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maybe this 3 arc spread of demon biotruths will be the worst of it and we'll all look back on it and go "well that was weird" *next arc, frieran talks about the dirty dark skinned evil foreigners* oh noooooooo
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Aug 25, 2020 17:34
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Oh no. The baby eating monsters are all evil. Anyway.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:35
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I feel like if the demons are actually a whole species with no empathy who can't understand concepts like family they shouldn't be organized what appears to be more or less along human lines.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:37
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I'm also in the "yikers" camp on the direction this is moving but at least the humans were also shown to be duplicitous snakes. There is time to salvage this, like if we just get out of this town and back to some funerals...
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Aug 25, 2020 17:39
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If demons don't even know about basic familial relations, they've probably got some nonstandard form of reproduction. Think of like, orcs in the Lord of the Rings being mined out of a spawning pit Gives me vibes of sci fi killer robots, actually
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Aug 25, 2020 17:49
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Sindai posted:I feel like if the demons are actually a whole species with no empathy who can't understand concepts like family they shouldn't be organized what appears to be more or less along human lines. Interesting thought. They are organized but they don't actually seem to care about each other the same way people do. Qual is the only demon so far in these two instances that showed actual comradarie and I could easily argue given the way the translation is worded he wasn't actually upset at all about the death of the demon king. This chapter, Wire didn't really care about Frieran's taunts even when it included his superior Aura. There's a certain frankness to how demons handle stuff that goes along with how the child from the last chapter was mostly dispassionate and logical in her thought process. It's likely that they form organizations purely because it's necessary for survival and you know, waging wars against another organized group. Young demons are also very dumb because they have no chill or patience.
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Aug 25, 2020 17:56
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Brought To You By posted:Interesting thought. They are organized but they don't actually seem to care about each other the same way people do. Qual is the only demon so far in these two instances that showed actual comradarie and I could easily argue given the way the translation is worded he wasn't actually upset at all about the death of the demon king. This chapter, Wire didn't really care about Frieran's taunts even when it included his superior Aura. There's a certain frankness to how demons handle stuff that goes along with how the child from the last chapter was mostly dispassionate and logical in her thought process. It's likely that they form organizations purely because it's necessary for survival and you know, waging wars against another organized group. I don't think logical is the right word, given we just see a young demon make a really stupid decision based mostly on impulse.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:23
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Oh draht.Hidingo Kojimba posted:I don't think logical is the right word, given we just see a young demon make a really stupid decision based mostly on impulse. Yeah, the assassination plan...seemed really badly thought out.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:34
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:I don't think logical is the right word, given we just see a young demon make a really stupid decision based mostly on impulse. It was logical, but also stupid: 1) This person is the only threat to our mission 2) She's currently in jail where she has been disarmed and separated from her companions 3) I can easily kill people with my magic 4) I should kill her now before the situation changes He certainly wasn't very cunning or patient, but his chain of thought makes sense. Too bad he picked the worst possible target imaginable.
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Aug 25, 2020 18:52
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I think its said in the story that they're left alone basically from birth, so they must be strong enough to fend for themselves from the get-go. I don't think they're robots or whatever the gently caress. As far as their socialization goes, my guess is that their relationships are formed strictly out of respect for a superior's strength, which is admittedly a little boring, but I've liked the comic enough so far to see it through so long as we don't get dragged into a longer "gently caress demons" arc
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Aug 25, 2020 19:17
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I honestly dont find it surprising, the way the demons have been characterized so far is not human at all and even other stories that try to humanize them explain that they have a instinctive drive to follow monsters stronger than them. Its one of the only ways you can rationalize the whole "Demon lord unifies a bunch of seemingly independent powerful assholes to wage total war against the human races" outside of "The humans are the real bastards"
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Aug 25, 2020 21:16
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One thing I do hope is just a quirk of the writing is how Lugen didn't go into detail about what a father is. Even if he's just pretending he could have offered a one sentence definition to the younger one since he's apparently far more knowledgeable on how to play the human. But he comes across as either just as ignorant as the child from the previous chapter or just flippant although with my intuition pointing towards the former.
