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Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
Still a 16 year old motor, but at least touching it doesn't make your clothes dirty any more.

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Brass Hand
Feb 27, 2020

Blacknose posted:

Still a 16 year old motor, but at least touching it doesn't make your clothes dirty any more.



V nice, OP. Love those Renault motifs on the seats. It’s weird how you can tell what a seat is going to feel like just by looking at it, some indescribable Renault-ishness.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
They're pretty good for van seats, although the drivers needs a big bolster repair.

I like the 'feel' French vehicles seem to have. They're vaguely interesting in a world of bland vehicles.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
gently caress I'm glad this is over. Just needs paint, worktop and cupboard doors.

Kitchen.




Seat. Lid will be hinged once it's painted.



Paint and a little bit of finessing (with a sander and a hammer) the fit tomorrow.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
Oh hey also remember how I said the bulkhead was 'good enough' now? Yeah it probably isn't, and the big sheet of ply on the bottom needs replacing with a straight sheet. It's not an issue per se but it means the worktop will be like 2.5cm deeper at one end than the other and that will bother me.

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Pillbug
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of great. When doing a one-off learn-as-you-go there’ll always be things like that. If it’s functional and structurally sound, send it.

(I’m saying that as a fairly anal perfectionist, so I’m struggling with the same things myself.)

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
Yeah I went out this morning and poked around, pulled a few things a little more square with a few more fasteners and thought gently caress it.

So instead I painted the kitchen and seat and fitted them.



Excuse the slightly dingy pictures in the van, the light was fading.





Also the parts people sent me an engine undertray for an Audi S4 not my van, and I only discovered after driving to the next town to pick it up from the couriers depot. I wouldn't mind so much but there was too much traffic to open the taps a bit.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

I thought you had a turntable installed for a second there.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried

taqueso posted:

I thought you had a turntable installed for a second there.

Alas it is not.

I've just realised the gas pigtail that came with my gas locker is for butane not propane, which is what I wanted to use. Given both my stove and regulator are happy with either, and if it's bellow zero I'll have died of hypothermia, I'm tempted to just go with butane. Is this a bad choice or does it really not matter?

Blacknose fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jun 10, 2020

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

It's not ideal but as long as you're not relying on your gas below 5°c you might never notice. Personally I'd change it and use propane, it's a one off cost and you'll never see a problem Vs might have a problem at the least convenient time.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
More pressingly I was just out at the van and realised the huge 15kg calor sized locker I bought doesn't fit in the kitchen unit under the hob, so now it's a toss up between paying someone to do all the gas plumbing to install it under the bed or selling it on ebay at a loss and just using Campingaz, because I am running out of effort for bullshit and also pushing the top of the budget (I can afford to spend more I just don't want to).

e; having a proper 'I want to let the handbrake off and let the van roll into the river' day. I blame not sleeping properly.

Blacknose fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jun 10, 2020

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:
Might be a good day for a break. You've been getting so much done on this thing, you deserve it.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
Yeah I took the day off other than to offer up the gas locker and continue my battle with making the steering wheel controls work with the new stereo. Gonna phone some gas engineers tomorrow and try to get a ballpark idea of installation costs. If it's not too bad I'll stick with the current locker + huge propane cylinder plan, if it's hundreds then I may well gently caress that off, sell the locker and go for s simple option.

Irritating thing is I want to get the gas installation sorted before putting the worktop in just for ease of access. Everything is accessible from underneath for maintenance and inspection but it's not great. Guess I can park the kitchen for the moment and build the seat that will hold the shitter or the shelves at the side of the bed.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Blacknose posted:

More pressingly I was just out at the van and realised the huge 15kg calor sized locker I bought doesn't fit in the kitchen unit under the hob, so now it's a toss up between paying someone to do all the gas plumbing to install it under the bed or selling it on ebay at a loss and just using Campingaz, because I am running out of effort for bullshit and also pushing the top of the budget (I can afford to spend more I just don't want to).

e; having a proper 'I want to let the handbrake off and let the van roll into the river' day. I blame not sleeping properly.

Legally I don't think you have to have anything done or checked by a gas professional in a self build van.....

If you are DIY'ing then:
You can buy a honeywell ezsense battery powered gas detector for £30 (I've got one - it works!). You can easily check any connections with it or check for a general leak.
Propane/butane/LPG in a vehicle is easy to deal with as it is heavier that air so you just need to ensure that your gas locker is sealed down to vent that goes out through the floor. LPG installs do this so you can easily get bulkhead connectors or campervan floor vent covers

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
It's true you don't have to, but if I'm running 4+ metres of copper through the habitation areas both me and my insurance company would feel better with a certificate. Also the confidence factor, I guess.

