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Barudak
May 7, 2007



Honey just because Ragripper has a decommissioned nuclear warhead doesn't mean we have to have one, it doesn't even work.

Dammit, spouse, its not about it working or no, its about prestige. Im Warlord Thundrous, and I should have a missile. Sometimes you can just be so insensitive

<hires a black leather clad wanderer in a V8 interceptor to help him steal the missile setting off a chain reaction of social uprising leading to both his and Ragrippers demise>

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




galagazombie posted:

This is actually an issue in lots of post-apocalyptic settings, Eva included. What happens with all the nukes lying around. Sure you've got the nuclear war ones like Fallout where they were presumably all used to cause the aforementioned apocalypse, but what about all the ones caused by viruses, meteors, zombies, etc? That's a poo poo ton of nukes lying around with everyone supposed to be guarding them dead.

Fallout does have a big thing with shittons of unexploded nukes laying around, either failed to go off or didn't get to be launched. It's kind of the whole thing with Lonesome Road, also Megaton in 3 and the Chinese submarine in 4. And Mini-Nukes being a thing, too.

Vaguely related: Adeptus Evangelion is a very bad RPG that tries to mix EVA with Warhammer 40k but is written with what can only be described as 4chan sensibilities, but has some fun ideas. Rolling for faults on the features of your mech can result in one that's built by the lowest bidder, literally held together with duct tape, have parts fall off that can destroy nearby buildings, or be an extremely garish colour.

Not sure if it came up before, but I posted about MEGAS in the mech thread, this lovely bastard:

From the parodic and poorly treated Cartoon Network series Megas XLR, a giant robot from the future which was sent back in time with its cockpit completely destroyed, so the Jersey gearhead who found in a junkyard instead made his Plymouth Barracuda into a cockpit for it, with a completely ridiculous, and involving among other things every known video game controller (including a DDR pad as backup if the car isn't around) and all manner of buttons and dials and whatever with a very creative labelling scheme, which occasionally breaks the fourth wall. One of the lesser examples:

It should be no surprised that its builder is the only one who can use it as a result, and even he has trouble with it.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Megas XLR is/was brilliant

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Box from Logan's Run. I don't even know what the gently caress the deal was with that.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Fallout does have a big thing with shittons of unexploded nukes laying around, either failed to go off or didn't get to be launched. It's kind of the whole thing with Lonesome Road, also Megaton in 3 and the Chinese submarine in 4. And Mini-Nukes being a thing, too.

Fallout's definitely the least realistic treatment - nuclear weapons are intrinsically unstable and basically self-disarm over time. Most nuclear warheads today spend huge amounts of time in maintenance. The nuke in Megaton for example shouldn't be functional anymore, it should just be leaking poison into the drinking water.

Like a lot of SciFi, Fallout functions better if you ignore the IRL physics and treat it as magic being used for a literary end.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Fallout in general more or less explicitly treats everything radiation related in a gonzo sci-fi way rather than realistically. Though also might have something to do with how America in the alt timeline was enthusiastically working on nuke technology nonstop for almost 150 years.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Ghost Leviathan posted:

and all manner of buttons and dials and whatever with a very creative labelling scheme, which occasionally breaks the fourth wall.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Ghost Leviathan posted:

Fallout in general more or less explicitly treats everything radiation related in a gonzo sci-fi way rather than realistically. Though also might have something to do with how America in the alt timeline was enthusiastically working on nuke technology nonstop for almost 150 years.

Fallout doesn't make much sense as a setting about nukes and war but does make sense as a setting about "I'm afraid of the world moving on after I die."
Amazing.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:


galagazombie posted:

This is actually an issue in lots of post-apocalyptic settings, Eva included. What happens with all the nukes lying around. Sure you've got the nuclear war ones like Fallout where they were presumably all used to cause the aforementioned apocalypse, but what about all the ones caused by viruses, meteors, zombies, etc? That's a poo poo ton of nukes lying around with everyone supposed to be guarding them dead.

Tulip posted:

Fallout's definitely the least realistic treatment - nuclear weapons are intrinsically unstable and basically self-disarm over time. Most nuclear warheads today spend huge amounts of time in maintenance. The nuke in Megaton for example shouldn't be functional anymore, it should just be leaking poison into the drinking water.

