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 The Plot Against America is a new series from power team David Simon and Ed Burns based on the 2014 novel by Philip Roth. It is a period show that takes place initially in the 1940 of our history before diverging into an alternate history when FDR loses the presidential election to Charles Lindbergh (aviator, Nazi sympathizer). As with all Simons/Burns shows, the characters are completely realistic. The main focus of the series is on the Levin family, a Jewish family living in New Jersey and their experiences with antisemitism, suburban middle class life, and the growing signs of fascism they see and hear on the news.  Winona Ryder as Evelyn Finkel, Bess's older unmarried independently minded sister John Turturro as Rabbi Lionel Bengelsdorf, a charismatic leader and supporter of Charles Lindbergh Zoe Kazan as Elizabeth "Bess" Levin, Herman's wife and stay at home mother Morgan Spector as Herman Levin, an insurance agent with a promising career, and an opinionated New Deal socialist I am only part way through the second (of six) episodes, but so far this show is fantastic. I have avoided any reviews to keep myself from being spoiled, however from what I have read the series is extremely tense and depressing. Based on what I have seen so far, I am recommending it for fans of Simons/Burns!
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May 7, 2020 20:46
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 01:05 |
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As a Simons fan with sky-high expectations, this show exceedingly delivered. The first episode is heavy and dense, but once the historical divergence starts to happen the story really picks up and leaves you breathless by the end. There were some story points in the finale I didn't 100% comprehend, but that's probably by design. The interplay of real and alternate history is something I really, really want Simons to explore some more. I didn't know that ala Chernobyl, HBO released an hour-long podcast with every episode which will become mandatory for my inevitable re-watch. I kind of wish I knew that going in, but the writing depth is there for multiple viewings. What happened in Germany in the 40's wasn't some anomaly, it can and likely will happen again.
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May 7, 2020 23:06
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I just finished Episode 3 The show does a great job raising the tension level. Herman believes that he’s well informed but he’s living in the past/ is in denial. He happily looks at all the new great deals on listings because he’s preoccupied with buying his American family a nice American house, not realizing until Bess points it out that all those houses belonged to people who have seen the writing on the wall and moved to Canada. When they’re in DC Herman talks about how things should be and again it is Bess who knows that the time for free speech is over. Finally, after he’s confronted in the restaurant he immediately goes back to how he and Bess used to be. I’m getting a very bad vibe that the Herman may refuse to leave and the Levin’s will end up like the German Jews who refused to leave until it was too late. USA dystopia rule #1: get to Canada asap! Acting continues to be incredible. Morgan Spector is awesome, the child actors are great!
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May 8, 2020 00:13
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Watched it a week ago, as a Simons fan it did nothing for me. I'm not sure if it's the format or the source material but the pacing was pretty uneven with its overly long lulls intersped with awkward ellipses. Especially in the first half. Despite the good acting I could not get attached to most of the characters and ultimately felt like the show didn't have anything new or interesting to say about them. Most of them follow a predictable path and whatever social and political commentary there was felt trite to me. (cue the obvious parallels with the current US administration) It gets grating when the show keeps propping Roosevelt as a hero of the Jewish people when the guy made no particular effort to help European Jews fleeing the Nazis (to say nothing of the Japanese internment camps after the war started) and actively campaigned for reelection on the basis that he would not go at war with Germany. The show has good production values and does a great job at ramping up tension at times but it ultimately rings hollow. Also seconding this: TheOmegaWalrus posted:There were some story points in the finale I didn't 100% comprehend, but that's probably by design. Like what's with the burning of ballots in the epilogue, has Simons fallen out of love with electoral politics ? 
