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 , but china
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Apr 26, 2020 08:46
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bluewolf78 posted:ok, so you're missing the overall point. when I reject a part because an outsourced company didn't build it to the drawing, our company charges $500 per incident. When this is finally resolved, we have usually written up on the average 5 different instances. Because after we identify the problem, and relay the return on experience to them. They continue to send the bad parts because we haven't changed something in our system. So in the end, the non conforming part tends to cost us twice as much as if we had it built locally. And normally, we have it reworked locally so we can keep our production schedule on time. So please tell me where sending non conforming parts is saving us money? The majority of our out sources suppliers send us non conforming parts that I have to waste my time on to get them reworked locally where if we just had them made locally to start, we wouldn't be wasting all of this processing time. So yes, the initial price is cheaper, but the rework and reprocessing costs tend to make it more expensive than if we just had it done locally to start. Please, i would love to hear your response to this. Why are you posing these questions to us rather than your boss? We're not the ones making these decisions.
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Apr 26, 2020 08:46
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Burt Sexual posted:This sounds America ra ra. Germany makes some good poo poo i hear. I think there are many others. well, I think our real issue is in our networking. We have a resource that we constantly contract for rework. We asked them in the past if they could take on an international contract. They simply said 'no' What they should have done was resourced other similar suppliers and created a conglomerate(sp?) I find this a lot in American Manufacturing, that if they can't handle the contract in full, they don't want to work with a partner to keep it in the country. Then we contract to a company outsourced that later claims they can't keep up with the demand. Usually because they were no bigger than the company down the street. This is an attitude we need to fix in America if we want to keep thing being really made in America. I think anyway.
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Apr 26, 2020 08:50
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:It's not a problem with the people doing the job. Putting the cart before the horse, that's not an individual behavior problem. It's a behavior that is enforced, and rewarded, systemically. How much value is captured when a consumer only buys once? Doesn't make any sense. Just look at the OP's company, they were forced to make the same old poo poo. The economic forces pushed them into that position because making the best train motor in the world isn't as profitable and when trouble comes those companies will be least able to cope due to their margins. It sounds nice, doesn't actually make sense.
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Apr 26, 2020 08:52
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Japanese manufacturing blows America out of the water and it's not even close.
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Apr 26, 2020 08:54
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We should improve society somewhat
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Apr 26, 2020 08:54
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Not to mention there's basically a huge distribution network already built up with epz's and whatnot, economy of scale baby
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Apr 26, 2020 08:54
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Pinche Rudo posted:Japanese manufacturing blows America out of the water and it's not even close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQa4HHkhwVg
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Apr 26, 2020 08:55
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Pinche Rudo posted:Japanese manufacturing blows America out of the water and it's not even close. But you've also got to consider that back in the day labour in Japan was fairly cheap due to the economy at the time, however everyone knows Japanese manafacturing is superior, so I don't imagine it's that cost effective to outsource to Japan as an American company.
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Apr 26, 2020 08:56
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Flowers for QAnon posted:Have you ever considered that your experience is the exception, and not the rule? Just because your company can’t manage their supply chain, doesn’t mean others can’t. I would really hope that is the case. Thanks for the insight 
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Apr 26, 2020 08:58
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TatoPancakes posted:But you've also got to consider that back in the day labour in Japan was fairly cheap due to the economy at the time, however everyone knows Japanese manafacturing is superior, so I don't imagine it's that cost effective to outsource to Japan as an American company. I should have included the quote I was responding to bluewolf78 posted:To be honest, I think the good old USA does still make the best poo poo on the planet. It costs more, but you should understand that you're getting quality work.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:00
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Homeless Friend posted:Putting the cart before the horse, that's not an individual behavior problem. It's a behavior that is enforced, and rewarded, systemically. How much value is captured when a consumer only buys once? Doesn't make any sense. Just look at the OP's company, they were forced to make the same old poo poo. The economic forces pushed them into that position because making the best train motor in the world isn't as profitable and when trouble comes those companies will be least able to cope due to their margins. It sounds nice, doesn't actually make sense. Re read the original post. My post was broad, but I think the core argument of americans not caring is still systematic. Cherry picking this one line: bluewolf78 posted:If we are choosing these companies over well qualified American companies, then why do we spend so much time kicking their products back over stupid defects. Yeah? Why? Which one of the OP's bosses doesn't just cut the contract with people make bad quality items? And if they keep not cutting the contract that means it is probably profitable in some round about way, or stupid. There are probably a lot of people in his company who can go to this other company who is making cheap items and go "you're fired. We're going to get somebody else." Edit: the OP getting mad at the other people not doing their job is a waste of energy if the OP can't force any consequences onto them. They're still getting paid, they don't have to give a gently caress. mazzi Chart Czar fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 09:07
