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PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.


They had models for the Squat bikes and trikes. They were alright for early GW metal, and basically the one and only interesting part of the line.

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

PeterWeller posted:

Squats were also always more viable and better supported in the Epic game, where they got giant gun trains and armored zeppelins. But those kinds of units couldn't really be reproduced for 40K's 28mm scale in the early 90's. So 40K Squats were just little round dudes who used Imperial ground vehicles and some bikes. They were essentially a slightly tougher but less varied Imperial Guard.

They had some unique, goofy field artillery, including a reverse mortar that shot drill projectiles on a parabolic arc through the ground, and a quad-barreled mortar. The Thudd Gun quad-mortar even had its own special weapon template in WH40K 2e, made of four attached small blast templates attached to each other with paper tabs and brass chads. The weapons weren't taken from WHFB, but the rules for them would be very familiar to anyone who played it: they were tiny units of a couple-three crewmen and a single field artillery piece with bespoke rules. They weren't exactly the same as, say, an Organ Gun or a Helblaster Cannon or a Doom Diver but they were recognizably the same type of unit, with the same type of battlefield role.



40K 3e got rid of a lot of these one-off blast templates, and folded most of the WHFB-style war machines and weapon teams into larger units, eventually pushing nearly every weapon towards the Space Marine style of rifle-carry or shoulder-mounted weapons. I don't think these units were ever even in the Imperial Guard's codex for 3e; I do recall at the time that the fact that they weren't included in the IG list was taken by some as a hint that they were being saved for a Squat codex. That obviously didn't happen.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 16:14 on May 21, 2020

CarpenterWalrus
Mar 30, 2010


MonsieurChoc posted:

I'm a 2E game right now, playing a Mechanicus Investigator.

hell yeah, my dude. 1E Arbite here

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.


Cease to Hope posted:

They had some unique, goofy field artillery, including a reverse mortar that shot drill projectiles on a parabolic arc through the ground, and a quad-barreled mortar. The Thudd Gun quad-mortar even had its own special weapon template in WH40K 2e, made of four attached small blast templates attached to each other with paper tabs and brass chads. The weapons weren't taken from WHFB, but the rules for them would be very familiar to anyone who played it: they were tiny units of a couple-three crewmen and a single field artillery piece with bespoke rules. They weren't the exactly same as, say, an Organ Gun or a Helblaster Cannon or a Doom Diver but they were recognizably the same type of unit, with the same type of battlefield role.



40K 3e got rid of a lot of these one-off templates, and folded most of the WHFB-style war machines and weapon teams into larger units, eventually pushing nearly every weapon towards the Space Marine style of rifle-carry or shoulder-mounted weapons. I don't think these units were ever even in the Imperial Guard's codex for 3e; I do recall at the time that the fact that they weren't included in the IG list was taken by some as a hint that they were being saved for a Squad codex. That obviously didn't happen.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Thudd Gun and its rad little template. 2E was full of weapon-specific templates like that, though I don't remember any being as strange as the Thudd Gun's. The amount of cardboard chits, markers, and templates that GW used to include in its games would make Fantasy Flight designers blush.

I think the only artillery pieces that survived the 3E transition were the Eldar support platforms (which would transition into being more like an IG heavy weapon team), Ork big guns, and that awful poorly cast metal brick, the thunderfire cannon.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

PeterWeller posted:

I think the only artillery pieces that survived the 3E transition were the Eldar support platforms (which would transition into being more like an IG heavy weapon team), Ork big guns, and that awful poorly cast metal brick, the thunderfire cannon.

The Thunderfire wasn't introduced until much later. Googling says 5th edition although I'm not sure about that.

Ork big guns didn't survive the 3E transition! Several of them were in the list included in the 40K core rulebook for 3E, but most of the goofy mekboy guns like the pulsa rokkit, the squig katapult, and the shokk attack gun (a ridiculous-looking shoulder-mounted gun that teleported snotlings into the target) were removed in the 3e Codex Orks.

e: I might be misremembering this, or have it backwards.

