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Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



mind the walrus posted:

I honestly didn't mind the "salt" exclamation because idiots like myself couldn't tell wtf the landscape was meant to be. It was clunky, but I mean no worse than most of the Rebel dialogue in the OT. That's off the topic though.

The "hair" thing just seems like one of those moments where NuTrek tries to be cutesy but it falls flat because like all NuTrek it's borderline schizophrenic in trying to decide if it wants to be nice or dismissive of Old Trek.
I feel the problem with both is exactly the same: there's actually no need to say anything about it, but they still do because they just absolutely have to make this point to the audience. In TLJ's case, that point is: "look it's actually not Hoth all over again because it's salt instead of snow, just thought we'd point that out in case you didn't realise that". In Discovery's case, it's: "hey hey HEY look they've got hair again did you notice?? they're like before in olden times so we're good now right!!" It shouldn't matter at all what kind of surface we're looking at. Who loving cares! And lots of non-humans in Star Trek have hair. Why would Michael bring it up in the first place? Explicitly talking about these things just draws attention to the fact - or at least very heavily imply - that the writers/designers know they made a poor choice, but because it's too late to go back and do things differently they feel obligated to do some kind of overt damage control.

It's a different matter from exposition related to the actual plot or premise of a show/film, which I feel is more what Farmer Crack-rear end and Tighclops were referring to; even if that kind of exposition is done in a ham-fisted way, it at least serves a respectable purpose - reminding the audience of something they might've forgot, or cluing in a new audience to something that's important to know moving forward.

Anyway, enough of that. Can anyone explain to me why Star Trek: Beyond exists? Is there any reason for it (aside from the desire to generate more money, obviously)?

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Pick
Jul 19, 2009
mottled gecko

Nap Ghost

No, money covers it

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Beyond at least resembled a Star Trek story even if it was buried within all the action set pieces

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Beyond is still the best NuTrek for actively recognizing the potential in being the closest thing we'll ever get to a 60s-era TOS movie.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Filthy Hans posted:

Jason Isaacs is fantastic, if you want to see him at his best watch Brotherhood, a 3-season show where he plays a Providence RI gangster with a flexible conscience

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457229/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

Thank you for this. I will have to check it out.

Sombrerotron posted:

Anyway, enough of that. Can anyone explain to me why Star Trek: Beyond exists? Is there any reason for it (aside from the desire to generate more money, obviously)?

Beyond was an attempt to compromise between the inherent goofiness of Star Trek and the current demand of action-packed CGI blockbusters. It failed because it pleased no one. However, I did appreciate the tiny aliens that Kirk tries to negotiate with. That was pretty great. The redesigned uniforms were, too.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Beyond was good and if all of NuTrek could hit that bar I'd be ok with it. I'd even rank it the 5th best Trek movie overall, but that's more because the Trek movies are often really good or really dismal with very little middle ground.

Patrick Spens
Jul 21, 2006

"Every fighter says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"


Pillbug

I liked Beyond, but it bothered me a lot that they didn't capture and try to rehabilitate Idris Elba's character.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



That might bother me if that were a strategy for any other Trek antagonist ever, including the good ones. I'm not sure how you'd even portray that without coming across as cult-y. Like you're right that it's more Trek-appropriate to find a diplomatic response, but I can't think of any situation offhand in Old Trek where a clearly unhinged madman was met with "No wait... let's get this man some literature."

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

There ain't no need for ya
There ain't no need for ya
Go straight to hell, boys


The worst thing that ever happened to Star Trek was it getting more of a budget and abandoning the episodic formula for more serialized fiction. Star Trek isn't that built for longterm storytelling outside Deep Space Nine, which built up to it, so the result is just a lot of seeming filler just like every other prestige TV show and then developments for the sake of development as opposed to moving towards an actual goal.

The clips I've seen of Anson Mount as Pike struck me as really good and I really, really hope that show ends up going back to episodic formula, but everything else I've seen from Discovery... I just remember watching the pilot and thinking, "I'm supposed to root for this person, the person undertaking the dumbest mutiny in the history of the Federation, we're not flashing back to this, you're just... leading me off with this?" And then seeing clips of people gleefully saying, "Science!" makes me think the shows are more ads for NASA or whatever monstrosity Elon Musk is up to than actually questioning what life in the future would be like. Because we just kinda... don't imagine the future being good anymore, I guess. Television producers certainly don't, anyway. How many drat 9/11s has nu-Trek had already?

