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MiiNiPaa posted:My theory is that Old Man is another Delta's copy sent back in time through transporter. Delta grows up, sends his copy through transporter to ensure that he is born and maybe to complete a few other goals. That means that there is Phi age Delta living outside of D-Com Wait a minute here. The Transporter is found by the Germans in the early 1900s, they research it, it's taken by the Americans, they research it until it somehow ends up in the hands of Free the Soul... Delta is the Old Man, meaning it's likely that there is an Old Woman/ Phi. Young Phi mentions being raised by a pair of old researchers, one of whom was a woman who gave Phi the pendant she carries to this day... Assuming I'm right about all this, the Sigma/Diana family tree has acquired a new dimension of meaning to the word 'tangled'.
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Jul 18, 2020 09:22
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Diana is also still married (at least, she never mentions getting a divorce). Boy, holidays at the Klim family home must be awkward even without considering the robot kid that Sigma's gonna create in the future.
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Jul 18, 2020 09:25
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OddHaberdasher posted:Delta is the Old Man, meaning it's likely that there is an Old Woman/ Phi. I am not sure. I think that O.G. Delta is the same age as our Phi, just raised by different family and not directly acting in this game. Later he copies himself back in time for reasons (maybe to found Free The Soul?).
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Jul 18, 2020 10:01
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ApplesandOranges posted:Clearly, Phi has ice-9. And if you turn '9' upside down, you get '6', which is pretty radical. And that's how you get radical-6. 
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Jul 18, 2020 10:53
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A possibility may be that the show is being run by a young Delta and his older self is there as Q. Sigma did the reverse after all. Of course with SHIFT in play* it may be a pointless distinction as the two could swap consciousness as needed. *No way Delta and Zero aren't SHIFTers.
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Jul 18, 2020 10:57
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I did not know about the "He is not here" error for the Akane chainsaw thing. Then again, I never tried since Carlos and Akane are the only options on the flowchart.
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Jul 18, 2020 11:00
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Omobono posted:Quote is not edit. No. No, it was not. Shame on you. 
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Jul 18, 2020 13:09
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ApplesandOranges posted:Diana is also still married (at least, she never mentions getting a divorce). Clone kid, robot nanny.
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Jul 18, 2020 13:11
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Omobono posted:That's pretty much a confirmation of both old man Q and Q=Delta theories, isn't it? And Q=0 is not strictly confirmed but at the moment is the only thing that makes sense. You also have a future clone/son who sort of alternates between the two. Gotta have that balance, I suppose. ...Oh, that makes the scene on the K path much more dark. Rather than having to save one of two relative strangers, he had to choose between saving his daughter or his son. Even if he didn't know at the time and the outcome wouldn't have changed since Sigma couldn't get through K's suit.
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Jul 18, 2020 13:38
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Well that confirms the 10th player theory right there. And that Delta is indeed involved in the game. Now the question is what about the age discrepancy there?
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Jul 18, 2020 13:52
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SimplyUnknown1 posted:You also have a future clone/son who sort of alternates between the two. Gotta have that balance, I suppose. Wait, what K path are you talking about? K is basically a walking Schrödinger's Cat: K is both Kyle and Akane simultaneously until Sigma collapses the "K" waveform by choosing the first Chromatic Door. It's only at that point that K becomes either Kyle or Akane based on Sigma's action. I don't recall a scene where Sigma has to choose between Phi and the "Kyle" version of K. Is my memory going bad in my old age or am I misunderstanding what you're saying? (Probably my memory.)
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Jul 18, 2020 13:53
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...! posted:Wait, what K path are you talking about? K is basically a walking Schrödinger's Cat: K is both Kyle and Akane simultaneously until Sigma collapses the "K" waveform by choosing the first Chromatic Door. It's only at that point that K becomes either Kyle or Akane based on Sigma's action. K is only Akane if Sigma goes through the first set of doors with Alice. In K's Ending route, Kyle breaks Dio's bracelet intentionally to see whether Young Sigma will choose to save him or Phi from the injection. This is the same ending in which Sigma removes Kyle's helmet and sees his face.
