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Omobono posted:Yes. Yes I call this sloppy. This Zero's just an rear end in a top hat. If he wanted to penalize D Team, he could've sent Nega Helmethead to beat them up. Or, y'know, killed them with the bracelet like in the other two games. I'm assuming he wanted them to find the bomb and kill Q Team with it because "gently caress you."
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Jul 4, 2020 01:58
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Onmi posted:Which, I'm starting to wonder if there's a guiding in the votes to push us down certain routes now. I heard this game was incoherent, but either people were overstating it or we're getting lucky, or the general thread is pushing in a knowing way. I think there are enough connections between the different fragments that playing them in any order allows you to find some coherent path through the game. You'll get different clues and reveals at different times for a unique journey but it's still a good one. I like to think my narrative and the thread discussion is helping to tie things together a little better, too.  That said...this path we're on does seem to be a particularly enjoyable one! Probably the worst way to play is going through all of a single team's fragments at once - you don't get any of the wider context that way. Glad we've mostly been avoiding that.  I remember what happens down these two paths, but not which path is which. Should be fun!
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Jul 4, 2020 04:32
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quote:Phi, this is a drill press, not a lathe. Also you might as well call this whole puzzle room Diana Bakuhatsu.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:55
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AweStriker posted:Phi, this is a drill press, not a lathe. "Dammit, Sigma, I'm a time-traveling protagonist, not a machinist!"
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Jul 4, 2020 06:13
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Part 55: Run Away Edit: Another present for the later readers - here's a full video of this whole update.    Music: Confession 2nd Mix  Diana takes off running.  Phi is right behind her.  The door slides shut.  Sigma never left.    I'm not sure what Sigma did, but there's a sound a lot like a door locking.   What are you doing?! Open this door!  I have to do this.You didn't think D-Team was actually going to leave Q-Team to die, did you?   You would've tried to hold me back if I'd said I'd go, right? Anyway, there's no time. You both need to get as far away as you can.  That's not it. It's just in case. I won't die. I will save everyone in Q-Team. So...The goal is actually to reach the stop button in time, remember.     Might be time to start looking for cover.  Diana futilely bangs on the door one last time.  Oops, too late.  Long fade to black. There's actually a lock here, but we already met the conditions for it so we just blow right through it. Kind of like that bomb. Music: CQD: BAD END  Diana opens her eyes some time later.  Her vision is still a bit hazy. Is that...Sigma?  Oh, Sigma... No... Sigma falls. Sigma! Diana stumbles over as Phi slowly stands.     My God...   Quick fade to black as we're suddenly carrying Sigma. I'll go check the other room.   It's okay! The showers stopped, and the door's gone! We're getting out of here! Come on!Music: Trepidation 2nd Mix  No... Please, no...I think this is the first time we've seen the elevator room. Oh, and Q-Team really is here, somehow.  Phi runs over.  Well, we killed Eric again. Poor guy doesn't survive very many of these timelines, does he?  Zero is determined to get his six bodies one way or the other I guess.  Diana helps Sigma rest against the low wall here.   This child...  I think we broke Diana again.  Someone lets out a moan.      Where are the others...? Phi just closes her eyes and shakes her head. I see... They're all dead... I'll be joining them soon... Zero told us...   You deserve something nice in return... *squelch*  So, I thought we might be in the same timeline as when Q-Team was in the Biolab. Though the timing still doesn't really line up, it does seem like we're in the timeline where Mira kept that Radical-6 vial for herself....  Music: Aftermath (Decontamination Room)   Other than a couple of glaring omissions, we seem to be headed for the future in which VLR takes place. Sigma's missing his arms and an eye, and Radical-6 is about to be released.  You don't see the crazy eyes on D-Team very often, but here you go.  Time for magic flashbacks for Diana...  This would be confusing and/or intriguing if we hadn't already played the Biolab. By the way, seeing the "Don't Inject" scene in the Biolab is the requirement for getting through the lock I mentioned earlier.   Mankind... Six billion people...will die.  Do you...like it...? My present...to...you... Thanks, snail.  Phi runs off...somewhere.   Not sure what's happening but there are a lot of loud crashing noises. Music: Blue Bird Lamentation 2nd Mix  I guess there's no going back in?  No... Heh... Who knew this would happen...    That future being the one in VLR. Like I said before, with two glaring omissions. Akane and Junpei are in VLR, but were killed in the execution vote in this timeline. There's a bit of a plot hole here, I think. At the end of VLR, old Sigma said he didn't know what happened in Dcom. Maybe the trauma ended up affecting his memories later, but I would think he'd have more details than what he left behind for his younger self: 'Akane, in the VLR ending in April 2029' posted:That the test facility is full of traps. That's about all we knew about the events of this game headed in. Well, there was also a recording...    