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Shades remain wildly overpowered. Cleared a first full run with two teams, one comprised of a Bride/Lich/Skeleton/Mummy and another that was just two Shades. The first team ran mostly stress, using the Lich to throw up clouds while the Bride and Mummy shuffled things and the Skeleton tanked with stress counters; however, by reorganizing the party and putting the mummy in the back you can still do a decent damage team, which I like. The second team was a dodge-retaliation thing, but I slowly built toward giving both Shades their unique item and Burning Blood, which grants massive stat boosts for empty party slots. Combined with the talent that gives tons of Spellpower for having two or fewer minions, the whole thing snowballs very quickly and whatever your Shades aren't killing, spells will[1]; as if to add insult to injury, I got the Power Fist at one point and it was two-shotting things at easily replenishable mana costs. The only threats are things that ignore evasion, but the other team works well for that because the Skeleton taunts hard and doesn't care about evading anything. Nothing else was really a problem except one Floor 5 enemy, the stance gunners, as Brides and Mummies can't easily stance break things in the fourth slot. My big tip would be to route through Cultists and Sacrificial Altars a lot. Cultists will always provide the unique items for the party you bring (at least for a while; they seemed to stop offering the Shade item eventually), or consumables for empty party slots; sacrifice a Dark Knight at every Altar for an experience book consumable to rocket Iratus's level up for talents. Build the Obelisk and then Library in that order, and do whatever else you need to do as you go, hopefully getting built up by floor 3 or so. Calcination and Distillation are really good; I basically never used the Mortuary when I could just burn a handful of extra parts to heal, but I also had parties that almost never took damage or healed it all back anyway. [1] Shades aren't super great against the Inventor, so I used the stress party against him and the Keymaster, but they completely trivialize the Monster Hunter, whose entire gimmick is that he gets free attacks when your minions act; that just kills him faster because he misses and gets hosed up. Spells do great against the Pyromancer, and the Grand Magister ended up wasting his time attacking my ubertank Skeleton and accomplishing very little.
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# ¿ Apr 26, 2020 02:19 |
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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 13:13 |
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The advantage of stress is that it cascades in a well-made stress team. For example, if you shuffle the heroes with a Banshee/Mummy/Bride and they swap between two Lich clouds, they'll take multiple ticks of cloud stress, then if one dies of a heart attack everybody moves forward, into the clouds, which does the damage again, and every time someone goes insane or dies or sometimes just moves they take little ticks of stress that will cause heart attack checks when at 0; even floor 5 enemies can have their stress heavily depleted quickly. There are also far more gimmicks related to having low health than there are related to having low stress or taking stress damage (though there are one or two nasty ones), and a stress team can freely use the "heal all units to full Vigor" spell because they're not doing Vigor damage anyway. The downside is the randomness factor. Enemies get inspired which can suck (though bear in mind an early insanity can completely cripple them even though they only got stressed once), some of the insanity effects are possibly worse than inspiration (berserk and the one that gives them double actions but damages them are rough), and heart attack checks are RNG. Stress teams tend to want to be tanky to mitigate this, while kill teams can sometimes afford to throw a lot of high damage glass cannon types into the mix and just win before they die (teams that lean on Unfrozen can be like this). I wouldn't say they're totally balanced, as I think you're usually better off just killing things and Shade dodge teams do exactly that very effectively, but I do tend to think stress teams are very safe if built right and will usually ride out a fight where enemies have dangerous gimmicks. The team I mentioned above with Bride/Lich/Mummy/Skeleton is very safe if you focus primarily on defensive measures for everyone but the Bride (who I max out Luck on); take Armor/Resistance on the Skeleton, grab some Blocks for the Mummy and Lich, plaster a Jester's Face on the Skeleton, and most of the incidental damage you'll be taking is chip on the Skeleton. One thing I'd like to try is using two Skeletons, one of whom is a tank with the Enchanted Bone that lets them be buffed, and use the Mediocrity buff on the tank over and over. I'd also like to experiment with a Sacrifice Lich equipped with the Vulture Feather, which allegedly grants a permanent buff when an ally dies, and see how much it can be stacked. Also if there's some way to gain permanent Vigor, a minion that can somehow reach 400+ can become invincible with that equippable that reduces damage taken based on lost health.
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# ¿ Apr 26, 2020 13:55 |
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I have no idea how you're supposed to beat Good Always Wins without just absurd amounts of cheese. My stress build did fine all the way to the Cathedral, same as on regular difficulty, then just got completely annihilated by Gladiator/Paladin packs. I ended up just using Shades the entirety of the final floor, including against the boss (despite his mechanics kind of hosing Shades). It's a fun build though. Finger of Death got down to 5 Mana to cast. I suspect there may be some adjustments made to floors 4 and 5. Until then, I wouldn't consider any build that isn't Accuracy/Evade-centric to be especially viable for the endgame. Didn't seem to be an issue on lower difficulties but it's definitely a thing on GAW.
