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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Coming out of my extended retirement (1 whole hour) for this game.

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I'm callin my peeps

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I have one goal in every game, and that is to launch merk. This game will be no different ##vote merk

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Tom Tucker posted:

Everyone please weigh in about my post. How does it make you feel?

It made me chuckle.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

yuming posted:

I wanna vote merk but he’s not in this game, darn.

Sorry Somb :sparkles:

Don't let that stop you

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I saw Hamilton last year on my birthday and it was awesome, best birthday

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Somberbrero posted:

it's nice to play Mafia sometimes

uhh... is launch all liars still a thing?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Nobody is posting! How am I supposed to solve the game like this?

##vote yuming for having the fewest posts

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Votefinder should be fixed now but it lost all the votes for the last ~12 hours

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Unlike apparently everyone else weekdays are worse for me than weekends.

The ham and Grandi back and forth about what is or isn't a joke feels like DumbD1Stuff.txt

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

This "Nep-nep made one serious post so she's scum" bandwagon kinda skeeves me out.

Especially stuff like this:

sandnavyguy posted:

Well, I guess joke phase is over. In that case I'll ##vote Nep, mostly because of their wordy posts and the fact I can't really argue with the position of those already voting them.

Nep-nep has made one game related post, not a bunch of "wordy posts"

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Oh crap, I lost track of time.

Like I posted earlier, I think the wagon on nep-nep is the sketchiest thing to happen so far

##vote siv while I catch up, I'll switch to whoever is leading if I have to before the deadline

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

spacing in vienna posted:

Did you mean me and typo and if not who is josev

hi

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

hambeet posted:

6 mins, what's the case on SIV again?

Basically the bandwagon on Nep was kinda sketchy and siv was part of it

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Grandicap posted:

They only want to be the last one standing if they all die. So they get a partial victory if they lose. There is no benefit to bussing over a regular game, just a partial victory if the scum loses.

Gotta get 2 points to not be a loser though

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

What's the amni thing?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

1 minute left, I guess it's amni or nobody
##vote amni

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

hambeet posted:

oh wait forum says 59 minutes so maybe my end is screwy?

I think votefinder rounds down?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Retro Futurist posted:

I haven't read most of D1 yet but I'm putting an early bet on SiV being scum, agreeing with me that nep wasnt town and therefore correctly pegging them as madness Aligned.

Also I seem to recall someone explicitly calling nep madness yesterday so once I found that that's a pretty big tell

Where did siv call nep madness? I'm not following your argument here

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy posted:

This is a bullshit reason, but he was annoying me in Survivor and I knew he wouldn't be paying attention since he was coordinating things there.

:laffo: this is so petty and dumb that I believe it and kinda love it

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Hal Incandenza posted:

Ok your whole thing yesterday was the "sketchy bandwagon" but I'm still unclear what the sketchy part was? It was really only a three vote wagon. Do you still think me/SiV/RF are sketchy?

I don't think this case:

Retro Futurist posted:

Woods posting: TT has barely put in effort but that's still more than anyone else.
Nep's response felt the most thought out so they'd be my pick and I'm surprised Tom didn't say "trap sprung" yet
is legitimately good enough to pull 4 votes for Nep-nep.
I think one or more of these responses is from scum

spacing in vienna posted:

Dang, this is a good catch. Nep uses 20 words instead of 3, and it's overly careful in its phrasing.

##vote nep

Hal Incandenza posted:

Yeah that RF point about Nep is solid, that was a very crafted post by Nep, ##vote Nep

sandnavyguy posted:

Well, I guess joke phase is over. In that case I'll ##vote Nep, mostly because of their wordy posts and the fact I can't really argue with the position of those already voting them.

I am not suspicious of Opop for the initial case, just the wagon that formed on it.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

siv on nep

spacing in vienna posted:

Dang, this is a good catch. Nep uses 20 words instead of 3, and it's overly careful in its phrasing.

##vote nep

Nep-Nep posted:

This push on me is bad, I like this vote the least:

Describing the way I wrote my post as overly careful is a really nebulous easy argument to push especially because the only defense I can give is to deny.
I agree with Nep-Nep here that it is an easy nebulous argument to make

siv responds with these two posts

spacing in vienna posted:

I don't actually think it's nebulous. You looked like you were self conscious about your phrasing. If you're saying you weren't, fine, you can say so. Just because something is hard to argue against doesn't mean it's an argument in bad faith. Besides, you didn't actually deny it anyway, just gave a meta defense, which fits the same vibe.

spacing in vienna posted:

A) ok but nep didn't, she retreated to weird meta commentary

B) I'm not sure I buy that an accusation has to be falsifiable. In a previous game I told someone I didn't think he actually believed what he was saying; I thought he was faking his reaction. There's not much anyone can say to directly counter that other than "no, I'm not," but that doesn't mean it's somehow an unfair accusation?

