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Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


skeleton warrior posted:

That advice would mean more if I didnít already have seven hours in the game and was only a third of the way to unlocking bone golems, and my only option is ďrestart and grind moreĒ. Right now I have dark warriors who canít do anything interesting except take damage, and skeletons and zombies that die in three hits from dwarves, and liches and brides who die in fewer hits if they get pulled forward. And they always get pulled forward.


Yeah, which would be fine if you got a chance to learn those things, but itís much closer to ďhereís a flamethrower and now that youíre fighting them letís NOW reveal that they have more armor than your best physical attacks do, oh, TPK, guess youíre not smart enough to play at the medium difficultyĒ.

Iím just generally finding it a mess where youíre supposed to stat up characters but stat ups donít actually seem to be big enough to matter (ooh after two levels Iíve saved up enough for another 2 points in evasion), half of the powers a character has never get used because theyíre in the wrong position or do the wrong damage, and it just all feels like a wreck of bad options and trap choices with everyone talking about the good
Classes but those are all behind the grind wall.

Weird, your experience does not match mine. I'm pretty sure I had unlocked wraiths, mummies, lich and vampires within 7 hours of playing (lost souls as well, not sure). I admit I did a "last checkpoint" once after my first battle vs a flamethrower, but afterwards I never had any issues fighting them.

I also have the impression that a "no synergy team" of 2 brides and 2 skeles would already be able to handle the dwarves just fine if you use all stat ups of the skeles for armor and resistance only. The other classes are viable as well but perhaps require more thought about synergies, while skele+brides just do pretty much everything decently. Good burst damage against the backline to kill them quickly, can ignore armor, stance cancels, multihit to remove blocks, can use wrath effectively, etc.

Personally I'm pretty impressed by the nr of viable builds and different tactics you can try. Some strategies (synergies) I could think about :
- Abilities that trigger on movement + abilities that shuffle/move the enemies
- High evasion + abilities that lower accuraccy (stacking this is just very efficient health)
- Ability that buff minion(s) damage + damage efficient ults (for example combine with zombie's double powder)
- Debuffs + abilities that trigger on debuffs
- Lost souls ability to buff enemy team (+ the spell that buffs luck on everybody) + abilities that trigger on buffs
- Use summons (you can also start with a lvl 1 throwaway minion as well) + abilities that trigger on death of an ally or sacrifice it
- Stack amor/resistance on everybody (because it's a linear block increasing it can be very efficient)
- Stack spellpower + abilities that generate mana and use spells to deal damage
- Wrath generating abilities + minions that benefit greatly from spamming ults (i.e. bride)
- Stack luck boosts on yourself and luck debuffs on enemy to crit 100% of the time
- Stack buffs that last until end of battle + healing/lifesteal/blocks/wards to stay alive initially and heal any damage afterwards
- Any of the above but focused on stress instead of vigor damage
And I'm probably forgetting some since I still have a lot to unlock.

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Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


For future reference: it took me 20 hours of playtime to unlock all minions.

Some questions:
- Is the final boss also clearly stronger in higher difficulties compared to "more pain"? I had a pretty easy time on the last floors but the boss was a challenge (in hindsight I should have changed my team for him).
- What level is normal for your minions in the end? I was wondering whether I overleveled my minions (lvl 33) by using the same units 100% of the time or if this doesn't really matter.
- Is high initiative actually useful (besides unfrozen)? I assume a minion still has the same amount of turns regardless of high or low initiative?

My end-game composition was lost soul + wraith + lost soul + banshee and I found it extremely strong compared to other teams I tried. However, I can imagine it's better lategame rather than early becauses it relies on some talents (the spell that buffs crit on everybody in particular) and the ult upgrade that gives mana when cleansings buffs. Early game a skeleton is probably more relieable than the banshee, there's some good synergy with the smite ability. Once you have the talent that reduces wrath costs, the talent that gives 50% more wrath generation and the artifact that gives 12 wrath every round then nothing beats the banshee using her stun every single round.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


Thanks a lot for the answers!

Nakar posted:

1) The final boss is difficult mostly for his gimmicks and his allies. I suppose that makes the fight significantly harder the more difficult enemies in general are. The boss, like most of the bosses, has specific gimmicks (a second phase and party shuffling with allies that place traps in his case); a team countered by or not ideal to deal with those gimmicks won't do super well, and that's mostly difficulty-independent. I've beaten him on Good Always Wins with a team his setup effectively counters, but I was spamming Dispel like crazy to compensate for the fact my team was constantly triggering things that wouldn't have been triggered had I used a better setup.