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Star Trek should on some level inspire people to want to explore space so pumping up NASA is probably one of the least offensive things STD could have done, unfortunately I can't recall a moment during the season and a half that I watched that qualified? I mean trekkies got the first shuttle named Enterprise and footage of it rolling out ended up in the intro for Enterprise, I think Mike Okuda even wound up designing mission patches for NASA for awhile too so actual spaceflight graphics started looking like Star Trek. They are intertwined.

If there were actual nerds writing this stuff as opposed to well-connected failsons/daughters they'd of namedropped SpaceX and/or their reusable booster rockets instead of the owner of the loving company. But, I'll bet that they just don't know anything about space or why the introduction of cheap, reusable cargo rockets would be an important thing in the future history of Star Trek so they went with the first name they recognized without really thinking about it because Musk is the face of the company and he deliberately cultivates that kind of mindless hero worship to satiate his own ego *inhales sharply*

As for the merits of serialized storytelling, we haven't seen anybody truly competent take a crack at that in Star Trek since DS9 ended. It could be that under this creative team, 40 minute self contained stories would suck just as hard as their season long trainwrecks?

TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

lol i reposted this in the gbs trek thread recently but might as well repost again in here since it's maximally relevant to this thread:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLCxAJdCZGg

This is pretty fitting, since Mass Effect 3 infamously used a random stock photo of a woman, painted her purple, deleted two of the fingers and said "yep thats an alium"

Patrick Spens
Jul 21, 2006

"Every fighter says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"


Pillbug

mind the walrus posted:

That might bother me if that were a strategy for any other Trek antagonist ever, including the good ones. I'm not sure how you'd even portray that without coming across as cult-y. Like you're right that it's more Trek-appropriate to find a diplomatic response, but I can't think of any situation offhand in Old Trek where a clearly unhinged madman was met with "No wait... let's get this man some literature."

Yeah, it just bothered me at the end of the movie where they're like, "We sent this guy out into the great beyond and it broke him.... welp sucks for him."

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Not all villains can be dealt with like V'ger and The Probe. Sometimes you just have to photon torpedo a god in the face.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Patrick Spens posted:

Yeah, it just bothered me at the end of the movie where they're like, "We sent this guy out into the great beyond and it broke him.... welp sucks for him."

That's fair. I'm not saying this in a take that way, but when you said that I immediately thought of Picard snapping the Borg Queen's spine.

Patrick Spens
Jul 21, 2006

"Every fighter says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"


Pillbug

Apparently the big bad of Picard is a giant evil space robot octopus??? Can someone who's seen it confirm?

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



I tried to find out, but stumbled on this article instead:

https://observer.com/2020/03/harry-...nale-interview/

quote:

Star Trek‘s greatest villains have always been colored by shades of grey. That was true for the brutal colonizer and hopeless romantic Gul Dukat on Deep Space Nine, the godlike manipulator and struggling dad Q on The Next Generation and Voyager, and the charmingly Byronic warlord Khan Noonien Singh on The Original Series. It remains true for Star Trek: Picard‘s Narek, played by Harry Treadaway (The Crown, Penny Dreadful). Narek is one of Picard‘s most engaging creations—an icon of modern emo pathos as well as intergalactic Romulan spy who is out to find and kill sentient artificial life, aka the “Synthetics,” across the universe.

Just loving lmao

Also, because this is what people are concerned about when thinking about Star Trek villains

quote:

Narek’s resolve is the key to his character. It’s also what makes Treadaway certain that Narek would vote for Bernie Sanders in the 2020 United States presidential election—if the character had the option.

“I wanna say Bernie,” Treadaway said, when we put the question to him. “Bernie wants to save the most amount of lives. He cares about healthcare for the most amount of people. If you look at Narek’s character arc, he’s trying to save the most amount of organic life forms possible.”

l m a o
m
a
o

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

did emos even survive past 2010? I thought they all died out like the Markab in Babylon 5

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Based on JJTrek, we've had emo Nero and emo Khan. I don't think Beyond's BBEG was emo, but lmao that the emo adventure continues well into the 24th Century.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

wait khan was emo? goddamnit I'm so old I dont' even know what emos look like anymore

maaatlooooocckk

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Bogus Adventure posted:

I tried to find out, but stumbled on this article instead:

https://observer.com/2020/03/harry-...nale-interview/


Just loving lmao

Also, because this is what people are concerned about when thinking about Star Trek villains


l m a o
m
a
o

This makes a certain kind of sense, as NuTrek feels very liberal right-wing.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

Hodgepodge posted:

the united federation of planets turned into the klingon empire so gradually that we didn't even notice

Star Trek captains are just as good at obeying the Prime Directive and other Federation laws as Klingons are at sticking to their code of honor.

