Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Okay, so a lot of people are mad about Picard. That's fair. A lot of people aren't happy with how it was handled, or where it went, or the tone, or the characterization. You're allowed to feel that way. This is not a thread about that, though.

Prior to "Picard" and movies we should not acknowledge and in fact I'm going to confidently maintain, for the purposes of the thread, are not canon (Nemesis, Star Trek 2009, Into Darkness, Beyond Spockerdome), things were sort of left off at the end of DS9/Voyager after the Dominion War. This is also because Enterprise, a bad show, was a prequel, and bad. But this isn't the thread for that either. Or the thread about STO, which is not canon, as confidently asserted by me, here and now.

This is the thread for fixing it all. For your DREAMTREK.

Tell me what you wanted to see after DS9/Voyager. The events you wanted to see happen. Who you wanted to see doing it.

Did Sisko come back to be with his family?

Did Janeway go to space jail?

Did the Romulans become our friends and then the Romulan Star Empire became the Romulan Friend Empire?



But here's the important catch: you are not allowed to feel bad about what you say, and no one is allowed to make fun of the fact that you said something dorky.

THREAD RULE: GOOD FAITH & GOOD ATTITUDES

e: RULE 2: not too horny, ok?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
For example, it is an essential part of my DREAMTREK that the Federation does not absorb any further established governments. Instead, those governments choose to liberalize and they work cooperatively with the Federation. The Federation and what it stands for can expand without consuming the Romulan Star Empire (i.e. the Romulan Friend Empire). Romulus is NOT destroyed.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Olewithmilk posted:

i would now like a mini-series now where sisko returns to his physical form ¬20 years later, and him having to deal with his son and partner ageing and whatever the hell has happened to the Federation in the intervening time period. like that episode where the lonley kid alien makes Riker think he has amnesia and he's forgotten 10 years, but also with the Defiant and some good ship battles for some reason.

I misread the thread idea, because it's late and I've had wines and beers, I will think more on this.

No, this is basically correct. This is a Dreamtrek.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

oh but seriously I posted:

There is a Drow (Dark Elf {Dark Vulcan}) race. They are explicitly not Romulans and constantly mock them for being try-hard edge-lords

you can't have me say nemesis doesn't count as canon and then use your dream to make nemesis canon :saddowns:

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

thrilla in vanilla posted:

Mirror universe episodes are cool, and good, at least until discovery anyway.

My dream is a follow up to ds9 that starts with the return of sisko with the amount of time between da9 ending and now having passed in universe. Garak and bashir operate a haberdashery together. Quark owns a freighter that delivers fine textiles and muslin. A sinister laugh echoes through the fire caves. Jake sisko lives with three sexy ladies.

Which three??

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

DancingShade posted:

Dreamtrek? I want a series that looks near-identical to the 1960s era show. Complete with period/retro costumes, props, sound effects, etc. Modern CGI where necessary of course.

I'm talking brightly colored pyjama shirts, disco mini dresses, hairstyles unseen outside of retirement homes and people punching "aliens" who are clearly actors with extra makeup and wacky costumes. All done with some level of self awareness.

My pitch for the series? If That 70s Show can work then so can this. Plus by design they can get away with cheap looking sets made of authentic cardboard.

another good dreamtrek :hmmyes:

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Deep range probes have detected what appears to be a gateway, located in a distant star system, that either leads to another galaxy or to another dimension entirely. As the probe neared the system, interference increased until the probe could no longer maintain communications, and the probe has not been heard from since. This demands investigation: is it a gateway? Where does it go? What lies beyond?

Given the extreme distance and importance of this discovery, the Federation has decided that this task is too vital and possibly too large to entrust to any single starship.

A flotilla of starships, led and supported by its Galaxy-class flagship (which will, with this series premise and modern production technique, finally be allowed to fully flourish in its multi-role capacity), makes its way from the Federation frontier out into the great unexplored mass of the galaxy, to find and investigate a mysterious gateway. Along the way, they will explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, and boldly go where no one has gone before.


The following summaries should not be considered exhaustive rundowns of what would happen in each year of the show, but rather an attempt to illustrate the tone that the series would take in each year.

