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MasqueradeOverture
Apr 4, 2020

No.

They're essentially the 90's Batman movies.

Batman / The Force Awakens - The basics of a story you love repackaged for the modern day. Could be denser, but a satisfying popcorn movie. Mega-blockbuster.

Batman Returns / The Last Jedi - Nobody can agree on this loving thing. Some say it's the best of them (Me!) with a more complex story and characters, others say it's a try-hard mess and are not fans of the angular pacing or tonal whiplash of contemplative darkness one second, then extremely cartoonish antics the next.

Batman Forever / The Rise Of Skywalker - Almost unanimously agreed as a mess. Production was a shitshow (Staff got shafted mid-production, studio tried to course correct back to a safer direction after BR/TLJ's reception). However, a longer and perhaps more realized cut exists, somewhere...

Batman & Robin / ??? - Don't even think about it LucasFilm.

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mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Roth
Jul 9, 2016


I love Batman Returns, probably a lot more than anyone reasonably should. It's such a wonderfully gothic looking movie, and I'd really like to watch the 4K master that was recently released.

Batman Forever is pretty bad, but I do like how it looks as well.

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020



Forever had a lot of heart. I refuse to hate it.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Batman 1989 absolutely doesn't hold up. I got to see a rewatch in a theater and it's astounding how badly it plays when it's just you, a giant screen, and no distractions. The movie starts 3 times, has a pointless narrative of "who is the Batman?" that drags the first act including at least one fakeout, and for all the credit the production design deserves to get a remarkable amount of the movie looks like expensive redressed versions of the '66 show right down to color palette. It was such a bore I walked out during the third act.

Batman Returns I think holds up a bit better because it's such a vignette piece with like three competing main plots, so some pockets are really energetic or arresting and others can be ignored more in totality. It's a rare movie I would say can be really good and really bad simultaneously with neither version really edging the other out, or even conflicting all that badly.

And with hindsight, the Schumacher Batman movies don't suck because they're camp or have a gay man's aesthetic vision, but because Schumacher isn't funny. He's like Taika Waititi in that all he has the actors do is mug at the camera and throw a goofy spin on the line delivery, and it ends up sapping the production of energy. At least Taika was smart enough to leverage The Office's Jim face to nudge the audience and go "see you're in on it too" to make Ragnarok play to wide audiences. I hate that style, but I get why it appeals. Schmacher's stuff just falls flat unless you divorce them entirely from context into bite-size clips.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.

I'd say "I'll defend the Schumacker batmans" but I don't really have anything other than my staunch belief that they treated batman with the level of gravity batman actually deserves.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



The Schumacher Batmans have the redeeming factor of fully leaning into the camp. They are not good examples of Batman, but they are hilarious.

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.


Bogus Adventure posted:

The Schumacher Batmans have the redeeming factor of fully leaning into the camp. They are not good examples of Batman, but they are hilarious.


Schumacher clearly wanted to make big-budget 60's Batman movies, the studio obviously wanted arch Gothic Burton Batman to continue. Forever juuuuuuuuust manages to split the difference.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

At least the 90s batmovies gave us BTAS.

Also something something Mark Hamill

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

Daikloktos posted:

Forever had a lot of heart. I refuse to hate it.

It was the first Batman film I was old enough to go see in a theater. And Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones trying to out ham one another while basically everyone else outside of maybe Chris O'Donnell sleepwalks through the movie is utterly fantastic. A Star Wars Batman And Robin would almost be worth it to see what kind of Mr. Freeze ice puns they can come up with, only for the Force instead.

Rise of Skywalker still blows though.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



I've been rewatching Batman Beyond clips and that show was just as good, and in some ways better than B:TAS which late Gen-X and Millennials tend to overpraise a bit. I've mentioned it before but basically the team was so good at finding creative ways to "not kill" the bad guys that they ended up coming up with some supreme PG body horror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G26h0NBTmgw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZPK1qfNqXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNZ0n-OGMDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPQuZ7VMkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEwFhB9WTk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnrPREVR5pM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2xTLyIh1L0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LGO4eLijz8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_SUAtAu9DE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etst4t3ES8Y

It was "What if Spider-Man were Iron Man Jr., in Blade Runner's world with just a dash of GATTACA?"

It's honestly a loving pity that Warner Brothers is deathly allergic to Batman's monster side.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



April Moon is one of the singular best episodes of childrens television and is more educational than 10 million episodes of hug it out lets be friends moralizing.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

The irony is Spider-man as Iron Man Jr is absolutely the MCU take on the character but boring af.

Terry's more like a proto-supervillain who ended up as Bruce Wayne's protege and it more or less works out.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Similarly, Iron Man is so unflappably good that the people we see him incidentally belittle/treat like trash turn out to be psychopathic murderers while Bruce is directly at fault for things due to his own cognizant decisions and has a worn in lust and talent for violence.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

I mean there's a reason Ra's desperately wants Bruce as his heir and only fails because Bruce has too much self-loathing to embrace immortality

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



I liked Batman Beyond until it established that Bruce hosed Babs in the DCAU, and had Tim Drake tortured/brainwashed into becoming Joker Junior. The first is a really weird and gross fetish of Bruce Timm's, and something that I can't buy that Bruce Wayne would do to Dick Grayson. The second is just looking at A Death in the Family and deciding that the part about torturing tweens is cool and good.