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Jul 18, 2020 13:58
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Delta must be like "See Dad, I can do a death game too!" Although despite the threat of death in the AB game, it wasn't really a "death" game.
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Jul 18, 2020 14:19
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Onmi posted:Delta must be like "See Dad, I can do a death game too!" Although despite the threat of death in the AB game, it wasn't really a "death" game. Tell that to all who died horribly in every timeline which wasn't leading to the Phi endidng. Come to think of it, didn't we already have a happy ending where everyone lives in this game? It only make sense that in every other timeline (almost) everyone dies horribly.
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Jul 18, 2020 14:58
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So...Q and Delta are all but confirmed to be the same person, but only Bender seems to know that. And he's clearly got some relation to Zero. Delta was in the cells at the beginning when Zero walked in though, right?
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Jul 18, 2020 16:12
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Part 71: Reality Finally, we're headed to the Quantum Computer Dome.   Is that Zero in there? In person? And two decisions?  Sure, let's see what's going on here.  Music: Anxiousness 2nd Mix  Just the one team member?  Huh...? He's looking around in confusion.  Have we seen a timeline where they're both gone?   Hmm, the computer lady is telling us the score right at the beginning.    Wow, what happened? That's everyone but...Mira...  Wait a minute...  N-No...Wait, does that say "X-Door Opened" there?     [Computer Lady:] Thank you for participating.  Guess Q was left behind...      Here comes some morphogenetic plot dump!    So C-Team was executed. That narrows down our location a fair bit.    And D-Team was stabbed...in the Healing Room fragment, after not pressing the button. By a cloaked figure who escaped through the X-Door....Mira?!    There's Mira stabbing Eric. This one's the Biolab fragment, after injecting ourselves with Radical-6...     Of course she stabbed the kid, too, but we seem to be fine now?   Point of order - how does he know it was C-Team and D-Team? I guess it's not like it could be anybody else, but still...  Why are you talking to yourself?  Oh, yeah, that's a good point, too. I remember being stabbed by a scalpel...     Everything will be explained there. So, as you might've guessed, this fragment requires quite a few things to happen to unlock it. As best as I can tell, the following scenes are required to be viewed first before this fragment becomes available:
Yes, that's both Biolab endings, and both "correct" decisions from the D-Team fragments that followed from them. And of course C-Team being executed kicks off this whole branch. So basically, see almost everything on this timeline and we'll be allowed into the Quantum Computer Dome. There's a little quirk where if the last of these five scenes that you see, was either in the Biolab or Manufacturing, you have to start any other fragment before this one will unlock. Just to throw you off, I guess. Music: Quantum Computer Dome (Q)  The only time we've seen this room was during the initial tour of Ward Q and when Q-Team escaped after pressing the button in the Decontamination Room. Gab was chained up here...  Is Zero here in person? We haven't seen Zero in person since the coin flip.    Great, another character who has no lip motion to show.  You are welcome to kill me now if you wish.    Very well. Holy poo poo, there's more of them.  ...A lot more.  Wh-What is this... My spare...? They were prepared in order to support me and my plan. They function mainly as physical labor, plus other additional deeds. For some reason some blocks pop out of the wall.  Oh, monitors I guess. One of them is dragging Carlos around?  No...Guess the physical labor is putting sleeping people into the pods, and then taking them out and locking them in puzzle rooms?  Precisely. You--  The consciousness that is you does not reside in that body. Your thought center is there-- Within the quantum computer. You think, sense, and make decisions in there. You then output the results into commands that are transmitted to your body. So, lots of people were thinking old helmet-head might be a robot. How many figured out he was the quantum computer itself? The explanation here is a lot like a scene from 999, where Lotus brings up a philosophical discussion. Basically, what if our bodies are like computer monitors, while our consciousness actually resides elsewhere like the computer hardware itself?  Indeed.  Only just now...? Zero nods.     He struggled with an incurable disease and lost his life at the age of 10.  The same name as you.So, we have it. The kid's name is Sean.        Have you considered humans may be the same?         Um, can I ask you something?     The world of that boy, Sean... What? What do you mean... There will be no more.Right, so there are a lot of hints on this one, but some of them are obscured by the other mysteries we've since uncovered. Here's what I spotted, what else did you find?
