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Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Gunshow Poophole posted:

One of my SRA buds just bought a circuit judge lmao we gonna shoot it tomorrow and I'll take pictures

It sounds awful but heck I'm all about fun gimmicks if you can afford it

gently caress yes. You skin that smoke wagon!

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Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
Posters' Local 42069





Clapping Larry

update: it's really stupid but it's really fun, so much fun I forgot to take pictures. It's loud but a total kitten, and is crazy lightweight

I don't know enough about gunsmithing/engineering to say if it's... normal? to have the latter part of a given chamber serve as like a barrel? Because 45 Colt is way stubbier that .410

my .44 1894 is still my fave tho, yeehaws aplenty

Tiny Chalupa
Feb 14, 2012


Sweet, I got an alert that the Henry Big Boy X in 357/38 Special was in stock for $750. Using my phone, I couldn't select any FFL to transfer it to. In the 18 minutes it took for me to drive home and use my computer....it had sold out. FML!!!!

I want that drat lever action rifle

Just Joe
Dec 31, 2008


r/gundeals showed the Henry Big Boy X 38/357 in stock earlier this afternoon (sold out now), though a lot of people apparently don't like the vendor: https://www.tinstarshootingrange.com/products/rifles-henry-wisconsin-h012mx-619835200259-707

Here's a question: can you use a 9mm suppressor (say, a CGS mod9sk) on a 38/357 like this?

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



Just Joe posted:

r/gundeals showed the Henry Big Boy X 38/357 in stock earlier this afternoon (sold out now), though a lot of people apparently don't like the vendor: https://www.tinstarshootingrange.com/products/rifles-henry-wisconsin-h012mx-619835200259-707

Here's a question: can you use a 9mm suppressor (say, a CGS mod9sk) on a 38/357 like this?

Maybe not, the pressure on rifle length .357 is higher than 9mm I believe. I'd email the manufacturer of your can and ask before blowing up your expensive quiet tube.

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


Youíll be fine with .38 special loads, but .357 is significantly higher pressure than 9mm. Even +p 9mm loads are 5k psi less than .357. Muzzle pressure decreases with a longer barrel, thatís why you see some manufacturers have minimum lengths for certain calibers. That being said, email the can manufacturer and they can tell you for sure if itís alright or not.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Yep. Silencerco for example told me I was fine to use my Omega 9k on a .357. But not all cans are created equal.

Tiny Chalupa
Feb 14, 2012


Just Joe posted:

r/gundeals showed the Henry Big Boy X 38/357 in stock earlier this afternoon (sold out now), though a lot of people apparently don't like the vendor: https://www.tinstarshootingrange.com/products/rifles-henry-wisconsin-h012mx-619835200259-707

I grabbed one without realizing the guy is a asshat. Despite lovely reviews about em, I already have the gun on it's way. Gun was picked up by UPS same day my Optics Planet order shipped. 24 hours after I ordered from them as well so 2 for 2

I was.going to ask about a can as well. Henry has a video listed on their page and lucky gunner uses one. I gotta poke around and confirm which one to get

Just Joe
Dec 31, 2008


Tyro posted:

Yep. Silencerco for example told me I was fine to use my Omega 9k on a .357. But not all cans are created equal.

I emailed CGS and they said good to go, would just need to get the 5/8x24 piston (already have the fixed spacer).

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


Why would you need a piston on a fixed barrel?

fwiw I've got a 3 lug on my .357 Marlin and Dead Air Ghost, works just fine paired up to a 1/2x28 3 lug adapter from Hansohn Bros

https://hansohnbrothers.com/shop/hansohn-brothers/accessories/3-lug/hansohn-3-lug-muzzle-device/



pew pew

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Never stop posting that rifle Beeb, it's really nice.

I already have the MI forend, I decided to leave my JM 1894C mostly stock other than the red dot. So now I need to decide if I want to get a 336 Dark or a threaded 1894 to put that forend on. I have silencers for both options already...

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Tyro posted:

Never stop posting that rifle Beeb, it's really nice.


Word. Every time I see that rifleI end up browsing GB.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Well it took a month to ship but my order of 158gr Federal Fusion 357mag ammo is finally on the way. Ended up being almost 75cpr shipped, which I think was still a pretty good price these days for hunting ammo. I hope it groups well out of my 1894c, I mostly shoot 38spl out of it at the range. Wish I had a chronograph because I haven't been able to find data yet on how this specific load performs out of carbines.