Sigma makes one last-ditch effort to save the world. If they never leave the facility, Radical-6 won't be released.  We need to get you to a hospital as soon as possible or--  I'm the only one who should stay!There's another minor plot hole with how exactly Radical-6 is released. One of the reveals in VLR is that all the participants were infected with Radical-6, which is why they didn't notice that they were on the moon and gravity was so much less. But Phi already had been infected here, four months before she was frozen and shipped off to the moon. She would have recovered by the time she was frozen for the events in VLR. Unless maybe recovery doesn't offer immunity to re-infection later? But in VLR the cure for Radical-6, Axelavir, is said to be made from the antibodies of Radical-6 survivors who had gained immunity afterwards.   A rescue team will eventually show up if Diana and I get to the surface... And you know they'll come down and get you too...         Fade to white as something falls.   Clever woman used the stun gun from Manufacturing. Now six billion people will die.   Diana, you... You know what you're doing...right? Yes, I do...    An alarm sounds as the elevator prepares to rise.   And up it goes. Fade to black, and a clang as the elevator reaches the top. Music: Glacial Solitude   Some static, then a voice through the walkie talkies here. [Control:] Hey, can you hear me?! What's going on?!     [Control:] Oh, thank God! You really had me worried there. What happened?  Six of us are...dead.[Control:] What?  Counting myself, there are only three left.[Control:] How... Why are...?  [Control:] Wh-What?! I... I guess you could say I killed them.Diana killed C-Team by going against the plan with the Execution vote. She killed Q-Team by...not arguing hard enough against Phi's plan? Or not stopping the bomb herself?   No...no, that's not quite right. Not just them. Not just these six... All of them... All six billion... Soon I will have killed six billion people... Diana drops the walkie talkie. [Control:] Are you there?! Respond! This conversation actually lines up very well with a recording of it that is found in one of the VLR endings.   We look away as Diana sits down.     Let's put our hope in the next Sigma... The me who'll return here from the future...  Slow pan up to our eventual destination. Music: Interminable Dilemma (Credits)  It's been awhile since we've seen the credits.  Welcome to D-END:1. Commonly referred to as the Moon End, though I believe that symbol is actually a generic biohazard one, representing the Radical-6 outbreak.  The last ending we unlocked was over 40 updates ago. My how the time flies. Here's hoping it's not another 40 updates to the next one!  Just showing that we are indeed in the timeline with the Biolab, specifically the "Don't Inject" ending. This flowchart is actually getting quite filled in, but we're still awhile off before I can show the whole thing.  Another name for the ending we just watched - Circle of Fate.  No new unlocks, but we can of course replay the decision we just did. Select the story fragment. DKII fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 19, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 07:25
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To clarify why Old Sigma in VLR didn't have any idea what happened at DCOM, it's because of the how the jumping worked for his body. Sigma's consciousness goes like this: 22 year old Sigma jumped (or more like got forcibly SHIFTed) to the future. He goes through VLR, and then at the end SHIFTs back to after the virus has been released. He then lives life normally until he goes to the moon and sets up VLR. Once he finishes the set-up for the game to run automatically via Zero III and Akane, he then jumps back to his 22 year old body (this is the moment where the normal 22 year old Sigma gets forced into the future) and then goes through DCOM. At the end of it, Radical-6 is released; afterwards, his VLR self jumps into his body, and presumably his mind goes back to the future. Or to put it another way, if you label each of Sigma's consciousness, let's say that A is his 22-year old mind. B is his mind after going through VLR. C is his normal 67-year old self after living through the pandemic. D is his 67-year old self, after DCOM. The consciousness inhabiting his body in the VLR timeline goes like this: A > C > events of ZTD > radical-6 gets released > B > 45 years pass, Sigma sets up VLR > D
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Jul 4, 2020 07:44
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That still doesn't quite explain the sheer lack of information. In the timeline we saw in VLR, we know that enough time passed between ZTD and Young!Sigma coming back that they had managed to fit the first set of mechanical arms to him. Unless Sigma's body had been in a coma until that moment (possible, admittedly...) there should have been enough time for Sigma to draft more than three sentences about what happened. Similarly, Diana was there alongside Sigma and Phi in DCOM and actively worked with Sigma and Akane on the moon for three years before dying of a Moon-Heart Attack or whatever. I can buy her never quite mentioning her role in things to Sigma (not mentioning your actions that directly led to billions of deaths when the only other witnesses to those actions have become a popsicle or an amnesiac is a sound move), but that would never fly with Akane. On the other hand, SHIFT, and the morphogenetic field in general, is all about inspiration and danger, right? It's possible that maybe it was decided that giving Sigma and Phi as little information as possible would give them a better chance of success in this regard. Ultimately, this is just the timeline where that strategy didn't work out. The universe God abandoned....