I'll grant that the aesthetic is pretty cool, and Terry is an interesting protagonist.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Batman Beyond was schway as hell.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Bogus Adventure posted:

I liked Batman Beyond until it established that Bruce hosed Babs in the DCAU, and had Tim Drake tortured/brainwashed into becoming Joker Junior. The first is a really weird and gross fetish of Bruce Timm's, and something that I can't buy that Bruce Wayne would do to Dick Grayson. The second is just looking at A Death in the Family and deciding that the part about torturing tweens is cool and good.

I'll grant that the aesthetic is pretty cool, and Terry is an interesting protagonist.
The Barbara stuff is easy to ignore, although I agree it paints Bruce as an absolute garbage human being. There's an argument of "oh that's the point to show how far he's fallen" but I mean... Bruce Timm's Killing Joke makes it abundantly clear that Barbara/Bruce is just his fetish. And it's a really bad fetish. It's pretty amazing how low a bar a Killing Joke movie needed to clear, and yet it still managed to slide well under it despite the talent involved.

I liked the Tim Drake stuff though. It felt like an appropriate climax for both the Joker and the Bat-Family in the Beyond world. It's sick, but no more than most of the other gothic cyberpunk stuff.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



mind the walrus posted:

The Barbara stuff is easy to ignore, although I agree it paints Bruce as an absolute garbage human being. There's an argument of "oh that's the point to show how far he's fallen" but I mean... Bruce Timm's Killing Joke makes it abundantly clear that Barbara/Bruce is just his fetish. And it's a really bad fetish. It's pretty amazing how low a bar a Killing Joke movie needed to clear, and yet it still managed to slide well under it despite the talent involved.

I liked the Tim Drake stuff though. It felt like an appropriate climax for both the Joker and the Bat-Family in the Beyond world. It's sick, but no more than most of the other gothic cyberpunk stuff.

The Tim Drake stuff rubbed me the wrong way because I like both versions of Tim, the comic book and the DCAU versions. The comic book one makes him Bruce Wayne but not a psycho, while the DCAU made him Jason Todd but not an rear end in a top hat. I can see why people would like it, but it personally turned me off from that branch of the DCAU.

The aesthetic rules, though.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



MasqueradeOverture posted:

Batman Returns / The Last Jedi - Nobody can agree on this loving thing. Some say it's the best of them (Me!) with a more complex story and characters, others say it's a try-hard mess and are not fans of the angular pacing or tonal whiplash of contemplative darkness one second, then extremely cartoonish antics the next.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


Batman and Robin is more like RoS in that from beginning to end it is complete poo poo.

Batman Forever is more like Rogue One or Solo.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Batman and Robin at least gives you memorable poo poo, like Bat nipples, the Bat credit card, "Ice to meet you" and "Take two of these and call me in the morning," fake lips, and sexy Alicia Silverstone



Rise of Skywalker has provided what, exactly?

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Bogus Adventure posted:



Rise of Skywalker has provided what, exactly?

Babu Frik

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



sheev cyberbullies the galaxy and also fucks

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

red bird

cuntman.net posted:

sheev cyberbullies the galaxy and also fucks

BREAKING NEWS: 90 year old man becomes Fortnite Superstar, embarrasses granddaughter in front of her boyfriend.

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



lol

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Roth posted:

Babu Frik

meh

nine-gear crow posted:

BREAKING NEWS: 90 year old man becomes Fortnite Superstar, embarrasses granddaughter in front of her boyfriend.

Okay, yeah. That owned, lol.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

I still can't believe that actually happened and wasn't a Hard Times joke

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

"When I started here all there was was lampshade warehouses and leather bars, the serious leather bars where you wouldn't get in unless you had a rubber ball stuffed in your mouth, the wine list was tattooed on the bartender's face. That kind of place."

-Bogus Adventure



Ghost Leviathan posted:

I still can't believe that actually happened and wasn't a Hard Times joke

It's pretty loving incredible. To be fair, though, it might have made the whole thing super memorable for some fans.

Back before we entered the grim darkness of the 21st Century, I remember this Doritos promotion for the Star Wars Special Editions. Each Doritos bag had a special little "holographic" pog-shaped thingamobobber inside it with a scene from the movies. It became a quest for my family because I was a kid, a huge nerd, and crazy for Star Wars. We would go to different stores to buy random Big Grab bags of Doritos, pop open the fuckers, and search for the pog. We must have put a poo poo ton of money into local corner stores, but by God, we got every single one of those drat holopogs.

It was dumb and stupid, but I can and will always look back at those memories and laugh at how much fun we had trying to find those dumb holopogs. I am sure those people, when they grow older, will look back and smile at the time they got to hear Palpatine talk poo poo on Fortnite.

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ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007





I've always thought of Star Wars Episode II as the perfect Batman and Robin movie. Like, if it was a Batman and Robin movie, I'd love it more.

I'm kind of new to the franchise...but I think Episode II is my favorite because of this.

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