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And to that I'd agree with his sentiment, America was the top dog when it came to quality, but unfortunately it's current capitalist status quo does not let it shine as bright as it once did, the drive for quality just doesn't exist in America anymore, it's all about profit margins and milking everything out of the working man while the rich prosper.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:09
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TatoPancakes posted:And to that I'd agree with his sentiment, America was the top dog when it came to quality, but unfortunately it's current capitalist status quo does not let it shine as bright as it once did, the drive for quality just doesn't exist in America anymore, it's all about profit margins and milking everything out of the working man while the rich prosper. When did America make top quality items. Probably different for every item manufactured. But Ford Pinto. 1971 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgOxWPGsJNY
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Apr 26, 2020 09:13
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Cherry picking this one line: Yeah? Why? Which one of the OP's bosses doesn't just cut the contract with people make bad quality items? And if they keep not cutting the contract that means it is probably profitable in some round about way, or stupid. There are probably a lot of people in his company who can go to this other company who is making cheap items and go "you're fired. We're going to get somebody else." [/quote] I really wish it was that easy. Truth is, the way the system works, it doesn't dime down to the actual operator that created the defect. So to me, when I find a defect, it is the responsibility of the entire team. Which is not fair. However, I have no other way to determine the source of the defect other than trusting what one individual says against another. That system doesn't really work. So we try to train the entire team (many times) to help get rid of the defects. I do roam the floor and try to assist Production members when I see they are doing something incorrectly. But that still isn't the right way to do this. I believe that my company is really bad at pro-active quality and we just use various forms of reactive quality to try to compensate. In the end, it's not fair for the Production worker that may be having issues learning the particular standard.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:13
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:Re read the original post. My post was broad, but I think the core argument of americans not caring is still systematic. yeh im saying its a feature, the reason americans can throw it away is because it actually is cheaper to buy a new one. workers and even the factory owners overseas get squeezed to make that happen. Now there is environmental cost, but those arent immediately realized and much more fuzzy. Hell even that was outsourced lol
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Apr 26, 2020 09:13
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:When did America make top quality items. Probably different for every item manufactured. But Ford Pinto. 1971 I hear they make the highest weight capacity mobility scooters known to mankind, that's gotta be something.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:16
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TatoPancakes posted:And to that I'd agree with his sentiment, America was the top dog when it came to quality, but unfortunately it's current capitalist status quo does not let it shine as bright as it once did, the drive for quality just doesn't exist in America anymore, it's all about profit margins and milking everything out of the working man while the rich prosper. yes, I completely agree with that. we have grown away from making a good product in lieu of profit. I do understand that is what makes business work. But it is possible to make a profit and still make the best product money can buy. The issue that most of the world is concerned with isn't making the best product, but the cheapest product money can buy. That is where the root cause of the whole issue is.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:16
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bluewolf78 posted:I really wish it was that easy. Truth is, the way the system works, it doesn't dime down to the actual operator that created the defect. So to me, when I find a defect, it is the responsibility of the entire team. Which is not fair. However, I have no other way to determine the source of the defect other than trusting what one individual says against another. That system doesn't really work. So we try to train the entire team (many times) to help get rid of the defects. I do roam the floor and try to assist Production members when I see they are doing something incorrectly. But that still isn't the right way to do this. I believe that my company is really bad at pro-active quality and we just use various forms of reactive quality to try to compensate. In the end, it's not fair for the Production worker that may be having issues learning the particular standard. Are you the boss? Can you make the choice to stop letting this other company gently caress you over?
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Apr 26, 2020 09:19
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Homeless Friend posted:yeh im saying its a feature, the reason americans can throw it away is because it actually is cheaper to buy a new one. workers and even the factory owners overseas get squeezed to make that happen. Now there is environmental cost, but those arent immediately realized and much more fuzzy. Hell even that was outsourced lol So it's a feature. The native Americans were all like, "we'll kill this buffalo and take only a pound of its meat and leave the rest to rot in the sun."
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Apr 26, 2020 09:21
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:So it's a feature. The native Americans were all like, "we'll kill this buffalo and take only a pound of its meat and leave the rest to rot in the sun." As long as we have buffalos, the system works!
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Apr 26, 2020 09:26
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:Are you the boss? Can you make the choice to stop letting this other company gently caress you over? If I was the boss, I wouldn't be on the Production Floor inspecting products...