Year One:

The flotilla assembles in the outer reaches of the Federation. A few stories with familiar trappings (a Federation colony in trouble, a Romulan ship skulking around, a pompous rear end at a starbase makes trouble) as they make their way outbound. A celebration as the ships officially push out beyond where any Starfleet ship has ever gone before, and an appropriate ceremony for those in the crew who have never before been out to Deep Space. News that one of the other deep range probes has been retasked to also approach the gateway star system ahead of the flotilla. Contact with a spacedwelling form of life.


Year Two:

First Contact with a heretofore unknown civilization. One of the smaller ships suffers frequent malfunctions, slowing down progress and causing substantial frustration among the flotilla, and even leading to a question of whether to send her back to Federation space (they figure it out and get going again, eventually). The second probe that was redirected in the first year suffers the same fate as the first probe, but not before sending back confusing data contradictory to what was previously received from the first probe. A friendly competition between the ships in the flotilla results in both a tragedy and a triumph. A space trading post is discovered: some of the crew experience adventure (and misadventure) here as they enjoy some shore leave; the flotilla commanders argue the perils and promise of bargaining for information with technology; and more information about the gateway system is also found, possibly at the cost of tipping others off that something important is there. The flotilla nears the gateway star system.


Year Three:

As the flotilla approaches the gateway star system, their communications with Starfleet (already at great delay and minimal bandwidth) degrade into uselessness. The wreckage of one of the probes is discovered; engineers determine that it appears to have destroyed itself deliberately. The challenges of acting as mobile starbase to several other starships while maintaining herself stretches (but does not quite break) the limits of the flagship. A small fleet of unknown starships waits in orbit of one of the planets of the gateway star system; at first thought of as sentries, they seem to neither challenge the flotilla nor respond to its hails, despite clearly being powered up and active, and appearing to communicate with each other. The gateway is investigated. The flotilla's mettle is severely tested by what appears to be a very ancient artifact of enormous size and power, and unknown purpose.


In part because this is a bit by the seat of my pants, and also because I'm not a great writer, I don't know (yet) what the mystery or nature of the gateway would ultimately be. I do think there should be quite a bit of Awe involved; a momentous, overwhelming occasion for even the most experienced and competent Starfleet officers.


In my mind the flotilla (or at least, elements of it) would return to Federation space, with at least a handful of episodes showing the voyage back, letting the characters decompress a bit, and having a couple of minor adventures along the way - maybe have them superficially similar to ones experienced near the beginning of the show, so as to illustrate how this experience has changed Our Heroes. I'm not certain if this should be a full Year Four or perhaps just an epilogue.



tl;dr - my dream Star Trek would be one that gets the hell away from so much of the astropolitical cruft that's built up in Trek over the years, strikes out into the unknown, attempts to restore a sense of awe and wonder at the Final Frontier, and cherishes the camaraderie and values held by people who come from a fundamentally more just society than the one we live in today.

and, admittedly, indulges a little in flexing the design capabilities of a starship many of us love but never quite got to see fully spread its wings because of production limitations of the past.

yes.... yes

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
vash seduces ezri dax. she still hits bashir on the head with a rolling pin.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
"That's for the awkward acting when you were zhintaraing me!!"

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Barudak posted:

The show focuses on a smaller frigate, like five people total not a ship of the line, and their various ongoing missions which tend to involve lots of PR work, security, and dealing with the Maquis and other anti-communist factions. No great overarching mega-narrative, no "this will decide the fate of the galaxy" just a small group doing their tour of duty and rarely getting into active gunfights.

Ship in the bottle episode: Captain and [vip]'s shuttle craft is damaged and presumed lost in enemy territory. VIP is freaking out that theyre going to die while captain calmly tells the VIP the story of why the captain personally chose their second in command to be on this ship. At the end it culminates in revealing they were in the same class, the captain just graduated higher in the grade because they both took the kyobashi maru exam, with the captain leaving the kyobashi to their fate and the second in command exhausting every option to rescue them, just as the captain and [vip] are rescued by the second in command who never stopped searching.

that's a good episode :hmmyes:

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
one of my DREAMTREK notions would actually be going back and changing the dominion war, it's out of the scope of this thread, however I made this thread... so i can do what i want

quote:

I’ve always sort of disliked the Dominion War.