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Jul 4, 2020 08:10
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Well we still don't have all the details; for instance, we don't know how Akane and Junpei survived in the VLR timeline when they should be dead.
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Jul 4, 2020 08:34
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As someone who's played the game, I haven't been voting because I wanted to let the blind readers vote. But if I had been, I would've voted the same way I played the game blind: always see every 'unlock'. That means I'd vote to see every execution vote before moving on from that; vote to see every decon room before moving on; and always clear access to a scene's tree (assuming it's completeable). I guess viewers aren't as obsessive about that as I am!
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Jul 4, 2020 08:42
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Here goes my theory about tricking whatever system determines death of participants to set things for VLR. The explanation better not be "we tricked the collars, so we don't die, and took something, so we fall into coma and were counted as dead, but survived at the cost of our memory." On the other hand, my theory that Sigma used robo-kid remnants to jumpstart his own robotics research is still possible.
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Jul 4, 2020 09:04
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Yeah, we're missing the piece of the puzzle that is "Akane and Junpei also somehow survive in the timeline they must be executed in" So I want to run by another idea and this one is that... So the games in the Zero Escape series are always training of some kind, that's kinda what I don't want this to be, because... training implies you're being trained for something, and I'm hoping, whatever it is, concludes with this game. I don't want to hit the end of this one to get "There is a biggerer threat" So I'd say calmly at this point that C-Team's "Training" is SHIFT, considering we had a long string of forced timelines of the heroes changing timelines to others to grab passwords (in a failed attempt) indicates to me at least that there's something to be gained. The obvious answer for "How do Junpei and Akane survive into this timeline" is they SHIFTed here. Which would require living bodies. Now if we hadn't seen Tenmyoji's aged body and blood in VLR I would say that this would be the Q-Team 'Training' because Q-Team is assuredly about Robot Boy who's definitely not Q, especially when Diana looks right at him and doesn't recognize him in this timeline. But I don't think you can SHIFT to a robot. So this might be training for Robot Boy specifically. That leaves D-Team, now, let's take a look at D-Teams map.  "Transporter Room"  What IS this? These are weird pod things what do they transport... how do they transport. If they're teleporters, you presumably could use one to teleport from say... one timeline to another. So an Akane and Junpei could use it to come to the VLR timeline. But that also raises questions like "How would Junpei not know he'd found Akane again." Tenmyouji in VLR says he never saw Akane after 999. I figured it was just the memory wiping drugs here to explain it, but- Ahhhh my head hurts. Also I probably wouldn't even be thinking of this, if this wasn't an LP and I had a chance to stop and think and have images laid clearly out for me. EDIT: Got it, just because it can transport you, doesn't mean it will send you through with complete memories. There are two pods, well... from this screen anyway. So two pods, Akane and Junpei come through, but they don't have their memories, presumably, they don't emerge at D-Com, since 1. It'd just leave them with the same problem, being stuck while being alive, and 2. they'd just have memories of being together. Onmi fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 09:33
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Onmi posted:If they're teleporters, you presumably could use one to teleport from say... one timeline to another. If the answer ends up being "you can physically jump from one timeline to another", it would be very underwhelming. Unless somebody jumps into timeline where he already exist and we'll have Junpei surrounded by dozen Akane. Then it would be hilarious.
