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pseudanonymous posted:Discuss. A New Hope is science fiction, the Death Star is a new technology that threatens to upset the balance of power and we explore how people react to that. Obi-Wan's little "that's no moon" moment is a pretty elegant bit of futureshock acting, I always thought. Same with Leia getting shown her home planet being destroyed just as a proof of concept. The Death Star is a cultural force too. The rest of it, yeah, technology never grows or changes ever again, even when we go back in time for the prequels which is bizarre. The actual day-to-day implications of mass Droid slavery are left remarkably unexplored, same with clones, same with everything except planet-buster-laser, that's the "new thing" and again, only for one movie. Even when we see people designing that laser in Ep II it's just a throw-away, it's not like anybody talks about the grasshopper aliens breaking a treaty to do it or something. So yeah I agree on every film except Ep IV, that one actually does have a glimmer of real classic speculative fiction in it, mostly because of Alec Guinness.
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May 17, 2020 19:20
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Zoran posted:One subtle touch I like is that prequel-era one-man starfighters can’t fit a hyperdrive, so they attach to external booster rings that they leave in orbit Okay yeah I guess that's fair. It's never a plot point, like Amidala says "the new ships are always so dirty, chrome will never go out of style!" but yeah that ring-thing young Obi Wan uses, that fits into the larger discussion of: SlothfulCobra posted:Tie fighters are one of the smallest starships we see throughout the movies, so there's not much room to work with, but more importantly, they were just designed without hyperdrives to cut costs. It's not like the Empire had any intention of sending strike forces without heavier ships to back them up. This also had the handy side effect of reinforcing individual pilot reliance on the command structure and left potentially disloyal pilots without a way to easily defect. Tie fighters don't even have life support, you have to wear a crappy black space suit while you pilot one. I always thought that was a nice dehumanizing aspect of the empire, and although it didn't end up this way, as a kid in the pre-prequels years I always thought that was how Darth Vader ended up a cyborg, he just spent so many hours piloting his fancy interceptor he eventually just never took off the gear. The first time a forcefield on a cargo bay failed and everybody not in a mask died it would have paid off, and it's not like the Empire would take an incident like that as impetus to fix anything.
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May 18, 2020 17:25
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Now I can't stop imagining A New Hope but the Empire have fancy X-wings with life support and the rebels have lovely tie fighters they have to pilot with space suits on. And it's maddening because I just keep thinking the only reason it's not that way is because you have to see the good guys' faces in a movie.
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May 18, 2020 18:05
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pseudanonymous posted:It could've been that the empire provided space suits for people so that if they had a hull breach they survived but the rebels were plucky and poor and couldn't afford advanced systems like that. Oh god this headcanon requires very specifically ignoring EU stuff that isn't real canon anymore, so I actually don't know if Tie Fighters don't have life support anymore and you might already be right? Star Wars actively makes it hard to be the kind of fan it's famous for, wtf.
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May 18, 2020 18:27
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They don't even have landing gear, do they? I thought TIE ships had to be loaded into those little docks with a robot arm, and they just rest on the bottoms of the hexagons. They're twin ion engines and a cockpit, like the cheapiest little ship possible.
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May 19, 2020 05:28
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So I guess what I'm taking away from this discussion so far is, there are sci-fi concepts being explored in Star Wars, it's just hard to pinpoint them because the continuity is such a giant mess that any possible meaning you glean from the imagery has been contradicted or confused by now. So it is sci-fi, OP, it's just not very good sci-fi.
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May 19, 2020 17:15
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pseudanonymous posted:I would argue that not it's just space fantasy or science fantasy. It doesn't actually care about any of the technology or human developments or realities of living with other species (who all essentially act just like humans) or robots or anything. Some of these things sort of creep in because it's such a ludicrously large IP at this point, but in truth, it's not Sci-Fi. I agree it flubs basically every objective of real sci-fi, it's not thoughtful or provocative or even smart. But we have to ask ourselves: are all science fiction stories successes? Is there not room for failed or attempted sci-fi, ones that consistently disappoint for like 50 straight years? This is similar to the dadaist art argument, that "art" simply refers to anything created by a person who considers their work art- but, by the same token, there is such a thing as bad art. If we add the requirement that to be sci-fi something has to be competent, that actually winnows the field quite a bit.
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May 19, 2020 17:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:In conclusion, ya-huh. Well said. Perhaps the "fiction" part of the definition is too broad to omit anything at this point. There's also the "science" part to consider. Science isn't just an industrial tool or a word on resumes, it's a philosophy, about seeking proof. Veritas! and so forth. And I think that's part of the intended feeling, as you pointed out is in any genre, for sci-fi. There's a reason science-inclined people are often science-fiction fans, and it's not just the trappings, there's an emotional quality to exploring the unknown and explaining it rationally that resonates with them especially. Star Wars' understanding of science is "what if the bad guys had the BIGGEST LASER! LASER MOON!" and "the new space ships are EVEN COOLER!" Does that 1st grade, D+ research paper qualify as scientific? It's really hard to say. Yes lasers are an instrument of science, and yes making one big enough to destroy the world would be quite the feat, maybe possible some day. Space ships have indeed come a long way. That's science, kinda? Of all the ways to break down Star Wars as a science fiction property, maybe this is the way to look at it: Art A+ Math A+ English C+ Science D+ see me after school But yes, it does move on to the next grade.
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May 23, 2020 02:56
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Frankenstyle posted:I like this explanation. I like it because if you follow it through you will see that there is no such genre as science fiction. FRANKENFIGHT! No I see your point, I've stretched the definitions to the point of absurdity. That's the objective of this exercise, right?
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May 23, 2020 20:20
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Drunkboxer posted:It’s a disease. Drunkboxer posted:star wars isn’t even a movie I read these as your avvy saying it and it was probably the most SA moment I've ever experienced.
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May 23, 2020 20:44
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Tulip posted:R2D2 is effectively a shape-changing horse R2D2 is the loving Sampo, just endless fuel and attachments pouring out of him like a magic windmill. And he's got full Strong AI and a sense of humor and can fly and shoot lightsabers and oil slicks. Why all armies AND fleets aren't just astromechs with warheads and hyperdrives in them is beyond me.
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May 24, 2020 15:24
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