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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



That's a very good episode as Colm Meaney's acting chops are on full display; like the scene where he's losing his poo poo on DS9, rather than O'Brian's cheerful complaining

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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Laterite posted:

There's a lot of DS9 episodes that get harder and grimmer to watch with each passing year.

Honestly curious for a list of that

Actually that hosed up two parter with poor ghettos in the past springs to mind, but no fair picking that one, that was a criticism of RL politics at the time

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Filthy Hans posted:

I have nothing against Rosalind Chao but those episodes are boring-as-hell filler

That episode where she's possessed by a demon is good AF

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Filthy Hans posted:

S tier Trek episode


also you should include any episode where O'Brien has to play Falcon for the nth time in holodeck because Bashir must always indulge his narcissistic fantasies

I dunno, I think an engineer would have great fun playing the destructor

Fun fact from the old star trek threads: Meaney and Alexander Siddiq became bros in real life

Tulip posted:

I've only watched DS9 recently and that episode is really a peak example of "they needed people to watch it on fuzzy CRTs" because in high def it's really distracting how clean the slums are.

Some movies as well

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade:

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



mind the walrus posted:

It's especially funny that like Dax and Bashir and Kira are all these hot shots in their fields and Worf, Garak, and Odo are these unicorns... and Sisko is literally designated "The Special," but all the marketing likes to make it seem like DS9 is this place for cast-offs.

I mean that's true if you focus solely on Garak, Odo, and Kira... and arguably Worf, but even when DS9 wasn't going to be anything but a Federation nannycam for the Bajor/Cardassian border, it wasn't like Starfleet was sending in the D-List.

It's a theme on the show on how most of the cast members are alienated from their native cultures. Odo, Garak, Quark, Rom, Nog, (Actually all of Quark's family) and Worf are all outcasts, sometimes by choice. As mentioned, Sisko has rather understandable emotional issues and is being given a command post as he seems all burnt out in his previous career tracks. Kira is a small, impossibly angry person at the start of the show, and you get the impression that the Bajorians sent her to the station because 1) She's unquestionably a steadfast guardian of Bajor's interests, 2) Is an experienced terrorist/rebel, and thus excellent if the poo poo goes down, and 3) holy poo poo she's annoying, get her out of here. I mean, I'm pretty sure most of these characters have been formally thrown out of their societies for one reason or another.

Admittedly O'Brien is a champ, as is Dr. Bashier, but their motivation for coming for DS9 is that they like a challenge and want new experiences. (Huh, no wonder they fell into bromance.)

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Verviticus posted:

i dunno, he fumbles it pretty badly a few times at the start. he even drops the role as quickly as possible. earlier captain sisko is pretty short-sighted. i dunno if s1 sisko would have figured out so easily that the dominion was going to attack when they started mining the wormhole

one of the reasons i really like ds9 more than tng is how consistently and believably the characters develop. every character except maybe dax has considerable growth thats revisited a lot through the series, and in her case its fair because shes 300+ years old, her growth is like over a week once merged

In this line I especially like Kira, one of the only cable-era trek females that got to be a multi-dimensional character. She starts full of rage and kinda racist, and by the end of the series is helping the Cardassian George Washington incite a revolt

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



mind the walrus posted:

My point is less that they were/weren't alienated, and most that the marketing plays up DS9 as this roster of incompetents no one really wanted, when really most-if-not-all of them could find excellent gigs in Starfleet or elsewhere without that much trouble, even Quark, Odo, Nog, Garak, and Worf.

Four three of the five you list are not in starfleet

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



mind the walrus posted:

"Or elsewhere."

I still think you're underestimating the difficulty of being a disavowed intelligence agent with few friends and tons of enemies, or being a unique alien that is part of a race in an existential war with the Federation

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



BiggestBatman posted:

And it turns out eventually that Bashir is a genetic freak as well!

Derp, that's right. He may have privileged genes but that's a big black mark in a society where similar people took over the world and then destroyed it

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Kind of the whole point with the Ferengi arcs is that Rom's skills are explicitly devalued by the Ferengi, and he's failed miserably at the role society pushed him into- and Nog has seen this, and he knows his father has talents and that the Ferengi see them as nothing more than a resource to be exploited. Quark on the other hand would be doing well by business standards but traditional Ferengi hate him, more than he seems to realise, because he makes compromises to function in galactic society. It's even mentioned later that the rest of the quadrant is sick of the Ferengi's poo poo so they're looking for new customers in the Gamma Quadrant who haven't heard of them.