E; gas is the one thing in the build where a gently caress up is likely to kill people, and that makes me nervous.

Blacknose fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 10, 2020

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Blacknose posted:

It's true you don't have to, but if I'm running 4+ metres of copper through the habitation areas both me and my insurance company would feel better with a certificate. Also the confidence factor, I guess.

E; gas is the one thing in the build where a gently caress up is likely to kill people, and that makes me nervous.

My insurance company have never asked about any certs for my camper van conversion.

I've had to get a cert for the LPG engine fuel install but nothing for the cooker.

Having owned a 'professionally' converted van and stripped a caravan down, 'professional' camper van gas install standards are very low!

I also watched the place do my LPG engine certs. They simply checked the lines visually, did all the joints and the line with a gas probe and checked i had installed everything as per the book before setting it up properly (which is the only complicated bit!).

Tomarse fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jun 10, 2020

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
OK, I'm going to come at this with a fresh head tomorrow, speak to the gas engineers we use for our house and decide if it's worth taking a punt on a reel of 8mm copper, a pipe bender and a tester and having a crack at it.

Wish I didn't so compulsively over engineer everything and make work for myself like this.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

Blacknose posted:

Wish I didn't so compulsively over engineer everything and make work for myself like this.
I feel this. It's going to (it already is) come out so nice though!

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried

taqueso posted:

I feel this. It's going to (it already is) come out so nice though!

Thanks, it's good to know it's looking good to an outsider perspective.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Blacknose posted:

OK, I'm going to come at this with a fresh head tomorrow, speak to the gas engineers we use for our house and decide if it's worth taking a punt on a reel of 8mm copper, a pipe bender and a tester and having a crack at it.

Wish I didn't so compulsively over engineer everything and make work for myself like this.

Feel free to ignore me - and don't hesitate to get a professional to check things if you feel you should! but I don't want you to waste your money unnecessarily.

you should:
Check with your insurers if they care about any certs or proof for your conversion. Mine don't seem to.
find out if there are any legal standards you need to follow
find out if there are any recommendations you need to follow

I'm basing my approach on what I've seen so far. My proper motorhome had a gas locker which was an internal wooden unit direct onto the flooring. Silicone sealed along its edges with the floor and a vent hole with tube drilled through the floor. The gas bottle regulator was attached to a bit of rubber gas hose which was then jubilee clipped onto 8mm copper. This copper ran internally to a 3 way block with stop taps which then ran internally to all the gas appliances.
The gas appliances (cooker, heater, water heater) were also in units siliconed to the floor. There were floor vents below them all. The cooker unit had a lip of an inch or two along the front edge (which I like to think would guide any gas leakage out the floor vent rather than into the interior but might have just been decorative).

This is lower spec than the requirements for LPG engine installs (you have to run all pipework externally under the car for engine fueling)

You can also buy 8mm copper by the metre from an LPG installer. The automotive stuff is rubber covered too which is nice. They will also sell you P clips for it.
8mm copper can be bent by hand OK. 90 degrees with a sensible radius will be easy.
If you need a really tight bend you can get 8mm angle fittings which are compression type with olives and a couple of them will be loads cheaper than a pipe bender. LPG supplier will also get you these.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
That's really solid advice, thanks!

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Blacknose posted:

That's really solid advice, thanks!

From 2 minutes of googling it looks like the legal situation is that you can do whatever gas work you like in your own motorhome if you are self-rated as 'competent'. Having work checked/certified/done by a registered gas installer is only legally required if you are hiring the vehicle out.
So its down to you here. If I were you I would DIY it, and either buy a tester or get someone to leak test it for you (I bought my own because more tools are always good!). You could easily do a 24/48 hour leak down test too (weight the gas bottle before and after). You are only actually going to do 2 joints if you only have one unbroken piping run!

Do some reading up on best practise - but I think you pretty much just need to go for making sure your locker is sealed and vented downwards through the floor (think of leaking LPG like leaking water), and think about where the connector on the back of your cooker or your cooker itself might leak to and make sure everything below there is vented downwards in a way that it would leave the vehicle.
I am planning on running my gas line using automotive rubber covered copper and dropping it down below the floor, exiting/entering through my gas vent holes.

Tomarse fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jun 10, 2020

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
Ok I'm going to give it a go. If I die I'm haunting all of you.

cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



Fun Shoe
You'll be fine! Use a spray bottle with some diluted dish soap and water to check for leaks. Try not to kink the hell out of any copper lines too, though stateside camper builders do this without a problem so ymmv :v:
Like Tomarse said, seal the bottle storage cabinet up and vent it down as the gas is heavier than air.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:
As someone that has been woken up by a carbon monoxide alarm in a camper, I want to mention that you should get a carbon monoxide alarm.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
That absolutely goes without saying. CO alarm, smoke alarm, extinguisher and fire blanket will all be installed.