Music: Bereavement      The game's already over... You are an exception...   Button appears out of nowhere from inside the pillar... Your choices should be obvious: Press it, or refuse to do so.  That computer there retains all of the data that makes you uniquely you. Memory, personality, how you think and sense... All of the algorithms that determine your actions are stored inside... If you choose to press the button, all of the data will be duplicated and transferred to a virtual space.  There is no way you'll realize it is false.This story reminds me of another philosophical argument. If we have the capability to simulate a reality that is indistinguishable from our own, isn't it likely that we are ourselves living in such a simulated reality? What are the odds that we are in the true reality versus an infinite number of possible simulated ones?  However...   The data is exactly the same. It will be duplicated without any discrepancies. One of you will be in the virtual space, while the other remains in reality.    Your existence will be erased and you will receive a complete death. Music: CQD Ward BGM 3       Is that button just floating in the air?     No heartbeats before this decision, either. Music: Moral Dilemma (Annihilation 3rd Mix)  Another button, huh? Should we do it? Is Zero telling us the truth? Press the button?
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Jul 18, 2020 16:40
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Dancing around the fact that this kid is named Sean is one of the most difficult parts of discussing this game.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:47
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EDIT: Nevermind, not quite the same thing There's something just so anti-climactic about his name being Sean, though Rabbi Raccoon fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 17:03
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Dancing around the fact that this kid is named Sean is one of the most difficult parts of discussing this game. I'm assuming he's the kid that dies in the story that Zero keeps telling and that Mira is the cause of it with a murder she committed?
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Jul 18, 2020 17:15
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do u believe in marigolds posted:I'm assuming he's the kid that dies in the story that Zero keeps telling and that Mira is the cause of it with a murder she committed? fuckin snail
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Jul 18, 2020 17:35
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do u believe in marigolds posted:I'm assuming he's the kid that dies in the story that Zero keeps telling and that Mira is the cause of it with a murder she committed? Also, we should headbutt Zero off the drat platform; it looks high enough to cause injury. But since that’s apparently not a choice, I guess it makes sense to press the button, since robot-boy deserves more than Zero just wiping his entire personality again.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:36
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Look we pushed one huge obvious button we can push another. I mean yeah, the last one blew everyone up in a cloud of nuclear fallout(?) but this time will be fine I swear Also it's interesting how this is set up as literally the exact same consciousness splitting mechanism as Sigma and Luna using the Transporter, though that didn't have the whole 'delete your entire existence' caveat attached. There's definitely something connecting the two that's going to play into how this whole story resolves but I haven't the faintest idea what it could be yet. There's also the possibility that the whole decision game is (fully or partially) taking place in a virtual space given what Zero says about it recreating reality exactly, but I'm not willing to entertain that line of thinking further without more evidence.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:39
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I didn't realize it until now, but though the framing is different I think "three outcomes, but only two choices" and the conflict in terminology that arises is a better way of summarizing the Sleeping Beauty problem. E: also, my vote tied things up. There's a certain tingly feeling that comes from that, given our ties so far.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:52
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Super Jay Mann posted:Also it's interesting how this is set up as literally the exact same consciousness splitting mechanism as Sigma and Luna using the Transporter, though that didn't have the whole 'delete your entire existence' caveat attached. No, it's pretty much the same. - Destroy the transporter. Regardless of whether Diana and Sigma have kids or not, they all die. - Keep the transporter. Remain behind and have kids, who are then timeline warped by the pods. - Keep the transporter. Teleport to a new timeline with Carlos, Sean, and Crazy Eyes.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:56
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DKII posted:So, lots of people were thinking old helmet-head might be a robot. How many figured out he was the quantum computer itself? Well, I was and still think that Sean is a GAULEM, which comes with external control of a body. Also room with quantum computer in VLR was called Q. I say, don't press. In the memory of Phi, who was against careless pushing of unknown buttons.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:59
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MiiNiPaa posted:I say, don't press. In the memory of Phi, who was against careless pushing of unknown buttons. And see how that worked for her?