Also, you could counter it, anyway. That person could have said "I am in fact upset over XYZ" and I decide if I believe it, or nep says "I was overthinking and got in my head with game mechanics" and I say ok or not.
Dismissing Nep-Nep's argument as a weird meta commentary, but Nep-Nep didn't make any meta commentary. When siv made this post Nep-Nep hadn't made any posts except the one quoted above. If anyone is making weird meta commentary here it is siv.

Then siv starts to waffle

spacing in vienna posted:

This isn't Nep Is Definitely Scum btw just that I didn't like something and am saying so

and does a weird "here is how you defend yourself against me" post

spacing in vienna posted:

"I had a longer post and then realized part of it was wrong, so I cut out two paragraphs in the middle and it didn't staple together right"

"I don't think it was wordy"

"I seem to be explaining myself a lot today. That's not scummy, that's just me"

How somebody reacts can be telling. I felt like nep got weirdly defensive, which is why I didn't unvote.

I didn't mean meta as in her meta, I meant meta as in adding a layer onto it.

If I had said "I had a ~bad vibe~" that's something hard to argue against, but A) overly wordy is actually something other people can see if they agree with or not and B) people make "vibe" arguments all the time anyway.

After being called out by a few posters she backs off.

spacing in vienna posted:

Ok, that's fair.

##unvote

I felt a little unsure with people piling on anyway.

It's not a slam dunk but I definitely have ~bad vibes~ about siv. She's my strongest scum read so far

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

sng on nep

sng drops the 4th vote on Nep but then has a weird quick turnaround when he's called out on it

sandnavyguy posted:

Well, I guess joke phase is over. In that case I'll ##vote Nep, mostly because of their wordy posts and the fact I can't really argue with the position of those already voting them.

Jose Valasquez posted:

This "Nep-nep made one serious post so she's scum" bandwagon kinda skeeves me out.

Especially stuff like this:


Nep-nep has made one game related post, not a bunch of "wordy posts"

sandnavyguy posted:

Actually... you're absolutely right. I mixed Nep up with TT for some odd reason and thought they were the one to make that interesting but flawed "All scum cometh unto me" post. looking back, she actually DIDN'T post... anything? except a couple shortlength posts a while back. So, ##unvote

Then later defends nep

sandnavyguy posted:

I mean, the post is articulated well and thought out, but I dont see that as neccesarily inorganic. after all, there was an hour and 13 minutes between TT's post and Nep's response, plenty of time to assess the post especially as there wasn't much substance to chew on at that point. I'm on Nep's side with this one, just because the argument doesnt hold water.

sng had the most concerning vote on Nep, but I'm honestly not sure how to read the turnaround. Maybe it was an honest mistake by town? Maybe it was a scum panic on getting called out? I'm not sure yet.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Hal on nep

Hal is the 3rd vote on Nep, which used to be considered a scum tell back in the day I think?

Hal Incandenza posted:

Yeah that RF point about Nep is solid, that was a very crafted post by Nep, ##vote Nep

Hal Incandenza posted:

I admit the Nep-Nep case is typical D1 shallowness but it doesn't help her case that she showed up and voted someone voting her and didn't say much else.
He admits that the case isn't great, but at this point he is right, Nep-Nep had only come in and omgused siv.

Later:

Hal Incandenza posted:

Nep-nep's posting still doesn't feel great and seems self-conscious. Prefer her to grandicap still.

Hal Incandenza posted:

Nep's response to Tom felt cautious an inorganic, and since then she came back and basically OMGUS's the people voting her and those posts also felt, to me at least, forced and self-conscious.
Of the 3 "bandwagon" votes, Hal is the only one that expands on the reasons for voting nep beyond "yeah me too" which gives me ~good vibes~

Based on the nep votes I'd go siv > snb > hal

In conclusion, the nep bandwagon is a land of contrasts

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I'll take another look at the rest of D1 after I get some work done.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy posted:

JoseV: I'm glad you appreciate my explanation, but with me at the end of that Amni hammer, and I am suspicious of that

And you would have been suspicious of me if I hadn't voted and we no-launched.

There were less than 2 minutes left and the options were launch Amni or launch nobody. In that scenario I'll take Amni any day of the week.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

spacing in vienna posted:

K. Still not me. I'm just low hanging fruit. No one appears to spot the contradiction inherent in "the case on nep nep was utter garbage" and yet "clearly SiV is scum who somehow knew nep was 3p." Based on the ... garbage case? If there was nothing there, how did hypothetical scum me spot a 3p?!
Why would you need to know nep was 3p? As scum you would just want a plausible case to attach yourself to. Nep being 3p is just icing on the cake.

sandnavyguy posted:

I'm not quite sure I agree on a SiV push, I have them leaning town based on their level of activity and their scum hunting. Plus, they are right that we can't condemn them for BOTH pushing Nep and having a bad case.That doesn't make sense and in addition if SiV were scum they certainly wouldn't want to lunch someone else, nk Nep, and then have them flip presumably town and put SiV in hot water to defend the push.