HERE’S STUFF I WISH HAD HAPPENED:

I mean you have to start with the groundwork: what is the Dominion War arc trying to achieve from a thematic standpoint? I’d say that ideally, it should cover the “role of war” in conflict between cultures, and how the Federation–as a highly ideological institution–perceives war, what strategies are applied under what circumstances, and whether this approach is justified and/or written as effective. (This is why the really good DW-arc episodes, like Under the Pale Moonlight and The Siege of AR-558 work so well.)

That doesn’t mean every episode has to address this concern exactly, but I think it should be the strong focus of the Dominion War arc overall. (For example, Once More Unto the Breach is one of my favorite episodes but it exists somewhat independent of the themes that characterize the Dominion War arc.) I also think that the writers would largely agree about the importance of some of these themes, although I don’t think that the way that the show went about addressing these things was as effective as it could have been.

As a somewhat parallel but related note, I would strip out anything that felt like it had a “destiny” aspect. Star Trek is supposed to present a world of opportunity, and “destiny” narratives not only tend to rob characters of agency (and therefore undercut the significance of whatever choices they are making), but also divide characters into two camps: those who are allowed to matter, and those who are not. So, for example, I would have Sisko be the Bajoran “Emissary”, and allow that to have explicit cultural meaning on Bajor. However, I would never explicitly define what that meant for Sisko–I would never make it clear if the wormhole aliens themselves care about Sisko, guide him, or affect outcomes that affect him. Maybe they are! Maybe they’re not! Making decisions in the “listened to the wormhole aliens, who are right / try to resist for 15 minutes before coming around” space robs Sisko of the successes he derives from his own competence, virtue, and ambitions. It also unnecessarily highlights his character shield, implying he also doesn’t face normal consequences for his actions, which betrays their significance.

If it’s “destiny”, it’s banned!!

I think the starting position of Deep Space 9 is basically perfect for this conflict. I wouldn’t really change anything at the outset. You have a space station above recently-occupied Bajor, Sisko has taken over the leadership position there, and his friend Dax joins him as newly-minted Jadzia Dax, spots and all. (Just to be clear, this doesn’t exist in my “alien redesign” world, though it could, I don’t think it would make any difference?) Sisko’s wife did recently pass away, and Jake is with him on the station, being a kid.

Kira was a successful resistance fighter but not someone inherently super influential, and she’s there to ensure Bajoran interests are upheld. It’s not really a plumb position but it’s not bad, and it’s a testament to her diligence, intelligence, and capability. O’Brien is there as a highly-competent engineer who is thought to be able to repair and maintain a Cardassian station. His wife, Keiko, is there with him and in this timeline she actually gets to be involved in goings-on but that’s another story. Bashir, the hyper-competent if somewhat overzealous doctor is there, ready to do good with limited resources. Garak’s still a 95% burn-notice’d spy in exile. Quark has his bar and his brother Rom is there to assist him along with his son Nog. Odo is the changeling security officer who they inherited along with the station. So, the only real difference being that Sisko’s role as the “Emissary” is still culturally clear, but in real terms, highly ambiguous.

I’d also start off the series the same way: the stable wormhole opens and DS9 becomes more influential. I don’t know if I’d have it extend all the way to the Delta Quadrant though–maybe just some place well out of known space. At that stage, DS9 goes from backwater junker to essentially the sessile form of the Enterprise: neat aliens and interesting conflicts come to it, but the format is similar. And I’d also give that a few years of breathing room to get to know the characters and develop their dynamics. At that point, gears start turning.

The Cardassian government starts churning a little. Gul Dukat should have been associated with the occupation of Bajor, but whether it’s a little too “cute” that he ran DS9 (or inappropriately small-scale) and it runs against my beef with “destiny”, I’m not sure. But anyway, he becomes a rising political power on Cardassia. He’s charismatic and superficial; he’s addicted to attention and validation from others. He does actually cut a figure that is effective as a leader–people like to follow this guy. He is backed up by the stoic Damar, who is substantially less cunning than Dukat, but wise and a careful strategist. As a team, they carve a powerful political niche in the Cardassian Union.