Actually, my biggest problem was that he's the only enemy in the game (that I encountered) that can remove buffs on your minions while ignoring wards. I always relied on just stacking up +damage with lost souls ult and suddenly that was no longer possible in the second round.

Now trying Good Always Wins and it seems way way harder, but that also might be because I keep trying out new party compositions.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


Good Always Wins trip report:

Unfrozen/Head Hunter/Dhampire/Widow: first 4 floors went fine, sometimes too easy even, but floor 5 is really difficult. I still think the composition is pretty good (trap + pulls for good damage, everybody can reduce armor, stance cancels that ignore block/wards) but floor 5 is just brutal and I lost a few too many items + made some bad talent decisions.

I've also made it to end of floor 2 with Unfrozen/Blood Phantom/Ghoul/Ghoul and honestly I have no idea how because there's not much synergy at all.

I'm going to try lost soul/lost soul/wraith/shade on GAW now.

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 08:53 on May 4, 2020

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


The most broken minion+item combo I've encountered so far is Fallen Dhampire + Spider Mandibles. Headless Hunter + Mechanical Eye is also pretty strong.

The most broken item otherwise is Orb of Negation. It just solves so many problems.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


Just won on good always wins for the first time. The hardest floor is certainly floor 1 before you get going.

Team composition was 2 lost souls, a banshee and a shade. The "finger of death + shade's voidclaws" combo is simply way too strong. Between shade's unique item, items and artifcats that gave spellpower and lost soul's consume hope I never ran out of mana so I often did it two turns in a row. The final battle was still though, but in hindsight I could have itemised better for it.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


double nine posted:

as someone who enjoyed dankest dungeon what does iratus do better/differently from that eldrich misfortune stimulator?

* Way better at encouraging the player to theorycraft: tons of interesting combo's, way more possible interaction between minions' abilities
* A lot more potential strategies, for a big part because of the health/stress system
* Iratus himself being able to use spells adds another layer of complexity
* Minions being able to equip items adds another layer of complexity (on top of the minion abilities/stat points upgrade system)
* A campaign is a lot shorter

Story/setting/mood is better in darkest dungeon, but in my opinion the combat itself is just way more interesting in Iratus.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


nessin posted:

* Abilities in Iratus are built more to play off other classes so you've got a stronger cohesive party theme, but they are very simplistic and not interesting. Edit: Once you unlock all the classes you can get some engaging depth in the combos, but still not on the level of Darkest Dungeon and you're talking playing for quite some time and multiple runs to get them all.

Can you elaborate about this? It's been a long time since I've played darkest dungeon, so perhaps I'm just not remembering things. That said, I don't remember there being any combo's like how in Iratus you can make a team around shuffling the opposing team (+ abilities that trigger when this happens) or a team around stacking debuffs (+ abilities that trigger on this) or stuff like that. I could easily list 10 interactions between abilities that are interesting in Iratus, in darkest dungeon the only thing I remember is combining abilities that move your own team around?

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Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


nessin posted:

The "engaging depth" is the key part there, Darkest Dungeon doesn't have the direct combos that Iratus does but Iratus is setup such that certain abilities are basically designed to go together such that they are almost pointless on their own and instead are basically a single ability you press multiple buttons to use. Darkest Dungeon you fight until you need a specific end result or big hit, then setup the combo (like say mark, poison, shift position for a big hitter to be in the right spot, then hit), execute it, and then go on with the fight until you need to setup another combo. Iratus is first character press 1, second character press 2, third character press 2, fourth character press 4, then next round 1, 2, 2, 5 (probably a fury spender), then 1, 2, 2, 4, 1, 2, 2, 5, 1, 2, 2, 4, etc... Sure the first ability is your taunt/block, the second is your damage on move shift, the third is a enemy shift position which triggers the 2nd character's damage, and the 4th is a pull to trigger the second character again, and on and on. But it's a set pattern you follow basically 100% of the time until you need a heal, then you heal and go back to the set rotation. Yeah it's a combo but it's no more interesting than an opener to a Darkest Dungeon fight.

That kind of combo you describe in darkest dungeon also exists in Iratus though?

That you think minions in Iratus keep spamming the same abilities is extremely baffling to me to be honest. In my experience this happens much less than in DD, because you shuffle more in Iratus, because of the wrath system, because there are a ton of situational abilities and because you have to take blocks/wards/armor/stances/abilities of the enemies into account.

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