This was all to focus on the new Mad Max, melee-first direction for Orks, inspired by Gorkamorka. 40K 3E had a lot more emphasis on moving troops in transports and dreadnaughts, so Orks got new stripped-down wartrukks and got the first dreadnaught unit in the entire game, killa kanz. Orks in 2e had a reputation for being a gimmicky, shooting-focused army, while 3e remade them into a horde-based army that rushed melee in transports. That didn't entirely work - they were notoriously bad for almost all of 3e - and a lot of the goofiness was reintroduced later.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 20, 2020

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



Squats should just be another brand of abhuman and prevented from gaining power for the same reason you'll never see an Ogryn or Ratling in Imperial propaganda. They should also come back space dwarves own.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Cease to Hope posted:

Ork big guns didn't survive the 3E transition! Several of them were in the list included in the 40K core rulebook for 3E, but most of the goofy mekboy guns like the pulsa rokkit, the squig katapult, and the shokk attack gun (a ridiculous-looking shoulder-mounted gun that teleported snotlings into the target) were removed in the 3e Codex Orks.

e: I might be misremembering this, or have it backwards.

fwiw I think I do have this backwards. I think it might've been that they were removed from the 40K 3e core rulebook (which was the only Ork list for a long time!) and readded in considerably less-silly form in the 3e Ork codex. I'm not 100% sure, though.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.


Cease to Hope posted:

The Thunderfire wasn't introduced until much later. Googling says 5th edition although I'm not sure about that.

Ork big guns didn't survive the 3E transition! Several of them were in the list included in the 40K core rulebook for 3E, but most of the goofy mekboy guns like the pulsa rokkit, the squig katapult, and the shokk attack gun (a ridiculous-looking shoulder-mounted gun that teleported snotlings into the target) were removed in the 3e Codex Orks.

e: I might be misremembering this, or have it backwards.

This was all to focus on the new Mad Max, melee-first direction for Orks, inspired by Gorkamorka. 40K 3E had a lot more emphasis on moving troops in transports and dreadnaughts, so Orks got new stripped-down wartrukks and got the first dreadnaught unit in the entire game, killa kanz. Orks in 2e had a reputation for being a gimmicky, shooting-focused army, while 3e remade them into a horde-based army that rushed melee in transports. That didn't entirely work - they were notoriously bad for almost all of 3e - and a lot of the goofiness was reintroduced later.

Huh, I thought the Thunderfire was old stuff. Maybe I'm just conflating it with the Thudd Gun. Either way, gently caress that thing. Not only was it a horrible pain in the rear end to assemble, I built it for my friend, so after the pain of putting it together, I got to spend many games watching it shred hapless guardians who thought they were safely in cover.

I wouldn't call 2E Orks a shooting focused army. They were more balanced between shooting and melee in 2E than 3E (as evidenced by going from a WS3 BS3 profile to a WS4 BS2 profile), but they were always a horde army, and one that usually closed to melee. The ork armies I played against in 2E would usually come in 3 ranks: a screen of grots to eat fire, a horde of boys to get in close and try to tear poo poo up, and a back rank of weird guns to cover the rest as it moved forward. Sometimes I'd encounter a battlewagon with a boys piled onto every flat surface because the 2E battle wagon's transport capacity was as many orks as you could physically fit on top. If a model fell off while one moved the wagon, there were rules to treat it as the boy falling off the wagon for real.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

PeterWeller posted:

I wouldn't call 2E Orks a shooting focused army.

I doubt it was the intended way to play, but 2E Orks were exceptionally bad at melee all around. Having lots of models didn't make you very much better at melee, their melee weapons were mostly poor, their high-points elite units were absolute fodder in melee, and most of their non-special-characters couldn't kill their points in trash or win duels. What did work for 2E Orks were their special, goofy shooting units, as well as a few units that didn't quite work as intended but could do work anyway. In particular, some of those goofy weapons (particularly the Shokk) were great at instantly eliminating your opponent's mega-characters.

Optimizing 2E came down to running fairly small numbers of the most goofy, extreme units in the vast majority of cases. There wasn't much to make you actually run your army list's basic troops, other than possibly social opprobrium. A lot of people considered it a really "cheesy" way to play.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.


Cease to Hope posted:

I doubt it was the intended way to play, but 2E Orks were exceptionally bad at melee all around. Having lots of models didn't make you very much better at melee, their melee weapons were mostly poor, their high-points elite units were absolute fodder in melee, and most of their non-special-characters couldn't kill their points in trash or win duels. What did work for 2E Orks were their special, goofy shooting units, as well as a few units that didn't quite work as intended but could do work anyway. In particular, some of those goofy weapons (particularly the Shokk) were great at instantly eliminating your opponent's mega-characters.

