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Alright, fine. In it to get lunched for too much setup speculation D1. Assuming Sal is okay with me joining. Cause I did say I wouldn't sign up for any more games with him to avoid upsetting him, but then we also kinda made peace so maybe it's fine? I've also had a few more games to adjust to this new "being nice to people" thing that the kids these days are into. EDIT: Oh, and Squiggly's in the game, so I won't be the biggest rear end in a top hat here regardless. 
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May 28, 2020 01:51
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 11:11 |
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SalTheBard posted:Jesus. I don't care if you play. Wasn't a dig, honest. I just wanted to make sure you'd be okay with it cause I did promise at one point I wouldn't sign up for the same games as you anymore if it was going to make you unhappy.
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May 28, 2020 03:03
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Jose Valasquez posted:This is some high quality bussing in the pregame I don't know what alignment Sal will be, I'm just establishing that I'm a man of my word so that when I promise I'm Town you'll all believe me.
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May 28, 2020 03:13
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Confirming that my Town streak has continued to I think eight games now. ##vote Maigius cause I failed to last game, and should have.
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May 29, 2020 03:05
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Tom Tucker posted:OK sound off who takes their Mafia SERIOUSLY and who takes their Mafia not so seriously? Not seriously at all. You know me, I'm here to just post a few jokes, shoot the poo poo, vote for whoever at deadline because what are cases anyway? Just words.
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May 29, 2020 13:32
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Scientastic posted:Que syrah syrah I award you no pinots for this joke.
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May 29, 2020 15:27
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Scientastic posted:Excellent, we’re out of jokephase, as Andy tries to throw shade at a newbie for drawing a perfectly sensible conclusion about the game mechanics I dunno, I'm on the fence about it. Like, it is kind of a reasonable assumption to make based on how things work in other non-Mafia games, even if in Mafia, items don't typically get "looted" from a dead player. But on the other hand, when I was rookie scum in Robot Mafia a hundred million years ago, I made a very similar "assumption" that was in fact a scum slip and got correctly lunched for it. And it's certainly reasonable of Andy to ask him to clarify at least.
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May 29, 2020 19:04
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Sandwolf posted:yeah but Andy you also just kinda scumclaimed, even if it was joke, the joke seems to be “haha look I’m seriously scumclaiming” The whole interaction seems weird to me. Sci initially seemed serious, then kinda adopted a tongue-in-cheek jokephase like tone in the subsequent back-and-forth with Andy. Meanwhile, I think Andy's scumclaim was meant to make the whole exchange seem jokey and innocuous, but it seems self-conscious that way, like "ha ha very funny, you know he's joking guys... you are joking, right?" I dunno if they'd be so awkward about faking this interaction if they were scum together, but it makes me feel not so great about both of them.
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May 29, 2020 20:58
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Yeah, ##vote Scientastic I really don't like this whole "I was just kidding to provoke a reaction" backpedal. The original vote on Andy didn't seem like a joke to me, especially not after this response to me: Scientastic posted:Nah, he’s trying to make out it’s a scum slip, he’s not clarifying It's scummy the way he's now backpedaling from it and making it out like the whole point from the start was to see who'd react. Especially when supposedly scummy reactions include: (1) Voting Andy, (2) Defending Andy, (3) Being on the fence about Andy. Scientastic posted:Yeah, but look at all the interaction its provoked
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May 29, 2020 21:40
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MisterJed posted:Xopods, was your situation that you made an reasonable speculation about mechanics and got l*nched for it, or that you made a possibly unreasonable speculation that outed you as scum? It was a long time ago but basically there was a booster item that gave whoever got it an improved version of their power. Somehow it was public knowledge that if the bearer was NKed, the killing player got it. That was me. I had it. I don't even remember if it specified what would happen to it if I was lynched or if I was just assuming, but I believed it was equally obvious that if the bearer was lunched, the hammering player would get it. So at one point I said something like "Oh, before we hammer so-and-so, should we discuss who should drop the hammer in case he has the doohickey? We don't want it to go to Scum." Everyone took this as a slip, because it wasn't common knowledge what would happen if the doohickey-haver got lunched. And they were right, at least in as far as that I was in fact Scum and the one who had the doohickey. Though at the time I felt like it was a bullshit reason to get lunched because it just seemed like a natural assumption to make.