Like a lot of SciFi, Fallout functions better if you ignore the IRL physics and treat it as magic being used for a literary end.
Yeah, as I understand it a nuke that's not maintained rapidly dials down its explosive yield before eventually turning into a dirty bomb and eventually just a big container of nuclear waste. Literally every part of the bomb deteriorates, some parts faster than usual because they're attached to a nuke, and it might become a dud within like a decade. They can be brought back to functionality again with the right materials and tech, but they're not just sitting there ready to blow for centuries.

And yeah, radiation in Fallout is literally just magic. If it was treated realistically the in-game world would look more like America in 1776 than anything else.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Full of George Washingtons and Thomases Jefferson?

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


zoux posted:

Full of George Washingtons and Thomases Jefferson?

There's already Lincolns so not that different

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Most mutations happen from mysterious FEV ooze instead of plain radiation though. Fallout 3 was the dumbest one, with their idea that all cars had adopted lil' nuclear reactors instead of gas, and so therefore, 200+ years after the world ended, all the parked cars will explode into a nuclear blast if you shoot them, in some areas setting off a chain reaction.

Apparently The Simpsons is credited with spreading most myths and public mistrust about nuclear power, since they love the joke of Homer almost destroying the entire town.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




SlothfulCobra posted:

Fallout 3 was the dumbest one

:hmmyes:

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


SlothfulCobra posted:

Most mutations happen from mysterious FEV ooze instead of plain radiation though. Fallout 3 was the dumbest one, with their idea that all cars had adopted lil' nuclear reactors instead of gas, and so therefore, 200+ years after the world ended, all the parked cars will explode into a nuclear blast if you shoot them, in some areas setting off a chain reaction.

On the other hand, blowing up an entire highway by causing a nuclear chain reaction owns

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








At least Fallout has the benefit of being labeled as fiction. The Life After People series depicted at least one nuclear power plant going off like a drat bomb after decades of neglect -- and not a Chernobyl-style Soviet plant, a fully modernized one (in America or Europe, don't recall now) that in actuality would go into negative feedback if the operating cycle isn't maintained and become as dangerous as an engine without any gas. The shittiest piece of garbage tech is the one that doesn't loving exist, but gets made up for a sensationalist ratings grab.

BiggestOrangeTree
May 18, 2008


Maybe all of fiction is an allegory for the nuclear bomb.

Linux Pirate
Apr 21, 2012

Well, there goes our grant money.





Hat protection system in The Flight of the Navigator. That bitchin' 80's NASA hat. gone just because some dumb kid wasn't smart enough to not stick his face in a specimen area. Idiot could of gotten his face bitten off/parasitically infected because of "childlike wonderment".

2/10 ruined the movie for this viewer.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




A Buttery Pastry posted:

And yeah, radiation in Fallout is literally just magic. If it was treated realistically the in-game world would look more like America in 1776 than anything else.

The NCR is pretty explicitly an Old West-level society that has some scavenged high tech gear they can maintain, but not reproduce. But that's Obsidian, who actually get the series.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.



If anyone is interested in a "what happens to all our infrastructure and nukes if humanity just disappears one day" deep dive, read "The World Without Us".

Turns out what you really have to worry about are chemical plants.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Defiance Industries posted:

The NCR is pretty explicitly an Old West-level society that has some scavenged high tech gear they can maintain, but not reproduce. But that's Obsidian, who actually get the series.

FNV is on a whole other level. "In this setting about nostalgia and memory, let's have fascists who are Rome themed" is such an obvious choice that it's almost criminal negligence that Bethesda never uses anything similar.

BiggestOrangeTree posted:

Maybe all of fiction is an allegory for the nuclear bomb.

The time ring from Braid can do so much time travel, but can it make a creepy goon not creepy? Nope! gently caress that!

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The NCR stands out because they actually have infrastructure and science; one of the triggers for Veronica's storyline is vising the Vegas office of the NCR's science and industry office and realising that the NCR don't just have scavenged technology but are actively researching and innovating. It's also noted that the Gun Runners produce all of their merchandise on-site from blueprints, in the one quest where the Crimson Caravan wants said blueprints for their own.

