).
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Apr 29, 2020 14:57
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Willing to bet that idea was wholesale nicked from At The Gates (and so it should be, it's a great way of doing help text). Yeah, at the Gates had a lot of good design decisions, just, so much undercooked stuff in there with it. I thought the CK2 direction of feuding clans was a huge mistake in a game where the most compelling part is economy and resource depletion(which essentially went away when stone structures got changed to be infinite).
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Apr 29, 2020 15:06
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Willing to bet that idea was wholesale nicked from At The Gates (and so it should be, it's a great way of doing help text). As boring as At the Gates is, those tooltips add a whole letter grade to that game.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:07
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Really need follow on title text, looks so out of place like a joke or troll post when scrolling through the Games section. I'm uncreative as hell but even something like "Old World, it's the New Civ" would look better.
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Apr 29, 2020 21:47
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nessin posted:Really need follow on title text, looks so out of place like a joke or troll post when scrolling through the Games section. I'm uncreative as hell but even something like "Old World, it's the New Civ" would look better. Just a few suggestions if "Old World" is too plain for a title. -"Old World, new tricks" -"Old World, royal bastard of Civ and CK2" -"Uncle Remus' guide to taking care of royal heirs: Old World" -"It's good to be a King: Old World" -"Who let the dukes out? Old World"
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Apr 30, 2020 06:15
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Old World: Our lawyers reminded us that we'd only included seven crowns
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Apr 30, 2020 19:02
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That Potato play through makes me super hyped for this game, though ill probably wait a bit for the early access jankiness to get dealt with. Is there a good timeline for beyond may 5 anywhere? The dev site didn’t seem to have anything.
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Apr 30, 2020 20:59
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this look pretty neat what was so bad about At The Gates? I completely forgot that game existed
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Apr 30, 2020 22:35
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babypolis posted:this look pretty neat Everything is bad about it. It crashes a ton, isn't fun or interesting and lacks any challenge from the environment or computer players.
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Apr 30, 2020 23:02
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babypolis posted:this look pretty neat It spent a bunch of time in development hell and then got rushed out at the end. It's.. got a very solid economic game, and then everything else about it sucks. It has a half-assed clan system because Jon Shafer played CK2 and it was popular, it has a not-really functional AI for the opponents, it's a mess.
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Apr 30, 2020 23:06
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i'd follow soren johnson into the depths of hell, and this looks a lot nicer than that
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Apr 30, 2020 23:07
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