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Aug 25, 2020 21:28
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Brought To You By posted:One thing I do hope is just a quirk of the writing is how Lugen didn't go into detail about what a father is. Even if he's just pretending he could have offered a one sentence definition to the younger one since he's apparently far more knowledgeable on how to play the human. But he comes across as either just as ignorant as the child from the previous chapter or just flippant although with my intuition pointing towards the former. I think your intuition is right, where he mentions his "father," you could easily put literally any family member or position for "father" and it would read the same. At most, he may understand that "son" somehow relates to "father" so he knows to say his father died when a human says their son did. Like Mad-Libs: "I see this [noun] is [adjective], it must be [participle phrase relating to adjective]. My [relation or comrade based on Table 1B]'s [noun] is also very [adjective] he died in [conflict] as well."
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Aug 25, 2020 21:45
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I think "this room is spotless, and speaks to a dedication to honoring your son's memory" requires more than a madlib, and would require some degree of understanding of the behavior that underpins it. Not that that necessarily indicates anything, since it could be the mangaka inserting something for convenience without realizing the implication really.
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Aug 25, 2020 21:54
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tsob posted:I think "this room is spotless, and speaks to a dedication to honoring your son's memory" requires more than a madlib, and would require some degree of understanding of the behavior that underpins it. Not that that necessarily indicates anything, since it could be the mangaka inserting something for convenience without realizing the implication really. Look, if he tried to explain what a father was, he'd have to explain the disgusting act of human reproduction
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Aug 25, 2020 22:02
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Test Pattern posted:I think your intuition is right, where he mentions his "father," you could easily put literally any family member or position for "father" and it would read the same. At most, he may understand that "son" somehow relates to "father" so he knows to say his father died when a human says their son did. Like Mad-Libs: "I see this [noun] is [adjective], it must be [participle phrase relating to adjective]. My [relation or comrade based on Table 1B]'s [noun] is also very [adjective] he died in [conflict] as well." Yeah, at this point I know demons aren't robots, but this is some chinese room levels of comprehension they have going on for them. This is potentially what I consider less interesting than completely self-aware and intelligent creatures mimicking human qualities. tsob posted:I think "this room is spotless, and speaks to a dedication to honoring your son's memory" requires more than a madlib, and would require some degree of understanding of the behavior that underpins it. Not that that necessarily indicates anything, since it could be the mangaka inserting something for convenience without realizing the implication really.
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Aug 25, 2020 22:06
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I'm happy to see no "Frieran was wrong" messaging. I really like this take on demons, it's super boring when stories depict sapient fantasy species as Halloween costumes or cultural analogues.
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Aug 26, 2020 00:21
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Brought To You By posted:Yeah, at this point I know demons aren't robots, but this is some chinese room levels of comprehension they have going on for them. This is potentially what I consider less interesting than completely self-aware and intelligent creatures mimicking human qualities. I think the demons function like pure pursuit-vision apex predators. They see and process enough to do what they believe will attain their goal, and don't waste time thinking about anything besides that. It's the same reason why the garotte kid has the reasoning laid out above; he saw the straight line and didn't absorb anything outside of that. He might have filed away somewhere that there's a progenitor relationship between a father and son, and that humans have a sentimentality about such things that can make them drop their guard, but besides his lack of access to the emotions that would more fully explain the relationship, once he's done doing the exploiting the details just aren't important anymore and he's already moved on.
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Aug 26, 2020 01:09
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Yeah, I'm struggling to see the difference between this depiction of these demons and like...the Thing (apart from shapeshifting/bodysnatching obviously)?
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Aug 26, 2020 02:24
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I actually like that the author is trying to subvert the usual tropes by saying "These demons aren't human, they are predators who use speech to deceive". This isn't racism, because those demons aren't human. They are like parasitic insects who look like bees so they can take over the hive. It's a really interesting take on the usual human-demon dynamic in manga, but it's been handled a bit clunkily. Dropping the manga because lol racism is a little silly. Two similarly related animals don't fight because of racism, they fight for survival and food and, quite frankly, because one of them might try to eat the other one. I suspect there is going to be an overarching conflict with this Lady Aura that is going to reinforce the relationship between the party so that you feel it even more when Frieren outlives them again. That, or she effortlessly blows them all away to show how far outside of the world she is, which accomplishes the same effect of isolating her due to her effective immortality. SchrodingersCat fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 03:35
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Sindai posted:I feel like if the demons are actually a whole species with no empathy who can't understand concepts like family they shouldn't be organized what appears to be more or less along human lines. Yeah with that shot of the queen with a typically human-ish guard it almost feels like demons are monsters who are playing house, puppets performing an elaborate reenactment of human society without having an actual, fundamental understanding of how human society works or the foundations of said society beyond survival. this author hasn't earned my confidence that they can pull off a concept like that successfully, I feel like they're TRYING something nuanced but the way they're going about it isn't doing it for me Brought To You By posted:Interesting thought. They are organized but they don't actually seem to care about each other the same way people do. Qual is the only demon so far in these two instances that showed actual comradarie and I could easily argue given the way the translation is worded he wasn't actually upset at all about the death of the demon king. This chapter, Wire didn't really care about Frieran's taunts even when it included his superior Aura. There's a certain frankness to how demons handle stuff that goes along with how the child from the last chapter was mostly dispassionate and logical in her thought process. It's likely that they form organizations purely because it's necessary for survival and you know, waging wars against another organized group.