Some of the writers actually don't like this development much since it means the NCR isn't that post-apocalyptic anymore.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Gravitas Shortfall posted:

If anyone is interested in a "what happens to all our infrastructure and nukes if humanity just disappears one day" deep dive, read "The World Without Us".

Turns out what you really have to worry about are chemical plants.

Imagine a thousand Bhopals.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Ghost Leviathan posted:

The NCR stands out because they actually have infrastructure and science; one of the triggers for Veronica's storyline is vising the Vegas office of the NCR's science and industry office and realising that the NCR don't just have scavenged technology but are actively researching and innovating. It's also noted that the Gun Runners produce all of their merchandise on-site from blueprints, in the one quest where the Crimson Caravan wants said blueprints for their own.

Some of the writers actually don't like this development much since it means the NCR isn't that post-apocalyptic anymore.

Which is baffling because the nuclear war that ended the world was, in game, 200 years prior to the events of Fallout New Vegas. Im not saying that the world should be perfectly hunky dory or whatever, just, you know within 150 years of the black death in Europe they discovered the new world.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Barudak posted:

Which is baffling because the nuclear war that ended the world was, in game, 200 years prior to the events of Fallout New Vegas. Im not saying that the world should be perfectly hunky dory or whatever, just, you know within 150 years of the black death in Europe they discovered the new world.

Fallout is an unintended comedy about how little nerds think about anything that isn't nostalgia or action sets.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



The best post-apocalyptic settings are the ones where the entire world has moved on from just being depressed about the old world dying anyways, because in the real-world that's what would happen. Time marches on, and all the survivors have things to do to keep survivin'. Reign of Fire is an alright example; Nausicaa is a fantastic one.

The Crypt of Shuwa seems like a more realistic take on how a long plan to restore humanity would go compared to Asimov's Foundation.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




SlothfulCobra posted:

The best post-apocalyptic settings are the ones where the entire world has moved on from just being depressed about the old world dying anyways, because in the real-world that's what would happen. Time marches on, and all the survivors have things to do to keep survivin'. Reign of Fire is an alright example; Nausicaa is a fantastic one.

The Crypt of Shuwa seems like a more realistic take on how a long plan to restore humanity would go compared to Asimov's Foundation.

I read Prince of Thorns a few years ago and I'd say it qualifies as a pretty cool setting that is well articulated and pulls off a good balance of "people think about the pre-apocalypse but they've also developed a society with art and philosophy since then that isn't 100% backwards looking." Unfortunately I'd also say the book is just not good as a book.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




SlothfulCobra posted:

The best post-apocalyptic settings are the ones where the entire world has moved on from just being depressed about the old world dying anyways, because in the real-world that's what would happen. Time marches on, and all the survivors have things to do to keep survivin'. Reign of Fire is an alright example; Nausicaa is a fantastic one.

The Crypt of Shuwa seems like a more realistic take on how a long plan to restore humanity would go compared to Asimov's Foundation.

Fallout has some odd takes on that, Old World Blues is supposedly about that, though most folks like Ghouls and robots who do remember the old world aren't too broken up about it mostly because it was a fascist nightmare where nuclear war was considered inevitable and the government openly had no interest in averting it.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




And just in case you thought those assholes got killed in the war, they made the GECK so you can set up your own little slave kingdom after the bombs drop. So there's no getting away from them.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



The original GECK was just a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, how-to books, and a lil' reactor to help with power generation. Kinda just a piddly tool, but better than nothing.

Fallout 3 made it different, and was kinda unclear on how it worked, but activating it automatically kills the user in the wave of rejuvenating energy. Your dad has you fetch one so he can disassemble it for his big dumb water filtration machine that he later kills himself to prevent the enclave from using to filtrate water.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


My favorite thing that New Vegas added was that America and likely the rest of the world was five minutes from post-scarcity and resources not mattering anymore, then nuked everything to pieces before the magic hard light holograms, infinitely recycling replicators, eternally energy maintaining super-metals, and fully automatic medtechs could roll out. And that's just at one guy's casino.

gently caress the gold, drag one of those vending machines out of the casino and reverse engineer it