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May 30, 2020 21:31
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I notice that not a lot of people are voting Scientastic, who is the scummiest person in the game right now. You should all do that. Spoonsy's vote on Hum seems lazy and superficial, but you could say the same about the people voting for him. There have been a lot of lazy, superficial votes this game e.g. on the Andy joke scumclaim... I think that's more a symptom of the game size than an alignment tell on D1.
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May 30, 2020 21:40
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cheese sandwich posted:This feels lacking. Like, if there's a scummy argument to be made about Sci it's that he's still maintaining Andy's scummy based on his joke but he's moving on and making an effort to reanalyze in a way that I can see from a town mindset It wasn't a joke vote, is the thing. When I first challenged him on it, he responded in a way that made it clear he was serious: Scientastic posted:Nah, he’s trying to make out it’s a scum slip, he’s not clarifying But then Andy tried to play it like a joke and Sci kinda went with that until chaos ensued and accusations started getting flung around. At that point, Sci switched to acting like it had been a gambit to generate content from the start. I mean, it does happen that people make what they know is a weak case D1 just to get things going, but the way he did it doesn't strike me as him having that intent from the start. It seems more like he tested the waters and decided that the case was going to cause too much controversy especially after Andy scumclaimed.
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May 31, 2020 16:10
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I'd also vote for Maigius based on that second maybe-slip. He did immediately explain in the following post why he was specifically curious about the functioning of Town magic powers, but it seemed self-conscious. Likewise, the whole "killing people to get their items" thing isn't automatically a slip, because it's reasonable speculation even without special knowledge of the setup. However, it does seem like the sort of thought that's more likely to originate from a Scum perspective. Neither is individually very damning on its own, but in combination they seem like more than coincidence. Especially given how self-conscious the immediate follow-up on the second one reads.
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May 31, 2020 16:29
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Squiggly posted:Oof tough break xopods you're sweeping my titles away from me gonna have to step up my game I'm okay with being called mean and bad at Mafia if it's by Scum, which it is here.
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May 31, 2020 17:34
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Squiggly posted:Are you calling scientastic scum here? Because after a reread he is just full of hot takes and votes I've been pretty clear that I think Sci is scum.
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May 31, 2020 18:19
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Sandwolf posted:That’s a very persuasive case on Steak, I think It makes me feel good about Rosa, at least, because I think "OMG look at this outrageous scumbo" is the natural reaction to Steak's weird approach to the game if you've never played with him before. As for Steak's alignment, I don't think I'm capable of determining it based on early-game posting because he's just too weird.
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May 31, 2020 18:29
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Scientastic posted:I’m already used to you just thinking I’m scum, and I’m fine with it, but seriously throwing shade at Maigius in anything other than an advisory mafia dad kind of way is bad sportsmanship I just finished playing Maigius's first game with him. He was scum in that game, got a newbie pass until LYLO, then managed to be only the second-scummiest person in the game at that point and won. He doesn't get any more free passes from me.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:35
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CapnAndy posted:First off, I do not like how xopods is trying to dictate some narratives in the most damning way possible. I "tried to play it like a joke", Sci made "what they know is a weak case", I "scumclaimed", Sci "tested the waters". Notice that in his telling neither sci nor I are acting in good faith; he's calling us both liars and also once again managing to not only miss the very obvious sarcasm in both our posts: "I skipped every post since my last post. Who is scum tell me now" "me obviously" and "Yeah, but look at all the interaction its provoked" are both very hard to take as intended to be serious points, but xopod's doing it. There are several things wrong here: 1) You were clearly being sarcastic and I've never tried to present it otherwise. You scumclaimed in a joking manner, and behaved as if you beileved Sci was also joking. However, I do not believe that Sci was in fact joking. His responses to you were playing along with your jokes, but before any of that happened, he defended his case from my criticism in a non-joking manner. 2) I did not call you scum at any point, "low key" or otherwise. Conversely, there is nothing "low key" about the way in which I've called Sci scum. I've been very overt. 3) You seem to be reading my post about Maigius one paragraph at a time and not as a whole. What you call "equivocating" is me acknowledging that either of his slips has a reasonable, non-scummy explanation on its own but that IMO the combined odds of making two such slips in the same game day and being Town are small. Once can be a coincidence, just a Townie making a weird assumption, but twice is a pattern, or as much of a pattern as you're likely to see D1 in a game of Mafia.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:50
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xopods posted:2) I did not call you scum at any point, "low key" or otherwise. Conversely, there is nothing "low key" about the way in which I've called Sci scum. I've been very overt. Correction: I guess I did initially say the exchange made me feel "not great" about both of you, but Sci's subsequent post about "look at all the content" convinced me he was the scum in that exchange, so I haven't really been thinking about you as potentially scummy since then.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:54
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CapnAndy posted:You're still not voting him. That's because I'm voting for Sci. You see, I'm in the unfortunate position of having only a single vote, yet believing there might be two (or possibly even more!) Scum in the game.