Optimizing 2E came down to running fairly small numbers of the most goofy, extreme units in the vast majority of cases. There wasn't much to make you actually run your army list's basic troops, other than possibly social opprobrium. A lot of people considered it a really "cheesy" way to play.

It's probably small sample size, local meta, and almost no attempt by anyone to build anything close to an optimized list, but my experience was that Orks were pretty great in melee. Melee was such a crap shoot to begin with, where any trash model could end up dishing out multiple hits if the dice went that way. And the bonuses from multiple combatants would really stack up when each of your dudes had 2-4 boys on him. So we were all a bit terrified by big ork mobs in the crew I played with.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I kinda thought that since dwarves were all about greedily gathering resources with no thought to the consequences, then the equivalent of dwarves in 40k must be Tyranids.

Although there's never any story about Tyranids digging too deep into a planet and getting a bellyache or something. Or I guess the equivalent would be if they ran into a bunch of prions that started unraveling their proteins.

Tyranids always seemed to be pretty lacking in something that would make them specifically interesting instead of just being a faceless horde with no personality.

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





SlothfulCobra posted:


Tyranids always seemed to be pretty lacking in something that would make them specifically interesting instead of just being a faceless horde with no personality.

imo Genestealer Cults fixed that problem to an extent

a cult infestation taking place over several human generations utilizing intrigue, class consciousness, espionage and genetic manipulation to undermine a planet's loyalty to the Imperium, all to pave the way for an easier and more successful invasion and ultimate consumption of all biomass by said faceless horde is more interesting than just having the faceless horde invade and eat everything

also people worshiping the Four-Armed Emperor might be the funniest non-ork thing in 40k

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Filthy Hans posted:

imo Genestealer Cults fixed that problem to an extent

a cult infestation taking place over several human generations utilizing intrigue, class consciousness, espionage and genetic manipulation to undermine a planet's loyalty to the Imperium, all to pave the way for an easier and more successful invasion and ultimate consumption of all biomass by said faceless horde is more interesting than just having the faceless horde invade and eat everything

also people worshiping the Four-Armed Emperor might be the funniest non-ork thing in 40k

genestealer cults have been around longer than tyranids though

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Yea, Tyranids and Genestealers were separate until very late in Rogue Trader. But you're right, Tyranids are kind of boring because the faceless hoard is a more interesting idea than it is an actual thing. Why they decided to start having Necrons with character. Also Genestealer Cults are like the coolest army right now. It's taking all my will power to not build an army of them. I'm already commited to too many armies ;Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Imperial Guard, Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Necrons, Tau, Custodes, Eldar, Mechanicus and Sisters. To be fair, most of these armies are pretty much done and I don't need to buy anything new for them unless there are new releases.

I love the new Necron characters, they've made them so ancient and alien that they can be both friend and foe because their concerns are even beyond the Eldar. I love the Necron in the Fall of Cadia story just throwing out Pokeballs full of Space Marines from the Horus Hersey and other ancient times to fight against chaos.

Ego-bot
Jul 8, 2007


I like that Trazyn's main reason for being there is because he wanted Abaddon for his collection.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






Tyranids are basically Orks but way less cool

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



Tyranids were fun when they had mutation rules and you could build your own troops from the ground up. 24 point 'gaunts that only saved on sixes and just kept re-spawning with a whole bunch of melee enhancements. Utterly worthless but instead of a horde army you'd put out twenty troops and a hive tyrant and that's your entire army.

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.



twistedmentat posted:

Straight from Jes Goodwin, everyone was embarrassed by the squats, the models looked silly and they had no idea how to translate dwarfs into 40k without said sillyness with their current tech.

I mean if you want to play squats, Khardon Overlords are basically them, just with like an airship theme.

yeah and really the embarrassment was justified to some extent.

20 something years later and I still find it funny though that I started in Warhammer with Dwarves. then immediately wanted to get started on Chaos Dwarves for a second army and Squats for 40K too.
I have continued to make poor life choices to this day.