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Jul 4, 2020 09:53
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I've had a nagging suspicion in my mind for a while that Junpei and Akane in this game are not actually the same Junpei and Akane we see in the first two games, at least not in the physical sense, but I'm having a difficult time reconciling how that can be short of cloning. Is cloning already a thing in 2029? I can't remember.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:18
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MiiNiPaa posted:If the answer ends up being "you can physically jump from one timeline to another", it would be very underwhelming. Unless somebody jumps into timeline where he already exist and we'll have Junpei surrounded by dozen Akane. Then it would be hilarious. Somehow, I doubt this game goes for that kind of levity. I could also see the machine transporting clone bodies with no minds that they could then Jump in too. presumably with some retrograde on their memories. Junpei might remember being in D-Com, but not meeting Akane there. Super Jay Mann posted:I've had a nagging suspicion in my mind for a while that Junpei and Akane in this game are not actually the same Junpei and Akane we see in the first two games, at least not in the physical sense, but I'm having a difficult time reconciling how that can be short of cloning. Is cloning already a thing in 2029? I can't remember. That could work, but yeah is cloning a... thing?
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Jul 4, 2020 10:37
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We know that Dio is a fourth-generation clone. Assuming that clone generations are twenty years long, same as regular humans, that means cloning technology is already reasonably developed. If there is a mere ten years between generations, that would still leave the possibility that these hypothetical Junpei/Akane clones were among the first batch. The extra ending of VLR also introduces the possibility that clones can recieve morphogenetic information, including the consciousness, from the 'original' (though how canon anything from that ending is can be open to debate). In short, having Akane and Tenmyouji be clones in VLR is possible.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:51
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Onmi posted:That could work, but yeah is cloning a... thing? In VLR Alice mentioned that Free the Soul kidnapped her father: a cloning researcher. IIRC there was a suspicion about them already using cloning to copy useful members of the group. Onmi posted:I could also see the machine transporting clone bodies with no minds that they could then Jump in too. presumably with some retrograde on their memories. Junpei might remember being in D-Com, but not meeting Akane there. Maybe machine transport only information, and not physical objects, allowing to operate the same machine in different timelines over morphogenic field Wi-Fi? If those two big man-sized capsules are cloning pods, you could send a "create clones of Akane and Junpei in this timeline" command, so there would be something to SHIFT to. As for memory, I think, VLR Akane and Junpei are the ones from C-team execution. Notice that during executions corresponding teams are awake. It is probably to facilitate SHIFTing away by putting them in certaing death situation. If they SHIFTed from execution, then they wouldn't know much about what happened. MiiNiPaa fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 11:11
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MiiNiPaa posted:In VLR Alice mentioned that Free the Soul kidnapped her father: a cloning researcher. IIRC there was a suspicion about them already using cloning to copy useful members of the group. Weren't the Myrmidons all clones or something?
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Jul 4, 2020 16:16
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I want to say cloning was definitely a thing because otherwise there wouldn't have been a K, but I'm forgetting if he was cloned or just the result of combining 2 sets of DNA.
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Jul 4, 2020 16:52
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Gemini Laser posted:I want to say cloning was definitely a thing because otherwise there wouldn't have been a K, but I'm forgetting if he was cloned or just the result of combining 2 sets of DNA. K is a full clone of Sigma so I'm pretty sure it was only Sigma's DNA.
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Jul 4, 2020 18:27
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Mira causing VLR is one of those things that I hate when sequels do: tie a major event to some character who didn't even need to be there. I mean, sure, it was still basically set up by Zero, but I don't really like how Mira caused VLR and is also the instigator of the snail chain of events as well. Anyway, on a less gripey note, how the hell did Sigma get blown up so hard that both his arms got ripped off and still remain conscious? 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 19:04
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Anyway, on a less gripey note, how the hell did Sigma get blown up so hard that both his arms got ripped off and still remain conscious? Knowing Sigma? Sheer willpower. In another reality, he'd be born Bruce Wayne. Phi would be his Robin.