IMO There wasn't enough evidence present for Scum to know that Nep was 3p, and it was a lucky fluke. It is then likely that they felt Nep was town. So It is likely that a D1 NK would be put on a presumed Townie that had little or no connective tissue to the weak scumhunting arguments to help prevent suspicion in the early game.

NK speculation is a dangerous game. Nep was one of the 3 votes on siv yesterday, that is reason enough for siv to kill her. It is also reason enough for a scum group that doesn't include siv to kill Nep, hoping that we read too much into it.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

The Amni shift was really strange. I just spent the last hour+ analyzing it and I'm not sure I really got anywhere, but here's what I found

This is where the vote sat until 10m left

votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

Grandicap (4): Tom Tucker, hambeet, yuming, Amnistar
Nep-Nep (2): spacing in vienna, Retro Futurist, Hal Incandenza, sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy, spacing in vienna
spacing in vienna (2): Nep-Nep, Grandicap
yuming (1): Jose Valasquez
Spoonsy (1): Amnistar, Amnistar, sandnavyguy
Retro Futurist (0): Grandicap, Grandicap
Amnistar (0): hambeet, hambeet
Hal Incandenza (0): Amnistar, Amnistar
hambeet (0): sandnavyguy, yuming, Grandicap, yuming, sandnavyguy, Grandicap
Somberbrero (0): yuming, yuming
Tom Tucker (0): hambeet, hambeet

Not Voting (3): Somberbrero, spacing in vienna, Spoonsy

With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 08th, 2020 at 9 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 38 minutes.

Then this happens

Jose Valasquez posted:

Oh crap, I lost track of time.

Like I posted earlier, I think the wagon on nep-nep is the sketchiest thing to happen so far

##vote siv while I catch up, I'll switch to whoever is leading if I have to before the deadline

hambeet posted:

##unvote

yuming posted:

##vote Amni

hambeet posted:

##vote amni

Grandicap posted:

##vote Amni Swing this execution

spacing in vienna posted:

Ok, I'm down.

##vote amni


Jose Valasquez posted:

1 minute left, I guess it's amni or nobody
##vote amni

Spoonsy posted:

gently caress it ##vote amni


xopods posted:

FINAL Votecount for Day 1

Amnistar (7): hambeet, hambeet, yuming, hambeet, Grandicap, spacing in vienna, Hal Incandenza, Jose Valasquez, Spoonsy
Grandicap (2): Tom Tucker, hambeet, yuming, Amnistar, hambeet, yuming
Nep-Nep (1): spacing in vienna, Retro Futurist, Hal Incandenza, sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy, spacing in vienna, Hal Incandenza
Spoonsy (1): Amnistar, Amnistar, sandnavyguy
spacing in vienna (1): Nep-Nep, Grandicap, Jose Valasquez, Grandicap, Jose Valasquez
Retro Futurist (0): Grandicap, Grandicap
yuming (0): Jose Valasquez, Jose Valasquez
Hal Incandenza (0): Amnistar, Amnistar
hambeet (0): sandnavyguy, yuming, Grandicap, yuming, sandnavyguy, Grandicap
Somberbrero (0): yuming, yuming
Tom Tucker (0): hambeet, hambeet

Not Voting (1): Somberbrero

With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 08th, 2020 at 9 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 0 minutes.

The last time each player posted prior to the Amni rush (Opop and TT were just not around that day):
none - Retro Futurist (He/him/opop)
none - Tom Tucker
8:07 - Somberbrero (He/him)
8:24 - Hal Incandenza (he/him/hal)
8:38 - sandnavyguy
8:47 - Amnistar (7:49 before that, he was distracted by Survivor and was effectively absent)
8:48 - Nep-Nep (She/Her)
8:51 - Grandicap (He, Him)
8:53 - hambeet (he/him)
8:54 - spacing in vienna (she, her)
8:54 - yuming (she/her)
8:54 - Jose Valasquez (he/him/his)
8:55 - Spoonsy (he/him/his)


One interesting thing that jumps out is that almost everyone was here, but we had a hard time killing anyone. It was not at all obvious that we had enough votes around to kill anybody at all.