It's spelled out pretty clearly in the ep where Quark becomes an arms dealer- he's making money hand over fist, but DS9 command makes it clear they are looking for the first opportunity to kick him out til he makes a clean break with the business. And then when the FCA takes his license and assets the station crew find pretence to replace them and get his business started back up because they like having him around. Quark makes a big show of being a traditional Ferengi but his actions and behaviour indicate he really isn't, and actual traditional Ferengi hate him- of course, the irony is by the end the Ferengi have made radical social change for the same reasons as Quark, to start doing business more honestly because everyone already doesn't trust them, and Quark is left as a holdout that's traditionalist in comparison.



The fact that Quark likes running his bar and meeting people is against the grain already. Meanwhile you have Rom go from viewed as worthless to becoming an accomplished engineer and marrying Leeta, and look at those two and tell me Rom didn't start making good when he stepped away from Ferengi culture

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye




Whenever people compare the cable-era treks, I always point out there's lots of secondary characters in DS9 that got *way* more development than primary characters on TNG

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



After six seasons of 20+ 44 min episodes, a new guy showing up gets attention

It's really too bad Vic couldn't also have been installed on Voyager, there's an ep where Neelix has some problems and Chakotay is all "let's do some hallucinogenic drugs" and they make Neelix worse, and Chakotay is all "well, good luck in your future endeavors"

You have a chief engineer with really serious head problems and she keep inflicting them on others, and nobody does poo poo

You have an Lt. who for some reason has been kept an ensign because otherwise the senior officers wouldn't have a punching bag

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Dreylad posted:

I watched What You Leave Behind and man Garak gets a pretty brutal ending.

Because I love Andrew Robinson, I read the book he wrote using the character diary he kept for 7(?) years. It makes Garak's post-dominion life on Cardassia a little more positive. Basically Cardassia starts politically functioning again, and after some soul searching he sees the traditional party reforming (IE the dumb militarist dudes who caused so much devistation) and a democrat alternative, which Garak becomes an important figure in.

DrBouvenstein posted:

Didn't Paris, who, BTW, only had a temporary re-commission as part of some reduced sentencing agreement, get demoted to ensign then promoted back to Lt without Harry ever getting a promotion?

Yep!

And Harry at one point is killed and replaced with an alternate dimension Harry which everybody just forgets about

For that matter, Seven of Nine comes onboard and acts like a management consultant most of the time, bossing everyone around because she's charmed the Captian

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

I never watched DS9, I want to hear more about Worf being a total failure.

He's a weeaboo for Klingon culture, and so is his wife

But when Michael Dorn signed up for DS9, it was literally put into his contract that he was supposed to be a badass

And admittedly, Worf on DS9 is not being told not to do his job 24/7. He also murders Gowron, becomes the Emperor for like a minute, and then says "Yeah, Martok should be Emperor" which is not only badass but also correct

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Neo Rasa posted:

Tony Todd is so fuckin' good in the episodes he's in in both roles he's done.

He is, shoulda been a regular cast member. Though "Hey, erase my brother's identity so he doesn't kill himself" is a little hosed up

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Oh yeah, forgot about that, that was extremely badass

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



FunkyAl posted:

I watched the episode of Voyager where The Doctor introduces music to an advanced society which has none, and folks, how the gently caress did that happen. It doesn't make a lick of loving sense.

Similarly, it always irked me slightly that the Vorta are described as having no aesthetic sense, and I'm sure that's impossible for an intelligent being

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



spankmeister posted:

Have you seen the clothes they wear? Or the makeup?

Their clothes are perfect, they are multicolors that shift, that's perfect for agents and diplomats

McSpanky posted:

my dude have you been to nexusmods

No, and now I'm slightly worried what that is

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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



Anonymous Zebra posted:

TL;DR: Starfleet antagonizes and ignores the many diplomatic/military threats of the Dominion, forcing the Dominion to finally start a shooting war just to open up their supply lines back to their home territory.

lol

if only there was a thing called "setting up an embassy"

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