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Jun 1, 2020 11:56
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Mr. Steak posted:lol why does it seem like this point comes up in every game? Obviously Mafia needs electoral reform. A ranked preference + instant runoff voting system would eliminate this lazy line of questioning from the game. Votefinder needs to catch up with advances in electoral theory.
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Jun 1, 2020 14:03
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Mr. Steak posted:i'd unironically be VERY interested in a mafia game that worked like that. (tho getting entire ranked lists from every player every day would be a gigantic pain) I might be willing to run a small, all-Vanilla game along those lines just as an experiment. Like, 7 Town, 2 Scum, nothing else weird except the voting mechanic.
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Jun 1, 2020 14:53
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I guess I'll switch to ##vote Maigius at this point because there's zero traction for Sci. I'd vote for Steak to avoid a no-lunch despite the fact that he's null for me at this point because he can be such a distraction. Spoonsy seems more lazy than scummy to me and Sci's voting him so I think I'd rather pass on that one. PQ's close to outright lurking so I'd vote him too although I suppose we could also just see if he ends up getting himself modkilled so we don't waste a lunch. Dmboogie's almost as bad. Won't vote CapnAndy, as he seems alright and like I said before, I don't think he and Sci can both be scum (I know, don't connect unflipped players, blah blah... I'm doing it anyway.) Is there a case on Humalong besides the fact that he assumed there were two scum teams? Cause that doesn't seem very damning to me in a 26-player game. I'll be around for deadline.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:03
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Alright, ##vote Mr. Steak because I definitely don't want to lunch Spoonsy after all these lovely-rear end votes have come pouring in. Emotionally, I'd rather lunch Cpig because I hate this aggressively refusing to play the game until D2 thing that some people do. However, it wouldn't be very hard to conjure some sort of fake opinion on one of the 25 other players in the game if he were Scum, and that'd be all he'd have to do to guarantee he coasts through to D2 at this point... so my brain says it's a Town tell even if my heart says lunch him.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:54
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CapnAndy posted:- We very much need to discuss the fact that spoonsy can manipulate votes. It's apparently pretty limited, but any kind of moving votes around doesn't seem super great to me. Assuming he's being truthful about his role, the specifics are a bit worrisome. The fact that the person's free to move their vote after the fact means that's it's really only useful for moving a vote that will result in a hammer (or close to deadline if the person with the vote is going to be absent until then). Which is much more useful to scum. The fact that they can only be forced to vote for someone they already voted for sounds like an attempt to balance the power such that it doesn't mean an automatic Scum win at LYLO. The only thing I can say in his favor is that he moved the vote off himself onto a scum (or "Cult," which I assume is scum since the OP says no alignment changes in this game). That would seem self-destructive if he was on Steak's team, since the power itself likely means he's going to end up lunched sooner or later. However, with two kills and this being a gigantic game, there's a decent chance he could be either 3P or on a separate scum team and thought he was moving the vote onto a Townie. So, yeah. ##vote Spoonsy Still also very much down for a Sci or Maigius lunch though I guess I should look back at them with Steak's flip in mind... can't do that right now cause I'm DMing a D&D game in 2 minutes.