FoulWeatherFriend
Apr 10, 2006

Huh, okay...

I'm eyeing a Marlin 1894CB in .357 as a first gun and I'm looking to tacticool it out with an optics rail and an m-lok handguard, but it looks like both Ranger Point and Midwest specify that their rails do not fit the CB models. Does anybody here have experience as to why? I can't find any info on it. Barrel too wide?

Kinda needs to be a CB too since the kind of license I'd be applying for requires an 18" or longer barrel or I'd be going for a Dark or CST.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



FoulWeatherFriend posted:

I'm eyeing a Marlin 1894CB in .357 as a first gun and I'm looking to tacticool it out with an optics rail and an m-lok handguard, but it looks like both Ranger Point and Midwest specify that their rails do not fit the CB models. Does anybody here have experience as to why? I can't find any info on it. Barrel too wide?

Kinda needs to be a CB too since the kind of license I'd be applying for requires an 18" or longer barrel or I'd be going for a Dark or CST.

I don't know exactly about the marlin issue, but I'm waiting for this to come out and hopefully be good. It was announced around shot show this year, but was delayed due to roni. https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/citadel/citadel-levtac-92/

Legacy is the parent company for Howa, and it's probably gonna be decent quality when it comes out. It already has a rail, and has an 18" barrel and supposedly will sell for ~700 american dollarydoos. It checks all the levergat boxes I want.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Probably the barrel. I have an uninstalled MI handguard if you want me to measure it anywhere just lmk. I would call them up and ask, they're pretty helpful on the phone.

The regular 1894C has a 18 or 18.5" barrel, sounds like it would work for you also

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


The CB has an octagonal barrel. Thatís probably why regular 1894 rails wonít work.

FoulWeatherFriend
Apr 10, 2006

Huh, okay...

Tyro posted:

Probably the barrel. I have an uninstalled MI handguard if you want me to measure it anywhere just lmk. I would call them up and ask, they're pretty helpful on the phone.

The regular 1894C has a 18 or 18.5" barrel, sounds like it would work for you also

That'd be super cool if you could do that, and I'll have a look around for anyone selling a C. The importer is apparently a notoriously difficult fudd who won't help with special requests though so I might be stuck anyway.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

L0cke17 posted:

I don't know exactly about the marlin issue, but I'm waiting for this to come out and hopefully be good. It was announced around shot show this year, but was delayed due to roni. https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/citadel/citadel-levtac-92/

Legacy is the parent company for Howa, and it's probably gonna be decent quality when it comes out. It already has a rail, and has an 18" barrel and supposedly will sell for ~700 american dollarydoos. It checks all the levergat boxes I want.

Oh my goodness. I've been on the fence about the aesthetic of tacticool leverguns, but this one seems to have found a really nice balance. Me likey.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


FoulWeatherFriend posted:

That'd be super cool if you could do that, and I'll have a look around for anyone selling a C. The importer is apparently a notoriously difficult fudd who won't help with special requests though so I might be stuck anyway.

The gap at the top of the handguard is 1.015" across. Let me know if you want anything else specifically measured and I'll see what I can do.

The instructions do mention "this handguard includes some special nuts that are for the top 45 degree slots. Some rifles may need these due to larger barrels." Vague but I agree with Jray88, points to the octagonal barrel as the probable fit issue. But give them a call or shoot them an email and see what they say! If it's a minor issue you might be able to have a gunsmith do the install and modify things to fit.

AmbassadorofSodomy
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!


How much better are the Leverevolution bullets compared to the regular round nosed ones you would typically use for a tube magged gun?

FoulWeatherFriend
Apr 10, 2006

Huh, okay...

Tyro posted:

The gap at the top of the handguard is 1.015" across. Let me know if you want anything else specifically measured and I'll see what I can do.

The instructions do mention "this handguard includes some special nuts that are for the top 45 degree slots. Some rifles may need these due to larger barrels." Vague but I agree with Jray88, points to the octagonal barrel as the probable fit issue. But give them a call or shoot them an email and see what they say! If it's a minor issue you might be able to have a gunsmith do the install and modify things to fit.

Thanks!