Ass-penny
Jan 18, 2008



I dabbled in Warhammer 40k in high school, had an almost complete army of Dark Angels, I think I was still proxying a dreadnaught. Reading this thread has been a trip, a lot of you seem really knowledgeable of the cannon, versus even when I was buying models and getting together to have battles and I just only tangentially knew about the drama causing my marines to be blasting Chaos Marines, Necrons, and Tau. I remember finding out about Imperial Guard the last year or two I was really loving with Warhammer. Picking up a box and being like, what's this about Canadians? How do you get such a short end of the stick you don't even get goddamn power armor in this setting? Watching a friend set up his IG army and his gross number of minis, and understanding why that was the case as blast templates got laid out over them and vast swaths of them drop every turn.
It's too bad the fash tries to adopt every loving thing under the sun, glad to hear people in this community are speaking out against them when they bring their lovely ideology to gaming stores and tables.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014




Hell Gem

Surprised no one's brought up the Astartes CGI fan films. They tell an intriguing, minimalist sci-fi story seemingly removed from other 40k fiction. I honestly think they're better than similar fan creations because of it, and because there's genuinly impressive cinematography involved, not just cool graphics & action. Definitely some Dredd influence to it.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Mordja posted:

Surprised no one's brought up the Astartes CGI fan films. They tell an intriguing, minimalist sci-fi story seemingly removed from other 40k fiction. I honestly think they're better than similar fan creations because of it, and because there's genuinly impressive cinematography involved, not just cool graphics & action. Definitely some Dredd influence to it.

Yea Astartes is fantastic. And I was surprised this is actually telling a story, not just awesome action.


Cerv posted:

yeah and really the embarrassment was justified to some extent.

20 something years later and I still find it funny though that I started in Warhammer with Dwarves. then immediately wanted to get started on Chaos Dwarves for a second army and Squats for 40K too.
I have continued to make poor life choices to this day.

If they wanted to do Space Dwarfs today, they could probably make something that looks amazing because their current tech enables them to make amazing models. The older Fantasy Dwarfs always made me think of Cotton hill, where their feet connect directly to their knees.


rear end-penny posted:

I dabbled in Warhammer 40k in high school, had an almost complete army of Dark Angels, I think I was still proxying a dreadnaught. Reading this thread has been a trip, a lot of you seem really knowledgeable of the cannon, versus even when I was buying models and getting together to have battles and I just only tangentially knew about the drama causing my marines to be blasting Chaos Marines, Necrons, and Tau. I remember finding out about Imperial Guard the last year or two I was really loving with Warhammer. Picking up a box and being like, what's this about Canadians? How do you get such a short end of the stick you don't even get goddamn power armor in this setting? Watching a friend set up his IG army and his gross number of minis, and understanding why that was the case as blast templates got laid out over them and vast swaths of them drop every turn.
It's too bad the fash tries to adopt every loving thing under the sun, glad to hear people in this community are speaking out against them when they bring their lovely ideology to gaming stores and tables.

Yea setting up a guard army is pretty fun watching your oppents face as you plop down 5 tanks and still have a ton of infantry to put down.

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





Mordja posted:

Surprised no one's brought up the Astartes CGI fan films. They tell an intriguing, minimalist sci-fi story seemingly removed from other 40k fiction. I honestly think they're better than similar fan creations because of it, and because there's genuinly impressive cinematography involved, not just cool graphics & action. Definitely some Dredd influence to it.

Astartes is really impressive.There is an honesty about it regarding the dark source material that is way beyond what I think Games Workshop would be willing to produce and release. It's not actually removed from 40k fiction btw, those gold mask psykers are pretty obscure but already part of the canon (I don't know poo poo about it, I just know it's an established faction).

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





twistedmentat posted:

Yea, Tyranids and Genestealers were separate until very late in Rogue Trader. But you're right, Tyranids are kind of boring because the faceless hoard is a more interesting idea than it is an actual thing. Why they decided to start having Necrons with character. Also Genestealer Cults are like the coolest army right now. It's taking all my will power to not build an army of them. I'm already commited to too many armies ;Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Imperial Guard, Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Necrons, Tau, Custodes, Eldar, Mechanicus and Sisters. To be fair, most of these armies are pretty much done and I don't need to buy anything new for them unless there are new releases.

I love the new Necron characters, they've made them so ancient and alien that they can be both friend and foe because their concerns are even beyond the Eldar. I love the Necron in the Fall of Cadia story just throwing out Pokeballs full of Space Marines from the Horus Hersey and other ancient times to fight against chaos.