Okay, here’s where stuff starts to get radically different:

Dukat is part of the political contingent who hammer out an alliance with the Romulans to attack the Klingon Empire. (This might also leverage a connection Tain had developed, that’s not super important.) The Romulans like this idea because they can get rid of one of their contentious borders and focus their efforts on the Neutral Zone. The Cardassians like this idea because they know that the Romulans will take the brunt of the casualties and damage (particularly since the Cardassians and Klingons don’t border in most maps I’ve seen), and they still get to remove a significant threat, as well as pick up necessary resources from conquered worlds. The Romulans aren’t as resource-hungry as the Cardassians, so it’s a rather sensible divide for the two.

The Klingons start taking a beating, and the Federation must decide what–if anything–to do. It’s not to suggest that the Federation and the Klingons are suddenly buddies, but there’s a lot to fear in a successful Romulan/Cardassian alliance. (Aside: For the purposes of the scenario, please assume there are Romulan characters who matter in DS9….) A few ideas are bandied around:

1. Suggest to the Klingon Empire that the Federation assist the Klingons directly. Rationale: If the R/C alliance is successful, then Federation-controlled worlds are likely next. (Well, after they clean up any minor powers they feel like, such as the Tzenkethi.) Detractors point out that actually, taking ownership of the Klingon Empire–assuming that the R/C alliance even wins!–will probably keep them busy for a while, and it does get rid of the Klingon, a perennial thorn in the Federation’s side. If the R/C alliance fails, then all of the Federation’s major rival powers will come out the worse for wear, putting the Federation in a strong relative position.

2. Suggest that the Federation assist the Klingons covertly. Mostly the same rationale as above, although it introduces some duplicity and wouldn’t be as outright effective. If it’s never uncovered then everything is fine, if it is, then that’s a black eye for the Federation’s reputation (not that the Romulans or Cardassians would disagree with the logic!)

3. Do nothing. Firstly, it’s not the Federation’s war to fight. Furthermore, letting your enemies duke it out while you keep your own nose clean is quite appealing. The downside is, among other things, that the Federation lost the opportunity to develop and active stance and acquire possible benefits. The Federation benefits in relative terms and will likely end in a strong position, but is also likely to be targeted in the future by any continuing R/C alliance.

4. Offer to join with the Romulans and the Cardassians! The advantages are many. This combined alliance would be virtually guaranteed to win against the Klingon, perhaps so decisively that causalities are comparatively limited. The Federation could also bargain for amenable borders, or the return of worlds conquered by the Klingon, in return for their assistance. This also puts the Federation in a better position to bargain with the Romulans or Cardassians in the future if either party would rather join with the powerful Federation than the other for any future major conflicts. Instead of the Federation looking down the gun of the R/C alliance (with whatever benefits come from having taken Klingon space), suddenly the Tal’Shiar is knocking at their backdoor asking if the Federation might just be interested in knocking out the Cardassians.

This is a major conflict among contingents within the Federation, and they spend quite a while arguing it. During this time, during unrelated expeditions through the wormhole, Sisko & Co. discover the changeling homeworld. Odo is very excited.

The changelings have a bit of an ordered (and teensy bit apparently fascist) bent. However, their powers–which, as in DS9 proper, are better developed than Odo’s–present endless possibilities for subterfuge. Ultimately, someone informs the Federation of the changelings, and a determination is made: the Federation will select #3–they will not become directly involved in this war. For now, anyway. However, they will form a compact with the changelings, and send them to infiltrate every side of the conflict: Romulan, Cardassian, and Klingon.

The Federation presumes that the changelings are in earnest, even though there doesn’t seem to be much that the Federation is offering them. The changelings claim they protect themselves by knowing what is going on and being aware of threats, which makes some sense (especially given their tale of historical abuses from solids). Odo vouches for them, and he’s always been a pillar of the community. The Federation is largely enthusiastic to take them on board, and not critical. Sisko is considerably more suspicious, but he is not heeded by his higher-ups.

Sisko and others are also concerned that this is a substantial violation of the Federation’s values and sets a horrible precedent for how the Federation engages with other sovereign governments. I mean sure, he accepts that spies exist. Other governments have provably used them against the Federation, and the Federation has spies. It’s not okay, but it’s an established, historical practice. However, what’s missing with the changelings is almost a sense of fair play. A changeling is an espionage superweapon, of which the other major players are unaware, and they are being used in what is technically a time for peace for the Federation, to exploit a war that is gruesome in extent and brutality.