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Jul 4, 2020 19:50
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Imagine knowing for 45 years that you're going to lose your arms and your eye in some fashion but you never experienced how. And then it happens and you're like "oh, so that's what the agonizing pain of having two of your limbs blown off feels like, good to know  "
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Jul 4, 2020 20:00
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Guess that bomb was too much to handle. Clearly more than meets the eye going on there. ... I'll see myself out.
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Jul 4, 2020 20:20
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W.T. Fits posted:Guess that bomb was too much to handle. Clearly more than meets the eye going on there. 
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Jul 4, 2020 21:12
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All this speculation about the transporter room means that everyone should vote for it in the next round of voting. After seeing what happens when we run away first, though.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:19
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 Should have this up tonight. In the meantime, I added a video link for the previous update. I wanted one video for each team and this one was a good one for D-Team.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:33
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W.T. Fits posted:Guess that bomb was too much to handle. Clearly more than meets the eye going on there. In Soviet Russia, bomb disarms you.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:49
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BlazeEmblem posted:All this speculation about the transporter room means that everyone should vote for it in the next round of voting. After seeing what happens when we run away first, though. Nope, that long list of Decon/Execution replays has been there long enough. I'm voting for the top Replay option until they're all gone.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:56
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Omobono posted:In another reality, he'd be born Bruce Wayne. Phi would be his Robin. I'd pay to see that.
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Jul 4, 2020 23:13
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Part 56: Don't Run Running gets us six billion dead and the events of VLR. What does not running get us?  Back to "The Bomb"...  Still one of my favorite lines so I just wanted to stop and admire it again.   Music: Bereavement   Apparently "don't run" means "zap Sigma with the stun gun so he can't interfere"?  Diana...you... Phi, I have a request. Take Sigma to the surface. I can't--      Give Diana a non-lethal weapon and she gets a little trigger-happy. Music: Strain 2nd Mix   I have to hurry!Diana's voice is all muffled from being in the suit.   How much time is left?   No...   Well, at least Radical-6 wasn't released?  And another completed fragment...  Back to Team Select. Down to ten options - five new fragments, and five replays. Select the story fragment.
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Jul 5, 2020 01:00
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You know what after all this I think D team deserves to be the one executing these assholes.
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Jul 5, 2020 01:03
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After attempting to run resulted in a long scene, releasing Radical-6, and almost re-creating the 'original' timeline, watching "Diana is too slow, bomb kills everyone" seems kind of anemic and meh, to be honest. Still voting for Decon: C Team so we can see the outcome of one of those.
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Jul 5, 2020 01:24
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Two more fragments left, so I just went C-Team to get them out of the way so we can finish strong on D-Team (who is, frankly, the best team. Okay, more like best duo, Diana is just here for the ride.)
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Jul 5, 2020 01:51
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MagusofStars posted:After attempting to run resulted in a long scene, releasing Radical-6, and almost re-creating the 'original' timeline, watching "Diana is too slow, bomb kills everyone" seems kind of anemic and meh, to be honest. Yeah, Sigma was also too slow but was able to get his arms up to protect himself or something? The game overs can't all be winners, I guess.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:31
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There also isn't a 'hey, at least Sigma and Phi survived!' scenario, when really that's all what we want from this game.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:36
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Or maybe Sigma is even slower that he didn't manage to be in the lethal radius of the bomb yet 
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Jul 5, 2020 02:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:There also isn't a 'hey, at least Sigma and Phi survived!' scenario, when really that's all what we want from this game. They did survive because they're in the next room. We just don't see what happens because Diana died and she's the D-team main character.
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Jul 5, 2020 03:46
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whitehelm posted:They did survive because they're in the next room. We just don't see what happens because Diana died and she's the D-team main character. I kinda doubt that. The bomb going off sent Phi and Diana flying when they were a hallway length away and behind a closed door. With them both unconscious and right outside the shower room? They're definitely dead.