If I wasn't poor as gently caress I'd consider doing Death Guard, Chaos Marines, Genestealer Cults and AdMech armies. They all have fantastic models but putting together a 2000 point list for any of them apart from Death Guard looks like it would cost over $500. Orks are the bestest but I used to play them in the early aughts and wouldn't consider starting them again until they update the ancient parts of the model lineup.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

Generally speaking, it's not worth engaging with takes like the one you quoted. There are a lot of people out there desperate to tell you the game died X years ago and only rich Nazis play it now. Mostly these people are bitter weirdoes who drifted away from the game/fiction but cannot let go.

Filthy Hans posted:

If I wasn't poor as gently caress I'd consider doing Death Guard, Chaos Marines, Genestealer Cults and AdMech armies. They all have fantastic models but putting together a 2000 point list for any of them apart from Death Guard looks like it would cost over $500.



40K models run double to quadruple what they cost when I played, and even then groups were falling apart because of dramatic jumps in model prices.

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





Cease to Hope posted:



40K models run double to quadruple what they cost when I played, and even then groups were falling apart because of dramatic jumps in model prices.

The only solace for me is that you can get great, relatively cheap Death Guard models from people selling half of Dark Millenium and Chaos Marines from half of Shadowspear because vendors split the kits up and sell individual units on Ebay

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


If they wanted to do space dwarves today as more technologically advanced humans who live mostly underground and are obsessed with finding treasure, they'd make the Adeptus Mechanicus a playable army.

wait

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

Everything is subject to the needs of intelligence, for geniuses like me. If we actually solve problems, people won't need me and people like me, and this is a travesty without end. You have to squeeze the poor so they know their place, and you fucking commies forget that.


Mordja posted:

Surprised no one's brought up the Astartes CGI fan films. They tell an intriguing, minimalist sci-fi story seemingly removed from other 40k fiction. I honestly think they're better than similar fan creations because of it, and because there's genuinly impressive cinematography involved, not just cool graphics & action. Definitely some Dredd influence to it.

Astartes is so good that I'm highly dubious that one person made it.

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

Squats rule, Tyranids drool

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





Laterite posted:

Squats rule squat, Tyranids drool acid and pheromones

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Filthy Hans posted:

If I wasn't poor as gently caress I'd consider doing Death Guard, Chaos Marines, Genestealer Cults and AdMech armies. They all have fantastic models but putting together a 2000 point list for any of them apart from Death Guard looks like it would cost over $500. Orks are the bestest but I used to play them in the early aughts and wouldn't consider starting them again until they update the ancient parts of the model lineup.

A bunch of those are just 2k or there about armies. I just enjoy collecting armies. It doesn't help models just keep looking better and better.

Ive been able to resist age of sigmar for the most part, just got stormcast and deepkin. I have cities of sigmar and slaves to darkness which I don't need to buy anything/very much for because I already had tons of wfb already.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant



Laterite posted:

Squats rule, Tyranids drool bits of squat from out of their many fearsome jaws

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Trailer for the new edition is pretty awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9V0bOB8sXQ

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!

PeterWeller posted:

The fluff just moved away from Squats too. Their relationship with the Imperium was much like the WHFB Dwarfs' relationship with the Empire. They were allies who helped the Imperium with technology. As technological stagnation and xenophobia became bigger and bigger parts of the Imperium's lore, their relationship with the Squats made less and less sense.

The AdMech also took some of this “space” as the Machine God became more of a literal thing and less of A Canticle For Liebowitz. Now that I’m thinking on it, is sort of like the Jews I guess (two gods that were, mostly for political reasons, declared to be selfsame/equivalent so that some sort of uncomfortable coexistence was possible based on mutual need of both parties). But the AdMech is powerful and Jews were not, so the place of Squats-as-Jews in the Imperium sort of makes more sense?

E: In before Mel Brooks video.

E2: In my great Imperial Guard building project I’m going to have squats made from those Sigmar Steampunk Dorfs driving tanks and riding bikes (Tauros Buggies or maybe White Scars?). They’re drawn from the “Amalgamated Imperial Brotherhoods” which is what I call the surviving Squat Brotherhoods which got integrated/annexed by the Imperium after Behemoth.

E3: the new Necromunda Cawdor book has a squat in it and this seems to be the political situation. Which is good, I like having my Imperium being HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE IIIINNNNN SSSPPPPAAAACCCCEEE.