The Klingon Empire eventually falls, and though a few rebel forces remain (rising particularly from the civilian population), the Empire is essentially gutted and billions of Klingons die.

Jadzia is aware of the “logic” underlying the Federation’s approach, but she never forgives it. In her mind, once it was clear the Klingon really would fight to the last warrior, and that this would entail de facto genocide in defeat, and that the Federation might have been able to curtail it, but instead sought to leverage it, she loses all respect for the Federation as a government. She continues to serve in Starfleet as a way to help Sisko during these difficult times, and support him in his criticism of the Federation’s chosen strategy (as well as promote the interests of the remaining Klingons, some of which are orphans and refugees). There are times when she considers sabotaging official Starfleet missions and etc. She serves but considers herself an apostate.

Given his experience in espionage, Garak’s brought into the thinktank on the matter. (That he’s trusted at all is a function of the Bashir link still developing in this version of events.) Garak’s not a fan of the changelings either, and had told Sisko as much. The Federation has no real leverage over the changelings and are just as vulnerable to the techniques they are teaching the Changelings to use against the Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassian Union. Sisko agrees but still views it in an ideological space, not an existential-threat space.

Dukat gains power and popularity for his role in promoting the alliance and subsequent war, defeating the Klingons, and improving the Cardassian resource base. Thus far it all seems to have been a good move and he’s now an influential Legate. He’s the talker and the firebrand but as usual, Damar’s the one crunching numbers about what their next move should be. It’s worth noting that Damar is perfectly happy with this arrangement, and given Cardassian culture, sees it as a safe and effective position from which to promote his agenda under the guise of it being Dukat’s. Dukat is almost like an assassination-mulligan.

There’s also some Romulan who should have existed, I’m going to make it Cretak because she deserved better, who is the face of the Romulans and is enjoying complementary boons in reputation and status among the Romulans, so this alliance has been going relatively well. There have been some arguments and misunderstandings, but ultimately the prize was so good, and the Obsidian Order / Tal’Shiar so evenly matched that they’re making a good go of it.

The Federation hears about the inner workings of this alliance via its changeling agents. Members of the Federation become increasingly concerned. They’re hearing about plans involving inviting, conquering, or even slaughtering the Gorn and the Breen. No one is talking about wholesale war with the Federation–yet–but they’re down in ships and exhausted, with many officers dead. Admittedly, it wouldn’t be the right time to attack the Federation still at its full force.

However, someone in the Federation gets the idea to play the Federation’s relative strength for a further advantage. The changelings are ordered to begin trying to upset the R/C alliance and to promote distrust and animosity between the two factions, and in fact to try to instigate another war.

What could be better for the Federation than for the Romulans and Cardassians, already weakened and trying to maintain control over a vast new territory, to go to war themselves? Whoever should win, they would both be further weakened, and yes, it’s being suggested that the Federation could then rapidly swoop in and overcome the victor. I mean it’s sneaky, perhaps, but imagine–a Federation bordered by no powerful enemies at all. Sure, the Breen are still out there, for now, but get serious. No more Neutral Zone, no more DMZ, and no Klingon border. It’s a dream come true and you don’t get chances like this every day.

Sisko literally thinks this is the most horrific, reprehensible thing he’s ever heard. Jadzia agrees and is apoplectic. Kira sort of likes the plan, since she’s distraught at the recent successes of the Cardassians and is worried for Bajor’s future if Cardassia remains strong on a trajectory to become stronger. Bashir abhors war and can’t support it. O’Brien is on the fence but generally thinks it’s wrong, though he understands the appeal. (What they don’t know is that Garak has managed to smuggle word out to Tain, so the Cardassians are quietly pretending to be unaware of the changelings, but are learning to identify them and mislead them, throwing as much false intel as possible back to the Federation. The Romulans, however, still don’t know, and the Cardassians are using that fact–I mean, they can’t really help themselves, an advantage like that.)

Jadzia publicly breaks the news of the changelings to the Romulans and the Cardassians (or so she thinks, in the latter’s case). This is a huge violation of everything ever and she knows it. However, it’s a principled stand against a Federation she views as willing to profit from bloodshed. The Romulans, led by Cretak, are furious, and the Cardassians, via Dukat, come out as publicly also furious!