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May 8, 2020 00:57
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Thanks for making the thread. I finished the show yesterday and was surprised there wasn't alread thread for it. I mentioned it in the chat thread and it was kind of ignored so that was pretty strange, I guess the show flew under the radar somehow.TheOmegaWalrus posted:.. Didn't know about the podcast, these often seem to be a waste of time but I'll definitely give it a shot. Sassy Sasquatch posted:Watched it a week ago, as a Simons fan it did nothing for me. I'm not sure if it's the format or the source material but the pacing was pretty uneven with its overly long lulls intersped with awkward ellipses. Especially in the first half. Despite the good acting I could not get attached to most of the characters and ultimately felt like the show didn't have anything new or interesting to say about them. Most of them follow a predictable path and whatever social and political commentary there was felt trite to me. (cue the obvious parallels with the current US administration) quote:The show has good production values and does a great job at ramping up tension at times but it ultimately rings hollow.
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May 8, 2020 01:19
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mobby_6kl posted:I haven't read the book but apparently there everything just goes back to normal at the end. I thing that would be a huge copout and it makes a lot more sense that those who benefited and liked the direction things were going in under Lindbergh wouldn't just let that happen. Ok yeah, that's how I interpreted it as well and it's what makes the most sense in context. The other thing I got confused about was the whole plane disappearance plot as well as Evelyn and Lionel getting arrested for it in the middle of the night but there is no real follow up to either. The plane and the president disappearing are sort of hand-waved away with no real resolution and Evelyn and Lionel just get to live free of any consequences despite the accusation of treason. Did I miss something obvious?
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May 8, 2020 02:07
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I thought it was heavily implied they had multiple of those radar thingies and shot down the plane at another location, or at least saw it explode/crash by coincidence. That's the only way it makes sense that they prematurely shut down Alvin's station; they had to know it done. As for Evelyn and Lionel, they got the purge treatment form the VP. Somehow the FLOTUS had enough loyalists to get her out and get them released too and congress to remove the nazi VP (probably the least realistic part lol). They really betrayed the jews so I suppose nobody cared about that too much, it's not like racism was fixed
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May 8, 2020 09:44
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I read the book some years ago and thought it was pretty good. From what little I remember it toed a very fine line between 'things are fine and he is imagining things' and 'there is a plot against Jewish people'. So if they stuck to that then I can imagine why it might seem like the show feels inconclusive. Will give this a go, thanks for making the thread.
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May 8, 2020 12:42
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I had to pause 1/3 of the way through the final episode and will have to wait until later to finish it, but I actually laughed out loud during Lindbergh’s speech: [Paraphrasing] “I was in Washington, but I came here! *Holds for applause* Thank you! I am here, and I will go back to Washington! That is where I am going now. Good bye!”. It really captures what it’s like to listen to a Trump speech, with a bit more of a connection to linear time.
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May 11, 2020 14:20
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I watched this yesterday and a lot of it was so on the nose in terms of comparing to what is going on today but the setting, writing and the production completely saved it and made it feel terrifyingly real. It could've been so bad so easily. There was some genuinely tense poo poo and I had at least one moment where I very profoundly felt the "this could so easily happen today, holy poo poo." Great performances too, John Turturro in particular and as an aside, if they ever make a Groucho Marx biopic, I hope Morgan Spector plays him. Winona Ryder still really overacts though, but even that didn't ruin this for me.
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May 11, 2020 14:27
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mobby_6kl posted:Thanks for making the thread. I finished the show yesterday and was surprised there wasn't alread thread for it. I mentioned it in the chat thread and it was kind of ignored so that was pretty strange Why didn’t you just make it yourself? The people in Couch Chat don’t just exist to make threads at your behest.
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May 11, 2020 14:28
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Just finished it. While it was pretty on the nose, I really liked it. The Into the South Rescue Mission of Seldon was well done and I'm glad that he gets to grow up with a couple brothers ( ).
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May 12, 2020 02:12
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Wanna applaud this show for casting people who actually sound like they are from Canada and not Minnesota as Canadians
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May 12, 2020 02:18
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I really think that the plotline about the weird kid who stalks people should've been cut.