Narrowing it down to who was very obviously here and posting in the last few minutes before the switch, these were the votes
hambeet -> Grandi
siv -> Nep
Grandi -> SiV
yuming -> Grandi
Jose -> SiV
Spoonsy -> Nobody

So 2 Grandi votes are present
2 SiV votes are present
1 Nep vote is present
1 free agent

Grandi is at 4 votes
SiV is at 3 votes
Nep is at 2 votes

Ultimately it is 2 of the Grandi votes that peel off, but why peel off of Grandi onto Amni instead of Nep or SiV? Obviously not to protect Nep, but maybe to protect Grandi or SiV? I could see yuming or beet (or both?) being scum with both Grandi and SiV, it seems pretty brazen though... and again, why not Nep instead? Hoping for a no-launch?

Grandi and SiV vote Amni next, which makes sense, they know they are the other options so a self-preservation vote makes sense regardless of alignment. By this point there are 3 minutes left and the vote is:
4 Amni
2 Grandi
2 SiV

Hal, Spoonsy, and I make the move to prevent a no launch. It is self serving to say but I don't think you can read much into these three votes, the options were vote Amni or no-launch, nobody regardless of alignment who has been actively posting is going to let a no-launch happen.

I don't know, something doesn't add up here but I can't figure out what it means

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

It all happened in 4 minutes.

hambeet and yuming, what were you thinking when you tried to swing the vote to Amni with 4 minutes left before the deadline? The most likely outcome was a no-launch

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I kinda get it, if scum were convinced Nep was 3p they wouldn't want to launch her and give the town a bonus. Anyone being that confident on D1 is a stretch though

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

The kinda-cop claim doesn't sway me one way or another, I can see it being useful for either town or scum.

This kinda feels like fishing for a counterclaim

spacing in vienna posted:

I imagine that I can catch scum in a lie if they claim to be VT.

When town apathy lunches me in a few hours, please notice who decided to shrug and keep voting me, even though I am according to my role PM at least an uncountered cop.
If you're going down as scum may as well try to get a cop claim out of it

I think she's the best option today. I thought my vote was already down on her from earlier, but I guess it isn't!

##vote siv which puts her an -1

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy posted:

Here's the thing - I don't think you're town. And I know you're not Ego.

I should have removed my vote on SiV when I saw the claim and realized the specificity of it.

I am aware of what it is that I'm saying, but before I say anything further as to the specificity of my flavor, does this make sense to anyone else?
idgi

Spoonsy posted:

Lunch all liars

##vote Grandicap

Ohh

Ohhhhhhhhh.......

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy posted:

I kept rereading trying to find a use for it and I really couldn’t see any. Just saying whether someone is superego or not doesn’t help the town and can give the scum help in hunting.

Happy to keep my vote as is.

Uhh... Spoonsy... this post feels weird now

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy, did you visit Grandi N1 or N2?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Ok, so I'm the mason recruiter. I recruited Grandi last night, and I can confirm that he told me about his targets prior to Spoonsy announcing his result.

hambeet posted:

That plan is terrible is and the only reason you would float it is if you were sure of the other person a alignment.

This whole performance in thread is to try convince your “unconfirmed” mason bud of your towniness. It’s performative as heck.
Honestly, this thought went through my mind as well, I was a bit surprised how quickly Grandi trusted me with his results. I'm still not 100% sure what to make of Grandi...

However, one thing I did not tell Grandi about my role is that I'm a cautious recruiter. I can only successfully recruit if I am the only one to target that person, so I know that Spoonsy did not successfully target Grandi last night.

Given this
either Spoonsy is lying, which doesn't make much sense (unless we are in lylo I guess) or someone messed with the night actions.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Well this is something I guess?

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

sandnavyguy posted:

No, only N2, my actions succeeded, which means I prevented a death on a marked player, and marked the player who visited me with... a special action. But when I trigger it I’ll get ANOTHER empowerment. So effectively two in a row!

:what:

Did you protect yourself or something? I don't understand what preventing a death on a marked player means when you said someone tried to kill you

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

hambeet posted:

so

grandicap - tracker
hal -
beet -
jose v - mason recruiter
retro
sandnavyguy - some defensive marking thingo
sombrero
spoonsy - something i didn't quite understand, a cop or lie detector or something?
yuming - empowerer

uh okay

I think Spoonsy is an ego cop, basically the opposite of siv's Superego cop

quote:

Superego Cop: You may target one player each night to investigate them. You will be told whether or not they are Superego-Aligned. All other alignments (including Ego-Aligned) produce a negative result, so “not Superego-Aligned” does not necessarily imply “not Town.”

He can tell if someone is VT or not

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

I think Somber is the only one who hasn't posted since your claim, so it's either him or someone that isn't going to claim it

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

hambeet posted:

Okay thanks.

Grandicap is claiming Spoonsy visited me, when Spoonsy is claiming they targeted Grandicap, yes?

I don't get what you mean by telling if they're VT or not. Super Ego are more likely the vanilla roles it says.

Sorry, I meant town power role or not, SiV's power was VT or not

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