This has an unexpected effect: it’s the changelings who flip. Suddenly, they transition to the next stage of what was their ultimate plan: destroy any powerful contingent of solids. See, from day one, they felt any powerful union of solids was a threat; changelings disdain and fear disorder, so their goal was always to drive the Alpha Quadrant to as many wars as possible, including eventual civil war within the Federation, to break up these powerful forces into smaller, disorganized communities, and destroy them.

(And of course, they had already been installing agents in the Federation as well.)

Odo is heartbroken. He had no idea!

Garak is quite annoyed because he absolutely thought this would happen.

Jadzia is suddenly unsure of whether she did the right thing by coming forward.

Kira admits she was wrong to let her obsession with the Cardassians lead her to promoting immoral strategies and that her own perspective was, in a way, one of war profiteering (if not for latinum).

Quark uses the opportunity to make a point about dishonesty within bounds.

Sisko is so mad because he sort of thinks the Federation kind of deserves it for what they’ve done!

The changelings immediately do a ton of damage. The Federation, Cardassian Union, and Romulan Star Empire quickly realize that their only hope is to join forces to try to identify and drive out the changelings before it is too late. The Cardassians do have to admit that they knew about the changelings and had a few techniques for identifying and waylaying them. The Romulans are mad about that but they’re in a tight spot and will have to save that tantrum for later.

Eventually, after working together and countless painful losses, the changelings are identified and driven out. How this is done exactly, and where they go, and what is done with them–eh. Maybe they’re given some sort of place to be roughly equivalent to Megan where they can feel confidently safe, who knows.

What’s important is it leaves behind a Federation that has seen the ugly side of compromising its values, and has a damaged reputation among the system. There is some shuffling among the leadership of the Federation, and anyone who promoted the changeling plan is at best blacklisted from high office or major influential positions.

Oh, also at some point Dukat dies and Damar has to take over, which works out well for the future since he’s not nearly as aggressive as Dukat and is fine with Cardassia working to now improve its internal strength and be at relative peace with the other bordering governments. Cretak can stay leader through it all because she is neat & cool, and good for her making it to the endgame, you know?

The Romulans, Federation, and Cardassians emerge overall wounded-but-intact, and there’s something to be said for the fact that they’ve just defeated a greater foe–together!–but they’ve also seen an ugly side of one another, and still maintain significantly different cultural values, some of which are outright detestable to the others. What will happen from here isn’t clear–there’s a moment of genuine peace among these historical enemies, and though everyone is grateful for it, there is still the lingering notion that war, someday in the future, may again be an inevitability as memory fades and powerful interests seek to raise the stakes.

Sisko and all are left to consider what choices they made along the way and whether they did the right thing. Character arcs reach logical conclusions–Jadzia has still become Ezri, for example, probably due to an execution from someone or other. Garak’s exile is lifted based on his role in assisting Cardassia from DS9. I didn’t talk about him but Rom still joins Starfleet and does have a valuable perspective–one that would have been valuable when assessing big questions earlier, but was not available due to Ferengi being largely brushed off even in areas where they can be very keen. Perhaps Odo is made the warden for the other changelings. The major questions to chew on are:

1. Is it right to be interventionist in wars that do not immediately affect your direct interests? What is the role of neutral governments?

2. What strategies are appropriate against “rival” forces that are not explicitly hostile?

3. What strategies are appropriate against hostile forces?

4. What is the appropriate level of transparency for a government? How much transparency should governments exhibit with one another?

5. What alliances can be justified and under what circumstances?

6. What is the dividing line between being justifiably opportunistic and being exploitative?

Sisko comes out largely justified: he believes in genuine Federation values, and promoted them. But… could he have done more? Should he?

ANYWAY, that’s how I wish the Dominion War played out.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
thank you

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
i dream of trek

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Beats dreaming of anything else!!