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May 12, 2020 17:25
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I thought the show was a bit too slow to build up I only watched it because David Simon from the Wire was involved. It was wasn't bad but nothing amazing. The history part is interesting though because I didn't recall FDR ever running against Lindbergh. Had to look it up but in reality for his 3rd term in 1940 Roosevelt ran against Wendell Willkie a moderate republican with no government experience and beat him in a landslide. I wish the show had given some kind of history lesson about how Lindbergh was not a presidential candidate, and what made him run for office that would have been interesting. But the entire focus of the show is only on members of one family. DropsySufferer fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 12, 2020 |
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May 12, 2020 20:46
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Alhazred posted:I really think that the plotline about the weird kid who stalks people should've been cut. A friend of mine argued that it sets up the youngest going to see Evelyn at her office on his own. It’s not a great payoff but it’s not entirely useless.
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May 12, 2020 22:06
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DropsySufferer posted:I thought the show was a bit too slow to build up I only watched it because David Simon from the Wire was involved. It was wasn't bad but nothing amazing. I liked the limited scope tbh, it felt real. Lindbergh's assassination not being shown or really anything happening with one of the main characters was unique and cool because of the lack of information.
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May 13, 2020 17:02
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Professor Shark posted:I liked the limited scope tbh, it felt real. Lindbergh's assassination not being shown or really anything happening with one of the main characters was unique and cool because of the lack of information. The show gives you just enough information so that you can piece it together yourself and I really like it when writers does that.
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May 13, 2020 17:06
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Escobarbarian posted:Why didn’t you just make it yourself? The people in Couch Chat don’t just exist to make threads at your behest. Sassy Sasquatch posted:A friend of mine argued that it sets up the youngest going to see Evelyn at her office on his own. It’s not a great payoff but it’s not entirely useless. Alhazred posted:The show gives you just enough information so that you can piece it together yourself and I really like it when writers does that.
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May 17, 2020 09:19
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Late to the party on this show, but I just finished it. It’s so good at showing a believable, gradual descent into fascism. I guess it helps that actual reality looks a bit like this now, so I have a model for it to compare. The phone call between Seldon and Bess at the end stabbed me in the loving heart, and I wasn’t prepared for how impactful it would be. That and Herman’s drive to Kentucky to get him was just pure nightmare, the Klan chilling next to burning buildings with their masks up. Ugh, what a depressing show. It also succeeds at something that most politically-critical media about Trump fails to convey, which is that you can’t isolate racist toxicity to a particular person or administration...the damage is already done no matter who wins the election, because that toxicity is and was out there. Those Klansmen were already there. The people at Charlottesville will still exist by the thousands, no matter what happens in November. You can’t simply kill Hitler to stop the Nazis.
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May 24, 2020 00:49
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Xealot posted:Late to the party on this show, but I just finished it. It’s so good at showing a believable, gradual descent into fascism. I guess it helps that actual reality looks a bit like this now, so I have a model for it to compare. I think that the living room fight at the end is a great way to show that the world is going to live with the effects of Trump's America long after he is out of office. As you said, a horrible sector of our society (not just the US) has become emboldened and believe that it's safe to express their most hosed up and violent beliefs, and that isn't something that turns off like the flick of a lightswitch. Families and friendships are going to be shattered by these people and an intensified division in politics.
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May 24, 2020 11:17
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i liked the end fight because it showed each deficient in their worldview. nephew had the fire to fight but rested on his laurels and had no political framework for overthrowing the system, or was fine with the system as long as he gets his. levin had the politics down (debs-loving socialist) but wasn't as willing to fight, or if he was it was already too late. he almost literally spent his time Posting
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May 24, 2020 11:27
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Oh also near the beginning, what was john l lewis doing stumping for the gop
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May 25, 2020 12:11
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 01:05 |
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i say swears online posted:Oh also near the beginning, what was john l lewis doing stumping for the gop
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May 25, 2020 18:18
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