I'll keep this in mind. Retailers here seem to be pretty shite at actually writing which variant is which despite having two variants with a significant price difference so I guess it'll be a roadtrip to get handsy after I've gotten my safe.

If it's just the barrel I'm not averse to going full bubba with a file on the handguard if it's just a mm or two that needs to go

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


wesleywillis posted:

How much better are the Leverevolution bullets compared to the regular round nosed ones you would typically use for a tube magged gun?

I can't speak to this too much, especially as far as hunting ballistics or anything, but the point (heh) of the pointed tip bullets is improved range/accuracy at range, due to lower air resistance. Most tube magazines can't use most pointed bullets because under recoil the tip of one bullet could set off the primer of the one in front of it, but the leverevolution ones have a soft tip that supposedly can't do that.

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Found this image:


Admittedly it's in .444 Marlin, which is gonna have the worst drat rainbow trajectory of any of the lever gun cartridges, but that difference is pretty pathetic.

Edit: also found this thread where they did their own calculations and came to similar, unimpressive conclusions.

Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 4, 2020

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


wesleywillis posted:

How much better are the Leverevolution bullets compared to the regular round nosed ones you would typically use for a tube magged gun?

My only experience is with a friend hunting the 250g 45-70 load. If youíre hunting, there are better loads. The damage on a whitetail from a broadside shot was massive. The bullet pretty well destroyed both shoulders and a good bit of meat was lost due to bullet and bone fragments. The bullet did not exit, and was pretty well broken up. The deer did drop immediately though. Reading online this seems to be because the bullets are simple copper jacket, not bonded. Most reviews say they shed the jackets, and if pushed too hard they can break up.

At least with the 45-70, the cases are also shortened a bit. This only matters if you reload.

AmbassadorofSodomy
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!


Soooooo...... Not that much better I guess other than 'pointed bullet=more better'? Is a particular projectile's trajectory inherent to it's diameter and how much powder explodes behind it more so than what the tip is shaped like? All other things being equal Like rifling twist rate and what not.

Just curious. Not looking to start a big debate about ballistics

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





wesleywillis posted:

Soooooo...... Not that much better I guess other than 'pointed bullet=more better'? Is a particular projectile's trajectory inherent to it's diameter and how much powder explodes behind it more so than what the tip is shaped like? All other things being equal Like rifling twist rate and what not.

Just curious. Not looking to start a big debate about ballistics

The weight of the projectile, amount of explosive, formula for the explosive, barrel length and twist rate are the main variables.

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Do the Leverevolution rounds have a decreased powder charge compared to normal .45-70? I kinda doubt it, since the .45-70 case was designed for black powder so I imagine there's some room to spare in them with modern propellants, but I dunno.

I think the spitzer-ish bullet just doesn't really help that much. It's still a big, relatively slow-moving bullet.

Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Oct 4, 2020

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Dick Burglar posted:


I think the spitzer-ish bullet just doesn't really help that much. It's still a big, relatively slow-moving bullet.

I don't know about lever guns specifically, or the mid- late 19th century rifle rounds that many of them were designed around, but I suspect this is going to be the long and the short of it for a lot of them.

THere was an awkward phase in smokeless cartridge design when people had figured out that a smaller (relatively - ~.30 cal vs ~.45 cal) bullet moving faster was the way to go, but hadn't gone all the way there yet. This is when you see things like the Patrone 88 in Germany and .30-03 in the US, as well as those weird looking early 7.62x54rs. They're basically just the modern 8mm Mauser / 30-06 / etc but with a heavier, round nosed bullet.

Eventually the swiss and Germans figured out that if you changed the bullet shape and made them a tad lighter you could push them even faster and the effective range and accuracy would increase a lot. When I say "effective range and accuracy" remember that these were also loaded in MGs. I don't have data at my fingertips on the Patrone 88 / 8mm Mauser shift, but I've read that the effective range for MGs chambered in .30-06 was very significantly further than the same guns with .30-03 barrels. We're talking ranges in kilometers here, though, and the sort of beaten ground area fire that MGs do at that range.

Sometimes the cartridges themselves would change a bit, sometimes not. .30-03 had a longer neck than .30-06, so there was some tweaks made to the barrels of early production 1903s that had already been made. In the case of Patrone 88 / 8mm Mauser the dimensions are very similar, but they took the opportunity to make the brass a little thicker on 8mm, so older guns had to be re-bored ever so slightly for them to reliably fit. The difference is just under .1mm at the base of the neck, and I'm pretty sure that people who load m88 today just use 8mm brass and size it to fit.