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Jul 18, 2020 18:02
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I mean, to be fair, in this timeline Phi was literally murdered by a serial killer. I just realized how hilarious it is to get caught in a game filled with deathtraps with 9 other people only to get murdered by a serial killer
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Jul 18, 2020 18:10
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curiousCat posted:fuckin snail There's a certain amount of stuff I've spoiled myself on related to this game so I usually don't try to insert this kind of high brow (self deprecating) thinking in case I out something that hasn't been made out.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:13
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I just realized how hilarious it is to get caught in a game filled with deathtraps with 9 other people only to get murdered by a serial killer
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Jul 18, 2020 18:21
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maswastaken posted:Also kind of embarassing if you were in one of the other two because it's Clover. I donno, I think it's more embarassing to get betrayed by Alice twice.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:22
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ApplesandOranges posted:I donno, I think it's more embarassing to get betrayed by Alice twice. I will never forgive Alice for that second betrayal. 
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Jul 18, 2020 18:27
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maswastaken posted:Also kind of embarassing if you were in one of the other two because it's Clover. Clover is a POTENTIAL serial killer. Unless I'm forgetting something
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Jul 18, 2020 18:27
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In previous games we have Ace and Dio as designated murderers. Also: as we now know robokid name, we should enter Sean everywhere possible to see what happens.
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Jul 18, 2020 18:37
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So here's something a little meta about the Quantum Computer Dome; it was probably meant to be an Escape Room at some point in development before that got scrapped for whatever reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNL4MWgqJF4 There's an unused track which is probably meant for it, QCD is the only ward-specific room which isn't an escape room, and Q Team even has 2 less escape rooms to clear than the other two teams.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:15
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Mira actively participated in a grand total of 2 escape rooms, the least out of anyone in this game. Granted, it's still more than K/Dio/Quark, but still...
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Jul 18, 2020 19:23
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Polderjoch posted:So here's something a little meta about the Quantum Computer Dome; it was probably meant to be an Escape Room at some point in development before that got scrapped for whatever reason. Kind of agree, yeah. Sounds like it would fit well with VLR's Room Q, which was also a weird white featureless room with wall panels, so it would do well in the QCD.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:27
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1234567890num posted:Mira actively participated in a grand total of 2 escape rooms, the least out of anyone in this game. Both 999 and ZTD have a few unused stuff that hints at parts of the games being rewritten drastically fairly late in development; at least after music was made and some plot beats were already written out, but I'll save that for when the LP is over, I guess. Phi in this game also only had 3 Escape Rooms she was present in, right? Manufacturing, Healing, and Trash Disposal.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:30
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Super Jay Mann posted:Look we pushed one huge obvious button we can push another. I mean yeah, the last one blew everyone up in a cloud of nuclear fallout(?) but this time will be fine I swear To be fair, that one said 'Do not press this button' on it. Also, ward layout and watch shenanigans aside, I don't think that Zero has ever lied to us about the functionality of any of the equipment in the facility.
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Jul 18, 2020 19:57
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Polderjoch posted:Both 999 and ZTD have a few unused stuff that hints at parts of the games being rewritten drastically fairly late in development; at least after music was made and some plot beats were already written out, but I'll save that for when the LP is over, I guess. Each member of one team does that since they're not present for at least one room. Junpei misses out on the Pantry, Phi isn't present for Transporter and Locker, and Mira on the Pod Room. Q-Ward has less rooms though, so Junpei does four, Phi does three, and Mira only does two - Biolab and the Study. In ZTD Phi technically has six Escapes she can be a part of, since she's with you for the initial three doors, and then you can pair up with her after Magenta or Yellow, and then she has another Escape further on in her own route. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 20:16
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I just noticed that the quantum computer dome is initialised the same as the team names, makes sense it comes at the end.
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Jul 18, 2020 20:36
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