Action Jacktion
Jun 3, 2003


Patrick Spens posted:

Apparently the big bad of Picard is a giant evil space robot octopus??? Can someone who's seen it confirm?

During the show we find out there are super advanced robots willing to wipe out organic life. In the last episode some androids contact them and we see a portal appear and metal tentacles come out of it. Then Picard gets the androids to change their minds and they shut off the signal and the portal disappears. Guess the super robots thought it was a false alarm.


Good lord. They ought to just forbid the creators from speaking about the show.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

mind the walrus posted:

This makes a certain kind of sense, as NuTrek feels very liberal right-wing.

lol that this was the thing about the modern world that finally pushed me over the line into communism

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
mottled gecko

Nap Ghost

Tighclops posted:

did emos even survive past 2010? I thought they all died out like the Markab in Babylon 5

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



mind the walrus posted:

This makes a certain kind of sense, as NuTrek feels very liberal right-wing.

The mask slipped off when they name-dropped Musk

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Tighclops posted:

wait khan was emo? goddamnit I'm so old I dont' even know what emos look like anymore

maaatlooooocckk

Khamberbatch seemed pretty emo. Crying, screaming, and cutting throughout the movie.

TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018


Bogus Adventure posted:

The mask slipped off when they name-dropped Musk

Is there any information out there that suggests Musk is buying all these menchies? He appeared in Iron Man 2 and got told he was super smart by iron man, he was namedropped in discovery, he appeared in Rick and Morty, etc

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Is there any information out there that suggests Musk is buying all these menchies? He appeared in Iron Man 2 and got told he was super smart by iron man, he was namedropped in discovery, he appeared in Rick and Morty, etc

It's possible. He's certainly vain enough.

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



Action Jacktion posted:

During the show we find out there are super advanced robots willing to wipe out organic life.
I'm so tired of all these Star Wars Treks.

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



I liked how they let Brent Spiner sit almost the entire time he played Data in "Picard" so he could hide his beer gut more easily.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



egon_beeblebrox posted:

I liked how they let Brent Spiner sit almost the entire time he played Data in "Picard" so he could hide his beer gut more easily.

You can't post that without showing evidence like this:

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

I think it's just as likely that Spiner insisted on a "I'm not getting up for this poo poo" clause in his contract

SolarFire2
Oct 16, 2001

"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat." - Meat And Sarcasm Guy!

Tighclops posted:

When they do that stuff now or even play the TOS fanfare I either feel nothing or am actively nonplussed by it, as opposed to getting chills. Is this what religious people feel like when they learn there are no gods and nothing waits for them beyond the veil of death but the icy embrace of the howling dark?

Star Wars fans have also been going through the process of having the thing they love destroyed and their enthusiasm ground out of them.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



SolarFire2 posted:

Star Wars fans have also been going through the process of having the thing they love destroyed and their enthusiasm ground out of them.

I love it. Their tears sustain me. Their cries of anguish are like music that soothes my tortured soul.

I loved both. Now I have no love for neither franchise's new endeavors.

Knormal
Nov 11, 2001



Taco Defender

Bogus Adventure posted:

You can't post that without showing evidence like this:


I can't believe they abandoned the long-standing Star Trek tradition of girdles.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Knormal posted:

I can't believe they abandoned the long-standing Star Trek tradition of girdles.

The girdle is an integral part of the Starfleet uniform. It's like boob-enhancing bras, the skorts, and the skants.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
mottled gecko

Nap Ghost

Starfleet issue girdle would be a great username

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Pick posted:

Starfleet issue girdle would be a great username

Mods, PLEASE

just another
Oct 16, 2009

these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

Th Nu Trek/Nu Metal comparison is very apt.

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docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

So having just finished watching Picard, I, er, I liked it.

As, like, a Firefly revival or something.

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