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Jul 5, 2020 09:13
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Part 57: Press the Button (2) Time to hit up a replay. I typed this up when we first did this fragment, expecting to go right back to it. Instead it's 22 updates later.  Mmm, button.  It's surprisingly difficult to force myself to click on the button, knowing the consequences.  Music: CQD: BAD END        But what you did is--    Someone took my hand and...  I'm starting to think some of these lines that look like they forgot to animate the lips are really just internal thoughts that don't have properly italicized subtitles. But I'll keep upping the count regardless. Missing Lip Animations: 41 Maybe it's stress, or you've always had that urge buried deep down inside... Come on, it's just a part of being human. Life experiences. Carlos...isn't wrong, here. We did force his hand. Is this scene of Carlos breaking the fourth wall, and he's sensing our inputs to these decisions? Remember, when we replayed C-Team's Execution fragment, to force a vote for Q-Team, Carlos was staring at his hands in stunned shock, like he couldn't believe what they'd done.   You made a wise decision. You sacrificed the lives of others in order to continue your own survival. Missing Lip Animations: 42  It truly is a natural human reaction. You simply made an emergency evacuation. The action is legally justifiable. There is no blame to be placed on you for your decision. Now, I'm sure you would like to get out of here immediately, but before that... I apologize, but you must all sleep again.  Time for good kids to be in bed or something. You have done exactly as I commanded. The memory loss drug will not be injected into the three of you. It would be...inconvenient if you forgot you caused the deaths of others... Pleasant dreams... Falling.  Fade to static.  Fragment complete...  That's strange, we don't get to see the outcome either way? Let's see if we unlocked anything new.  Ohhhhh, we're being railroaded again.  Not much to this fragment. Well, might as well jump in. Music: Portentousness 2nd Mix    This is... The Decontamination Room.    Missing Lip Animations: 43  I feel like I've been trapped in this room before.   This button... Yeah, something isn't right... Maybe we've forgotten about this place? The drugs in the bracelets?   Suddenly, we hear the sound of water rushing. Or some other liquid....  The heartbeat returns here, but for a different reason.  Screams.  More screams from Q-Team.    Music: Glacial Solitude  Back in the Lounge in Ward C.    Chimes. Time for computer lady.       [Computer Lady:] That is all. SELF is for Q. I'll let it speak for itself. RIP is for Mira, the Heart Ripper. LAKE is for Eric, who threw his dead brother's body into a lake. BIRD is for Diana and her bluebird pendant. TWIN is for Phi? Is she a twin? And OLD is for Sigma, because, well, he's old.  C-Team just woke up again, but they remember what happened this time.  We just saw this, but sure, thanks for reminding us.   Clear picture of the "scoreboard".  We put these passwords in, we can reach the surface.  A frustrated, anguished noise from Carlos, here.   I've been busting my rear end for the past ten years... I wanted to save as many lives as I could. I worked hard to do that...No sign of Radical-6 in this timeline. Maybe you prevented the outbreak that kills six billion? That seems like a lot of lives saved.  Gesundheit.  Or Spinochordodes tellinii. Have you heard of either of these, Carlos?   I feel a little dirty now. I think Akane is calling us parasites.   Spinochordodes tellinii.Thanks for making me type that twice, Akane.  Correct.  Rats with toxoplasmosis no longer fear their predator, the cat,   For humans infected with Toxoplasma gondii, Come to think of it, Radical-6 also caused personality changes. Maybe we're not so safe, after all.  You become a risk taker, your reactions slow, or you become extremely sensitive... Seems more likely than someone reaching through from another dimension and moving his hand for him, right? I don't know...   Music: Mischievousness (Consternation Remix) Enough navel-gazing, let's get out of here.    No problems here. All right, then let's put in the passwords. These passwords are different from the ones we've seen in other fragments.     Hey, it opened! It opened! The door will close right away!   Oh, hey other Carlos.  Carlos...? I... Music: Ustulate Pathos     Wonder where this Carlos came from? Or where he's going to?  What nonsense are you babbling about? Come on, hurry up!Apparently Akane and Junpei don't have their post-SHIFTer memories here.  Missing Lip Animations: 44  Carlos! Carlooos!  Just hang on!   A crashing sound. Did he just run into the wall?  Well, we finished our single-scene fragment.  It shows up on the regular fragment select screen if we ever want to see it again.  Some new information, but no new unlocks. Still, all our other options are available again. Five new fragments, and four more replays.. Select the story fragment.
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Jul 6, 2020 00:20
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What the...? Yeah, I got nothing.
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Jul 6, 2020 00:26
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