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 13:33 on May 25, 2020

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008





Schadenboner posted:

The AdMech also took some of this “space” as the Machine God became more of a literal thing and less of A Canticle For Liebowitz. Now that I’m thinking on it, is sort of like the Jews I guess (two gods that were, mostly for political reasons, declared to be selfsame/equivalent so that some sort of uncomfortable coexistence was possible based on mutual need of both parties). But the AdMech is powerful and Jews were not, so the place of Squats-as-Jews in the Imperium sort of makes more sense?

E: In before Mel Brooks video.

E2: In my great Imperial Guard building project I’m going to have squats made from those Sigmar Steampunk Dorfs driving tanks and riding bikes (Tauros Buggies or maybe White Scars?). They’re drawn from the “Amalgamated Imperial Brotherhoods” which is what I call the surviving Squat Brotherhoods which got integrated/annexed by the Imperium after Behemoth.

E3: the new Necromunda Cawdor book has a squat in it and this seems to be the political situation. Which is good, I like having my Imperium being HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE IIIINNNNN SSSPPPPAAAACCCCEEE.

I think the AdMech see the Omnessiah as an aspect of the Emperor, Hindu-style, rather than a Christian/Jewish thing

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014




Hell Gem

Did GW throw out that whole Machine God probably being a C'tan thing?

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007
GW BRAINWORMS CREW OFFICIAL HYPE MAN

College Slice

It's very much an Abrahamic "People of the Book" thing. They accept that there is one god and they just happen to have different religions with crossover. The way the Ad Mech operate within Imperium territory seems very much like the Islamic dhimma contract to me. Protected status with self-rule and exceptions from most moral and legal constraints, but not total autonomy and still obligated to be loyal to the Imperium.

And then of course you have the dissident cults within the Mechanicus who think he is a false prophet. Which is also where the C'tan stuff starts creeping in.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 14:26 on May 25, 2020

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015



Filthy Hans posted:

I think the AdMech see the Omnessiah as an aspect of the Emperor, Hindu-style, rather than a Christian/Jewish thing

i can see how you'd say that but tbh it was pretty christian, at least originally

when the emperor came to mars to unify it with the early terran empire, the majority of the cult mechanicus first thought he was the physical incarnation of the omnissiah born into the universe long foretold by prophesy; the emperor begrudgingly allowed this belief to continue because for the martians religion-truth-science was all inseparably bound together -science had fully degenerated into superstition - and it would simply be too much effort to bring them in line with the atheism of the imperial truth, especially if he wanted to make immediate use of their understanding of tech for his crusade

the treaty of mars later hashed out the formal relationship between the cult mechanicus and the early terran empire where mars & its forge world empire remain technically autonomous entities but owe a variety of services to terra while agreeing to never to research certain forbidden knowledge; ultimately big e as the omnissiah acts as the glue that holds together this agreement between earth, who were supposed to see him as a great leader, and mars, who want to see him as the omnissiah, and the imperium of man w/ a two-headed aquila was born from the treaty

it's possible the cult mechanicus views the emperor differently since the ten thousand years he's been enthroned but that's the gist of how they're obligated to view him, in the 41st millennium the overall imperium nominally doesn't care how you view the emperor so long as he's somehow the god-emperor of mankind; the ministorum, however, really pushes their version hard (for e.g. they would accuse the mechanicus of ignorantly worshipping only a single aspect of him while generally loathing the pseudo-dhimma contract the imperium maintains) and that puts enormous tension between the ministorum and the cult mechanicus

hard counter fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 25, 2020

Guyver
Dec 5, 2006



"begrudgingly "

The literal first thing the Emperor does when he steps foot on mars is fix a chronic knee problem in a Knight by poking it and saying "Machine heal thy self."

Senator Drinksalot
Apr 30, 2013


Is this the first cinematic CGI trailer for a book release ever made? https://youtu.be/B9V0bOB8sXQ

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hard counter
Jan 2, 2015



Guyver posted:

"begrudgingly "

The literal first thing the Emperor does when he steps foot on mars is fix a chronic knee problem in a Knight by poking it and saying "Machine heal thy self."

there is definitely some weird mixed messaging where big e whispers the imperial truth into one ear and then all but disowns a primarch for trying to worship him, but then he'll shift around to the other ear and whisper see how godlike i am and intentionally use his powers to manifest halos, miracles, angelic choirs and anything he can think of to impress and create majesty

you could try and argue that big e is showing by example that miracles don't mean godhood, so people shouldn't worship chaos just because they can do miracles too, but in the end you gotta be thinking... yikes

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