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Apr 26, 2020 09:28
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Burt Sexual posted:Sounds like you’re mad at your job/employer, not the good ol USA? Maybe BFC would help you out better wo gearing into endless slapfights. Please god no. BFC is full, no open positions, we’ll keep his resume on file for 90 days blah blah.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:35
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All the people who make the decisions are completely insulated from any and all consequences of failure.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:37
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Your foreign parts would probably conform more if you switched to metric, OP.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:All the people who make the decisions are completely insulated from any and all consequences of failure. Until the company eventually flops, but even then they'll play the victim and get off scot-free.
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Apr 26, 2020 09:51
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bluewolf78 posted:If I was the boss, I wouldn't be on the Production Floor inspecting products... The boss should be on the production floor inspecting products, at least some times. Sounds like you have a bad boss OP. Also sounds like whoever is in charge of choosing your part suppliers is getting kickbacks. There's a reason things aren't changing.
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Apr 26, 2020 10:20
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So many small changes over the last few decades that eroded its capabilities to regain its footing, most likely, blue. As everyone pointed out its so much cheaper to get it overseas than in the US. Train them, fine them all you like for their mistakes, it won't improve quality over the long run, because of the nature of cheapest option. Even if you wrangled everyone back to the us, amd convince the executives, shareholders and managers that the higher quality product would be better for everyone, you still run into the hurdle that now no one can afford it. (gently caress a lot of people can't afford the cheap chinese products now). The economy (and Id argue the culture) as a whole has evolved away from it. Only way to fix it is either throw everything out and start fresh, a post-scarcity miracle, or a series of small changes that gradually brings it back. The last is the best hope but... meh.
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Apr 26, 2020 10:28
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OP, so your a quality inspector and your complaining about wasting your time finding low quality goods? Isn't that your job?
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Apr 26, 2020 10:58
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Globalization has been a disaster and everybody knows it. It's time to escalate yhebtrade war eith China
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Apr 26, 2020 11:01
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everyone should watch Manufactured Landscapes; it's on tubi for free
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Apr 26, 2020 11:24
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bluewolf78 posted:well, I think our real issue is in our networking. We have a resource that we constantly contract for rework. We asked them in the past if they could take on an international contract. They simply said 'no' What they should have done was resourced other similar suppliers and created a conglomerate(sp?) I find this a lot in American Manufacturing, that if they can't handle the contract in full, they don't want to work with a partner to keep it in the country. Then we contract to a company outsourced that later claims they can't keep up with the demand. Usually because they were no bigger than the company down the street. This is an attitude we need to fix in America if we want to keep thing being really made in America. I think anyway. Why should your subcontractor have formed a conglomerate which would be a huge amount of work and expense for them? why can't your company just find more subcontractors to spread the work between instead? or bring the work in house if it's so easy?
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Apr 26, 2020 11:25
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This might sound bad but from an accelerationist point of view it's actually really good 
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Apr 26, 2020 11:54
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At my job as an example, we use just-in-time sourcing so if we reject poo poo from a supplier that means were line down, so we just accept it and throw out a lot of bad parts, do reworks, and never submit supplier corrective actions. its a great system and im proud to be a part of it.
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Apr 26, 2020 12:11
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- hi
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TatoPancakes posted:Until the company eventually flops, but even then they'll play the victim and get off scot-free. As said, they're long gone by then, and whoever's left in charge generally gets a golden parachute and another company to run into the ground. Pump and dump schemes aren't just common but practically mandatory in modern business. Stripping companies for parts is also mandatory.
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Apr 26, 2020 12:16
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American capitalistic greed. gently caress you, got mine. Any corporation telling you they care about workers is lying. Any corporation telling you they're there for you is lying.
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Apr 26, 2020 12:16
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MageMage posted:We should improve society somewhat Careful now...
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Apr 26, 2020 12:31
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bluewolf78 posted:yeah, but why is it the countries that are depending our our Capitalism that are sending us this crap? Have you ever worked in the manufacturing industry to see this? Or is this just some gimmick response to make yourself look cool? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
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Apr 26, 2020 12:41
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bluewolf78 posted:So you're gonna ride a train that is supposed to do 200mph. And I decided that it was ok to say the bolts were 'close enough'. This train decouples and crashes into a building at only 150 mph, not the 200mph we were expecting so it wasn't that big of an issue, right? The bolts were close enough afterall, right? I mean, it should be good enough to get credit for trying, right?... would you ride that train? 
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Apr 26, 2020 12:47
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Hey what about creativity in the workplace. I mean if they put it together wrong doesn’t that mean they are actually an “artist” of sorts? Why not pay the artist a commission on their fuckup and preserve its legacy in an archival museum style entryway to the factory, a hall of fuckups as it were? Put a big picture and bio of the artist (this is Bill, Bill likes potato chips and shaving his back, on the weekends he fishes for salmon with his granpap) and ultimately they can buy the rapidly appreciating exhibit if they want to.
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Apr 26, 2020 12:49
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