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Iím afraid thatís going to turn out to be extremely prophetic. :( Not that I expect unlimited technological post-scarcity any time soon but it really does seem as if we might burn through our biosphere right before we make it to the discoveries that couldíve saved us.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




RBA Starblade posted:

My favorite thing that New Vegas added was that America and likely the rest of the world was five minutes from post-scarcity and resources not mattering anymore, then nuked everything to pieces before the magic hard light holograms, infinitely recycling replicators, eternally energy maintaining super-metals, and fully automatic medtechs could roll out. And that's just at one guy's casino.

gently caress the gold, drag one of those vending machines out of the casino and reverse engineer it

That's literally the villain's whole plan IIRC, but he wants into the vault because it supposedly has all the data to control it.

I think it's a deliberate theme that despite the Great War being nominally over the last remaining oil supplies, the USA had developed nuclear substitutes to pretty much everything by then. Also that everything was hoarded by a bunch of mad scientists on government payroll more interested in new and creative war crimes than anything else, there being a theme that Dr Mobius is literally the only one who actually plans ahead and tries to deal with the reality of the post-apocalypse.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




SlothfulCobra posted:

The original GECK was just a bunch of seeds, fertilizer, how-to books, and a lil' reactor to help with power generation. Kinda just a piddly tool, but better than nothing.

Still enough for Vault City to make a slave state, though

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



Nuclear cars is on-brand for Fallout since all the physics is supposed to be what pop culture in the 1950s thought the future would be like

i.e.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.



SlothfulCobra posted:

The best post-apocalyptic settings are the ones where the entire world has moved on from just being depressed about the old world dying anyways, because in the real-world that's what would happen. Time marches on, and all the survivors have things to do to keep survivin'. Reign of Fire is an alright example; Nausicaa is a fantastic one.

Station Eleven is a good example of this. 25 years after a deadly global pandemic, one of the main characters is a member of a travelling band/Shakespeare company that also act as slow-motion messengers because it turns out people still want entertainment and news from other places. It's still pretty dangerous moving between settlements, but there's a sense that things are slowly changing for the better.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine


SlothfulCobra posted:

The best post-apocalyptic settings are the ones where the entire world has moved on from just being depressed about the old world dying anyways, because in the real-world that's what would happen. Time marches on, and all the survivors have things to do to keep survivin'. Reign of Fire is an alright example; Nausicaa is a fantastic one.

The Crypt of Shuwa seems like a more realistic take on how a long plan to restore humanity would go compared to Asimov's Foundation.

I like the idea of this but it seems to lead to a conclusion that Canticle for Leibowitz is not both the best post-apoc novel and one of the best scifi novels?

Never accept a theory that contradicts empirical evidence?

:shrug:

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



Jemesinís Broken Earth trilogy also does post-apocalyptic recovery right. People have adapted to the new reality and life goes on.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:


Defiance Industries posted:

The NCR is pretty explicitly an Old West-level society that has some scavenged high tech gear they can maintain, but not reproduce. But that's Obsidian, who actually get the series.
I meant not just in technology, but also the environment. Any Fallout game taking place east of the Mississippi should basically just be in a forest.

General Battuta posted:

Iím afraid thatís going to turn out to be extremely prophetic. :( Not that I expect unlimited technological post-scarcity any time soon but it really does seem as if we might burn through our biosphere right before we make it to the discoveries that couldíve saved us.
We already have. The problem isn't technological, it's ideological.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



The most hellish postapocalyptic world I've seen is the one where out of sheer coincidence the only thing that survived in the city was the headquarters of a life insurance company, where the survivors of the apocalypse took shelter and eventually built their new society using what they could find in the building, like training videos.

It's a dark comedy podcast.

http://www.ourfaircity.com/

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Defiance Industries posted:

Still enough for Vault City to make a slave state, though

Yeah, but the point is you could just as easily build a decent, functioning state with it. Vault City is lovely because the people who run Vault City are lovely, not because the GECK has magical fascism powers; it's literally just some basic supplies to produce food and power with in 2.

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Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Vault City is lovely because the point of the GECK was to ensure the terrible pre-war society would be able to reassert itself, by force if necessary.

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