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Jun 2, 2020 23:57
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Sandwolf posted:valid but I think it is important, since it will be in the spotlight, that he makes his own decision with it This doesn't make sense to me. Presumably the logic of getting Spoonsy to demonstrate his power again, since he's already done it once, is to ascertain that he's being truthful about the details of its functioning. Because there's no doubt that he's got a power that moves votes. If he makes all his own decisions about how and when to use it, we're not going to catch him in a lie, as he can make decisions that avoid him trying to use his power in a way that would conflict with his claim. I would therefore like to see him use it exactly as CapnAndy requested, to move Andy's vote back to Maigius. Sure, it means he can't use the power again today, but I don't see a pro-Town use for his power*, so little downside to him demonstrating it this way. I especially want to see Andy the demonstrate that he can still move his vote, that the echoed vote then disappears, etc. * Without speculating about roles we have no evidence for, anyway. It's always possible his power is a counter to some other power, like one that freezes someone's vote so they can't move it themselves, or whatever.
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Jun 3, 2020 11:32
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As for Maigius, I'd be happy to vote him too for all the reasons yesterday plus this grave-disturbing stuff. Although I'd be careful about interpreting flavor... I'm sure it is meant to provide clues, but it's also obvious they're not being super careful with it. It occurred to me that maybe if we're burying people in shallow graves, that it was "disturbed" because Maigius had to temporarily exhume the body in order to dig a deeper one. But when I went back to check whether the flavor implied that, I found that PQ wasn't really supposed to be dead at all: Amnistar posted:As the dust clears from the crowd kill, you find that PussyQuipped's house is empty, and they appear to have abandoned you all to your fates.
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Jun 3, 2020 11:38
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Scientastic posted:I agree that we should be careful about reading too heavily into flavour, but I definitely don't agree with that interpretation of PQ's death: PQ leaving and appearing to abandon is flavour, the fact is that he was modkilled, possibly Amni just gave it that flavour to delineate it from NKs and executions. I'm not saying that the "disappeared and left us to our fate" thing is a clue. Quite the opposite. I'm saying that we shouldn't pay much attention to the details of the flavor because that inconsistency shows that the mods aren't being very meticulous about it. Something that looks like a clue could easily be mod whimsy or inattention. So, obviously something happened with PQ's body last night, but I'm not sure the fact that it says the grave was "disturbed" should lead us to believe that either Maigius is lying or a second person visited PQs body. That could just be the way Amni decided to describe Maigius burying the body better or digging it up to hide the items, or however it is that he prevents anyone else from getting them.
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Jun 3, 2020 13:09
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That's not a defense of Maigius, mind you. Even if he's being 100% honest about his power it could equally be Scum or Town, for the same reason that a "get item from dead player" power could equally be Scum or Town, namely that most items are probably going to be useful to either team. I just don't want to get in a situation where if Maigius does flip funeral director or whatever it was he claimed, we go on a wild goose chase for whoever "actually" disturbed the grave. Maigius's power as claimed could have produced that flavor IMO.
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Jun 3, 2020 13:12
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Although I guess PQ was also the only dead player with a tech item, and Maigius's claim implies an item retrieving role is out there, so it stands to reason that in the absence of other viable targets both of them would have gone to PQ. Either way the flavor doesn't change much. Either Maigius is lying and is an item-retriever himself, or he's the counter to that role, but both of them visited the same target since there was nowhere else for them to have gone.
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Jun 3, 2020 13:17
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SalTheBard posted:I forget that not everyone is aware of our friendship. I probably should've lead with that yesterday. Yeah, I'm trying to resist the urge to criticize you for making voting decisions based on out-of-game sentiment again, but if you could at least make it clear when that's what you're doing, it'd go a long way towards not getting cased for having defended Scum that way later on. It does bring me back to a question that I wanted to ask D1 though, which is why you're okay with coming down so hard on Maigius this game - even from D1 - when in Bastard you said you defended Angelwolf (on D2) because you felt bad for them getting cased so hard. Is it just that Maigius seems to be taking it better than Angelwolf?