Which is a lot of words to say that yeah, spitzer shape probably isn't much of a help if you're looking at a lot of the traditional, 19th century lever acton loadings.

Did any lever guns ever get made with tube mags in the more modern rifle calibers? I know the Winchester 95 came in .30-06, but that also had a box mag.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




Cyrano4747 posted:

Eventually the swiss and Germans figured out that if you changed the bullet shape and made them a tad lighter you could push them even faster and the effective range and accuracy would increase a lot.

Pretty sure that was the French.

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



I don't think leverevolution is going to make enough difference to be worthwhile on something huge, heavy and slow like 45-70.

I think the original intent was .30-30 hunting rounds since they are pretty common for deer out of leveractions.

But .30-30 isn't the stoutest cartridge load since it was originally a BP round so I doubt they are going to load any hotter than normal.

I would imagine a slight benefit if you are using them to hunt deer with a .30-30 but anything larger or heavier than that is pretty much only going to look prettier and cost more for negligible results.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Somebody Awful posted:

Pretty sure that was the French.

Huh youíre right. I could have sworn that was the Swiss and Germans but nope Balle D was out in 1898. My bad.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


Yeah apparently the leverevolution stuff shines out of smaller calibers, especially pistol stuff, but yeah .45-70 is just... why?

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.


my turn in the barrel posted:

I don't think leverevolution is going to make enough difference to be worthwhile on something huge, heavy and slow like 45-70.

I think the original intent was .30-30 hunting rounds since they are pretty common for deer out of leveractions.

But .30-30 isn't the stoutest cartridge load since it was originally a BP round so I doubt they are going to load any hotter than normal.

I would imagine a slight benefit if you are using them to hunt deer with a .30-30 but anything larger or heavier than that is pretty much only going to look prettier and cost more for negligible results.

.30-30 was never a black powder round, it was the first smokeless sporting round.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


.30-30 was what I was thinking for a possibly useful application but I don't know what the comparison would look like. It's a bit zestier than a 7.62x39 and the same bullet diameter give or take a few thousandths, so it should look like a slightly improved 7.62x39 (out of a CZ 527 or something, not a clapped out SKS).

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



Beardless posted:

.30-30 was never a black powder round, it was the first smokeless sporting round.

You are right I got it backwards.

boxen
Feb 20, 2011


Cyrano4747 posted:

Did any lever guns ever get made with tube mags in the more modern rifle calibers? I know the Winchester 95 came in .30-06, but that also had a box mag.

I don't know of any other tube mag guns. Other box/rotary magazine guns (Savage Model 99, Browning BLR), but nothing from a tube.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


I was about to say that Henry makes a 6.5CM lever, but it uses a detachable box mag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy-mKEzuDMo

Pretty neat though

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

I don't know where else to put this, as I don't remember seeing a general marksmanship thread anywhere. But, this is my R92 in 44 magnum @ 50 yards:



I'm shooting from a picnic table, and I'm using a shooting bag. Because of the sizes and shapes of all of the moving parts (the bag, the gun, me, etc.), I'm actually holding the rifle normally, and my wrist is on the shooting bag for support. Otherwise, it's much too awkward. (I have the bag positioned under the forestock area. Should it be further away, so the barrel is on it? It can take the heat, I'm sure.)

Now, I drifted the front sight to the right, which is why a bunch of the shots (there are 20 in all) moved to the 10 circle in a better group. On the last couple of shots, I was holding further and further to the left. (There are a couple of flyers down low; I'm not sure how I managed those.)

If I drift the sight too much more, it's going to look like it wants to fall out. The rear sight is not adjustable for windage. Is 50 yards pushing it for a 44 magnum rifle? Is this something where I just need to understand that my rifle leans a little hard to the right, and mentally compensate? Or is this the excuse I need for aperture sights? And anyone have suggestions on that front? I'm looking around, but if anyone has experience here....

(Except for the flyers, I took myself mostly out of the equation, so I don't think my trigger finger is yanking the gun to the side like is easy to do with handguns.)

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Have someone else shoot it. Thatís the easiest way to figure out if youíre pulling.

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