Really appreciate the collective advice on the gas install guys, ordered the last bits I need for it today and will have a crack at it next week.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
Just started working on running the copper pipe and gently caress me what a poo poo material to work with. Managed to route most of it then lapsed concentration for half a second and put a kink in the middle. Result of that is there's enough pipe run that it can come into the gas locker near the bottom which doesn't seem right, and honestly I'm not convinced I want to be in the same room as any of it.

Obviously none of this is secured properly because I'm probably going to rip it out this afternoon anyway.

Under the stove.


Through the van.




To the locker.


My lack of any kind of plumbing skills has turned this into a complete folly.

stinch
Nov 21, 2013
honestly that doesn't look that bad. if you spent 15 minutes straightening out all the random little bends it would do a lot for how it looks.

if you want to be 100% with it you will have to get a bender since there is only so much you can do bending by hand.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



looks fine to me. That's pretty much what a professional install looks like. Just clamp it in place and its all good.

If you are too short you can just use an 8mm compression/olive joint on it, or you could fit an 8mm gas isolating valve there (eg https://www.screwfix.com/p/gas-isolating-valve-8-x-8mm/87408) to make any future cooker replacement easier.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
I'm kind of concerned by a bunch of spots where the pipe has flattened slightly. I also don't think it's a good idea to drill near the bottom of the locker for the pipe to enter (although I could be unfounded in my concern). I guess I could join it although wouldn't that require another drop vent?

Feeling a bit overwhelmed by the job tbh. I made some good progress on the shelves instead.

e; I know I'm being over cautious on this job but the idea of a fire in a living space that I'm in really scares the poo poo out of me.

Blacknose fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jun 13, 2020

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:
So this is taking the piss a little bit since I think a little flattening is nothing to worry about. And I'm not a pipefitter or anything. But, it seems like you could use pipe instead of tubing if you want everything to be solid and squared away and immune to being distorted in shape.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Blacknose posted:

I'm kind of concerned by a bunch of spots where the pipe has flattened slightly. I also don't think it's a good idea to drill near the bottom of the locker for the pipe to enter (although I could be unfounded in my concern). I guess I could join it although wouldn't that require another drop vent?

Feeling a bit overwhelmed by the job tbh. I made some good progress on the selves instead.

e; I know I;m being over cautious on this job but the idea of a fire in a living space that I'm in really scares the poo poo out of me.

I know how you feel about overwhelming jobs! just keep working at it and it will be done eventually!

A bit of flattening will be fine.

As long as it comes into the locker above the vent hole in the base then you are good. Have you got one of the pre-made bottle locker units? what does it look like?

Is the end that is too short where it enters the locker or in your unit under the cooker?

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
The locker end is short, the other end is probably barely OK. There's just enough pipe to enter the locker near the bottom, then fit a compression joint just inside I guess.

Locker is a professional jobby.



angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Regarding that copper tubing, did you buy that piece cut to length or was it a new coil with sealed ends? I only ask cause when I used to run HVAC tubing, the soft drawn coiled copper came factory sealed (with a slight nitrogen charge iirc) and it was MUCH more pliable yet resistant to kinking, as long as you kept the caps on. SOP was to get the tubing completely bent and installed before cutting the ends for connection (silver solder brazing in our case).

As was already said though, yours looks exactly like any professional gas line install.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
It was just a piece cut off a reel by some lpg place.

I'm not sure if it's comforting to know that professionals do work as poo poo as this, but I guess I'm going to leave the job parked for a bit, let the frustration dissipate, and come back to it. Also I'll get it certified afterwards just for piece of mind. Thanks for the reassurance. I can probably take solace in this being the first job where I've had to step back and nope out of it for a bit, given that other than DC wiring I didn't have a clue about any of it when I started.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:
You should see what that tubing looks like behind gas appliances that have been replaced a few times, say in an older apartment.

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
In an effort to not think about doing gas fitting I built the storage for next to the bed.



Area towards the back door is shelves for general clothes storage etc, front bit is open storage which will be used to hold instruments.



Needs paint tomorrow, then can be fitted, ends cladded and the join with the ceiling tidied up.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Please stop making so much interior progress you make me jealous!.

I've just spent another afternoon doing loads of bitty jobs

Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
I have huge numbers of lovely little jobs to do, I'm just putting them off to smash through the big interior furnishings.

I feel like I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel though, finally.

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cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



Fun Shoe
Your woodworking ability and speed continues to amaze

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