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Jun 3, 2020 13:56
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CapnAndy posted:Agh, you're so close to seeing it! If Maigius is telling the truth about everything, then he's built specifically to counter a single role, he and the role he counters interacted, and the role he's meant to counter... countered him instead. Following the chain of his logic all the way to the end leads to a blatant contradiction. Yeah, I missed the bit where he said "for sure" the items are missing. That's pretty weird. It'd be one thing to assume that they were missing because of the disturbed grave flavor or because he infers the existence of the other role and assumes (or got clarification from the mods) that his action comes after the item-getter's or something. But you're right that he shouldn't be so certain of that unless he got the item himself, in which case he's lying. ##vote Maigius But I also want to see Spoonsy do the thing you asked him to do with his power, for all the reasons I said before. I'll have to take a closer look at this merk/Sci fight later too but this is a kinda hellish day so I don't know if I'll have time this evening. Good thing deadline's tomorrow anyway.
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Jun 3, 2020 17:24
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Spoonsy posted:Please note Andy's vote has been moved Alright. Now that you've demonstrated it again, do you have any theories about how this power is useful to Town?
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Jun 3, 2020 18:20
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Squiggly posted:I see this and want your perspective on the opposite side Pretty much exactly the way he did use it, except that he did it prematurely. Like, imagine you're Scum with this power and the vote gets split between you and someone not on your team so you're both at -1. As long as there's one person on you who previously voted the other guy (not uncommon), you flip the vote and it hammers the other guy. If you're really lucky - since there seem to be multiple non-Town factions here - then it turns out the other guy is also Scum but with the other team, and you maybe you don't get lunched at all. But even if you do, forcing a mislunch is partial compensation for you dying, and if you're using the power you were presumably going down anyway. It ends up being almost like a lunchbomb. It'd also be a really useful power for a Luncher-type 3P role. Maybe that's even more likely than Scum though I'm only thinking about it now.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:20
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Squiggly posted:It seems like it invites a lot of scrutiny especially in your circumstance. It would require near perfect play to use well as scum. I don't see it near 100% scum is all It's not a great power no matter what, unless it's specifically designed for use with/against some other role or in some circumstance we know nothing about. It just seems more likely to me that you could use it productively as Scum (or non-Town) than as Town. More importantly, though (IMO, since I like to reverse engineer setups), it really looks like it's designed with the idea in mind of "how do we give a non-Town player a double vote without it meaning an automatic Town loss at LYLO"? Because the upside of the power seems very similar to double voter. It's just that it has this weird restriction that it requires someone to have previously voted for the person you want an extra vote on. Where does that restriction really come into play? At LYLO, when people don't vote prematurely and don't move their votes much or at all. When is double voter OP for scum? At LYLO. That's where I'm coming from. The restriction makes the most sense as a balancing element if it's in Scum hands.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:35
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Anyway, this Spoonsy stuff seems like a moot point today because we probably have to lunch either merk or Maigius at this point... I'm tempted to switch to merk because I can't figure out why he wouldn't explicitly confirm or deny the claim. I mean, if Maigius were lying, presumably merk would say so. But if merk did pick up the item I don't know why he'd refuse to say so... as either alignment really. It seems scummy to withhold that info but I don't see the upside in that case... it's not LESS suspicious to refuse to reveal anything, since collecting items from the dead isn't an inherently scummy power (thematically maybe, but not mechanically). It's really confusing. Like, maybe he's hoping that Maigius will flip something that makes it apparent Maigius was lying and that we'll leave him alone after that, but then surely someone's going to ask "well if Maigius was lying why didn't you say so?"
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Jun 3, 2020 19:46
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Yeah, I dunno. I'm hopelessly behind on work today and have to think about that and not this but ##vote merk for now at least.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:47
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merk posted:Why would I? Would your opinion of Maigius change if his claim was correct or incorrect? I guess I just don't see what's gained by not at least confirming/denying that you visited PQ's body. If we lunch Maigius it should be fairly evident whether or not he's lying... all withholding the info seems to accomplish as far as I can tell is make you look worse either way.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:32
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Sandwolf posted:no, but it’d change my opinion of you, because I consider people who trickle into out or are hesitant to just “come out with it” are usually trying to calculate the best plan behind the scenes. Yeah, this too.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:33
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 11:11 |
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merk posted:##vote Sandwolf Have you contributed anything to this game yourself beyond OMGUSing everyone who calls you scum?
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Jun 4, 2020 00:28
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