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Aug 26, 2020 04:29
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Those werent guards though? They were beaten up empty suits of armor, the same type that the guards in the town use. It could be a metaphorical image to show what she's going to do once she eliminates all the humans in the town, she could have a display like that already, in which case I dont think its playing house and more that its a macabre display to unnerve humans / bolster demon morale. Would demons in this world even have morale? There could still be a functional reason for her to do it if her magic allows her to puppet them. And lugner knows what empathy is so its fair to say he understands enough about human concepts to use it against them, that does not mean he is capable of it on a biological level. That doesn't mean that there aren't some evolved demons out there whose brain has enough connections in the right areas to actually be able to feel compassion and empathy, just that it would be extremely rare.
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Aug 31, 2020 23:04
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Ah....so those suits might not be empty after all 
Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 1, 2020 |
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Sep 1, 2020 20:50
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But at least this confirms that the demons aren't biological entities, they're some type of mana spirit thing. That explains a lot.
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Sep 1, 2020 21:02
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:But at least this confirms that the demons aren't biological entities, they're some type of mana spirit thing. That explains a lot. Doesn't really make it any better, though. Honestly, by this point it seems to me like the best we can hope for is that they'll get more and more cartoonishly evil, maybe then the parallels to real-world attitudes about malicious Others who merely look and act human won't feel quite so blatant anymore.
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Sep 1, 2020 21:12
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Huh. So everything we saw of Draht, even his clothes, was mana.Cao Ni Ma posted:Ah....so those suits might not be empty after all Lived up to her name.
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Sep 1, 2020 21:27
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Them being made of Mana means they are either purposefully created or form from something. This explains why they don't have parents and their disdain for humans comes from their origin. Since the group is on the way to the former Demon King's Castle, where you are supposed to be able to meet the dead, Demons might form from all the negative baggage the dead have. -e- How about the classical origin of demons, the fear and nightmares of humans? Lurking Haro fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 1, 2020 |
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Sep 1, 2020 21:42
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:But at least this confirms that the demons aren't biological entities, they're some type of mana spirit thing. That explains a lot. The clothes disappearing with the body was interesting. Aura also has to have the strongest arm in the world because she's perpetually holding that scale at just the right angle every single time.
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Sep 1, 2020 21:42
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Well, I guess Firien made it to someone's funeral.
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Sep 2, 2020 01:17
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[IMG ambulance meme of frieren saying "somebody plan a funeral... but not for me!"]
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Sep 2, 2020 01:55
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 I'm intrigued by the presentation of morbid moments in the same deadpan manner as the earlier, "fluffier" chapters, it feels very Kitano-esque
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Sep 2, 2020 02:11
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new chapter
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Sep 8, 2020 21:26
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Yep
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Sep 8, 2020 21:30
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So now Frieren is the Doom Slayer. Has this all been an extended "talk to the monsters" joke?
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Sep 8, 2020 21:37
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The title drop is clever, but the demons are still pretty boring antagonists. If we see more of them later I hope the author has more interesting plans for them.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:38
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Frieran is the Saitama of her universe. Except she can teach other people Serious Series moves and make them commonplace.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:41
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:So now Frieren is the Doom Slayer. 
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Sep 9, 2020 01:27
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elves are so rare that none of these demons are likely to have ever seen or even heard about another one. so this demon who has seen frieran in action not recognizing her or associating her with the legendary demon slayer is pretty off.
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Sep 9, 2020 01:40
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[Megalovania starts playing in the background]
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Sep 9, 2020 17:43
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 12:36 |
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:elves are so rare that none of these demons are likely to have ever seen or even heard about another one. so this demon who has seen frieran in action not recognizing her or associating her with the legendary demon slayer is pretty off.
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Sep 9, 2020 19:20
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