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

hard counter posted:

yeah, pretty sound overall

if you were to do a war-heavy trek the ethical/moral issues at stake when someone wants to come and kick over your delicate utopia are those you'd want to thoughtfully focus on to maintain the trek spirit, especially in contrast to just focusing on the spectacle/thrill/dread of war and disappearing into the spirit of straight military scifi

thank you. i believe that trek should only explore war as it explores ethical conduct in wartime situations (where war should absolutely be a last resort and, imho, the federation should absolutely never ever ever ever be the instigator*)

* this is because, despite what some people might think from my Hot Takes, the federation is GOOD and represents the GOOD that society and civilization and etc is capable of. perhaps some PEOPLE can fail "the federation" and what it stands for in whatever capacity they represent the Federation, but the Federation ITSELF is just, and good

anyone who tries to corrupt the federation, should be shown to be wrong, and the federation should be shown to be its most powerful when it ultimately chooses to be ethical even under the greatest duress

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Squizzle posted:

star trek shows a future where our better nature charts the course of humanity

this guy gets it

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Statutory Ape posted:

we also find out that lt cmdr worf's cranial ridges fit into my rear end crack perfectly, which enables us to have quite the epic game of chicken in the holo-pool


also ensign mendon/mendak is a regular bridge officer

E: actually they both are because lmao

e2: ok thats really all the changes i needed made

*nods*

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Barudak posted:

The episode involves helping pursue an escaped criminal on a planet the federation want to bring into the fold but is officially neutral. The species of the planet are evolved from speed hunters and rub against what they perceive as slow humans both physically and the beaucracy humans love. Quickly it becomes a race to track down the escapee with the federation crew forced to work on their own after multiple times the federation gets near the eacapee only to have him sprint away from their slower moving away lead officer.

At the end of the episode, the away lead on foot catches up with the criminal who the leaders of the planet have written off as escaped. The escaped criminal, completely exhausted, is unable to mount even token resistance and the lead officer captures him without a struggle. The captain explains to his utterly dumbfounded counterpart from the species military that humans evolved from a very different species, one that used persistance to hunt. The now terrified species military officers make a report to their leadership, realizing that the federation helping them, here along with their other projects and treaties, was probably just another piece of the hunt of bringing their world into the federation and that his species isnt able to see that its happening to them.

good good. this is classic trek. this is trek to the core of trek. this is star trek, a star trek episode

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

mind the walrus posted:

Full-on Harry Potter-style Starfleet Academy show. Make it loving happen.

They actually got as far as concept art for this

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
a'ight, a'ight, careful, we're getting good dreamtreks in there, I am 100% on board with ragging on the new ships, but this is a thread for dreams and joyful thoughts

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

mind the walrus posted:

Can you elaborate on this? I want to believe for positivity's sake but isn't it a bit hard to generate a series when you canonically can't show the antagonists' faces, but any audience member willing to do a little legwork knows exactly who they are and what they're about?

I know people really like balance of terror, but yeah I think that you would ultimately have to show them. But I think you could still make it work

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

BoldFrankensteinMir posted:

Another thing I always wanted to see- the Eugenics war of 1997. Be bold about it, actually set it in 1997, just do like a Fallout thing where you directly tell the audience the timeline has shot off from reality, probably in 1986 when the time-traveling enterprise crew just flat-out handed future tech to human engineers. Maybe transparent aluminum was the missing piece to making Khan. Scotty wanted to save some whales but inadvertently caused SuperCrispr or whatever, we see society crumbling in what is supposed to be World War III, which finally ends in the terse trial that settles on the Botany Bay answer instead of just executing all the augments, and there are people saying "well what if they come back? What if somebody finds them???". And all that's left of pre-warp human culture is dispersed forest bands like Zefram Cochrane and his rocketeers.

Too bad that second NuTrek movie ruined all of that, oh well!

I agree but I'd have it be from some other event because ST:Voyage Home deserves to be whimsical and beloved for its purity and whimsicality.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Statutory Ape posted:

also we should save the whales

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Peanut President posted:

also his science officer should be a gorn, rehabilitate them fuckers

YOU DON'T HAVE TO REHABILITATE THEM PEANUT PRESIDENT, THEY HAVE PEACEFUL RELATIONS WITH THE FEDERATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



HE HAS A SPRITZER, PEANUT PRESIDENT

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Peanut President posted:

look I just want a Gorn to just be hanging out. It's one of the reasons I don't like all these new star trek shows that insist on new aliens, just use the gorn or andorians or whatever

yes. many gorn.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
They were squabbling over a single colony and Kirk let the Gorn go.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Oooooo I like that too

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
there is a Lot of good content in this thread, Thank You

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply