Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Here's a couple that are one of my earlier memories.



The Ark and Nemesis, one a jumble of spikes, the other a half-disk covered in greebles. They get entwined and crash on earth where they lay dormant for a couple million years.



The Ark has a really neat front cannon, but it wound up wedged in a mountain for the rest of its days until in 2012 when the Autobots moved out to the city.





The Nemesis got made into a much cooler underwater base and extended a tower up to launch their attacks from. I don't think they ever got it flying again though. Instead they just figured out how to build a wormhole back to Cybertron.





Linux Pirate posted:

Don't have a lot of info on this ship. Came from my disorganized Sci-Fi pics folder. Pretty sure it's Star Wars.



Anyway, looks cool.

This one I really liked in the thread where I got really into looking at deckplans.

SlothfulCobra posted:

Now here's a snug little ship.





This one is an alright hauler, but there's so much crew quarters that it could make a pretty good home base for a whole team of people, which considering that most of these ships with elaborate deckplans on grid systems are from RPG systems, is probably the idea.





I think there's a ship out there that has this same layout but double cargo bays for a more symmetric look.



Chomp8645 posted:

*In a Zot-Fot-Pik voice*

Yep, the Syreen ship is definitely the worst! There aren't any ships worse than theirs, that's for sure!

The Zot-Fot-Piq ship is all about licking as I remember.

It was a really cool idea to use crew as health and then with Syreen, Druuge, and Orz have ways to manipulate crew aside from just damage.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


That's going back too far.

Halo's backstory for humanity in between now and the war with the covenant has some really extreme post-9/11 energy. As I recall, it went that the colony worlds were trying to break from Earth's control, and initially had a lot of public support, but then in their war for independence they did a Terrorism, and thus lost the support of most of humanity and justified the creation of the Spartan program, which made superhumans out of children that were kidnapped by hospitals that faked their deaths to the parents.

And then the Covenant attacked and everyone realized the importance of adhering to Earth's rule regardless of human rights violations, because those darn religious fundamentalists (at least, the weird foreign ones) will kill us all. Don't criticize the government, support our troops.

I didn't like the backstory that the later games came up with for Precursors, but leaning further into the fascism of humanity made sense.

It also leans hard into the way that a lot of sci-fi tries to make Human ships utilitarian grey metal with straight lines and right angles, while alien ships get to be colorful with fancy-looking shapes.





SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Don't hotlink images.

And with some images, especially on Wikis, you can't just plop their URL into imgur because they have some trash at the end. Delete everything after the file extension and it'll work.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Are there any equivalents to Star Wars's visual dictionaries or cross-section books for other sci-fi franchises?



I love these books and how they give you a look at the whole designs and even contextualize things in terms of what the space inside is shaped like and how people fit in them, and they're even putting out these "owner's manual" books that seem neat, but I've already got so much Star Wars in my brain, and I really want to see a broader range of things rather than piling up more on top of the one big franchise I already know.

The closest I've seen outside of Star Wars are books on Lego spaceships, which are really neat, but they're not exactly what I want.

https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Book-Ne...465467149&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Space-Building-Peter-Reid/dp/1593275218


And then they also can circle around back to Star Wars again.



There might be some Trek stuff out there, but I've never seen any Trek material contextualizing ships in human terms. Everything's just inconceivably large.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I recommend used books stores. Those books are sold in hardcover so they'll last, and you might even find one that hasn't really been touched, because they put out new books with stuff from the newer movies that pushes the older books off shelves.

There's also online used book sellers which can be a little sketchier and you have to keep an eye on the combined price plus shipping price.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-srp1-_-title7
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-srp1-_-title3
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-srp1-_-title8

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Star Trek ships are only small when compared to the absolute largest ships in other genres, and they don't really seem to have much of a range of sizes. Despite the Imperial behemoths, many ships in Star Wars are basically wrapped around the pilot in cramped quarters, and a lot of stories are built around ships the size of an apartment.



With the big ships you get the same issue where it all dissolves into a bunch of details without context.



Although a lot of the time, a big portion of the ship gets dedicated to real big facilities that are easier to see and get a feel for, like how this thing is 60% hangar space, 20% power generation.



I feel like while a lot of Imperial ships like Star Destroyers fit into the same vagueness that Star Trek has of sound stages that fit somewhere on a massive behemoth, the Rebel ships are particularly good at having designs that have to fit in with humans or have to fit in a shot with other human figures, giving you some scale, along with designs that are distinct enough to really inform what their interiors would be like.



I like all the way in the corner there's a real cross-section where the bulk of the space is cargo pods while there's a few buses' worth of seating up top.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


When I was parsing through examples of Star Wars cross-sections, I found some fan-made examples for this ship, Kyle Katarn's Moldy Crow.





It seems like they disagree on the scale of the ship, but I think I like the second one better because I feel like any ship that some characters are depicted as "living out of" and being used for long distance transit should have some kind of bunk and some kind of bathroom. I even found a floorplan that has a third idea of how the ship is, and this guy who made an elaborate new 3D model of the exterior and interior.



It's at least very obvious that the ship's not got a lot of space to work with. In the X-Wing Miniatures game, it's not much bigger than an X-Wing or Y-Wing, using the same "small" ship base. I guess that's why it has a lower hull stat in the game. It's also much smaller than any of the YT-ships that Star Wars is pretty fond of using as bases for its characters, despite being designated in the fluff as another "light freighter". Maybe it has some good capability for hooking up external cargo.



And while I was looking up stuff about this ship, I was kinda confused because I felt like I didn't remember the ship looking exactly like that, and I was right, because I didn't really play through Dark Forces games, and apparently the Moldy Crow gets destroyed at the end and replaced by this thing in Outcast and Academy: the Raven's Claw.



Which I like the big round engines better than the Moldy Crow's weird flat engines, but the cockpit is just kinda a big rod that doesn't really seem to integrate with the wings. Probably even less room in there. I did find another fanmade cross-section of the Raven's Claw, but uh...eurgh.



Umm...I guess I'll just go down from top to bottom. I don't feel like Kyle Katarn planned ahead enough to have a bike ready, although I guess that's some useful cargo capacity there that the ship seems to otherwise be missing. I'd say the little breakfast nook seems like a poor choice when space inside the ship is at such a premium, and the perspective of the aft living space doesn't really line up right with the cockpit (which the side by side chairs are at least accurate to the game). I don't think the ship in the game ever launched any missles either. But down under the ship, it's just really gross and the reason why so many people don't bother humoring a lot of criticism of the Last Jedi because it gets lost under this horrible poo poo.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The pilot can sorta see forward through the top window if they pitch down, but otherwise, yeah no. In theory with good radar and targeting computer systems, you don't really need direct visibility around you even during combat, which is sort of implied by how the Millennium Falcon has an outboard cockpit, but that's not really addressed much in the fiction. I guess that cross-section tries to explain why Jan Ors had goggles.

For longer journeys in space, you'd barely need direct view at all because most of the time you'd be surrounded by empty space and just setting long-distance headings, which is why real-world ships used to be fine with putting the helm on the back of the ship, and even modern wheelhouses are often fine with putting the helm towards the back of the room. You're only really in danger of collision when you're on a planet. So maybe the nose has collision detection and then the side windows are for eyeballing the rest of whatever area you're trying to park in.

I guess as a stylistic decision it also downplays how aggressive the ship appears, since in the game it's not really meant for fighting itself, it's just a transport to take Katarn to a place where he can get off and do the fighting on foot, and then it can spirit him away at the end of the level. I feel like this design immediately looks more aggressive, even though it's largely the same concept but with better visibility.



And it's apparently meant to just be an armed hauler. But it seems like a weird concept to put your main thrust on an extending bit that has to maintain its extension in the opposite direction of the thrust force. Ah well, it's just concept art.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Starfleet is very anxious about being an armed military, so they put a lot of effort into justifying what a ship could do in peacetime.

What if instead of having a nice smooth hull for all your spaceship parts to fit inside, you just loosely tied all the bits together and went "good enough"?



This is a board game about building a spaceship and then flying through space on a perilous truck route.