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# ¿ Apr 26, 2020 20:00 |
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Skeleton tank is very good on floor 5, overall I think Widow is the best tank followed by Golem. Like I said, Shades can handle most things (though you will want Dispel for the Inquisitors and their ignite zone), I'm just wondering what you're supposed to do with a "normal" composition. Just not getting hit seems vastly superior to almost any other option. Spellpower is also incredibly good as enemies can't retaliate against Iratus and you can make spells like Dispel or the two-hit physical (for Block stripping) free. These two factors just happen to coincide in a two Shade party being by far the strongest thing in the game right now, since Shades never get hit, heal themselves of any damage they do take, give Iratus infinite Mana (and Wrath, but dual Shades can't use their ultimates anyway so you just get to 100 for Blood Magic), and also boost Spellpower to the point you can be doing 200 damage with Bone Obelisk/Rain of Gore or hellbuff the Shades with Amok. EDIT: To be clear, the party I'm talking about is literally just a pair of Shades with their minion-specific item and the Boiling Blood trinket that grants extra stats for empty party slots. You then grab the entire passive Ire tree (mainly for the regeneration at 75+ Wrath and Spellpower at 100) and the Destruction passive that grants Iratus 50 Spellpower if there are two or fewer minions alive. The Shades just swap places with their +Evasion skill all day or occasionally use their -Accuracy debuff on single enemies, while you cast spells with all the Mana they refund from their counterattacks. Unquestionably the strongest GAW party that I've come across. Nakar fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 26, 2020 |
# ¿ Apr 26, 2020 21:36 |
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It should definitely be possible to clear Cakewalk and probably More Pain with default classes. Skeleton is super strong and Bride can do a lot of work. It won't be a super optimized build but it should be possible to make both damage and stress teams. Also you can capture Dhampirs in floor 3 and create Vampires with the Blood Curse spell (that's how you unlock them anyway). Liches and Shades and Bone Golems are great but they're not required to make a decent team.
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# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 22:23 |
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Wanted to do into more detail on my stress team build, as I think it's pretty solid having tried it out on both More Pain and Good Always Wins. It definitely has some holes on the highest difficulty but I find it is extremely solid early and it's also versatile. The team in question is Bride, Lich, Skeleton, and Mummy, usually in that party order left to right. The highlights:
Obviously if you can find Shackles of War this team is way better as it prevents Inspiration which is annoying, but in the right circumstances it won't even matter as you can stress something down ludicrously fast. Cascades of three heart attacks in a single action are not uncommon. It can even defeat the Inventor, who is normally not good to fight with a stress team; maybe not so much on GAW, but I regularly defeat the Inventor on More Pain with this team in the stress configuration. Two of the members of this team are default unlocks and the Mummy and Lich are pretty quick to unlock, but if you don't have them you may be able to compensate with a Wraith and Banshee respectively. The Wraith has similar pushing capabilities to the Mummy (better, really) but is significantly more fragile, and the Banshee can punish movement with her stance or debuff enemy Attack which can be useful early, plus she has a stun ult. You can build this team right out of the gate and it should be able to handle Cakewalk with ease as long as you remember to have a second damage-oriented party; hell, it may be able to handle Cakewalk without a second party as long as you reorder the minions before going into a physical-heavy fight. It's also a great party for at least the first 3 floors of GAW.
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# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 18:30 |
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Something I discovered: You can replace the Skeleton with a Wraith for significantly more AoE stress, but it is riskier due to the lack of a tank. The Wraith and Mummy will be fine (if you use the Mummy specific item it can heal tons from the Wraith AoE Cursing), but stray hits on the Bride and Lich can be deadly. A Wraith can also replace the Bride as it does more stress with its push, but there will be times the guaranteed stance break and Ward ignoring save the whole run and Bride pivots to damage better. Also Bride's first skill can be upgraded to stun on crit, which can be a lifesaver if you have the Fate spell. In a desperate situation you can burn mana to stunlock something.
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# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 00:51 |
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Walh Hara posted:- Is the final boss also clearly stronger in higher difficulties compared to "more pain"? I had a pretty easy time on the last floors but the boss was a challenge (in hindsight I should have changed my team for him). 2) Depends how many minions you use. Mid-high 20s seems about right for 2-3 teams, using the same team could hit 30+. If you use a ton of minions I could see ~20 average. It really doesn't matter a ton, minions should be more or less fully developed for skills by the endgame and the rest is just tiny handfuls of stat points that maybe make a tiny bit of difference. 3) Everyone gets a turn every round, yes, but high Initiative is still useful because it influences where things end up in the turn order. The benefit of going first in combat should need no explanation, but it also matters because you can make minions wait and delay their turns until the end of the round. With high enough Initiative, you can delay until the enemies have gone, have minions act, and then they'll act again at the start of the next round. Can potentially set up some powerful combos, or avoid situations like the floor 3 Bards healing someone you're trying to kill by hitting them four times before the Bard has another turn to do so. EDIT: This game is developed by Russians and Russians love them some fuckin' Heroes of Might & Magic III, so it should come as no surprise that the turn order system is very similar to that and knowing how to abuse Wait in Heroes III is pretty important in high-level tactical play. And lest anyone question whether the Unfrozen devs are Heroes III fans, I'll just note there's an artifact called Shackles of War that prevents enemies from retreating and that's literally an artifact in Heroes III that has the same effect. Nakar fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Apr 30, 2020 |
# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 15:11 |
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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 13:13 |
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Walh Hara posted:The most broken minion+item combo I've encountered so far is Fallen Dhampire + Spider Mandibles. Headless Hunter + Mechanical Eye is also pretty strong. I've heard that, at least on More Pain, a solo Vampire with Boiling Blood can also be nearly invincible since she gets jacked stats and can heal any damage she takes every turn, but I haven't managed to try that one out.
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# ¿ May 5, 2020 02:57 |