Players have to draw an place tiles under a time limit and make sure that they get all the modules they want and that they're connected properly with no exposed connectors. You probably also want redundant connections between parts of your ship too, because if you get damaged and lose the one bit that connects parts of your ship, half of the thing goes flying off never to be seen again. I've seen a round where one ship loses everything but a single crew quarters sailing to the end, but managing to beat another ship that stayed intact but lost all its crew and never made it home.

Every ship ends up looking as a sort of monstrosity of parts all jumbled together haphazardly. These are actually really good designs by the game's normal standards.





There's also an app version that will show your ship zooming around.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.



SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


If the backstory of a dumb design is cost-cutting, there's no limit to how dumb it can get. I can really imagine those things loaded up with cargo strapped to the railings I guess.

It does seem like a pretty weak design for a personnel carrier. Definitely it doesn't seem suited to going from orbit to surface, and I wouldn't go a foot on top of it without getting some strap around me to clip onto the railing., and the time it would take to unclip might kinda clash with the speed of infantry deployment.

Except the first clip I found of them in use wasn't of it being used to drop in troops, it was of it being used as a gunship. With the firepower being provided by the soldiers on top of the thing. I don't think their guns are even mounted on the actual vehicle, they're just being carried by the soldiers themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxuLj1IR20E

When I found a clip of them being used for troop carrying, it kinda makes more sense with the soldiers keeping as low as possible to provide less of a target, but it seems like the game devs felt pretty uncomfortable about using them as vehicles because they only have 3-4 men per vehicle. If you're fine with that few people, why not just make an actual armored vehicle? Also the faction that uses them isn't the faction that has breathing masks? How high up are they supposed to be deploying from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8HDn5z5oM

However, it also reminds me of another fighting vehicle where people are supposed to be hanging around on top, totally unsecured. PT Boats.



I'm pretty sure that these aren't meant to wade into fire though, and if you did actually want to transport people through a danger zone there's a sheltered area to stick people in instead of just having them hang out above board with the guns.

I have thought about how if you have a sci-fi world with force fields that can keep air in, maybe you could forego a proper hull at all, and just have everybody clamboring around on a much more barebones kinda craft, maybe kept on by some artificial gravity. And the closest I've seen with that is Treasure Planet (although it doesn't actually bother trying to explain why they don't need space suits, and space is just full of air.)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


How about some more spaceships copying historical naval ships!




Well, I say spaceships, not exactly. They're in a space, not exactly outer space. Or at least not the normal outer space. Inside the universe, outside the timestream? It's a bit confusing, but it's a really different and original idea and basically the only thing I remember fondly about Sluggy Freelance. It had two arcs interspersed with the comic's other dumb stuff. Maybe they revisited it at some point, I haven't read in a long while.

Basically in this dimension, everyone has a little bubble of "time" with them that if it runs out, the freeze into a lifeless statue. It increases in strength and recharges in the presence of other people's time-bubbles, so that encourages both for people to maintain sizable crews instead of going it alone and for people to forcibly take captives to charge and maintain their time-bubbles. So, much of them turn to piracy.






Some ships seem to have thrusters on the rear, but all ships in "Timeless Ppace" use "powersails", that it's not really clear what they do, but apparently they all need to be balanced out somehow along three dimensions to be able to navigate. They're all relics of the "Teknokons" a group of robotic explorers that were sent out into Timeless Space long ago as part of a corporate project that never actually bore any fruit.

There's a neat little revelation at the end of the first arc that most people only ever wind up in Timeless Space as the result of science experiments gone wrong, so the bulk of them are just nerds playing at being pirates. Even though the ships look simple, it's actually incredibly complicated for the people who know how to fly them to actually fly them. There's a decent amount of maintenance scenes.




And yes, there's that grey and white lump that's supposed to be a rabbit. He's the only character from the main comic in the whole arc, having been tossed into Timeless Space after he became the Easter Bunny, slew the spirit of Halloween to take over that holiday, and used the resulting Halloween-powers to wage a war of conquest across the holidays, eventually being defeated by New Year's and being tossed out of the timestream. It's a very weird comic, and in the times when the comic distances itself from most of the main cast, I think you see a lot of potential in Pete Abrams that eventually gets covered right back up again.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply